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Originally Posted By fla556guy:
This is a tag because this is relevant to my interests. *nodding* Let me know if I can be of service. |
"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
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Originally Posted By TheGrayMan: Originally Posted By fla556guy: This is a tag because this is relevant to my interests. *nodding* Let me know if I can be of service. Just make sure you actually follow TGM's advice. Not doing so will surely result in disappointment.  |
...I do understand that it is the profession that all others are expert save the people actually embroiled in it.
-Natty_Bumppo
-Natty_Bumppo
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As an aside, one of my cameras was witness to a heinous killing two days ago.
The scene of the crime: 
The perp: 
A Cooper's Hawk ambushed a mockingbird, and sat right there in my yard and devoured the son-of-a-gun with frightening speed. Had the whole thing down to a pile of feathers in literally a couple of minutes. |
"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
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(Cross-posted from Safes-and-Home-Security forum)
Here's another example of slaving a sensor to a camera for more accurate alerts. I was using a Vivotek camera in my garage, but elected to go with a camera with WDR (wide dynamic range) for a slightly better picture. The location in question is a really nasty lighting challenge for the average camera... dark garage, looking out into the bright sunlight. It's going to tend to overexpose the picture, and render the darker areas completely opaque. Here is the old camera. Nothing wrong with it, just wanted something a little different: 
Here's its replacement... an Acti 7411 (megapixel dome with WDR): 
While we were changing out the camera, I decided to integrate a sensor with the camera, and configure it to email alerts to my phone. I cannibalized a sensor from a gate that I'd previously alarmed (before my youngest child knew enough not to run into traffic). 
The sensor was detached from the VoiceAlert transmitter, mounted at the top of the garage door, and wired into the Acti camera thusly: 
Here are the two pictures from the Vivotek and Acti cameras, respectively... note how much more visible the dark areas are in the second picture. The first picture is higher-res (2MP vs 1.3MP), but the WDR shows much more detail in the shadowed areas in the second picture (most visible in the right-lower corner) 
Now, when the garage door is opened, I get a series of images sent to my cell phone: 
You can literally use any sensor with these types of cameras. This particular case was a standard, run-of-the-mill magnetic reed switch (larger, and designed for garage doors, but otherwise identical to the reed switches/contacts your home alarm uses at most doors/windows). This sensor doesn't require power, and only requires two wires to attach to the camera. Make your cameras smarter, and your alerts worth paying attention to. 
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"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
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Wow man that is freaking awesome! I can really tell a huge difference between your high-end cameras and my cheaper bullet ones I have out back. I'm working toward a better solution for my west camera, which is my primary entry point by vehicle. My alerts are probably 80% real ones, but the quality of the image at that range isn't what the camera was intended for. Here is my wife leaving for work. (excuse the messy farm truck, spring is a busy time)  Her coming home last night:  But at night, I get really bad washout from the street lamp (which I pay to keep on, ironically because I'm mostly alone out here)  Here is my el-cheapo bullet example:  |
...I do understand that it is the profession that all others are expert save the people actually embroiled in it.
-Natty_Bumppo
-Natty_Bumppo
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Allow me to offer a couple of thoughts on those particular camera views.
This one is a good overview shot... be a good place for a higher-res camera... but I might pan that view to the left a bit, since I assume your front door is around the left side of that picture... and maybe down just a hair. You will want to see that driveway approach, but I'd probably recommend a little more parking area, and a little less yard/trees: 
ETA: If you put a higher-res camera up there, you could move the cheaper bullet-cam down to eye-or-chest-level, and put it next to the garage-door. It's a cheapo. so who cares if they smash it? If you get a good picture, it's served its purpose, and you can replace it for $25. That way you'd get a face-shot of any driver, or vehicle coming up to your home. You might even get a plate-shot if they back their truck up to empty your garage of your possessions. Night shots are what really tell the story. This one could use just a bit more light, either visible or IR. I assume this is a camera mounted higher up on a wall, so I'd put an IR source (or motion floodlight) down and to the left on that wall. It looks like a garage area down there, which is a popular location for theft, entry into the house, or ambush. A light source down there would also help ameliorate some of the backlighting you're getting from that streetlight over yonder. 
Here you can really see the effect of that streetlight. If you want to be covert, I'd get one of these off Ebay. I probably have ten of those deployed, and have only had one failure... can't beat them for the money. Without sufficient light, you get all sorts of digital noise in the picture, and you get that blocky/pixellated appearance to your video. 
