Trying to round out my MK18...you guys think there is a much better deal to be had on a Colt Lower than one Brownell's has for sale now?  Have the upper, BCG, CH, and DD 10.3” barrel.

I would recommend getting the Brownells lower and holding out for a Colt 10.3 or getting a Colt barrel chopped. Seems like it would be a shame to me, for you to collect all these Colt parts/spend all that money and have a full Colt with a DD barrel. One thing I've learned is patience is well worth it in the clone game. There will come a day that DD bbl will bug the hell out of you lol

Lol...good point.  I’ll just be using the DD barrel until I find a Colt 10.3” or cut one down.

Other option is to buy a 6920, part it out and keep the lower and have the barrel cut down.

Would you guys go that route or just snatch the lower from Brownell’s and watch for a barrel?

Personally, I prefer a DD barrel, so that wouldn't bother me. Getting a barrel chopped leaves a lot to chance - like the potential for getting a 10.45 instead of a 10.3. That would bug me a lot more than the brand of the barrel. If it were a choice between a factory Colt 10.3 or DD 10.3... well, I'd still probably take the DD, but that's me ;p.

On the issue of a lower, it depends on how much you care about aesthetics versus hassle. The lower from the 6920 is likely to be a little better looking than the Brownells lower; however, the deal from Brownells is hard to beat once you add all possible discounts and it's a lot less hassle than parting out most of a 6920. Also, you can use the lower from Brownells on a pistol build while you wait for your stamp, not so with the 6920. So, they both have their benefits.

Pistol build while waiting was the plan...so maybe it’s Brownell’s then.

Does the Brownell’s non-“LE” serial number pass the Clone correct test?

Neither is more correct than the other. I mean, if you're getting nitpicky down to the serial prefix, it should say "M4A1 Carbine" and not "M4 Carbine", have no Colt "snake C" logo and have Property of US Govt markings ;p. So, I'd say no meaningful difference between LE or CR.

Outside of a custom engraved 80%, your only other option would for maximum accuracy beyond the Brownells M4 lower would be a Colt M4A1 marked SOCOM lower - and those demand kidney selling prices. I'd say the M4 Carbine marked lower is the most cost effective option to get within the realm of being correct. If you really want to be correct, I'd go the 80% route.

ETA: Of course, with all the M4 to M4A1 upgrades going on in the US Mil right now, you could always get cute and strike the M4 Carbine line and put M4A1 Carbine below the serial, lol. Other than the lack of US Govt. markings and the Colt "C Snake", that'd be pretty accurate. No idea the legal ramifications of trying to change the model name, especially if you're filing a Form 1.

You're sweating this far too much. I'm pretty sure Colt announced that the LE prefixes are going away or being reduced to a smaller number of firearms. Either way a "LE"prefix is no more accurate than a "CR"prefix.

This will be a M4 Carbine marked Colt lower receiver which is about as good as you can get. I'd buy the Brownells lower as it's a great deal and gives you a fantastic clone lower right out of the gate. Regarding the barrel I'd rock a DD or a Colt and wouldn't care too much about either. Hell I have a Ballistic Advantage 10.3 that is fantastic and I'm currently working on an all KAC (sans RIS II etc) type build. I have looser tolerances for clone acceptance than a lot of people here so take that for what it's worth but you're not going to be called out for a DD barrel or a "CR" prefix Colt lower.

I agree; I wouldn't sweat it. The Brownells Colt lower is going to get you a lot closer than many people that have great looking clones. And no offense to Milspec, because I agree little details do start to bug you later on that you didn't think you'd care about, but I definitely wouldn't trade a factory DD 10.3 for a cut down Colt. It'd be an expensive and - to me anyway - pointless swap. But, I'm like Outrider, some details don't really matter to me as much as others. Barrels? If it's the proper specs, I don't care. You kinda have to decide your own tolerance for variation and how much it matters to you. Even if you do everything perfect, there is probably going to be someone, somewhere, that'll tell you it's not good enough.

