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Posted: 8/7/2017 5:54:43 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you sir let me know where to send money |
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Posted: 8/8/2017 10:41:22 PM EST
[#2]
Is anyone else having an issue with the trigger lock being torqued to the side a little on the gen 2? Is that normal? If not what could I do to fix this?
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Posted: 8/8/2017 11:13:50 PM EST
[#3]
I have a DDM4V11 and I cannot for the life of me get my upper to close. The trigger lock keeps hitting the bolt carrier by millimeters... Disappointing for sure
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Posted: 8/9/2017 12:40:23 AM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a DDM4V11 and I cannot for the life of me get my upper to close. The trigger lock keeps hitting the bolt carrier by millimeters... Disappointing for sure |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 3:00:07 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a DDM4V11 and I cannot for the life of me get my upper to close. The trigger lock keeps hitting the bolt carrier by millimeters... Disappointing for sure |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 3:25:34 PM EST
[#6]
New here, but I too was a little concerned with the pull weight in the echo. I have 2 echo triggers and took one apart. After seeing the spring weight post, I decided to take mine to a local shop and have them tested.
The disconnector springs came in at around 32.5in/lbs but the "hammer hook" (under the sear trip?) spring only came back at 88.75 in/lbs. not the 182in/lbs that was mentioned in a previous post. This trigger is fairly new (inspected 6/8) so I wonder if they have already changed the sear trip spring? Either way I found some 14 lb disconnecter springs and also a 62lb sear trip spring and will test theses out as well. |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 6:34:10 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
New here, but I too was a little concerned with the pull weight in the echo. I have 2 echo triggers and took one apart. After seeing the spring weight post, I decided to take mine to a local shop and have them tested. The disconnector springs came in at around 32.5in/lbs but the "hammer hook" (under the sear trip?) spring only came back at 88.75 in/lbs. not the 182in/lbs that was mentioned in a previous post. This trigger is fairly new (inspected 6/8) so I wonder if they have already changed the sear trip spring? Either way I found some 14 lb disconnecter springs and also a 62lb sear trip spring and will test theses out as well. I just installed the custom "hammer hook" spring that LEECO made for me. It is a 95 lb/in rate and is not available from their website. The 15 lb/in disconnector springs, coupled with the 95 lb/in "hammer hook/sear trip" spring results in a 4 3/4 lb semi-auto trigger pull weight. The Echo mode initial release is at 2 3/4 lb and the binary reset "click" (full pull) occurs at 5 3/4 lbs. The 13 lb/in disconnector springs, coupled with the 95 lb/in "hammer hook/sear trip" spring results in a 4 3/4 lb semi-auto trigger pull weight. The Echo mode initial release is at 2 1/4 lb and the binary reset "click" (full pull) occurs at 5 1/2 lbs. I left the 13 lb springs in and will try to test tomorrow and see what happens. Brotaytoechip, please let us know how the 62 lb sear trip spring works out. Did you measure the pull weight with the stock 88.75 lb/in spring? |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 8:07:25 PM EST
[#8]
brotaytoechip and ElAlto : this is excellent testing your doing and is much appreciated by myself and i'm sure most of the guys in this thread appreciate your testing also
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Posted: 8/10/2017 8:50:21 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Excellent information! It makes perfect sense that your "hammer hook" (sear trip) spring came in at 88.7 lb/in. I would be willing to bet that the 182 lb/in spring in mine was an early model. I purchased it off of Gunbroker. The stock disconnector springs in mine are 32 lb/in spring rate. I just installed the custom "hammer hook" spring that LEECO made for me. It is a 95 lb/in rate and is not available from their website. The 15 lb/in disconnector springs, coupled with the 95 lb/in "hammer hook/sear trip" spring results in a 4 3/4 lb semi-auto trigger pull weight. The Echo mode initial release is at 2 3/4 lb and the binary reset "click" (full pull) occurs at 5 3/4 lbs. The 13 lb/in disconnector springs, coupled with the 95 lb/in "hammer hook/sear trip" spring results in a 4 3/4 lb semi-auto trigger pull weight. The Echo mode initial release is at 2 1/4 lb and the binary reset "click" (full pull) occurs at 5 1/2 lbs. I left the 13 lb springs in and will try to test tomorrow and see what happens. Brotaytoechip, please let us know how the 62 lb sear trip spring works out. Did you measure the pull weight with the stock 88.75 lb/in spring? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
