Would a Different Lower Make the BRN-180 Better? - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Would a Different Lower Make the BRN-180 Better? (Page 1 of 4)

Posted: 1/26/2019 5:48:55 PM EDT

I could not help myself. I was thinking the AR15 lower would not look quite right with the BRN-180 upper.

Took an AR15 lower file I found and modified it to resemble an AR180B or Nodak NDS-18S.

Wish I had a Tormach in the garage, I would build one and see if it works. Still lots of little things to fix on this. I just couldn't wait to show you guys.

Thoughts? Calling @mike_nds

Posted: 1/26/2019 5:53:25 PM EDT

[#1]

I like that one better.

Posted: 1/26/2019 6:08:11 PM EDT

[#2]

That would make me buy one!

Posted: 1/26/2019 7:00:09 PM EDT

[#3]

Yep, RIX i like that better too.

Posted: 1/26/2019 7:09:28 PM EDT

[#4]

Hell yeah!

Posted: 1/26/2019 7:18:15 PM EDT

[#5]

That’s awesome. I have a Tormach, but lack the skillz to make that.

Posted: 1/26/2019 7:33:09 PM EDT

[#6]

That lower with the BRN 180 upper would be in my safe as soon as I could get my hands on them both. Are you listening Brownells? Cash is in hand. That would be a sweet combo. Add a LAW side folder or something similar and it would rock.

Posted: 1/26/2019 7:35:04 PM EDT

[#7]

That's pretty cool BigRix.

There are two benefits that immediately come to mind:

1. cosmetics would be cooler

2. I would change the ass end to take to a dedicated AR-180 style stock. Think Galil hinge.

This would sacrifice the ability to take AR-15 stocks however

Posted: 1/26/2019 7:47:48 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
I could not help myself. I was thinking the AR15 lower would not look quite right with the BRN-180 upper.

Took an AR15 lower file I found and modified it to resemble an AR180B or Nodak NDS-18S.

Wish I had a Tormach in the garage, I would build one and see if it works. Still lots of little things to fix on this. I just couldn't wait to show you guys.

Thoughts? Calling @mike_nds

http://ar180s.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Right-Side.jpg

http://ar180s.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Left-Side.jpg

http://ar180s.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Angle.jpg

http://ar180s.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Angle-Bottom.jpg

View Quote

WANT. BIGLY.

Posted: 1/26/2019 7:53:26 PM EDT

[#9]

Build it in steel like the original! https://www.theflatspot.net/ar-lower-flat.html

Beautiful drawing, OP.

Posted: 1/26/2019 8:18:56 PM EDT

[#10]

Posted: 1/26/2019 8:24:43 PM EDT

[#11]

Sign me up!

Posted: 1/26/2019 9:40:23 PM EDT

[#12]

Buffer tube hole is not needed. Make it solid. Add the stormwerk pattern for 10-32 bolts and the one center hole for max number of stocks being able to work on it.

Posted: 1/26/2019 9:53:27 PM EDT

[#13]

Solid idea but I'm with Mike, needs an ar 180 ass end, I'll see if I can work on it some too.

Posted: 1/26/2019 10:13:59 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
That's pretty cool BigRix.

There are two benefits that immediately come to mind:

1. cosmetics would be cooler

2. I would change the ass end to take to a dedicated AR-180 style stock. Think Galil hinge.

This would sacrifice the ability to take AR-15 stocks however

View Quote

You could make some kind of adapter for AR stocks, like what DSA does for FALs (and I think stuff like that is made for Galils, which uses a hinge based on the FAL's, anyways).

Posted: 1/26/2019 10:24:08 PM EDT

[#15]

Sorry, I am a little ignorant of the AR-18/180 stock, but wouldn't leaving it an AR rear end be more useful?
You could use a law folder, or the KNS Precision picatinny adapter and then use any of the Sig MCX/MPX stocks as well as any AR stocks.

Posted: 1/26/2019 10:28:22 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sorry, I am a little ignorant of the AR-18/180 stock, but wouldn't leaving it an AR rear end be more useful?
You could use a law folder, or the KNS Precision picatinny adapter and then use any of the Sig MCX/MPX stocks as well as any AR stocks.

https://cdn-us-cf2.yottaa.net/53ff2f503c881650e20004c9/www.brownells.com/v~4b.f4/userdocs/products/t_923000070_2.jpg?yocs=p_&yoloc=us

https://i2.wp.com/www.knsprecisioninc.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/IMG_7794.jpg
https://i2.wp.com/www.knsprecisioninc.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/IMG_7795.jpg

View Quote

Yes, and that's why Brownells went with the AR15 lower. More stock options.

