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Posted: 5/6/2021 6:55:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's always going to be diminishing returns with these things. Is the Kahles worth twice the price of the Credo? To some, yes. To others, no. Although, I'd like to pick up a Credo at at some point for review. I’m a huge fan of the K16i but this is absolutely true. Generally I use the Razor as a benchmark. The Razor is really the gold standard in the class and is an excellent optic. Is the Kahles better? Yes. But incrementally so. The Razor is at the sweet spot in the price/performance curve. For some the extra performance is really worth it. But for most, probably not. Only you can decide. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 7:15:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m a huge fan of the K16i but this is absolutely true. Generally I use the Razor as a benchmark. The Razor is really the gold standard in the class and is an excellent optic. Is the Kahles better? Yes. But incrementally so. The Razor is at the sweet spot in the price/performance curve. For some the extra performance is really worth it. But for most, probably not. Only you can decide. When I sold my Razor for an NX8, it was because at the time I wanted a smaller footprint, lighter, better looking optic, that wasn't orange with a hokey throw lever, knowing the Razor was a better optic in most categories. I put a lot of rounds downrange with that Razor, it's awesome, but I don't think I'd buy another one..... since it's fugly, and there's other not fugly ones that can compete. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 8:25:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I sold my Razor for an NX8, it was because at the time I wanted a smaller footprint, lighter, better looking optic, that wasn't orange with a hokey throw lever, knowing the Razor was a better optic in most categories. I put a lot of rounds downrange with that Razor, it's awesome, but I don't think I'd buy another one..... since it's fugly, and there's other not fugly ones that can compete. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’m a huge fan of the K16i but this is absolutely true. Generally I use the Razor as a benchmark. The Razor is really the gold standard in the class and is an excellent optic. Is the Kahles better? Yes. But incrementally so. The Razor is at the sweet spot in the price/performance curve. For some the extra performance is really worth it. But for most, probably not. Only you can decide. When I sold my Razor for an NX8, it was because at the time I wanted a smaller footprint, lighter, better looking optic, that wasn't orange with a hokey throw lever, knowing the Razor was a better optic in most categories. I put a lot of rounds downrange with that Razor, it's awesome, but I don't think I'd buy another one..... since it's fugly, and there's other not fugly ones that can compete. How much was the eyebox flexibility an issue when changing? |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 9:16:12 PM EDT
[#4]
I received my K16i from Euro Optic today. For the record it was a demo but looks new, nice way to save $300.
First impressions are it’s awesome. First this thing is super easy to get behind. Some quick dry fire drills in awkward positions has me sold on the massive 1x eyebox. I like the reticle; it’s like a mil ACOG horse shoe reticle. It’s very easy on the eyes without illumination on. The illumination is bright but not to the level of an Aimpoint. At max brightness the red is visible in max daylight against a big white cloud. Any other background and it’s bright. More than enough.I like that it stores a spare battery under the windage cap. Seems like this is just right for an AR15. Total weight is 8 lbs 8 oz unloaded.  |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 10:12:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I received my K16i from Euro Optic today. For the record it was a demo but looks new, nice way to save $300. First impressions are it’s awesome. First this thing is super easy to get behind. Some quick dry fire drills in awkward positions has me sold on the massive 1x eyebox. I like the reticle; it’s like a mil ACOG horse shoe reticle. It’s very easy on the eyes without illumination on. The illumination is bright but not to the level of an Aimpoint. At max brightness the red is visible in max daylight against a big white cloud. Any other background and it’s bright. More than enough.I like that it stores a spare battery under the windage cap. Seems like this is just right for an AR15. Total weight is 8 lbs 8 oz unloaded. https://i.imgur.com/6dKg9oa.jpg Awesome! Sounds like another satisfied customer. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 10:22:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How much was the eyebox flexibility an issue when changing? I wouldn't say it was an issue but it was a bit tight. At 1.93, magnified, it took some getting used to. |
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Posted: 5/6/2021 10:45:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Have you tried a Trijicon TR25? Despite trying most of the optics on your list, I keep ending up back there for all non-mil stuff (because the tritium glow that emits at night). Hunting, 3-gun, etc. I just love the fiber brightness and the 1x eyebox.
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Posted: 5/7/2021 9:35:33 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I received my K16i from Euro Optic today. For the record it was a demo but looks new, nice way to save $300. First impressions are it’s awesome. First this thing is super easy to get behind. Some quick dry fire drills in awkward positions has me sold on the massive 1x eyebox. I like the reticle; it’s like a mil ACOG horse shoe reticle. It’s very easy on the eyes without illumination on. The illumination is bright but not to the level of an Aimpoint. At max brightness the red is visible in max daylight against a big white cloud. Any other background and it’s bright. More than enough.I like that it stores a spare battery under the windage cap. Seems like this is just right for an AR15. Total weight is 8 lbs 8 oz unloaded. https://i.imgur.com/6dKg9oa.jpg Which reticle do you have? Sounds like the SM1. |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 3:16:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which reticle do you have? Sounds like the SM1. SM1 |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 4:53:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Not a very exciting conclusion. Went with the Credo SPF 2900015.