New here, but I too was a little concerned with the pull weight in the echo. I have 2 echo triggers and took one apart. After seeing the spring weight post, I decided to take mine to a local shop and have them tested. The disconnector springs came in at around 32.5in/lbs but the "hammer hook" (under the sear trip?) spring only came back at 88.75 in/lbs. not the 182in/lbs that was mentioned in a previous post. This trigger is fairly new (inspected 6/8) so I wonder if they have already changed the sear trip spring? Either way I found some 14 lb disconnecter springs and also a 62lb sear trip spring and will test theses out as well. I just installed the custom "hammer hook" spring that LEECO made for me. It is a 95 lb/in rate and is not available from their website. The 15 lb/in disconnector springs, coupled with the 95 lb/in "hammer hook/sear trip" spring results in a 4 3/4 lb semi-auto trigger pull weight. The Echo mode initial release is at 2 3/4 lb and the binary reset "click" (full pull) occurs at 5 3/4 lbs. The 13 lb/in disconnector springs, coupled with the 95 lb/in "hammer hook/sear trip" spring results in a 4 3/4 lb semi-auto trigger pull weight. The Echo mode initial release is at 2 1/4 lb and the binary reset "click" (full pull) occurs at 5 1/2 lbs. I left the 13 lb springs in and will try to test tomorrow and see what happens. Brotaytoechip, please let us know how the 62 lb sear trip spring works out. Did you measure the pull weight with the stock 88.75 lb/in spring? Another odd thing is the newer one (that I disassembled for this project) came with the bolt carrier and the gen 2 trigger lock (that you can use with a standard BC). I ended up finding some springs online so I had to order a bunch (about 6 different spring weights), and they will be here Mon & Tues next week. They are not exact measurements but within .005 diameter and length. If those don't work I will head back to the local spring shop and have them create some custom stuff. |
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Posted: 8/11/2017 8:11:12 AM EST
[#10]
I am beginning to think the 182# sear trip spring in mine was some kind of error on Fostech's part. Perhaps they received a supply of springs in the wrong spring rate and since you can't really tell by looking, installed them in a number of triggers that got shipped. Again, I only had one brief talk with "Pete" at Fostech and all he said was, "The only trigger pull weight that is out of spec is the Echo mode of over 12 pounds. Send it back and we will look at it."
I hope your 62# sear spring works. The 95# spring I installed brings the trigger pull down to a manageable weight, but I would prefer a semi-auto and echo mode in the 4 to 4 1/2 lb range. I don't know if we can get there without reducing the "first release" of the echo mode to a weight that is too light for the intended use of this trigger system. |
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Posted: 8/11/2017 6:11:48 PM EST
[#11]
Quick update. I had some green hiperfire toggle springs that I put in the gen 1 echo . Not much change. 4-4.5 lb semi, 4-4.5 echo 1st shot, 8.5-9lb echo reset. Nothing changed imho.
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Posted: 8/11/2017 7:26:38 PM EST
[#12]
I would have to say the test this afternoon was a success. The 95# "hammer hook/sear trip" spring coupled with the 13# disconnector springs resulted in a manageable semi-auto pull at just under 5 lbs and an Echo pull with the first release at about 2 1/4 lbs and the full pull to set the hammer for the binary release at just under 5 lbs. It was much easier to stay on target while dumping 20 and 30 round mags. "Controlled Pairs" (double taps) that sent four rounds down range were much easier to control and keep on target. All rounds from a 30 round mag dump stayed in the chest area of a standard silhouette target at 25 yards. A 30 round mag could be dumped in just under 3 seconds.
