Would a Different Lower Make the BRN-180 Better? Part Deux - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Would a Different Lower Make the BRN-180 Better? Part Deux (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 10/6/2019 7:33:59 PM EST

[#1]

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The Fightlite SCR has a very short mag well. I haven't heard of any problems with it.

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Question: I seem to recall having read that the mag catch on the 18 differs from an ar15 because there were issues witb magazine retention or presentation with an ar15 type mag catch. Since the ar15 catch obviously works on the ar15 family, is the shorter mag well the culprit in why the ar15 catch didnt work for the ar18?

The Fightlite SCR has a very short mag well. I haven't heard of any problems with it.

Robinson's XCR also has a noticeably shorter magazine well. No problems with any AR box magazine or drum.

Posted: 10/6/2019 7:55:17 PM EST

[#2]

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swOHmatt if it wasn't for ArmaLite there wouldn't be a AR15/M16, AR18/180 is family.

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Ah yes, but we aren’t really talking family here are we? But I’ll get back to that.

First, we just voted not to merge the AR-15/M-16 retro forum with the A2 forum. Guns which share what, a 98% commonality of parts. I wouldn’t just call that family, I’d almost state they’re identical twins. There is very little if anything common from the AR-15 to the AR-18 except the name of the company which developed them. You can’t even use an AR-15 mag in the AR-18 without cutting a mag catch slot in the magazine. Any A2 posts made in this forum are quickly moved.

Second, the AR-7 is “family” yet they don’t show up in this forum.

Now back to that first thought. We aren’t even talking Armalite AR-18s here are we? We’re talking about newly made products which aren’t even adaptable to the original AR-18. These are all bastardized components (both the uppers and lowers) which barely look like an AR-18.

These products have very little if anything to do with the original AR-18 and nothing to do with the AR-15/M-16s made before the A2.

So why is this in this forum? There are forums more appropriate to these products.

Posted: 10/7/2019 9:46:43 AM EST

[#3]

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Ah yes, but we aren’t really talking family here are we? But I’ll get back to that.

First, we just voted not to merge the AR-15/M-16 retro forum with the A2 forum. Guns which share what, a 98% commonality of parts. I wouldn’t just call that family, I’d almost state they’re identical twins. There is very little if anything common from the AR-15 to the AR-18 except the name of the company which developed them. You can’t even use an AR-15 mag in the AR-18 without cutting a mag catch slot in the magazine. Any A2 posts made in this forum are quickly moved.

Second, the AR-7 is “family” yet they don’t show up in this forum.

Now back to that first thought. We aren’t even talking Armalite AR-18s here are we? We’re talking about newly made products which aren’t even adaptable to the original AR-18. These are all bastardized components (both the uppers and lowers) which barely look like an AR-18.

These products have very little if anything to do with the original AR-18 and nothing to do with the AR-15/M-16s made before the A2.

So why is this in this forum? There are forums more appropriate to these products.

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I agree. The reason I posted here is because this is the only forum I hang out on at ARFCOM. I thought it would be appreciated. There really is no where else for the orphaned AR-180 and the Retro guys have always welcomed the discussion.

My apologies. I had no idea this thread would turn into a shit show.

If I could figure out how to lock it I would.

Posted: 10/7/2019 10:16:30 AM EST

[#4]

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I agree. The reason I posted here is because this is the only forum I hang out on at ARFCOM. I thought it would be appreciated. There really is no where else for the orphaned AR-180 and the Retro guys have always welcomed the discussion.

My apologies. I had no idea this thread would turn into a shit show.

If I could figure out how to lock it I would.

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There are a couple posters that are bound and determined to turn retro forum threads into a shit show.

Posted: 10/7/2019 10:26:03 AM EST

[#5]

There used to a variants forum that the AR-180 discussion was centered in.

I think the Retro forum is the appropriate place now.

ETA: and we have had AR-7, shotgun, and handgun retro threads without too much derp.

Posted: 10/7/2019 10:27:53 AM EST

[#6]

double tap

Posted: 10/7/2019 11:38:28 AM EST

[#7]

I like what you guys have done with this lower.

If a certain person(s) likes their idea better, they are free to put it the time, work, and investment, licensing, etc. to start manufacturing their own lowers as they see fit

Posted: 10/7/2019 12:06:46 PM EST

[#8]

I really didn’t care until it turned into a shit show/pissing contest. The retro forum is the one place here where the regulars show some restraint. I’d really hate to loose that decorum. Once it went to hell, then it needs to go where it belongs.

Mike, when I google Site:ar15.com ar-7 I get several hits. None are in the retro forum.

Posted: 10/7/2019 2:22:07 PM EST

[#9]

Yeah, it was a long time ago. One of the guys bought a minty original AR-7 and posted pics.