I was one click away from buying the ATACR from Scalarworks but for a $3k investment thought I'd start with the Credo to try it out first. The ATACR may be a bit overkill for the SR15, especially since my property/ range maxes out at 150yds. With that being said, a buddy of mine has the Kahles and I'm meeting him next week to shoot with it. If the Credo sucks, I'll probably swap it out for the Kahles or upgrade to the ATACR anyway, just because I want it! Baby steps. Haha Appreciate all the input. |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 7:01:51 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not a very exciting conclusion. Went with the Credo SPF 2900015. I was one click away from buying the ATACR from Scalarworks but for a $3k investment thought I'd start with the Credo to try it out first. The ATACR may be a bit overkill for the SR15, especially since my property/ range maxes out at 150yds. With that being said, a buddy of mine has the Kahles and I'm meeting him next week to shoot with it. If the Credo sucks, I'll probably swap it out for the Kahles or upgrade to the ATACR anyway, just because I want it! Baby steps. Haha Appreciate all the input. Cool man. Make sure you give us a rundown of the Credo |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 7:12:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cool man. Make sure you give us a rundown of the Credo Yeah, I know you mentioned you may want to grab one eventually. It arrives Monday, I'll post some info up here next week. |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 8:42:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have 2 K16i's and a Razor 1-6, and this is my observation as well; the K16i just edges out the Razor, but it's a small enough difference that it requires switching back and forth to notice. In actual use, they're both close enough that the difference is negligible. The K16i is noticeably lighter though. The Kahles horseshoe dot is very fast at closer ranges. I prefer the Razor's illumination control though (off positions between each of the settings, so you can select a preferred brightness and turn counterclockwise for Off, and 1 click clockwise for On straight to that brightness vs the Kahles continuous knob that requires you to dial to your preferred brightness setting from all the way counterclockwise from Off, each time). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I only have a little time with a VCOG, but neither version (6x or 8x) excited me that much. The NX8 is plenty capable and a great scope, but the ATACR is an obvious upgrade. Yeah, haven't found much info on the VCOG. Eye box/ 1x brightness? I agree with this observation. The weight is very noticeable. Yup, NX gtg. ATACR in the running. The 1-6x VCOG isn’t even in the same league as the others mentioned. Reticle illumination sucks and eyebox is mediocre. 1-8x VCOG is allegedly a bit better. The K16i is the best I’ve ever used for 1x performance, even slightly edging out the Razor IMO. I have 2 K16i's and a Razor 1-6, and this is my observation as well; the K16i just edges out the Razor, but it's a small enough difference that it requires switching back and forth to notice. In actual use, they're both close enough that the difference is negligible. The K16i is noticeably lighter though. The Kahles horseshoe dot is very fast at closer ranges. I prefer the Razor's illumination control though (off positions between each of the settings, so you can select a preferred brightness and turn counterclockwise for Off, and 1 click clockwise for On straight to that brightness vs the Kahles continuous knob that requires you to dial to your preferred brightness setting from all the way counterclockwise from Off, each time). I agree with this observation. The weight is very noticeable. Picking a scope with a good reticle is also key. I love the sig tango 6t reticle. |
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Posted: 5/7/2021 11:12:53 PM EDT
[#14]
See you in a couple months at exchange ??
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Posted: 5/8/2021 8:48:19 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: See you in a couple months at exchange ?? Probably more like a couple weeks. 
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Posted: 5/12/2021 8:32:47 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: See you in a couple months at exchange ?? Make that 4 days. Didn't even open the Credo. Bought the ATACR from Scalarworks. Already mounted up. It's quite nice. |
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Posted: 5/12/2021 4:00:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Make that 4 days. Didn't even open the Credo. Bought the ATACR from Scalarworks. Already mounted up. It's quite nice. |
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Posted: 5/13/2021 4:59:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Of all of the modern FFP LPVOs I have tested, I think ATACR 1-8x24 and Raor Gen3 1-10x24 have the most forgiving eyerelief, followed by March 1-10x24 Shorty and S&B 1-8x24 Dual CC.