There were no FTF's and no hammer follows. The trigger functioned as designed; and I was using the cheapest Tulammo I could buy at Wal-Mart. Total rounds fired for the test was 260. Mag dumps consisted of four 20-round and two 30-round. The remaining rounds were fired in semi-auto or in controlled pairs - (single pull and release in Echo mode (2 rounds) or two quick pull and releases in Echo mode (4 rounds)) Bear in mind it only takes two or three mag dumps to get an AR smokin' hot. And I mean smokin'. I screwed on my suppressor and after only two mag dumps it lost its shiny black finish. It now has a nice "bronzed aluminum" patina. I would like to hear how Brotatoechip's test comes out. I would also like to know what spring rates Fostech uses in the current iteration of the Echo trigger. The smallest "batch" of springs LEECO will make is seven. And having custom springs made is not cheap. I installed one and want to keep one as a spare. |
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Posted: 8/11/2017 7:52:40 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:.
The smallest "batch" of springs LEECO will make is seven. And having custom springs made is not cheap. I installed one and want to keep one as a spare. |
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Posted: 8/11/2017 8:36:12 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Group buy? 
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Posted: 8/11/2017 8:42:17 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would have to say the test this afternoon was a success. The 95# "hammer hook/sear trip" spring coupled with the 13# disconnector springs resulted in a manageable semi-auto pull at just under 5 lbs and an Echo pull with the first release at about 2 1/4 lbs and the full pull to set the hammer for the binary release at just under 5 lbs. It was much easier to stay on target while dumping 20 and 30 round mags. "Controlled Pairs" (double taps) that sent four rounds down range were much easier to control and keep on target. All rounds from a 30 round mag dump stayed in the chest area of a standard silhouette target at 25 yards. A 30 round mag could be dumped in just under 3 seconds. There were no FTF's and no hammer follows. The trigger functioned as designed; and I was using the cheapest Tulammo I could buy at Wal-Mart. Total rounds fired for the test was 260. Mag dumps consisted of four 20-round and two 30-round. The remaining rounds were fired in semi-auto or in controlled pairs - (single pull and release in Echo mode (2 rounds) or two quick pull and releases in Echo mode (4 rounds)) Bear in mind it only takes two or three mag dumps to get an AR smokin' hot. And I mean smokin'. I screwed on my suppressor and after only two mag dumps it lost its shiny black finish. It now has a nice "bronzed aluminum" patina. I would like to hear how Brotatoechip's test comes out. I would also like to know what spring rates Fostech uses in the current iteration of the Echo trigger. The smallest "batch" of springs LEECO will make is seven. And having custom springs made is not cheap. I installed one and want to keep one as a spare. it doesn't take long to put a nice patina on your can with the binary trigger's 
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Posted: 8/12/2017 1:01:59 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Group buy? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:.
The smallest "batch" of springs LEECO will make is seven. And having custom springs made is not cheap. I installed one and want to keep one as a spare.
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Posted: 8/12/2017 9:06:48 AM EST
[#17]
I have five 95# springs I can sell. They cost me $10 per spring.
Matt said their minimum order is seven springs. The "per spring" price comes down with the size of the order. You would need to contact Matt for a quote. |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 12:38:49 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have five 95# springs I can sell. They cost me $10 per spring. Matt said their minimum order is seven springs. The "per spring" price comes down with the size of the order. You would need to contact Matt for a quote. |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 9:49:31 AM EST
[#19]
Yeah I would like to call dibs on one if possible as well
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Posted: 8/13/2017 9:52:44 AM EST
[#20]
I suggest making a post in the EE with them for sale. I would also buy a set.
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Posted: 8/13/2017 6:19:41 PM EST
[#21]
Ok. I'll post them on the EE.