I'd probably do a slight adjustment on the view of this one as well. I'd toe that view out a bit (looks like a woodpile right there) so you get a bit more yard and a little less wall. Nobody is going to climb over that woodpile in the dark; too noisy. They'll walk around it, and the same thing will happen during the day. If you push that view a bit to the left, you could also put an IR illuminator on that wall (either close, which is the large circle, or farther down, which is the small circle) and improve your night performance. One thing you don't want is for your actual illuminator itself to be in the field-of-view, because it will wash out the image. You want the LIGHT from the illuminator, but NOT the illuminator itself. Moving that view to the left a pinch would prevent that from being an issue. 
Just a few suggestions.
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"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
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Originally Posted By TheGrayMan: Awesome!!!Just a few suggestions. I've been tossing around the idea of getting some IR illumination to boost the performance of these cameras. I'm convinced now! I will move those camera angles this weekend, and post up another pic. You are the man!!!  |
...I do understand that it is the profession that all others are expert save the people actually embroiled in it.
-Natty_Bumppo
-Natty_Bumppo
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first off thanks for all your info, this is alot of work for you.
now I do have a few questions. I have a two story house and when it was built I ran 5 Siamese wires to where I thought I would need them.A few can not be replaced due to being run where there are concrete headers. I left a chase from the attic to the basement where there are 3 On Q panels. so I can run new wire if need be I have 2 cat 5 and 2 rg6 to every room in the house as a home run from the basement On Q panels so my questions. 1. I would like to use the five pre placed Siamese wires so what 700+ line analog camera would you recommend. I will use separate IR illumination. 2. I was going to use a hybrid dvr so that any new cameras would be mega pixel. or should I stay with all analog? 3. as for the IR illumination, are they photoelectric operated or do you need to switch them on and off manually. If manual how would you set it up to go on and off by themselves. 4. I want to keep the dvr in the basement in the secure room and have monitors thruout the house, as stated I have cat 5 and rg6 in each room. what is the output from the dvrs to give the best picture? would I need a modulator to run thru the rg6 and then use a monitor with a tv or is there a way to have hidef monitor thru either of these lines?Thanks for the help. |
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Originally Posted By Quigley:
first off thanks for all your info, this is alot of work for you. now I do have a few questions. I have a two story house and when it was built I ran 5 Siamese wires to where I thought I would need them.A few can not be replaced due to being run where there are concrete headers. I left a chase from the attic to the basement where there are 3 On Q panels. so I can run new wire if need be I have 2 cat 5 and 2 rg6 to every room in the house as a home run from the basement On Q panels so my questions. 1. I would like to use the five pre placed Siamese wires so what 700+ line analog camera would you recommend. I will use separate IR illumination. 2. I was going to use a hybrid dvr so that any new cameras would be mega pixel. or should I stay with all analog? 3. as for the IR illumination, are they photoelectric operated or do you need to switch them on and off manually. If manual how would you set it up to go on and off by themselves. 4. I want to keep the dvr in the basement in the secure room and have monitors thruout the house, as stated I have cat 5 and rg6 in each room. what is the output from the dvrs to give the best picture? would I need a modulator to run thru the rg6 and then use a monitor with a tv or is there a way to have hidef monitor thru either of these lines?Thanks for the help. Taking them in order: 1. Depending on your budget, Panansonic, or CNB 2. I'd build a full-digital PC-based NVR, and not worry about any analog cards. If you must have analog, attach the analog cams to an analog camera server (Axis 241Q or similar), and send the digital data stream back to your NVR over the network. You're going to want Megapixel in some areas, particularly once you see the quality difference... so do NOT lock yourself into analog. Give yourself upgrade room. 3. Most IR illuminators have a built-in photocell. They turn themselves off during the day. 4. There are several ways to get those image streams to other places in the house. You clearly went fat on extra wiring when you built, so you're all set. If you only want those image streams in certain locations (master bedroom, kitchen, etc), you can distribute the analog camera output from your DVR in the basement via Cat5. Star Tech has a whole line of video-over-UTP extenders. They use an encoder in the basement to send the video over your cat5 cable, and a decoder at the distal end to turn it back into a VGA/DVI/HDMI signal... and you just plug it into your TV. Then, getting your camera feeds is as simple as hitting the "source" or "input" button on your remote. Problem is, that setup can run you several hundred dollars per... However, there's a cheaper/easier way, particularly if you have an Ipad or Android Tablet, and wifi in your house. All of my cameras are either IP cams, or analog-on-camera-servers... and using a program called "IP Cam Viewer" (about $3 on the app store, and well worth it), I can get all of my camera streams on my Droid phone, my Android tablet, or my wife's Ipad... and it's totally portable. So if I have anybody wandering around outside (or inside), I can use my tablet to watch where they're going, and maneuver on them to a position of advantage, if necessary. That beats being fixed in place, and unable to take those image streams with you. ETA: here's IP Cam Viewer on my Android tablet (circled in red), and a 16-camera tiled view of the video streams (pixelated for opsec): 
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"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
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Originally Posted By TheGrayMan: so do NOT lock yourself into analog. Give yourself upgrade room. If you don't listen to anything else, heed this warning!!! trust me! |
...I do understand that it is the profession that all others are expert save the people actually embroiled in it.
