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Posted: 7/6/2023 6:06:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Couple more questions I just thought of. Since everything I have seen that uses rimmed straight wall cartridges (like the 357) the whole round goes into the chamber all the way to the rim, and the distance between the bolt face and the breech sets the headspace. Sine the head fits down in the face of the AR bolt, how much of the case is unsupported? While I can not tell from the picture, did you trim down the front face of the AR bolt to make it the same "height" as the rim of the 357 case? Or is the case head of the 357 case strong enough to not be a issue? Is there any bulging of the cases? Did you mod the barrel extension any? As in, the feed ramps? From the picture showing the loaded mag in the gun, it kinda looks like you rounded it out/smoothed it a little. Wow....somebody actually thought this through a bit. Good questions, sir. I had to leave a stand-off ridge about 10 O'clock on the barrel root/face to hold the case back since the 357 rim is not as thick as the depth of the bolt face pocket. If you look at the breach end of a Desert Eagle barrel, it is the exact same way. I didn't invent anything new in that regard. There is no bulging or issue having the case pulled slightly rearward out of the chamber. It might have been possible, to cut the front of the lugs back, shorten the extractor and ejector and possibly eliminate or at least reduce the length of the set-back, but that also might require an extractor relief cut in the barrel root....I'm not sure. It worked the way I did it, so I did not pursue other routes. The barrel extension is a standard Tromix center feed style used in the 375 and 458 SOCOMs. Making the barrel is more complicated and time consuming than a standard barrel, since you have to set the head space and torque the barrel extension down, before you actually know where that 10 O'clock position is going to end up compared to TDC of the barrel extension. Tony Rumore Tromix |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 6:12:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Could you get bored and check out what can single stack in the various 5.7 mags? Back when the Ruger five seven came out, I bought one and started dicking around with large single stack rounds in that magazine, but dropped it after finding the lock-up "delay" in the design is on the edge of working, even with the 5.7 round. The cases back out of the Ruger's chamber prematurely and you end up with the shoulder blowing forward quite a bit. It works, but there isn't much margin there. Better than a 32NAA, but still not good. I need to get one of the new Smith 5.7's and see if their design might handle a big straight wall cartridge. Tony Rumore Tromix |
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Posted: 7/9/2023 8:27:07 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow....somebody actually thought this through a bit. Good questions, sir. I had to leave a stand-off ridge about 10 O'clock on the barrel root/face to hold the case back since the 357 rim is not as thick as the depth of the bolt face pocket. If you look at the breach end of a Desert Eagle barrel, it is the exact same way. I didn't invent anything new in that regard. There is no bulging or issue having the case pulled slightly rearward out of the chamber. It might have been possible, to cut the front of the lugs back, shorten the extractor and ejector and possibly eliminate or at least reduce the length of the set-back, but that also might require an extractor relief cut in the barrel root....I'm not sure. It worked the way I did it, so I did not pursue other routes. The barrel extension is a standard Tromix center feed style used in the 375 and 458 SOCOMs. Making the barrel is more complicated and time consuming than a standard barrel, since you have to set the head space and torque the barrel extension down, before you actually know where that 10 O'clock position is going to end up compared to TDC of the barrel extension. Tony Rumore Tromix Yea I have a DE with 357, 44, and 50AE barrels and am familiar with their design. The bolt on them, the bolt is very shallow (about the thickness of the rims) and the bolt lugs and extractor stick out a little. The round goes all the way into the chamber to the rim, then there is a cutout in the breech face to clear the extractor (and bolt lugs). Almost like a Mosin Nagant. That is why I was curious how you did it. Is there any way you could post a picture showing the breech of the barrel? Just really curious to see it. Did your old 44 mag barrels/uppers do the same thing? |
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Posted: 7/12/2023 12:40:39 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Back when the Ruger five seven came out, I bought one and started dicking around with large single stack rounds in that magazine, but dropped it after finding the lock-up "delay" in the design is on the edge of working, even with the 5.7 round. The cases back out of the Ruger's chamber prematurely and you end up with the shoulder blowing forward quite a bit. It works, but there isn't much margin there. Better than a 32NAA, but still not good. I need to get one of the new Smith 5.7's and see if their design might handle a big straight wall cartridge. Tony Rumore Tromix I wasn't necessarily thinking of using them in their native pistols. |
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Posted: 7/12/2023 1:44:45 AM EDT
[#5]
I think this is the first ever hearing of a rimmed cartridge in an ar platform for me. Love where this is going!