But we are spit balling ways to make it more retro cosmetically.

Posted: 1/26/2019 10:39:33 PM EDT

[#17]

Brownells or someone just needs to make a 180 looking stock that uses one of the more modern/popular folding attachment methods. If you make it only take real 180 stocks you are going to be fishing in a very small pond.

Posted: 1/26/2019 10:48:53 PM EDT

[#18]

That's not a problem because there are no AR-180 stocks to be had.

If we were to make a dedicated AR15/180 hybrid lower it would be to try and make it look as much like an AR-180 as possible.

Which would require a look alike stock.

Posted: 1/26/2019 10:59:45 PM EDT

[#19]

I like it. The AR lower alone ruins the whole "retro" to the gun, however the ability to use AR mags is a plus. If somebody started machining lowers like you drew up I'd get one for sure.

Posted: 1/26/2019 11:01:04 PM EDT

[#20]

I'm ambivalent on the lower having to match, but there no denying the quality of your skill. Wow great job OP.

Posted: 1/26/2019 11:38:23 PM EDT

[#21]

I would absolutely buy one of these
AR-180’s from Brownells if they had a lower like that but I would prefer one without the AR15 back end. Yea great job OP

Posted: 1/27/2019 2:25:40 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted: Yes, and that's why Brownells went with the AR15 lower. More stock options.

But we are spit balling ways to make it more retro cosmetically.

View Quote

Make it more retro cosmetically - and -

offer an 80% lower that can be drilled and threaded for a buffer tube, when Brownells has done their AR-180/15 run and there are no more to be had.

Posted: 1/27/2019 6:09:34 AM EDT

[#23]

At what point is going to just be cheaper to buy an original?

Modernizing it while at the same time making it backward compatible? OK.

Posted: 1/27/2019 1:43:35 PM EDT

[#24]

Would a Sully stock with a LAW folder adaptor at least forfil a somewhat correct profile.

Posted: 1/27/2019 4:46:38 PM EDT

[#25]

Brownell's delivered the wrong part to the market and now the world has to scramble to come up with half-ass solutions?

The correct lower is already out there- all the work is done. NDS-18.

Only the correct part will do. If not, Brownell's should scrap the entire project.

Do it right, or please don't do it at all.

Posted: 1/27/2019 7:05:02 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
Would a Sully stock with a LAW folder adaptor at least forfil a somewhat correct profile.

View Quote

Thats what I was thinking as well.

Posted: 1/27/2019 7:27:59 PM EDT

[#27]

I call it the Fusion Lower.

Played with the upper to be a little closer to the @Brownells BRN-180.

I will need to make a different rear cap for the upper and I can't do that till I get one in my hand and take some measurements. Well I cant make any firm dimensions. I can certainly play with the design then modify it once the upper arrives.

Posted: 1/27/2019 8:55:03 PM EDT

[#28]

I am impressed with your skills and the overall concept, but I would most assuredly eliminate the FAKE “spot welds” on this lower receiver.

Posted: 1/27/2019 9:19:53 PM EDT

[#29]

Nice.

If someone could make that an 80% it would probably work with most finishing jigs.

Posted: 1/27/2019 9:23:13 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
That's not a problem because there are no AR-180 stocks to be had.

If we were to make a dedicated AR15/180 hybrid lower it would be to try and make it look as much like an AR-180 as possible.

Which would require a look alike stock.

View Quote

Why not just an adapter?

Sort of like the kns rail, but a hinge and no rail.

Or something that blends better to the AR-180 stock with a hinge.

Posted: 1/27/2019 10:42:39 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
I am impressed with your skills and the overall concept, but I would most assuredly eliminate the FAKE “spot welds” on this lower receiver.

View Quote

Helps make the lower in my opinion.

Posted: 1/28/2019 12:21:51 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted: I call it the Fusion Lower.

Played with the upper to be a little closer to the @Brownells BRN-180.

I will need to make a different rear cap for the upper and I can't do that till I get one in my hand and take some measurements. Well I cant make any firm dimensions. I can certainly play with the design then modify it once the upper arrives.

http://ar180s.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/AR180S.com-Fusion-Lower.jpg

View Quote

Very nice. Is it a gun?

Posted: 1/28/2019 1:05:59 AM EDT

[#33]

I want one of these

Posted: 1/28/2019 10:15:54 AM EDT

[#34]

Good stuff!

We received a lot of great feedback, both at SHOT and on outlets such as AR15.com. We think you'll see a lot of great items coming to market to support the BRN-180, both from Brownells and other great companies.