Thanks everyone!  Now I just need to decide if the stamping/engraving issues people have talked about on the Brownell's lower would bother me or not...I mean, it's a tool so as long as it functions as it should.

They are very minor. Mine was good outside of the "O" and "L" not being complete which appears to be an issue on all of these lowers. Colt rifles are not known for their beauty however. The stock trigger in them is surprisingly good and the fit on some of my uppers is very tight with no slop. I'm a happy buyer.

is the .410 thumb screw the correct Wilcox riser for mk18?

I would go for it man. The only reason I havnt done a a browells colt lower yet is because damn Nfa wait times and already having a spare sbr lower without an upper.

the roll mark blem sucks but it's still a colt, and imo the price is very right.

Outside of the O and L, which they all have to varying degrees, you could possibly end up with some chatter marks and/or something weird like one of the selector stops being milled almost completely off and not matching the other like on the one I ended up keeping. Despite the selector stop, it was still the best looking of the three I handled. They vary quite a bit - some from the early batch almost qualify as factory "firsts". You might get lucky.

Out of three I had my hands on, this one stood out as the worst for the chatter marks on the mag well:



I'd say it's fairly unlikely to get anything worse than the above and chances are relatively good that you'll get something better.

ETA: Just to compare, this is the one I kept up close:

The roll mark missing portions doesn't bother me. Having certain parts engraved instead of stamped kind of does. What I don't like is how the forging isn't lined up quite right with the milling. Also, there is a ridge in the inside front of the magwell that I don't think should be there. I haven't measured it to compare to the drawings but mags are tight. One more thing is that the receiver extension, stock, and buffer seem cheaper than Colt Parts I've seen in the past.

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Bottom line. If you want a Colt pistol, this is the only way to do that (maybe a 6920 OEM). I personally wouldn't SBR one of these rifles.

ETA: The selector stops do look like crap on mine like someone did it quickly by hand.

https://youtu.be/TcQqqkypTos

+1

That was cool.

<a href="https://postimg.org/image/3sa1zqq5h/"></a>

dont buy colt expanse guns and you wont have quality issues. just my .02

Are the colt lowers offered through brownell's considered part of colts "expanse" line? Weren't the lowers really the only colt part in their expanse line of rifles?

That would absolutely drive me batshit.

I have buddies with that issue on Anderson, and others.  I would not Form 1 a lower that had a tight magwell

a friend knows more but all id say is DONT buy a new colt. also, G&R tactical sold an internet cloner i know a complete colt expanse lower.....and didnt inform him it was expanse in the ad. he had tooling marks on it and finish issues. G&R owner wanted to be tough and said all they do is open the box, do a SN check and close the box, refunds not really a thing..... so the guy offloaded it and got a real colt lower.

anyone that sells expanse parts and advertized as legit colts is just plain mean. u effing KNOW. you are the seller and its your job to ensure accurate sales. the picture on their pages is legit colt tho.

buyer beware! id go with non colt at this point.

#offrant

If that was to the video....yea it was cool and probably the last time I do that!! Haha

That surefire brake is painful on auto.
A few mag dumps, and I wasn't sure if I had a concussion

I'm glad I got some video because I don't think I'll be shooting this upper without the can on again anytime soon.

It's funny, on semi auto it never bothered me.  I knew it was loud and a big pressure wave, but not horrible.  Such a different experience now.

Ok, here's my last part for my build:

Black, or Tan, or go all in for a tanodized G33?

No, they aren't considered part of the Expanse line by advertising or based on their parts. Based on the parts these lowers included, they are 6920 lowers... but who really knows what their actual origin is.  If I had to guess I would say they are 6920 line lowers that were rejected and ended up in a spare parts room. There are lowers with similar issues - although maybe not as bad - floating around that definitely weren't from the Expanse line. For example, the countless AR15A4, M4 Commando and other lowers that have popped up with similar roll mark troubles. Either way, the Brownells lowers were almost certainly made by Colt themselves and not a contracted 3rd party.