Could have been in another forum. I am getting old, maybe I remember it wrong.

ETA:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/ArmaLite-AR-7-Japanese-Magazine-Article/123-737532/

Posted: 10/7/2019 5:59:31 PM EST

[#10]

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If a certain person(s) likes their idea better, they are free to put it the time, work, and investment, licensing, etc. to start manufacturing their own lowers as they see fit

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In the words of Jane Bennet, “This. A thousand times this!”

Posted: 10/7/2019 6:30:01 PM EST

[#11]

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Could have, should have, would have...........been great.

I see an AR-180 and a messed up AR-15.

My opinion means nothing. I agree in that. But this "thing" needs to go back to the drawing board.

Of course there are limitation in what can be done, but wow is it a miss.

I will give you credit on the AR-180B copy, you did a damn nice job. This however

I know, I know..... If you do not like it then do not buy it.....will be mantra.

https://i.imgur.com/YyYKLwa.jpg

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At least it doesn't have the fake spot-welds.

Posted: 10/7/2019 7:02:26 PM EST

[#12]

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Quoted:

Ah yes, but we aren’t really talking family here are we? But I’ll get back to that.

First, we just voted not to merge the AR-15/M-16 retro forum with the A2 forum. Guns which share what, a 98% commonality of parts. I wouldn’t just call that family, I’d almost state they’re identical twins. There is very little if anything common from the AR-15 to the AR-18 except the name of the company which developed them. You can’t even use an AR-15 mag in the AR-18 without cutting a mag catch slot in the magazine. Any A2 posts made in this forum are quickly moved.

Second, the AR-7 is “family” yet they don’t show up in this forum.

Now back to that first thought. We aren’t even talking Armalite AR-18s here are we? We’re talking about newly made products which aren’t even adaptable to the original AR-18. These are all bastardized components (both the uppers and lowers) which barely look like an AR-18.

These products have very little if anything to do with the original AR-18 and nothing to do with the AR-15/M-16s made before the A2.

So why is this in this forum? There are forums more appropriate to these products.

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I do agree that the BRN-180 upper is not a "retro" product and discussions about it should probably be in the piston forum.

That said, I don't think BigRix did anything wrong by posting the NDS-1815 here. He's certainly got a following for his AR-18 content here. Honestly, I think the NDS-1815 has enough retro flair to qualify, and I can see it being used for what I would call retro inspired builds that have more 15 to them than 18, stuff that wouldn't be clone correct but could certainly be cool...

For that matter, I personally don't have any problem with AR-18 posts here, as I think those should be considered retro. (And to be honest, these days, I don't know where else you would post about them...) I think you can even make a case for AR-180 discussion, in the same way that we talk about retro-styled but currently manufactured products from any number of manufacturers, from Nodak receivers to Colt rifles.

But, ya know, just my unsolicited opinion...

Posted: 10/7/2019 10:30:34 PM EST

[#13]

So, what's the best representation of the original stock? Sully stock? Magpul fixed rifle stock?

Posted: 10/8/2019 7:00:24 AM EST

[#14]

The one I'm going to make.

Seriously though, the plan is to make a butt that has the cosmetics of the original but with a better hinge.

I want to make it compatible with either the -18S or the -1815 with a different receiver-side block for each.

Posted: 10/8/2019 8:10:33 AM EST

[#15]

I have to say I have been away from the RETRO forum for awhile and my job as a Forensic Death Investigator has had me completely depressed from several recent cases, but this thread has provided the most comical relief reading the back and forth comments from guys getting passive aggressive on both sides of the issues, and then others attacking all the parties involved.

Thanks for cheering me up.

Posted: 10/8/2019 9:30:10 AM EST

[#16]

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The one I'm going to make.

Seriously though, the plan is to make a butt that has the cosmetics of the original but with a better hinge.

I want to make it compatible with either the -18S or the -1815 with a different receiver-side block for each.

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Too bad you can't get ArmaLites forging tool they made.

Posted: 10/8/2019 10:35:43 AM EST

[#17]

Actually I posted about my original Armalite AR7 in this very forum several years ago so I know it has been discussed here.

I don’t have a problem with AR180s or vaguely similar guns being discussed here. I know we have talked about Robinson M96s here before too.

Posted: 10/8/2019 10:41:18 AM EST

[#18]

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Too bad you can't get ArmaLites forging tool they made.

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To be honest, I hate everything about forgings except that they give you a parts very close to final dimensions/shape.

Typically I've only seen claims of a 13% increase in strength over billet.

Based on 12 years of personal experience with all of the issues forgings have, I'll take billet every time.