-Natty_Bumppo
-Natty_Bumppo
|
Would this not work for both digital and analog inputs. http://www.nvrsystems.net/index.html
running new wires is not my problem in a lifetime ago (40 years) I worked my way thru college working for alarm companies setting up burglar alarms and if I remember Vidicon tube type cameras. been a long time. My weak spot is setting up the computer network, although not computer illeterate I am FAR from proficient. |
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Originally Posted By Quigley:
Would this not work for both digital and analog inputs. http://www.nvrsystems.net/index.html running new wires is not my problem in a lifetime ago (40 years) I worked my way thru college working for alarm companies setting up burglar alarms and if I remember Vidicon tube type cameras. been a long time. My weak spot is setting up the computer network, although not computer illeterate I am FAR from proficient. There's a lot of scaremongering on that page, particularly the "why you shouldn't buy an NVR" link. You most certainly CAN run a PoE network camera setup on your home. I've done it, and am currently doing it. I probably have 18-19MP worth of cameras on a gigabit PoE switch in my rack, and it runs the entire thing just fine... and my network isn't anywhere close to "slowing to a crawl." I also run terabyes of network backups to two separate NAS's on that same network. Now, I'm using quality hardware (and a rackmount PoE switch with 48 ports), and built my own server, but it wasn't that hard. Just make sure you use a gigabit connection to your server, and use a high-quality (I like the Intel PRO series cards) add-on gigabit network card in a PCI-E slot. A couple gigs of RAM, a quad-core processor and my NVR runs just fine. ETA: I'll put up some load graphs later |
"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
|
Here are today's CPU and network-load graphs off my Luxriot DVR. It's in a 2U rack-mount case, with a Micro-ATX motherboard (an ASUS, IIRC) It has a single quad-core processor, with 2GB of RAM, and four 1.5TB Seagate hard drives. All the drives are SATA, and the network interface is an Intel PRO/1000 in a PCI-E slot. It's currently gathering and recording 16 streams, all but three of them megapixel IP cams (some of them are multi-megapixel).
Network: 
CPU: 
In those graphs, it's gathering all 16 video streams, recording them, doing motion-detection, displaying those 16 streams to a local client, and serving those same streams to a single remote network client. It's not even breaking a sweat. |
"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
|
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:
Wow... And that is why I'm gearing up to convert my streams over to IP. I want that flexibility. That's the nice thing about Luxriot (compared to Milestone Essential, which would be the other budget choice). You can add/delete/change cameras at will, and as long as you don't go over your number of channels, you're fine. Luxriot keeps track of camera changes... and in my 16-channel system, I've done about 40+ camera changes. 