BTW, speaking of the tight magwell, mine had that issue to begin with - even a fully loaded PMag wouldn't drop free; however, after I swapped the mag catch and adjusted it, empties now drop free as they should. In my case at least, it wasn't the mag well itself so much as the mag catch causing problems. In the end, I basically swapped out the entire LPK. After switching over to a Colt keyhole upper last night, my last non-aesthetic complaint has been solved (upper/lower tightness). Upper to lower fit is now excellent - no wobble, but the pins still push free by hand. I mean, the selector stops not matching and the roll mark does bug me a little, but not really enough to go through the hassle of getting another Colt lower.

I've got the Form 1 ready and now that I've ironed out any remaining functional complaints, I'll probably go ahead and mail after Christmas.

Outside of vendor issues, why? What’s coming out of the factory? I’ve seen subcontracted non-essential parts (like stock) with appropriate cage codes, but you seem to be implying something else.

Please share.

Arms Unlimited did the same... didn't realize it until I already had SBR paperwork processing so I was stuck with it, but i was PO'd for sure.  Luckily it was early in Expanse timeline so doesn't have Expanse specific SN or markings and I basically replaced all the Expanse parts, (Buffer setup, trigger, mag release, etc) but still left a bad taste in my mouth.  AU acted like non-issue, same deal - check SN and sell.  Pics, description, everything online said Genuine Colt M4 etc, NOT Expanse.

I would have my local dealer form 3 that thing right back and cancel the in-process form 4. I wouldn’t care if I had to pay shipping and transfer fees. That is unacceptable.

I was just thinking I should play it safe and run with AU even though I’d be paying $100 over current market.

Anywhere to find a legit 6920 from a reputable dealer these days? I’m hesitant with CDNN for similar reasons and their purchase of Colt Competition assets, inventory, and parts. Some of their advertised full guns are built up OEMs.

The colt lower I got from brownell's wasn't too bad. It had the usual O and L incompletion and some flashing on the back leading to the receiver extension. I still plan to mail out my form 1 for it. It'll be a shooter so I'm more concerned with function over aesthetics with this one. When it's approved it will house this urg.

Any love for the 249f?



Not sure which Configuration I like more



I love my aimpoints but there is something about the Rx01-NSN that really appeals to me.

Edit: everything except the lower and lmt rear sight was bought here through the EE. I used to read posts about how cloning is a disease, well I didn't believe until I made an account only 3 months and about $1500 dollars ago.  There is no such thing as "finished"

Dang it, I still need to find myself an LMT rear sight.

Carry handle + hacksaw

yup. i did it. and smoothed the edges with a grinder. easy. legit. $40 for one all day.

and yeah the others pretty much covered expanse stuff. unless its GB or armslist and u see the actual item, its a crap shoot.

its to the point where as a machinist its easier for me to just mill out an 80% A1 or A2 thats got whatever rollmark i want on it.

Yep.

Haven't posted this one up in a while.  Browsing this thread is making want to build a Block II to go with it.

Is there anything objectively wrong with the OEM series? They seem like a great starting point for the money

Here's my first CQBR "clone".
I wanted to model it after a specific in-service picture, so I chose this one since it would be the most economical to complete with my existing parts inventory.
Also, I love the gray A1 lower on this gun. Unfortunately my lower is all wrong, but it's what I already had a stamp on. May try to get a NDS lower stamped in the future.
Aside from that, and the fact the upper receiver isn't Colt ("Gotta piss with the cock ya got..."), I tried to keep things operationally correct. Gas port size, gas ring, etc.
Where should I take this build from here?

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Get a chrome lined barrel

Just kidding, is that the barrel from Andro? I’m thinking about getting one

Looks snazzy. If you don't want to go the traditional route, I'd say go Block 1.5 with some BII accessories on it. Say an EXPS3 tan, M3X (ew, no lumens) or one of the new tan Surefire M300/M600s (yay, lots of lumens) and so on.

Yes. Love the block 2 accessories on a Mk18.