ETA 22s dont count haha |
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Posted: 7/12/2023 9:28:53 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 8/30/2023 10:41:25 PM EDT
[#7]
357 maximum is basically the 350 legend or 357AR a wildcat developed by a guy known as moleman on various forums
I have been playing with various versions of magnum catridges for years. (not at the Tony Rumore or Big Bore level) Im just a basement shop hack. My biggest issue has always been modding AR mags to get the rounds to feed. Since i shoot cast bullets getting the cases to feed is also a hurdle. Currently I am doing a 44 Auto mag using 6.8 spc mags as a starting point. You could sells the mag release and do well i think. Are there still 357 mag desert eagle mags around? I have 2 44 mag DE mags I bought for a 44 magnum no.4 enfield conversion but they were hard to find |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:01:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Tony's video came across my feed again today . Had me thinking of trimming a Grendel case back enough to put the ogive behind the front rib and necking up to . 357...or .355 and use Legend bullets .
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:08:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 357 maximum is basically the 350 legend or 357AR a wildcat developed by a guy known as moleman on various forums I have been playing with various versions of magnum catridges for years. (not at the Tony Rumore or Big Bore level) Im just a basement shop hack. My biggest issue has always been modding AR mags to get the rounds to feed. Since i shoot cast bullets getting the cases to feed is also a hurdle. Currently I am doing a 44 Auto mag using 6.8 spc mags as a starting point. You could sells the mag release and do well i think. Are there still 357 mag desert eagle mags around? I have 2 44 mag DE mags I bought for a 44 magnum no.4 enfield conversion but they were hard to find The uppers Ron used to make used straight 20rd mags as a sleeve and starting feed ramp for Desert Eagle mags that were (I think) pinned into them. |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:25:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could sells the mag release and do well i think. Are there still 357 mag desert eagle mags around? I have 2 44 mag DE mags I bought for a 44 magnum no.4 enfield conversion but they were hard to find  https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup.com/magazines/magnum-research/desert-eagle/ |
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Posted: 8/30/2023 11:37:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tony's video came across my feed again today . Had me thinking of trimming a Grendel case back enough to put the ogive behind the front rib and necking up to . 357...or .355 and use Legend bullets . Wasn't there a Grendel 357 wildcat? Gremlin maybe? |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 1:02:26 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasn't there a Grendel 357 wildcat? Gremlin maybe? I think so ... I don't think it acknowledged front mag ribs * as with 556 mags , about .257 is as much as you'll get away with . That's why .277 wolverine is trimmed back to 39mm. I think a trimmed back .357 Grendel at 52ksi would be above .357 maximum ...about on par with 350legend but better stacking and feeding ....easier to reload also |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 1:34:39 AM EDT
[#13]
Many years back a company was offering a .357 caliber in ARs. Back before all this 300 short stuff got started. Basically, you trim a .223 Remington case and cram a .357 bullet in it. The rifle fed from OEM .223 magazines. That's a very abridged version.
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Posted: 8/31/2023 1:42:33 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Many years back a company was offering a .357 caliber in ARs. Back before all this 300 short stuff got started. Basically, you trim a .223 Remington case and cram a .357 bullet in it. The rifle fed from OEM .223 magazines. That's a very abridged version. Only problem with that one was no case taper ...would have been nice in .348 . * 300 blk mags later on would have helped ** also why the socom feeds so much nicer than 450 bushmasher |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 11:55:08 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Many years back a company was offering a .357 caliber in ARs. Back before all this 300 short stuff got started. Basically, you trim a .223 Remington case and cram a .357 bullet in it. The rifle fed from OEM .223 magazines. That's a very abridged version. It's called 350 Legend now. The first time that I heard about the idea, was in an early 1980's edition of Guns and Ammo magazine. Col Cooper and Gunsite was looking to make the AR15 more versatile. IIRC, the final version used a 357 bullet and the .223 case was blown out an extra 0.010" at the base for extra taper, for feeding in an AR. (not easy for the average reloader to do safely and consistently) The 350L uses .355 bullets and the case is made 0.010 fatter than .223 at the base.  You can open the .355 case up, and reame the 350L chamber to fit 358 bullets. But unless you already have a giant stock of .358 bullets, you're actually limiting your future choices. You'd be better off swaging the .358 bullets down to.355 with a swaging tool in your reloading press. Big White Box plowed every wildcat in the .35x range into obsolescence. ----- ----------- BOT: This .357 rimmed AR, is a different animal. |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 3:59:50 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Interesting place to crop the image.  he was implying MG, and probably not informed that TR is an 07/02, at least, probably all kinds of leter s and numbers in there, so no "al capone" type stuff goin on |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 4:14:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Could you get bored and check out what can single stack in the various 5.7 mags? thats kinda just a long 9mm idea no? i would love a double stack 10mm or way larger idea... the DE is so chonky, and so few roudns, limits my interest |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 7:11:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Didn't they do a run of 41mag in the DE years ago ? Grendel necked to 357ish and trimmed down to 1.3" ...almost a 357 automag . No bolt or extractor mods .