Posted: 10/8/2019 11:54:07 AM EST

[#19]

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To be honest, I hate everything about forgings except that they give you a parts very close to final dimensions/shape.

Typically I've only seen claims of a 13% increase in strength over billet.

Based on 12 years of personal experience with all of the issues forgings have, I'll take billet every time.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Too bad you can't get ArmaLites forging tool they made.

To be honest, I hate everything about forgings except that they give you a parts very close to final dimensions/shape.

Typically I've only seen claims of a 13% increase in strength over billet.

Based on 12 years of personal experience with all of the issues forgings have, I'll take billet every time.

It was sweet!

Posted: 10/8/2019 12:14:44 PM EST

[#20]

I have no doubt. The AR-180B deserved a better lower than that polymer thingy.

Posted: 10/8/2019 1:37:11 PM EST

[#21]

Your memory is still good Mike, at least one if not more threads re the AR-7 in the AR-15 retro forum. I can somewhat see the point of the "purists" but as time goes by with parts/rifles becoming more scarce alternatives have to be considered and the forum should stay relevant with the changing times. BigRix and Mike have been worthy contributors to the retro forum. Maybe I should read thru the Black Rifle again to refresh my memory, as I remember competing designs were referenced a number of times in the history of the AR-15.

Posted: 10/8/2019 1:43:57 PM EST

[#22]

Oh nice, I was waiting for these to come to the market!

Posted: 10/8/2019 3:53:52 PM EST

[#23]

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I have no doubt. The AR-180B deserved a better lower than that polymer thingy.

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Indeed!

Posted: 10/8/2019 4:12:36 PM EST

[#24]

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I have no doubt. The AR-180B deserved a better lower than that polymer thingy.

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Between that and the silly 'brake' machined on the end of the barrel, I sold mine

Posted: 10/9/2019 7:10:41 AM EST

[#25]

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Price: We have not run production parts yet so we don't have a proper accounting of run time on the CNC yet. I'll know more next month.

Availability: We should have finished parts off the mill by the end of October. It will take another 2-3 weeks to get a batch anodized.

Not taking any pre-orders yet, but you can email info@ to get on a notification list.

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Emailed to get on the list.

Posted: 10/9/2019 8:28:02 PM EST

[#26]

emailed to get on the list.

I'd love a proper stock option to go on the NDS-18 lowers too. I've got a Costa Mesa, a Howa, a Sterling and two B's sitting here and both Nodak lowers are in boxes because I haven't made my mind up about how to tackle the stock portion of the build.

Posted: 10/10/2019 10:57:02 AM EST

[#27]

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I have no doubt. The AR-180B deserved a better lower than that polymer thingy.

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It was easy to punch a hole through...

Attached File

Posted: 10/13/2019 12:31:19 PM EST

[#28]

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I have no doubt. The AR-180B deserved a better lower than that polymer thingy.

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That was a huge reason I really held off on buying an AR180B series rifle.

I loved the fact that NoDak made a replacement lower that accepted the B series but it was backwards compatible with the original AR180 uppers.

It solved issues with my Sterling AR180. Pins walking, feed jams once in a while, eating my original modded mags and try to find replacement parts for the original.

Posted: 10/13/2019 1:41:43 PM EST

[#29]

I'm glad you like it. We put a lot of time and money into that receiver knowing it was a tiny niche market.

We've sent quite a few to Canada via IRUNGUNS.

Posted: 10/23/2019 3:11:20 PM EST

[#30]

Here's a production receiver with the BRN-180S upper mounted. Has a really nice fit to our lower, no wiggle.

Posted: 10/23/2019 8:27:31 PM EST

[#31]

Personally, I dig the setup. Thanks for sharing.

Posted: 10/23/2019 9:45:25 PM EST

[#32]

Looks great, can’t wait to get one!

Posted: 10/28/2019 4:55:33 PM EST

[#33]

Photoshop mock up of what I am building as soon as the BRN-180s and NDS-1815 are available.

Posted: 10/28/2019 11:07:33 PM EST

[#34]

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https://imgur.com/8gFIsKG.jpg

Photoshop mock up of what I am building as soon as the BRN-180s and NDS-1815 are available.

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I absolutely love it! Great setup and very ascetically pleasing.

Posted: 10/29/2019 8:09:52 AM EST

[#35]

That is badass.

The BRN-180S uppers are shipping now.

We'll have the NDS-1815 lowers off the mill in a week. Then I have to start processing a batch for ano.

Luckily they require waaaaaay less prep than forgings. Just a quick debur and blast.

Posted: 10/29/2019 7:43:58 PM EST

[#36]

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https://imgur.com/8gFIsKG.jpg

Photoshop mock up of what I am building as soon as the BRN-180s and NDS-1815 are available.