Posted: 1/28/2019 2:38:27 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
Good stuff!

We received a lot of great feedback, both at SHOT and on outlets such as AR15.com. We think you'll see a lot of great items coming to market to support the BRN-180, both from Brownells and other great companies.

View Quote

Sweet... tell us more when you can!

Posted: 1/28/2019 4:32:01 PM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
I call it the Fusion Lower.

View Quote

Good work, but Hybrid-Abortion-Lower is not the solution to Hybrid-Abortion-Upper.

Only the correct part will do, I'm afraid.

Brownell's should do this right, or please don't do it at all.

Posted: 1/28/2019 5:11:01 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
That's pretty cool BigRix.

There are two benefits that immediately come to mind:

1. cosmetics would be cooler

2. I would change the ass end to take to a dedicated AR-180 style stock. Think Galil hinge.

This would sacrifice the ability to take AR-15 stocks however

View Quote

This. I couldn't care less about the appearance of the thing, but if you're eliminating the need for a buffer tube, why use clunky AR folding adapters and stocks.

Posted: 1/29/2019 2:01:16 PM EDT

[#38]

I put up some more pics on my website AR180S.com but the first 2 iterations had problems. Mostly the squared off rear end would not allow room for the web of your hand.

I tried again this morning and came up with this.

Modifying the rear and is still possible after I get an upper in hand but this might be an alternative that could be sold as an 80% and maybe existing jigs would work?

Fun project either way.

Posted: 1/29/2019 6:09:45 PM EDT

[#39]

I personally think it would be better without the buffer tube for a stock mounting option.

Posted: 1/29/2019 6:40:22 PM EDT

[#40]

The problem is that you need the hole for the buffer to nest into.

And it's way easier to drill it from the rear than from the front.

I still think there is enough real estate to have the stock comb sit slightly lower, which would add to the cosmetics.

Posted: 1/29/2019 6:51:50 PM EDT

[#41]

What if you make the 187 lower AR compatible, including the buffer tube, but have a screw in stock adapter with a vertically adjustable mount that would allow the user to set the stock placement from low to Beowulf X?

You'd sell moar if someone waiting on Brownell's upper to come back in stock knows that he can test it w/ a standard upper, and if Brownell's drops the upper after one or two runs, you're not stuck w/ 8700 proprietary lowers you can't sell.

Posted: 1/31/2019 10:15:10 AM EDT

[#42]

Very cool! Thanks Mike_NDS for sending me over to see this.

My thoughts for stocks is either the KNS pic adapter and sig stock as someone else mentioned, or the ACE receiver block, https://star15.com/parts-accessories/ace/receiver-blocks/ar15-sig-556-receiver-block-arrb, ACE folding mechanism https://star15.com/parts-accessories/ace/folding-mechanisms/standard-folding-mechanism-fsm-with-boss, and ACE AK Stock https://star15.com/parts-accessories/ace/buttstocks/ak-skeleton-stock-akfx-s-0-5

Posted: 1/31/2019 11:28:04 AM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
Very cool! Thanks Mike_NDS for sending me over to see this.

View Quote

So $183 will get you stizz-ocked... plus $800 upper... and let's say for the sake of comparison, a Geissele FCG of your choice (~$220?) vs. the included SIG Matchlite Duo trigger. $1203 on your lower.

SIG MCX Conversion kit is $1700 and still needs $180 stock, so $1879 on your lower.

It would be interesting to see someone run both guns balls-out and see if the BCX is worth saving- $6-700.

It might not be too hard to make a better rifle than SIG USA.... ;)

Posted: 2/2/2019 12:35:20 PM EDT

[#44]

The feedback on here as well as my website and Instagram has been a lot of help.

Based on some of that feedback I modified the original squared off version. I lowered the pistol grip to give more room for the web of your hand.

Thoughts?

I don't think it make sense to create a lower that would only work with the BRN-180 so I would leave the buffer area intact.

Posted: 2/2/2019 1:24:08 PM EDT

[#45]

Looks good.

For an "alternate" stock attachment, you could also thread the back wall of the .500"x.200" stock locating hole.

ETA: what is the current width of the squared off section at the back?

Posted: 2/2/2019 1:28:14 PM EDT

[#46]

I agree w/ you on the buffer tube.

Then someone can put a Faxon ARAK upper on it in 7.62x39mm and have an extreme platform mashup.

Posted: 2/2/2019 2:10:42 PM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:
Looks good.

For an "alternate" stock attachment, you could also thread the back wall of the .500"x.200" stock locating hole.

ETA: what is the current width of the squared off section at the back?

View Quote

1.026"