Do you want me to go to LEECO and get the 13# disconnector springs to build a "spring kit" for y'all? Each kit will have one 95# sear spring and two 13# disconnector springs. I'll sell them for cost - whatever Matt charges me for them. |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 6:23:53 PM EST
[#22]
I'll buy a set or two either way.
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Posted: 8/13/2017 6:32:40 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok. I'll post them on the EE. Do you want me to go to LEECO and get the 13# disconnector springs to build a "spring kit" for y'all? Each kit will have one 95# sear spring and two 13# disconnector springs. I'll sell them for cost - whatever Matt charges me for them.
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Posted: 8/13/2017 7:35:52 PM EST
[#24]
Spring kit x 2 and i wouldn't mind throwing you a few extra bucks for the legwork man thank you
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Posted: 8/13/2017 8:01:38 PM EST
[#25]
Sign me up for two kits, please.
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Posted: 8/14/2017 9:32:45 AM EST
[#26]
How difficult is it to swap out these springs? I don't suppose you made (or plan to make) a how-to video??
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Posted: 8/14/2017 3:06:35 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok. I'll post them on the EE. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 6:38:09 PM EST
[#28]
Got some new springs today and decided to try a couple combos. This is a newer model (inspected 6/8/17) trigger. Used the gen 2 trigger lock for this test. Pretty much what ElAlto’s results were:
1.) 13 lb/in semi & echo disconnector springs & 88.75 lb/in (stock) back up disconnector (BUD) spring (hammer hook/sear trip,etc): - Semi 4lb 14oz trigger pull. 2 stage with about a 3.5lb 1st stage. Issue I had with this combo is I couldn't hear the semi trigger reset. Didn't like not having that audible click and it was hard to feel it in the trigger. - Echo Mode- 2lb 12oz first fire - single stage, 4lb 14oz echo reset. Feeling was way lighter then what was in it before. 2.) 13lb/in semi disconnector spring, 32lb/in (stock) echo disconnector spring & 88.75lb/in (stock) BUD spring : - Semi was almost identical to first test. Maybe a few more heavier pulls on some (5+ lbs), but main difference was it made a noticeable click for reset and felt better to me. Still not too heavy. - Echo Mode- 2lb 14oz first fire - single stage, 4lb 14oz echo reset. I was surprised there was no major difference between those 2. In semi mode all disconnectors work together, where in echo mode it looks like only the echo disconnector is working on the pull, along with the BUD. (Cause of heaver pull weight in semi?) Have not fired yet but I have some different springs coming tomorrow that I want to test first (ElAlto has already done a good job with this setup). After going back and watching mbell's video and looking closer at the function of the trigger, I have a feeling that the main culprit to an even pull weight is the BUD spring in both modes (could be completely wrong). I should have the 49 & 55 lb. springs coming tomorrow and will update. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 7:01:46 PM EST
[#29]
Okay guys, I stopped in at LEECO this morning and talked with Matt. After considering getting into buying springs, making up kits and selling them, I've decided to give you all the information you need and anyone that wants to get into this, have at it.
Matt has only seven of the 13# disconnector springs in stock. That's only enough to make up three "kits" - it takes two disconnector springs and one 95# sear spring for each kit. The minimum order for springs from LEECO is seven and they will cost $5.35 each, or $37.45. However, that's for a walk-in cash purchase only. They ship by UPS only and they will not ship seven springs. Minimum order to ship? A bag of 100 springs. But the price goes way down to around $2 a spring. Buy a few thousand and the price goes down to 33 cents a spring! Minimum order to set up the machine to cut more springs? 100 springs. LEECO is a spring shop and they deal in thousands, not a handful. A handful is costly. So, what do I do? Buy the seven springs and make up three spring kits? Which one of you guys do I sell to without letting down the others that would also like a kit? That's not fair. So far, I see maybe a handful of guys that are interested. I need 103 guys lined up for the springs I would be forced to purchase. See the kind of spot I'm in? The part number for the 13# spring is 8AB023 - GE/S See next post....... |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 7:02:46 PM EST
[#30]
The 95# spring was a custom job for me. It is not on their website and not in their catalogue. You have to call Matt to order these. The same rules apply for shipping and the prices are the same. The part number is 027 - 0121. I had to order seven and pay $10 cash for each ($70) It was a special job the owner was willing to do. I will sell five of mine and I'm going to the EE to post up. $10 each. First come, first served.