Yeah... I know... but I'm a tinkerer... and trial-and-error is a great way to learn. In a Milestone system, I'd have been allowed to do TWO camera changes before the software would have stopped me (and I don't know if I would be allowed to make any more... might have been forced to buy more channels). |
"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
|
few more questions Grayman,
I am a bit confused (easy to be) with a megapixel camera you get much clearer image than with regular analog,even with 700 line resolution. ok got that. but my question is this. is this advantage only on the recording side? by this I mean how does the increase in image effect viewing? looking at some DVR's (apexcctv.com) for example, they have two outputs, RCA and VGA. If I want to view images in a room other than where the cpu is, I would use the RCA output then RG6 to the tv/monitor, is this correct. if so, do I loose the image quality that I paid for in the megapixel cameras? I hope I am being clear. |
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Originally Posted By Quigley:
few more questions Grayman, I am a bit confused (easy to be) with a megapixel camera you get much clearer image than with regular analog,even with 700 line resolution. ok got that. but my question is this. is this advantage only on the recording side? by this I mean how does the increase in image effect viewing? looking at some DVR's (apexcctv.com) for example, they have two outputs, RCA and VGA. If I want to view images in a room other than where the cpu is, I would use the RCA output then RG6 to the tv/monitor, is this correct. if so, do I loose the image quality that I paid for in the megapixel cameras? I hope I am being clear. The VGA output will give you a better monitor picture... but if it's still an analog NTSC signal going into it, it will only look analog. It's like looking at an analog signal on an HDTV... you'll get a picture, but it won't look HD. By the same token, you can put an HDTV signal into an older analog tube-TV... and it's still going to look like an analog picture, because the analog set can't display HD. ETA: rewritten to make more sense. To get the best picture, it has to be megapixel from the camera, to the DVR, to the display. Putting something analog in there is going to cheat your system of its potential. |
"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
|
Originally Posted By NotDeaf:
OH GREAT GRAYMAN… I’m not worthily So, here’s my setup.. If you don’t mind, could you tell me when I need an IR flood light? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/NotDeaf/Capture1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/NotDeaf/Capture2.jpg Those are bullet-cams with integrated IR LEDs, right? I'd pair an illuminator or floodlight to every one of those cameras. |
"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
|
I installed a fifth camera today. This thing, even over analog is AMAZING quality compared to what I had before. (Nevermind that it retails for 4x that of my best camera) Pics to come later this week, when I get my phone back (she died). Installed and anchored into brick. |
...I do understand that it is the profession that all others are expert save the people actually embroiled in it.
-Natty_Bumppo
-Natty_Bumppo
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Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By NotDeaf:
OH GREAT GRAYMAN… I’m not worthily So, here’s my setup.. If you don’t mind, could you tell me when I need an IR flood light? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/NotDeaf/Capture1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/NotDeaf/Capture2.jpg Those are bullet-cams with integrated IR LEDs, right? I'd pair an illuminator or floodlight to every one of those cameras. Yep, they are bullet-cams with integrated IR LEDs Any advice on which illuminator or floodlight to get? |
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson
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My latest install. I really love this camera.  Here is someone walking up to the garage door.  A different angle: (and a cheaper camera)  |
...I do understand that it is the profession that all others are expert save the people actually embroiled in it.
-Natty_Bumppo
-Natty_Bumppo
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Originally Posted By bcauz3y:
My latest install. I really love this camera. https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rxSeB7Nello/T6xVjrW5OUI/AAAAAAAAKY8/yKP27-Zw9kg/s640/photo.jpg Here is someone walking up to the garage door. https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_fJ_9JZcb6Y/T6xSfG1fpBI/AAAAAAAAKYs/GqChW2zEXXc/s352/ch05.jpg A different angle: (and a cheaper camera) https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FmnnAiECevU/T6rPI_FdBWI/AAAAAAAAKYI/Q3QEqo9mFMM/s352/ch02.jpg Post a megapixel screen-grab  (beware... ARFCOM will automatically resize it to 800x600)
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"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
|
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan: Originally Posted By bcauz3y: My latest install. I really love this camera. https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rxSeB7Nello/T6xVjrW5OUI/AAAAAAAAKY8/yKP27-Zw9kg/s640/photo.jpg Here is someone walking up to the garage door. https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_fJ_9JZcb6Y/T6xSfG1fpBI/AAAAAAAAKYs/GqChW2zEXXc/s352/ch05.jpg A different angle: (and a cheaper camera) https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FmnnAiECevU/T6rPI_FdBWI/AAAAAAAAKYI/Q3QEqo9mFMM/s352/ch02.jpg Post a megapixel screen-grab (beware... ARFCOM will automatically resize it to 800x600)I would, but I'd have to black my face out.  It's freaking amazing! |
...I do understand that it is the profession that all others are expert save the people actually embroiled in it.