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I was thinking of doing the same thing...

I like it a lot!!!

Posted: 10/30/2019 12:52:09 PM EST

[#37]

Very nice.

This type of endeavor is one of the things I love about the retro community.

Thanks RigRix, Mike, and all the fine folks at NoDak Spud.

My bank account doesn't thank you, but I do.

Posted: 11/2/2019 12:45:59 PM EST

[#38]

So we crunched all the numbers and we will be selling these @ $199 + actual shipping cost.

The shipping will vary based on rural or urban location and residential vs commercial building (UPS

).

I have to finish up a batch of retro stuff, then I will begin processing these for ano at the end of next week.

Posted: 11/2/2019 9:46:34 PM EST

[#39]

Can’t wait to get one!

Posted: 11/20/2019 12:19:26 PM EST

[#40]

Got the first batch of the NDS-1815's out for anodizing yesterday. Hopefully we'll get them back before Thanksgiving break.

Since this is the first batch, it's SN's RIX-0001 to RIX-0036. So potentially collectable in the future..................LOL

Posted: 11/20/2019 12:58:13 PM EST

[#41]

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Got the first batch of the NDS-1815's out for anodizing yesterday. Hopefully we'll get them back before Thanksgiving break.

Since this is the first batch, it's SN's RIX-0001 to RIX-0036. So potentially collectable in the future..................LOL

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Nice

I hope I get #2!

Posted: 11/20/2019 1:32:52 PM EST

[#42]

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The NDS AR-180B copy is a work of art. The BRN-180 lower deserves the same level of thought.
Is it too much to ask for something like this? Is it out of line to complain about not getting something like this?

http://www.nodakspud.com/images/NDS-18S%20right.JPG
Which one would you want the bottom one or one based on the top one?
I dare OP to add a poll to this thread asking this question.@bigrix
http://ar180s.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/1BEA3977-13A4-4DF6-B2CA-0557DEACEB4C.jpeg
@mike_nds

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Fake welds? #gross

Or are those not supposed to be spot welds?

Posted: 11/21/2019 11:23:18 AM EST

[#43]

Stop quoting the guy that was banned from the thread.

When I don't like something a company made I don't keep going into a thread and shitposting.

I simply decide I'm not interested and go on my way.

Posted: 11/23/2019 3:44:29 PM EST

[#44]

So do we just shoot you an email to get on the list for one?

Posted: 11/23/2019 8:07:37 PM EST

[#45]

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So do we just shoot you an email to get on the list for one?

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That or give them a call. I paid for mine the other day and I want to say they are shipping in the next week or so.

Posted: 11/24/2019 2:13:24 PM EST

[#46]

Yes, we got them back from anodizing on Friday. I didn't post because we wanted to contact everyone on the list first.

Posted: 11/25/2019 7:20:31 PM EST

[#47]

Personally, I don't mind retro AR-10s or AR-180s or any other retro military semi auto being posted here but if it's such an ass ache for some of you guys why can't there be a section for all retro semi autos other than AR-15 types?

Also, Big Rixx has a nice article in Firearms News ( which is on sale now ) about his new 180-type lower for the BRN-180 upper.

An AR-180 Aficionado Comes Up With Something New for the BRN-180

Posted: 11/26/2019 8:33:41 AM EST

[#48]

It seems to me that for a casual shooter already familiar with an AR15 that NDS, BigRix, and Brownells are all providing decent options for those interested in shooting the Stoner-Miller piston design without having to find and "invest" in an original AR-180. Also, rebuilding an Eagle Arms/Armalite 180B on the NDS lower is an option, but then you have to deal with all the issues with the AWB version, finding one at a decent price, buying and actually rebuilding it on the lower, etc.; add it up and you may end up at original Armalite "collector" prices. In both cases you have zero manufacturer support for the original rifle. Would I have preferred Brownells to make a full "retro" (even out of aluminum)? Yes. Did they? No. For folks that have had both originals and the BRN, am I missing something? It seems like if you are a casual AR shooter not wanting to spend a lot of time or money that BRN 180 on a standard AR lower is "close enough" and even has some advantages (like the hand guard and Brownells support as long as they are around).

As far as aesthetics, people buy ARs with all kinds of messages and roll-marks and the spot welds are a nice homage that do not interfere at all with function. I would rather have the BigRix/NDS BRN prototype lower if it was more like the NDS AR 18 lower, with the flat end, but I don't know enough to know whether that really limits the folding stock options that much and there will be customers that will want to use stocks options that use the buffer tube assembly port. For now, its seems that you could get the upper and wait and see how the lower market responds. I am hoping that the buyers remorse for early adopters will be that there are more options later and not less.