So, as you can see, unless I plan on buying hundreds of springs and spending my evenings bagging up spring kits, taking orders, addressing envelopes and licking stamps, this is not exactly a profitable venture. Add to that, one of the guys here posted that his factory sear spring was 88.7#, which leads me to believe Fostech has either improved their design or corrected an error. I'm not at all sure that I wouldn't get stuck with several hundred springs and no buyers. Matt Couey LEECO Spring International [email protected] 713-692-6281 There are spring shops in most major towns. Look in the phone book (there actually used to be a thing called a phone book) and see if there's a shop in your town. You may be able to find what you need for a lot better deal. Or, be an entrepreneur and buy a hundred 95# springs and two hundred 13# springs and roll the dice on making your money back. Maybe you make $1300. How long does it take to sell them all? What if you only sell half? Or maybe you only sell 20 or 30. That's why they call them entrepreneurs. Or call Fostech and tell them the trigger pull sucks and to fix it. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 7:39:45 PM EST
[#31]
The springs can be found online at places like Century Spring or The Spring Store. They are almost the exact outside diameter and free length. The only issue is you have to have a minimum $ amount for an order ($40 for Century Spring & $69 for Spring Store). I have the part numbers & dimensions if anyone wants to tinker w/ different spring weights.
If you want a similar setup as ElAlto's the spring parts are V77 and B54 on Century Spring. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 8:33:31 PM EST
[#32]
I'll let the other guys get them first. If any are left I'll take a set.
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Posted: 8/15/2017 3:06:24 PM EST
[#33]
Finally got some different spring weights to play with. Wanted to test my theory on the back up disconnector spring. I put the stock primary disconnector springs back in and changed out the BUD spring to the 55lb. Still need to test fire, but see below:
1.) Anderson lower- Newer trigger (inspected 6/8) W/ Gen 2 trigger lock, bushing mod & standard full auto BCG: - Semi: 3.75lb - 2 stage w/ first stage roughly 2.5lbs - Echo Initial: 3lb - Echo Reset: 4.5lb 2.) ST lower- Older trigger received in Feb., gen 1 trigger lock, BCG & bushing mod - Semi: 2.5lb- felt more like a long single stage.... - Echo Initial: 3.75lb - Echo Reset: 4.5lb The older trigger was a little tricky because the semi & echo disconnector springs looked different, and they would only work one way. Should be able to get out to the range later in the week. Will let you know how it goes. |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 7:32:37 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.... See the kind of spot I'm in?....... |
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Posted: 8/15/2017 9:01:13 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Finally got some different spring weights to play with. Wanted to test my theory on the back up disconnector spring. I put the stock primary disconnector springs back in and changed out the BUD spring to the 55lb. Still need to test fire, but see below: 1.) Anderson lower- Newer trigger (inspected 6/8) W/ Gen 2 trigger lock, bushing mod & standard full auto BCG: - Semi: 3.75lb - 2 stage w/ first stage roughly 2.5lbs - Echo Initial: 3lb - Echo Reset: 4.5lb 2.) ST lower- Older trigger received in Feb., gen 1 trigger lock, BCG & bushing mod - Semi: 2.5lb- felt more like a long single stage.... - Echo Initial: 3.75lb - Echo Reset: 4.5lb The older trigger was a little tricky because the semi & echo disconnector springs looked different, and they would only work one way. Should be able to get out to the range later in the week. Will let you know how it goes. look forward to hearing how your live fire test goes |
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Posted: 8/18/2017 4:40:55 PM EST
[#36]
Alright, went to the range this morning to test out the trigger with the 55lb backup disconnector (hammer hook/sear trip) spring.