Better SFP LPVOs are slightly more forgiving with Razor Gen2 and Kahles K16i/K18i being in the lead. The illumination is the brightest on the Razor Gen2 and K18i. K16i is slightly less bright. Best bang for the buck is still Delta Stryker 1-6x24 which is a lot less money and has the same ultrabright fiber dot. The Razor Gen2 has slightly more forgiving eyebox than the Stryker though, but there is a price to pay for that. ILya |
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Posted: 5/14/2021 7:30:05 PM EDT
[#19]
1x and 6x
  1x and 6x   Both on 8 illumination wise. The vortex dot is much brighter in person as the pics don't do it justice, but nowhere near the NX8 illumination wise, both the actual intensity and visual appearance just due to how the NX8 illuminates more space (The whole circle instead of a single dot) Eye box favors the razor but not overly so, I have no issues getting behind the NX8 which I know some people complain about, but its not severely lacking as reviews imply. Just picked this razor up and wow, I'm impressed. Hopefully the pics will help others make their choices |
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Posted: 5/15/2021 11:08:18 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of all of the modern FFP LPVOs I have tested, I think ATACR 1-8x24 and Raor Gen3 1-10x24 have the most forgiving eyerelief, followed by March 1-10x24 Shorty and S&B 1-8x24 Dual CC. Better SFP LPVOs are slightly more forgiving with Razor Gen2 and Kahles K16i/K18i being in the lead. The illumination is the brightest on the Razor Gen2 and K18i. K16i is slightly less bright. Best bang for the buck is still Delta Stryker 1-6x24 which is a lot less money and has the same ultrabright fiber dot. The Razor Gen2 has slightly more forgiving eyebox than the Stryker though, but there is a price to pay for that. ILya Good takes. I just couldn't find enough info, or play with in person, on the S&B to justify the $. I was very curious about the March F but OOS everywhere. What little info I found on both of those were possibly questionable 1x performance, but that's just online blathering. Although I really liked my Razor II 1-6, they're fucking ugly and I hate the throw levers. With all that being said, so far I'm pumped about the ATACR, but only after one range trip. To my surprise, the 1.93, even at 8x, was very easy to get behind (Prone? Meh). At 1x, it's beyond good enough to avoid another F'n offset or piggyback RD, which was one of my main goals. Brightness is beyond plenty. Yes, daylight super bright. Once it's bright enough to run in bright daylight, I don't care about comparing to others. |
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Posted: 5/17/2021 10:19:34 PM EDT
[#21]
So, the ACTAR is worth the squeeze over the NX8?
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Posted: 5/18/2021 12:11:36 AM EDT
[#22]
From the standpoint of pure optical brightness and absence of any discernible aberration, Kahles glass is absolutely stunning. I've found nothing to compare favorably to it. There may be other features that matter more, but if the best glass is primary, especially in low light or challenging contrast, Kahles is my gold standard. Breathtaking.
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Posted: 5/18/2021 1:47:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, the ACTAR is worth the squeeze over the NX8? I have both and feel the ATACR is definitely worth the price difference - the glass is phenomenal and to me it’s just so much easier to get behind. I’m running both on 16 inchers with Scalarworks mounts, the NX8 is the capped elevation version, and the ATACR has the older reticle so as apples to apples as it’s gonna get. Now as much as I love the ATACR, there’s just no denying how much lighter and better balanced the NX8 feels and the dot is truly near-Aimpoint bright (although the ATACR’s is perfectly capable in bright sunlight.) So, YMMV, I guess? Honestly, though, you really can’t go wrong with either. |
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Posted: 5/18/2021 8:28:19 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have both and feel the ATACR is definitely worth the price difference - the glass is phenomenal and to me it’s just so much easier to get behind. I’m running both on 16 inchers with Scalarworks mounts, the NX8 is the capped elevation version, and the ATACR has the older reticle so as apples to apples as it’s gonna get. Now as much as I love the ATACR, there’s just no denying how much lighter and better balanced the NX8 feels and the dot is truly near-Aimpoint bright (although the ATACR’s is perfectly capable in bright sunlight.) So, YMMV, I guess? Honestly, though, you really can’t go wrong with either. That's helpful. Thanks for sharing. I have had two NX8's (still have one NIB) and have never been enamored with them. All the praise they get has been my experience as well as the negatives. I'd like to try something that's a bit more forgiving on the eyebox. |
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Posted: 5/18/2021 1:41:27 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's helpful. Thanks for sharing. I have had two NX8's (still have one NIB) and have never been enamored with them. All the praise they get has been my experience as well as the negatives. I'd like to try something that's a bit more forgiving on the eyebox. But you know if the NX8 was the same price as like the Razor, it would be a pretty damn awesome $1k used scope. |