-Natty_Bumppo
-Natty_Bumppo
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Originally Posted By NotDeaf:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By NotDeaf:
OH GREAT GRAYMAN… I’m not worthily So, here’s my setup.. If you don’t mind, could you tell me when I need an IR flood light? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/NotDeaf/Capture1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/NotDeaf/Capture2.jpg Those are bullet-cams with integrated IR LEDs, right? I'd pair an illuminator or floodlight to every one of those cameras. Yep, they are bullet-cams with integrated IR LEDs Any advice on which illuminator or floodlight to get? Visible floodlights are whatever looks good on your house... white... black... motion-sensitive... whatever you want. IR is a little different, and a bit more expensive. I usually advise people to go with visible light, but if you want it to be covert (or your HOA restricts floodlights, as mine does...  ), you can use infrared illuminators.
I've had good luck with these, but it looks like they're no longer available. I'm searching Ebay right now, but not finding much... that sucks.
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"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
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This is what I plan to use. http://www.amazon.com/CMVision-IR100-Outdoor-200-300ft-Illuminator/dp/B001BC52W2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1336698500&sr=8-2  Reasonable price, and uses the save voltage and amperage as my cameras, which means I can use the same power cable (minus the coax) to run to the power supply (included). I don't know how good they work, but these are what I have ordered. They certainly aren't pretty, but I live in the dang boondocks anyway.  |
...I do understand that it is the profession that all others are expert save the people actually embroiled in it.
-Natty_Bumppo
-Natty_Bumppo
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Originally Posted By bcauz3y:
This is what I plan to use. http://www.amazon.com/CMVision-IR100-Outdoor-200-300ft-Illuminator/dp/B001BC52W2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1336698500&sr=8-2 http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41f2AWVzytL.jpg Reasonable price, and uses the save voltage and amperage as my cameras, which means I can use the same power cable (minus the coax) to run to the power supply (included). I don't know how good they work, but these are what I have ordered. They certainly aren't pretty, but I live in the dang boondocks anyway.
I wouldn't do that... seriously. The IR angle isn't wide enough. Think of it this way. You're in a dark theatre... and a spotlight comes on to illuminate the performer... but the rest of the stage and theatre is dark. That's what you'll get with something like that. Now compare that to the view in the theatre when they bring up the "house lights." It's much more even, and you can see to get to the end of the row, and up the aisle to the exit. That's what a wide-angle IR illuminator will do for you... it's "area lighting" if you want to think of it that way. I think you're going to be disappointed with those illuminators. Can you cancel your order? ETA: there are two "wide-angle IR illuminators" on Amazon that would work better. Look for "CA60-IL04 360 Degree Dome Infrared Illuminator for CCTV Camera" or "CMVision Wide Angle IRD50 - 42 LED 12VDC 160degree IR Dome Illuminator" |
"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
|
Here's an Ehow that agrees with me
Seriously... think of it as area-lighting for a room, as compared to a single track-light spotlight for a specific painting on the wall. The latter will highlight that specific area in a dark room for dramatic contrast/effect... but you're trying to illuminate an AREA... so wide-angle is better. |
"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
|
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan: Here's an Ehow that agrees with me Seriously... think of it as area-lighting for a room, as compared to a single track-light spotlight for a specific painting on the wall. The latter will highlight that specific area in a dark room for dramatic contrast/effect... but you're trying to illuminate an AREA... so wide-angle is better. Absolutely, the wider the angle the better in my case. The trouble I have is that I have a massive area that I want to cover. (hence the two cameras covering the same area) From a security perspective, that (west) side of the house is my weakest link. (although I did install a rolling steel door on the entrance this weekend) The other sides of the house are fenced in with dogs protecting them. |
...I do understand that it is the profession that all others are expert save the people actually embroiled in it.
-Natty_Bumppo
-Natty_Bumppo
|
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Here's an Ehow that agrees with me
Seriously... think of it as area-lighting for a room, as compared to a single track-light spotlight for a specific painting on the wall. The latter will highlight that specific area in a dark room for dramatic contrast/effect... but you're trying to illuminate an AREA... so wide-angle is better. Absolutely, the wider the angle the better in my case. The trouble I have is that I have a massive area that I want to cover. (hence the two cameras covering the same area) From a security perspective, that (west) side of the house is my weakest link. (although I did install a rolling steel door on the entrance this weekend) The other sides of the house are fenced in with dogs protecting them. I'd put a nice wide-angle illuminator above that right-handed garage door (right-handed as if you're standing in the driveway, looking at that camera). I'd put it there because with the view you've chosen, the built-in IR from that camera will tend to throw its pool-of-light towards the approach to the other garage door. And honestly? You can always add more light. Don't feel like you're limited to a single illuminator... I have several sides of my house that have more than one. |
"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
|
OK. So everyone following this thread will recall my section on adding external sensors to your cameras.