No, they are a great value for building up a gun if you don’t want the other assorted hardware, however when companies take these OEM models and finish them It could be misleading for someone wanting a full factory 6920 (see CDNN) and may not know better. It’s not deceptive but it’s not clear either.

The only way for the customer to realize these guns are not 6920s but 6920OEM1/2 is the model numbers. The advertising isn’t clear, and so the “deal” isn’t much of a deal after all.

Ho Ho Ho.

Here's a pic of the magwell thing:

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Does look kind of fucky

For sure. Looks like they left out a machining step there. Mine doesn't have that extra step down - just the usual single step down after the radius and then smooth all the way to the mag catch channel. That sucks :\.

Merry Christmas.

Entirely too clean and not enough Krylon.

Ha ha, so true! Guilty as charged.

***The above picture is NOT mine. I simply Photoshopped in some arrows and circled the area in question from the other poster.

Anyway, I just picked up a Colt M4 Carbine lower with a CR prefix from Brownells and I do NOT have these wonky step like tabs. I can clearly see where they were but they have been machined flat.

How was the quality on the rest of it?

For anyone who bought the upper/bcg/CH fron shark arms, did your bolts have the white dot and did your CH have the cage code? Mine did not. The keyhole upper was perfect though.

I'm a bit new, but my understanding is no dot and cage code does not necessarily mean it's not legit colt.

Thanks!

It's a "blemished" version of any of my other complete M4 Carbine and/or M4A1 Carbine LE6920 rifle lowers.

Comparing it to my factory built LE6920 M4 Carbine marked rifle, the only differences I see are that the one from Brownell's has some engraving issues on the word "COLT" on the logo as many have mentioned, which I was expecting when I ordered it. Also it has a CR prefix for the serial which seems to be in a slightly different font than any of the rest of the engraving. It's almost like the lowers were engraved and stamped first and then at some point the serial numbers were added pre-Anodizing.

Both my factory LE6920 and the Brownells lower have the COLT pony and globe logo and the Colt Defense Hardford CONN marking "engraved". Then the M4 Carbine CAL 5.56MM, the SAFE and FIRE are stamped. The LE and CR serial are also engraved.

I've seen some people point out that the finishing machine work on the Brownells Colt lower is rough. Um, my factory rifle looks the same. They apparently do not clean up the inside of the trigger guard or back curve above the grip area from what I've seen. They are building Mil-Spec work rifles, not show guns.

I will say though that the lower from Brownells was pretty beaten to shit as far as scratches, out of the box. It came in a factory box from Colt but it has marks all over it like it had been thrown in a bin with 100 other lowers as "blemishes" that they let stock up until they had enough to do something with them. I was totally NOT concerned about this either as my factory built rifle looked like this within a couple of range trips after being banged around.

As far as the internals and other parts, the LPK was the same between factory built rifle and the Brownells Colt lower, so was the buffer and buffer tube. I can't really say much about the stock though, my factory built Colt rifle had a Rogers Super Stock on it and this Brownells lower has a LE style stock with no real factory markings.

I mean really if you are a cloner, who gives a shit. I toss paint on my guns, I use my guns, I don't own safe queens.

The big plus to ordering one of these lowers from Brownell's is that they have never been barreled so you can swap out the buffer/stock for something like the Shockwave pistol brace for an Mk18 build until you get stamp or even if you never intend to do an SBR. As far as I know this is the only source for factory Colt M4 Carbine marked lowers that can legally be built into a "pistol" or "firearm" configuration.

Some of my Colt lowers for comparison...

Brownells CR serial prefix marked Colt M4 Carbine Lower

Ignore the trigger, I swapped out the factory FCG for an SSA-E and I also installed a Colt factory A1 grip along with the KAK/Shockwave setup.





Factory built Colt M4 Carbine LE6920





Factory built Colt M4A1 Carbine LE6920

On the new lowers, the roll mark is pressed in, and all of the other markings are laser engraved.  The laser engravings look different, as there is no displaced metal from the stamping process.

Not a bad way to do things, just different.