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Posted: 8/31/2023 11:13:43 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't they do a run of 41mag in the DE years ago ? Grendel necked to 357ish and trimmed down to 1.3" ...almost a 357 automag . No bolt or extractor mods . Think there's been several runs of 41 |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 11:33:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryI dont need 2 if you want one PM me |
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Posted: 8/31/2023 11:59:04 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont need 2 if you want one PM me Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont need 2 if you want one PM me Good lord, no. Maybe someday I'll get the lightweight 5" one in .357 for my brother or my Sinister, both of em have .357s. Only way I could be tempted to a Deagle mag AR is if Tony gets one to run .38 wadcutters.
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Posted: 9/3/2023 8:48:31 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You could sells the mag release and do well i think. Are there still 357 mag desert eagle mags around? I have 2 44 mag DE mags I bought for a 44 magnum no.4 enfield conversion but they were hard to find https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup.com/magazines/magnum-research/desert-eagle/ Mags are still made as the 357 desert eagles are still in production. You can usually find checkmate mags for cheaper than buying them directly from MRI. Checkmate has been the OEM supplier for desert eagle mags for a long time. So naturally when you buy them from MRI, they will be marked up a little. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 1:27:59 PM EDT
[#23]
Tony I remeber back when you sold a few 44 mag barrels in the late 90's early 2000's
Wanted one but had no idea then what I would need to finish it. I have one of the DE component packages with 357, 44, and 50 A&E Mags are availible for all three cals. 40 bux to the sky is the limit. If you ever get back around to doing a run of this stuff I'd be interested. More so,now after reading this thread and knowing more about what is needed work & component wise to get them running. Thanks for sharing. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 1:31:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Could some of the rim be removed from the 357 mag in order to facilitate better feeding?
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Posted: 9/5/2023 8:32:05 PM EDT
[#25]
Sure it could, and Paladin can do it. I was working with a cat using a HK USP Tactical with a custom barrel using a Rem. .44 mag case cut back and rim re-cut to 7.62x39 size, then later to .308 size, then switched case to a shortened .44 Automag. Point is, re-cutting the rim is no hill for a climber.
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Posted: 9/5/2023 9:56:15 PM EDT
[#26]
The 357 is definitely a capable and established cartridge. I had always hoped Ruger would do a Deerfield in 357 ...still do . My thoughts on that though make me think a fightlite scr with a ruger rotary mag would be even better . Why I enjoyed this exercise also since I can't quite do it myself .
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Posted: 9/8/2023 4:42:32 PM EDT
[#27]
About the time I first started to get interested in guns, Olympic made an AR in .30 Carbine. Unfortunately I did not know then that I would want one of those many years later. I could see this in 10.5" pistol configuration.
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Posted: 9/10/2023 9:01:38 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had always hoped Ruger would do a Deerfield in 357 ...still do . Same here, but I am not holding my breath. I highly doubt ruger will ever bring the 44 carbines back, especially now that they own marlin lever guns. And if by some chance they did bring them back, I doubt they would be interested in other calibers. I have one of the later deerfield carbines, the mini 14 style model with detachable mags. And while I love it, I almost fear shooting it much as parts are super hard to find, if not impossible. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 9:06:56 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ^this. I have a crap-ton of .357 Mag (& .38 Spec) brass & components. 16” & 10” or so options would be awesome. Add .41 mag to the list and I’d think i died and went to Heaven. Extremely cool. And thanks for this and all your other posts Tony: You are an incredibly talented individual |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 11:22:04 PM EDT
[#30]
I could make do if there were a .357 mag top-fed pancake mag version
* bottom eject through the magwell |
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Posted: 11/18/2023 9:22:07 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't have a 44 bolt at the moment, but here's a pic of the 357 bolt. It just looks like a 6.5 Grendel bolt with a .125" depth. I just opened up a 5.56 bolt for the prototype. Extractor is a 6.8 that I recut the groove a bit higher to accommodate the thicker rim of the .357. Tony https://i.imgur.com/FmOGZYs.jpg I have been thinking about this lately and started doing a little looking around. So what I am finding online, you basically just made a 7.62x39 bolt? Rim diameter of a 357 is .440 and the rim thickness is .060 7.62x39 rim diameter is .447 and rim thickness is .057 Also you state the depth of the bolt face is .125. From what I can find online, that is also the depth of the 7.62x39 bolt (6.5 grendel is deeper) Talk about close. Wondering if you could use a 7.62x39 bolt and maybe only have to mod the extractor a little. That would at least reduce the amount of machine work to do to make a upper. |
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Posted: 11/18/2023 11:47:14 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I could make do if there were a .357 mag top-fed pancake mag version * bottom eject through the magwell I will do perverse things w/ any AR upper that has it's own magwell. Thumbhole stock trigger jig perverse things... |
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Posted: 11/19/2023 6:44:49 PM EDT
[#33]
This thread makes me want a 300blk lever rifle even more.
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