Link to stand-alone thread They're generally superior to video-motion-detection in every way... but even high-quality sensors can get fooled. I'm about to show you how/why that can happen. Recall the Crow sensors I've been using. Crow makes very high-end detectors. The company is Israeli, and you know the Israelis always make good stuff.
Anyway, adding the dual-element PIR to my camera GREATLY cut down on my false alerts. In fact, I wasn't getting any false alerts at all... and then the weather started to warm up. There was a definite pattern to it. The false alerts would start in the afternoon, usually about 1-2PM, and I'd get one every so often, with nobody in the images that were arriving. I was puzzled. And then I looked at the scene again: 
Yep. Right there. The warm air currents from that AC unit were just enough to trigger the occasional false alert on warm days... even with the detector sensitivity turned all the way down. Screw that. I want my alerts to be meaningful. So I went with a slightly different model... Crow's EDS-3000. This little bugger actually includes a quad PIR, and a K-band microwave radar element inside. The entire sensor assembly rotates through almost 180 degrees inside the housing, enabling the sensor to be flat-mounted to a wall, and the sensor array turned either direction. 
I went with the same mounting location, just for testing purposes (the wiring, all identical hookups to the previous Crow sensor, was already there). 
Problem was, the mounting location was too high... the regular Crow D&D dual-PIR is supposed to be mounted 7-8 feet off the ground for best results. This unit is supposed to be mounted at 4-5 feet. There was no way to do it right there. Where I'd placed it, it was scanning at fence-top height, and I was getting PIR-and-radar hits on feral cats at night... like this little bugger 
So I went back to plan "A." I took the original D&D PIR sensor and mounted it further down the wall, away from that AC unit. I also used a shallow outlet box to wall-mount it, and some conduit to run the wiring up to the attic. 
The electronic board of that D&D sensor is easily removable: 
And here it is mounted: 
I walk-tested it, and there's no sneaking past that thing... no matter how slow you walk, and no matter how low you try to get. I'll update the forum on any further false-alarm problems as the weather warms up. |
"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
|
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
D-D says for the 3000, "Up to 55 kg (110 Lbs) Pet immunity" Your cats must be as big as ours!
I think the problem was where I had mounted it... it was right at fence-top height. |
"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
|
G-M, have you experimented with cameras with a built in SD card.
Specifically, can you access the card remotely and read/download the card and view what was on it easily? For example, if you set the cam to be triggered by say an IR sensor and store a series of pix on the SD card, BUT you don't have a continuously running server––- and you wanted to access what was on the SD card, can you log onto the cam and easily view pix stored on the card hours after the event? |
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Originally Posted By EXPY37:
G-M, have you experimented with cameras with a built in SD card. Specifically, can you access the card remotely and read/download the card and view what was on it easily? For example, if you set the cam to be triggered by say an IR sensor and store a series of pix on the SD card, BUT you don't have a continuously running server––- and you wanted to access what was on the SD card, can you log onto the cam and easily view pix stored on the card hours after the event? Sure... the Mobotix cameras do that. The Acti cams with that same feature haven't "enabled" it yet... that's supposed to be in future firmware revisions. Personally, that pisses me off. Don't advertise that your camera has an SD-card slot for local storage, and then not enable the feature... that's vapor-ware BS. |
"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
|
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan: You and me both.Originally Posted By EXPY37: G-M, have you experimented with cameras with a built in SD card. Specifically, can you access the card remotely and read/download the card and view what was on it easily? For example, if you set the cam to be triggered by say an IR sensor and store a series of pix on the SD card, BUT you don't have a continuously running server––- and you wanted to access what was on the SD card, can you log onto the cam and easily view pix stored on the card hours after the event? Sure... the Mobotix cameras do that. The Acti cams with that same feature haven't "enabled" it yet... that's supposed to be in future firmware revisions. Personally, that pisses me off. Don't advertise that your camera has an SD-card slot for local storage, and then not enable the feature... that's vapor-ware BS. |
...I do understand that it is the profession that all others are expert save the people actually embroiled in it.
-Natty_Bumppo
-Natty_Bumppo
|
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
You and me both.