Worked flawlessly on both semi and echo. Safety functions worked like they should (including switching from echo to safe/semi to disengage release fire). Ran it in a 300 BLK 8" pistol with both supers & subs (no can- forgot at home). About 5 mag dumps each (supers & subs) and some controlled pair drills. It has a maximum CQB brace with the JP SCS. I was surprised it worked so well as I heard the SCS does not play nice w/ the echo. All I can say is "Game changer." I won't be sending any springs (because I only received 2 of this particular spring), but these are available online from thespringstore.com . They run about $10/ea and I think the minimum order is $70, so it might work if some of you want to do a group buy. Part number is " PC024-120-11.800-MW-0.440-CG-N-IN " and I can give directions (with pictures) on how to swap out the spring. It may take a little time to create the directions (mostly because I'm tired of taking this thing apart right now). Ask me anything. |
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Posted: 8/18/2017 7:25:15 PM EST
[#37]
Update: Also found exact same backup disconnector spring on centuryspring.com for about $5 less. Minimum orders are only $40/order for that site (vs. $70 on the spring store). Part number is " 70193 "
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Posted: 8/22/2017 8:33:01 PM EST
[#38]
Great news!
What is the semi-auto trigger pull weight and the echo trigger "full pull" weight? |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 7:00:04 AM EST
[#39]
Cant wait to see the instructions!!! anyone buy the springs and selling one or two?
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Posted: 8/23/2017 9:02:01 AM EST
[#40]
Instructions are done.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/717146_Echo-Trigger-4-5-lb-Mod-disconnector-spring-instructions.html |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 9:05:40 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great news! What is the semi-auto trigger pull weight and the echo trigger "full pull" weight? 3.5lb echo initial (first round) 4.5 lb echo reset (to release 2nd round) |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 4:20:20 PM EST
[#42]
So is it just that one spring? If it's $40 for a pack, I might be willing to start a group buy
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Posted: 8/23/2017 4:58:58 PM EST
[#43]
The one that worked best for me was just the one spring. It's $6.55 /ea with a $40 minimum order for that website. That was the lowest I found.
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Posted: 8/23/2017 6:43:47 PM EST
[#44]
If you are starting a group buy I would be down otherwise I'm going to just place an order for $40 worth next week and sell off the rest.
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Posted: 8/23/2017 8:35:02 PM EST
[#45]
Excellent results!
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Posted: 8/26/2017 8:18:00 AM EST
[#46]
So I'm probably going to order 7, anyone want to jump in on one? including shipping from centuryspring and then to you, it'll probably be like $8-10/spring.
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Posted: 8/26/2017 10:46:33 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I'm probably going to order 7, anyone want to jump in on one? including shipping from centuryspring and then to you, it'll probably be like $8-10/spring.
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Posted: 8/26/2017 10:55:10 AM EST
[#48]
Does anyone know if the Echo would work with a 45 degree selector - so that 45 degree throw is semi, and 90 degree is Echo?
I want a setup as close as possible to the Geissele High Speed Selector for the M27. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 1:45:23 PM EST
[#49]
The selector has some pretty detailed cuts in it would need a lot of machinery and cad work on that one to try to machine something like that by hand would take allot of time for the part not to work bc of a couple of thousandth " i might buy one if someone figures it out and writes the program but your best chance is on the aftermarket but with low demand not likely
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Posted: 8/26/2017 6:27:00 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anyone know if the Echo would work with a 45 degree selector - so that 45 degree throw is semi, and 90 degree is Echo? I want a setup as close as possible to the Geissele High Speed Selector for the M27. |
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