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Posted: 5/18/2021 3:07:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's helpful. Thanks for sharing. I have had two NX8's (still have one NIB) and have never been enamored with them. All the praise they get has been my experience as well as the negatives. I'd like to try something that's a bit more forgiving on the eyebox. Honestly, I personally feel like the NX8 isn't even in the same league. Eye box you say? Personally I find it to be leaps and bounds better than the NX8. Although I really did like the NX8 for the obvious reasons (Footprint, brightness, weight), the trade offs are well worth it if you can afford an ATACR. On a side note, shooting with the Kahles is every bit as good as people say. Honestly, the performance can rival the ATACR, but dare I admit it looks like Johnny generic scope to me, and aesthetics are a factor for me. Plus I haven't really heard much about it's durability. Not saying it's not durable, I just don't know. Versus I did read a couple reports about the ATACR being bombproof. But all third hand info. |
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Posted: 5/18/2021 6:40:24 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honestly, I personally feel like the NX8 isn't even in the same league. Eye box you say? Personally I find it to be leaps and bounds better than the NX8. Although I really did like the NX8 for the obvious reasons (Footprint, brightness, weight), the trade offs are well worth it if you can afford an ATACR. On a side note, shooting with the Kahles is every bit as good as people say. Honestly, the performance can rival the ATACR, but dare I admit it looks like Johnny generic scope to me, and aesthetics are a factor for me. Plus I haven't really heard much about it's durability. Not saying it's not durable, I just don't know. Versus I did read a couple reports about the ATACR being bombproof. But all third hand info. Of course its not in the same league, one is a 1600 dollar optic and the other is 2600 dollars, designed for completely different purposes. https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/just-released-nightforce-nx8-ffp-1-8x24mm-30mm-tube-atacr-f1-1-8x24mm-34mm-tube-models.6798633/post-6927319 Here's someone from Nightforce commenting on a bunch of the aforementioned optics, a good read for those considering some of these optics. I still want to upgrade to an ATACR at some point, but the more I use my NX8 the more I find less issues with it. I'm conflicted forsure |
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Posted: 5/21/2021 11:31:02 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course its not in the same league, one is a 1600 dollar optic and the other is 2600 dollars, designed for completely different purposes. https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/just-released-nightforce-nx8-ffp-1-8x24mm-30mm-tube-atacr-f1-1-8x24mm-34mm-tube-models.6798633/post-6927319 Here's someone from Nightforce commenting on a bunch of the aforementioned optics, a good read for those considering some of these optics. I still want to upgrade to an ATACR at some point, but the more I use my NX8 the more I find less issues with it. I'm conflicted forsure Good thread link. Try an ATACR! :) |
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Posted: 5/22/2021 2:49:59 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good thread link. Try an ATACR! :) I definitely want to. I've got a lower that should arrive at the gun shop sometime this coming week...I have no plans for it and an ATACR wasn't in the wheel house...but who knows what happens. I love the NX8, so I can only imagine the ATACR is a solid upgrade in the eyebox and reticle catagory if you get the FC - DMx setup. I love the weight of the NX8 tho and that made the K16 appealing but..I've already got two spendy LPVOs. I'll probably sell one to upgrade instead of adding a third :( Hows the DMx reticle illuminated? Got any pics? I haven't seen the new ones anywhere online yet. I've heard its a hair less bright...but NX8 is so bright a hair less bright is a non issue ha. |
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Posted: 6/3/2021 2:54:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I definitely want to. I've got a lower that should arrive at the gun shop sometime this coming week...I have no plans for it and an ATACR wasn't in the wheel house...but who knows what happens. I love the NX8, so I can only imagine the ATACR is a solid upgrade in the eyebox and reticle catagory if you get the FC - DMx setup. I love the weight of the NX8 tho and that made the K16 appealing but..I've already got two spendy LPVOs. I'll probably sell one to upgrade instead of adding a third :( Hows the DMx reticle illuminated? Got any pics? I haven't seen the new ones anywhere online yet. I've heard its a hair less bright...but NX8 is so bright a hair less bright is a non issue ha. Sorry haven't looked at this in a while. Illumination is on par with NX8. Once it's good enough in bright sunlight, it's good enough and I don't care about comparing tiny details. I do like the new DMX reticle for sure. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 6:05:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Has anyone tried the new March 1-10x24 dual plane 'shorty' scope?
Central red dot and crosshairs are SFP, remainder of reticle is FFP. Like the S&B Short Dot but about half the price. Only 17.6oz and 8.4" long. With side focus down to 10 yards. Not many LPVO with side focus! Just now hitting the US, but may solve a lot of problems. |
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Posted: 6/9/2021 12:01:12 AM EDT
[#32]
It is a rather nice scope. I've spent quite a lot of time with it.
ILya |
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Posted: 6/9/2021 11:28:35 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still a bit enamored with the ATACR Do you like the reticle? |
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