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
G-M, have you experimented with cameras with a built in SD card. Specifically, can you access the card remotely and read/download the card and view what was on it easily? For example, if you set the cam to be triggered by say an IR sensor and store a series of pix on the SD card, BUT you don't have a continuously running server––- and you wanted to access what was on the SD card, can you log onto the cam and easily view pix stored on the card hours after the event? Sure... the Mobotix cameras do that. The Acti cams with that same feature haven't "enabled" it yet... that's supposed to be in future firmware revisions. Personally, that pisses me off. Don't advertise that your camera has an SD-card slot for local storage, and then not enable the feature... that's vapor-ware BS. The other thing that gets me is when they half-ass the implementation. I remember one Panasonic camera a couple of years ago... it had an internal SD card for storage, back when that feature was virtually absent from anything short of Mobotix-level stuff. Once I started using it, I found the "catch." It stored to the SD card alright... oh yeah... at a whole whopping 1 FPS. 
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"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
|
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
You and me both.
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
G-M, have you experimented with cameras with a built in SD card. Specifically, can you access the card remotely and read/download the card and view what was on it easily? For example, if you set the cam to be triggered by say an IR sensor and store a series of pix on the SD card, BUT you don't have a continuously running server––- and you wanted to access what was on the SD card, can you log onto the cam and easily view pix stored on the card hours after the event? Sure... the Mobotix cameras do that. The Acti cams with that same feature haven't "enabled" it yet... that's supposed to be in future firmware revisions. Personally, that pisses me off. Don't advertise that your camera has an SD-card slot for local storage, and then not enable the feature... that's vapor-ware BS. The other thing that gets me is when they half-ass the implementation. I remember one Panasonic camera a couple of years ago... it had an internal SD card for storage, back when that feature was virtually absent from anything short of Mobotix-level stuff. Once I started using it, I found the "catch." It stored to the SD card alright... oh yeah... at a whole whopping 1 FPS. Thanks G-M. One more question. I'm experimenting with an Axis 2 megapix cam with optical zoom to 10 X. The manual says accessory lenses can be added to the 37 mm thread. I have some old cheap vidcam telephoto lenses that screw right on and the magnify the image as spec'd X 3. However, there is color aberation and altho there is a very modest improvement in what can be resolved at a distance, the image is still sort of fuzzy at higher magnification. So I held an 18X Canon stabilized binoc up to the lens and focused it on my test subject and OMG it was crystal clear with -extreme- detail. Amazing. Any idea what kind of lens that won't break the bank would I look for as a [adj f] telephoto to add to the 2 MP cam 37 mm front? Oh, the existing lens is all internal and not swappable. |
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Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
You and me both.
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
G-M, have you experimented with cameras with a built in SD card. Specifically, can you access the card remotely and read/download the card and view what was on it easily? For example, if you set the cam to be triggered by say an IR sensor and store a series of pix on the SD card, BUT you don't have a continuously running server––- and you wanted to access what was on the SD card, can you log onto the cam and easily view pix stored on the card hours after the event? Sure... the Mobotix cameras do that. The Acti cams with that same feature haven't "enabled" it yet... that's supposed to be in future firmware revisions. Personally, that pisses me off. Don't advertise that your camera has an SD-card slot for local storage, and then not enable the feature... that's vapor-ware BS. The other thing that gets me is when they half-ass the implementation. I remember one Panasonic camera a couple of years ago... it had an internal SD card for storage, back when that feature was virtually absent from anything short of Mobotix-level stuff. Once I started using it, I found the "catch." It stored to the SD card alright... oh yeah... at a whole whopping 1 FPS. Thanks G-M. One more question. I'm experimenting with an Axis 2 megapix cam with optical zoom to 10 X. The manual says accessory lenses can be added to the 37 mm thread. I have some old cheap vidcam telephoto lenses that screw right on and the magnify the image as spec'd X 3. However, there is color aberation and altho there is a very modest improvement in what can be resolved at a distance, the image is still sort of fuzzy at higher magnification. So I held an 18X Canon stabilized binoc up to the lens and focused it on my test subject and OMG it was crystal clear with -extreme- detail. Amazing. Any idea what kind of lens that won't break the bank would I look for as a [adj f] telephoto to add to the 2 MP cam 37 mm front? Oh, the existing lens is all internal and not swappable. I have no idea on that one... but good glass tends to be expensive. Short of getting something second-hand, I don't know were to tell you for something like that cheap. |
"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
|
TGM
Sorry if you already addressed this somewhere (its a long read).... What is your recommendation for renters? I rent a house. I need something as non-permanent as possible (wireless?). I want to get decent hardware that I can take with me when I move into my own house and build out a more complete system. |
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Originally Posted By fluwoebers:
TGM Sorry if you already addressed this somewhere (its a long read).... What is your recommendation for renters? I rent a house. I need something as non-permanent as possible (wireless?). I want to get decent hardware that I can take with me when I move into my own house and build out a more complete system. You could put a couple of the Axis wireless cameras on your access point... but I'd only do two if you plan on using that AP for other things. The video quality is pretty good, and they are actual full-featured cameras (some come with built-in passive-infrared sensors). I have one, and it's really nice. |
"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
| Based on what I've been reading, it looks like you have been using these 2 brands for cameras.. Axis and Acti. Are these two brands GTG for their whole product line for cameras or would you (as a example) just recommend Axis for their wireless and Acti for their wired cameras? |
illegitimi non carborundum, post proelia praemia
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Originally Posted By Ryo:
Based on what I've been reading, it looks like you have been using these 2 brands for cameras.. Axis and Acti. Are these two brands GTG for their whole product line for cameras or would you (as a example) just recommend Axis for their wireless and Acti for their wired cameras? I like both of those manufactures.... and I also like Mobotix, though they're out of the price range of most people. |
"How can you know so little about this and be occupying a chair at the time that you do?"
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
-Christopher Hitchens to Ron Reagan Jr. on the topic of terrorism-
|
I just replaced my 4 camera unit with a 16 camera unit.
I am not to the point of building a system or spending more money on higher quality cameras, but this system will be good for a while. I now have 12 cameras and I already need a few more. |
Mach
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves.”
William Pitt, 1783:
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves.”
William Pitt, 1783:
|
Originally Posted By Mach: I just replaced my 4 camera unit with a 16 camera unit. I am not to the point of building a system or spending more money on higher quality cameras, but this system will be good for a while. I now have 12 cameras and I already need a few more. Pics/specs? My newest addition:  This is my first IP only camera. I have another analog/IP camera and 4 analog cameras. I'm going to build a server this weekend if I have time to run the two IP cameras until I can fully migrate over. Mach, if you are running and out of the box DVR with video motion detection, you MUST be getting a shitton of false alerts. I know I am. Everytime a bug farts, my cameras go off, on the lowest sensitivity setting. |
...I do understand that it is the profession that all others are expert save the people actually embroiled in it.
-Natty_Bumppo
-Natty_Bumppo
|
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:
Originally Posted By Mach:
I just replaced my 4 camera unit with a 16 camera unit. I am not to the point of building a system or spending more money on higher quality cameras, but this system will be good for a while. I now have 12 cameras and I already need a few more. Pics/specs? My newest addition: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-S8RYzgTEKJ8/T7b_8oJQ-CI/AAAAAAAAKeM/BJns3HR6QWQ/s512/photo.jpg This is my first IP only camera. I have another analog/IP camera and 4 analog cameras. I'm going to build a server this weekend if I have time to run the two IP cameras until I can fully migrate over. Mach, if you are running and out of the box DVR with video motion detection, you MUST be getting a shitton of false alerts. I know I am. Everytime a bug farts, my cameras go off, on the lowest sensitivity setting. I am getting a bunch of false alerts. WithmMy old 4 camera system was able to specify how many adjacent boxes were needed to see movement and it worked very well except for very windy days and clouds / light changes. This new system does not have that capability, just sensitivety. I still can't keep the dam spiders away from the IR cameras. I really need to disable the IR LEDS and get separate illuminators. I am not using the system to alert me, just record so I can go back and see what happened or which way to point the muzzle in the middle of the night. |
Mach
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves.”
William Pitt, 1783:
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves.”
William Pitt, 1783:
|
It is a cheap CIF camera analog 16 channel system. Nothing fancy.
I didn't buy it to ID faces or plates, more of a situational awareness system and to be able to check on the house when I am not home. I like being able to view the cameras on an Ipod and Ipad. I don't have the other cameras installed yet, still figuring out where I will put them |
Mach
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves.”
William Pitt, 1783:
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves.”
William Pitt, 1783: