Owning page 7 of this trainwreck.  No edit

Here's a good one: Human auto sear: Have your buddy hold your rifle at the hip.  You stand behind him in a close, yet totally heterosexual way.  You aim the rifle, and bite his ear (again, in a non-gay way) which causes him to begin bump-firing.  Would the ear now become the trigger and your friend a contraband machinegun?

You know about how adding a motor to a BMF makes a machinegun. What about a hamster wheel? Does a piece of cheese become a trigger?

Fuck the ATF. Those pencil-necked peckerheads can choke on my peanut-filled shit.

You know what?  Fuck it.

I hereby proclaim a challenge.  I will give a team membership to the member who receives an actual ATF opinion on the most asinine, goofy, dumbshit way to make a non-machinegun  into a machinegun.

All submissions must be original.  The ones I listed are obviously not eligible (but I will be amused if I see one).  It must be at least as stupid as the hamster wheel.  Winner will be determined either by a poll or whichever one makes me laugh hardest.

Remember, it must be an ACTUAL ATF letter addressed to you and must be scanned and posted to qualify.  Any forgeries will result in a voodoo curse.

If the ATF says it's not a machinegun, it does not qualify for this contest, but I recommend you patent it, sink your life savings into it, sell a few thousand, and see what happens.

Heres the other trigger device that was banned right after the accelerator.

AW-SIM


AW-SIM #2

Quoted: You know what?  Fuck it. I hereby proclaim a challenge.  I will give a team membership to the member who receives an actual ATF opinion on the most asinine, goofy, dumbshit way to make a non-machinegun  into a machinegun. All submissions must be original.  The ones I listed are obviously not eligible (but I will be amused if I see one).  It must be at least as stupid as the hamster wheel.  Winner will be determined either by a poll or whichever one makes me laugh hardest. Remember, it must be an ACTUAL ATF letter addressed to you and must be scanned and posted to qualify.  Any forgeries will result in a voodoo curse. If the ATF says it's not a machinegun, it does not qualify for this contest, but I recommend you patent it, sink your life savings into it, sell a few thousand, and see what happens.

I don't know the names of all the devices, the one with two fingers when you spin the handle like a fishing reel the fingers activate the trigger, like a gatling gun.

I think I could build a device like that with a gear attached to a trigger, when the trigger is pulled the gear rotates and spins the fingers that would trigger the rifle trigger say 3 to 5 times, then a pawl would stop the gear and reset the trigger on my device, I would then move my finger from the trigger, and quickly pull it again. You could achive very fast 3-5 round burst that way. Would that work for you?    

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Letter I am composing:   Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Firearms Technology Branch 650 Massachusetts Avenue, NW. Room 6450 Washington, DC 20226 Dear Sir, <snip> Any thoughts? Throw the letter in the trash and forget about it. Nothing good ever came from a lay person sending a letter to the ATF for opinion. Experts have difficulty succeeding. Issues like this need to be carefully crafted based on research of precedents. This is a large Federal Bureaucracy and just because there is "debate on several forums" is not cause to ask them to step in and issue a ruling we may all regret later. Well, according to many people in this thread, it's perfectly OK for a non-involved person to send a letter or a firearm to ATF tech branch and get someone thrown under the bus. I say send your letter and see if we can get the HellFire and Tac Trigger pulled off the market like Bill's device. Let's do it! After all, those devices make dangerous machine guns out of ordinary semi-auto guns. Maybe if all those people get the same letter Bill's customers did, we'll have a different outcome. Honestly, I don't think your letter is that extreme. I'd send it. ATF has written so many letters that contradict themselves, if it ever goes to court an honest judge will laugh at them. I agree CaptainPooby. After all, I've been told countless times and seen many posts encouraging people both here and at other forums that people had a RIGHT to send in another letter to get their own classification because supposedly (and people quote it as if it were law though it isn't) the BATFE approval letters are only good for who they are addressed to right? While you are at it, ask them if the wording of their ruling that describes what their NEWLY made up version of a machine gun is which says..."once the trigger is pulled, it initiates a sequence of automatic fire that continues until the finger is removed or the magazine is empty." if this means if you vertically bumpfire your ruger 10/22 by letting gravity and recoil operate it, if that means your ruger 10/22 is a machine gun because according to the wording of their 2006-02 ruling it says it is a machine gun because once you allow gravity to pull the trigger it initiates a sequence of automatic fire that continues until the finger is removed or the magazine is empty does it not????? I saw posts here over a year ago encouraging people to send in for their own approval letters on my device. What is good for the goose is good for the gander isn't it readers??? Or is that only reserved to cause trouble for people that some think are greedy and taking advantage of a "captive"market that is not captive at all since people can buy many different kinds of rapid fire firearm devices besides mine or if they weren't so cheap and they wanted rapid fire they could buy a real machine gun instead of being so very cheap as to complain about my device which was a fraction of what a real mg cost. I know, maybe if I and other manufacturers who people complained about the price of our products just gave anyone who was too cheap to buy it but wanted to complain about it anyway, one for FREE, yeah that's the ticket, maybe then they won't illogically complain then and call us greedy and incorrectly state that they are a captive market when they could buy a bmf activator, hellfire, hellstorm, gat or tac trigger devices or even heavens forbid, a real machine gun proving they weren't a captive buying audience to me at all. In the future, all manufacturers should let uninformed, ignorant, patent infringing threatening, people who know nothing about their corporation or its costs, and who complain about their product's price, set the price for what they should sell their products for. After all those complaining people know best and that is the way to run a good business and free enterprise at work. I love it when illogic is so easily dispelled and exposed. I realized, around the time I had to send my spring in, that my 10/22 has a light enough trigger that if installed in a spring-less Accelerator, it would probably "fire faster" if aimed straight downward. Would the ATF consider this a "Gravity-operated" machinegun?  How about BMF or Gat-trigger with a weighted string attached?  Would that be a "gravity-operated windup" machinegun? What about hanging my match-triggered AR by sticking a broomstick in the trigger guard? I recall some enterprising individual making an open-bolt tube-gun, like a Sten with no trigger assembly, on the assumption that it was not a machinegun because there was no "trigger" to activate.  The ATF opined that the bolt handle constituted the trigger. Does this ruling apply to "Bump sticks"? Considering I recall there being some Akins-related stink raised about them, and saw several in the possession of Mr. Bowers, which he wasn't in the mood to talk about. I could go on for days about Rube Goldberg methods for making semi-auto guns shoot fast. Hey, I know: How about mounting a Winchester 94 in a spring assembly so the recoil drives the entire rifle back against a fixture that operates the lever.  At the end of the return stroke, the trigger is tripped.  Would this be a machinegun too?

Hi PromptCritical.

Good observations. But you know you don't even have to have your ruger 10/22 installed into a springless Akins Accelerator to bumpfire it vertically downward. All you have to do is take a factory ruger 10/22 that doesn't have an unreasonable trigger pull and point it downward and let gravity pull your finger against the trigger and it will bumpfire with the recoil bouncing up upward to reset the trigger and gravity pulling it downward to pull the trigger again. According to the words of the BATFE ruling it's a machine gun. Here's another way to do the same thing. Take a piece of rope and tie it to the bottom of a fence post tightly and then make a little loop in it so your barrel can fit into the loop but slide up and down freely. This is so the firearm will not pivot on the trigger and shoot other than downward. Then hammer a nail into the fencepost and place your trigger over the nail. Now lift the firearm so its weight and trigger is off the nail but the nail is still inside the trigger guard. Chamber a round and drop the firearm onto the nail. Your ruger 10/22 (or any semi auto rifle or shotgun for that matter) will bumpfire vertically after the trigger is as the BATFE ruling states.... "pulled" (instead of "functioned" as Federal law says) and it has now initiated a sequence of automatic fire that continues until the nail (finger) is removed or the magazine (ammunition feeding device) is empty. Once again, another example of how the BATFE 2006-02 ruling makes any semi automatic firearm a machine gun whether shooters and even the "experts" at BATFE realize it.

You mentioned about the winchester lever action using recoil to operate the lever. This was done by John Browning a long time ago as an experiment to make a lever action into a semi auto. If you can make a lever action into a semi auto, then as you observed, there isn't any reason why you couldn't make it work like my accelerator invention.
Once again, according to the BATFE 2006-02 ruling, your lever action winchester in what would then be an Akins Accelerator type rig, would be a machine gun.

I'm glad you and some of the people here realize and recognize what I have been trying to warn everyone about, which is that this illegal Federal firearms law violating BATFE ruling # 2006-02, outlaws all bump fire devices, bumpfiring itself and any firearm capable of bumpfiring. That means all semi automatic firearms. Even pistols, because without any attachments they can be bumpfired too with practice.

I WILL SAY IT AGAIN IN BOLD, THE ILLEGAL AND FEDERAL FIREARMS LAW VIOLATING BATFE RULING #2006-02 OUTLAWS ALL SEMI AUTOMATIC FIREARMS CAPABLE OF BUMPFIRING.  

Whether or not BATFE chooses to illegally and unfairly selectively enforce it or not is irrelevant. The fact is, that this ruling by the words of its banned mechanical operations, outlaws all semi autos capable of bumpfiring.

Where indeed is the outcry from our pro firearms organizations? Have the readers here who are members of any such organizations contacted and written those organizations to inform them of this and to ask what are they going to do about it?

Quoted:    Bill, I see the potential that bump-firing in general could impose on the firearms culture if some Anti-Gunner found out about this technique. Believe me I have received countless emails regarding the potential danger of my website, and my videos. Like you said before the BATF has approved, or has turned a blinds eye regarding the Hell Fire Trigger attachments for 20+ years. Bump firing has not changed until you came up with a revolutionary way harnessing the technique in a "simple" stock at the same time eliminating the technique totally. I merely conjured up a way to simplify, and eliminate the insane cost if the HellFire Trigger by attaching a rubber band to the trigger.     My issue is that you claim that the BATF 2006-2 ruling specifically includes in the text that bump firing is now illegal. When the last part of that ruling states: Held further, manufacture and distribution of any device described in this ruling must comply with all provisions of the NFA and the GCA, including 18 U.S.C. 922(o). Held, a device (consisting of a block replacing the original manufacturer’s V-Block of a Ruger 10/22 rifle with two attached rods approximately ¼ inch in diameter and approximately 6 inches in length; a second block, approximately 3 inches long, 1 ⅜ inches wide, and ¾ inch high, machined to allow the two guide rods of the first block to pass through; the second block supporting the guide rods and attached to the stock; using ¼ inch rods; metal washers; rubber and metal bushings; two collars with set screws; one coiled spring; C-clamps; a split ring; the two blocks assembled together with the - 3 - composite stock) that is designed to attach to a firearm and, when activated by a single pull of the trigger, initiates an automatic firing cycle that continues until either the finger is released or the ammunition supply is exhausted, is a machinegun under the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. 5845(b), and the Gun Control Act, 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(23). The only device discribed in that ruling was sadly you accelerator.

This is the critical and pertinent language that makes all bumpfire devices and bumpfiring  itself without any devices and all semi automatic firearms capable of bumpfiring illegal according to the 2006-02 BATFE ruling....." when activated by a single pull of the trigger, initiates an automatic firing cycle that continues until either the finger is released or the ammunition supply is exhausted, is a machinegun under the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. 5845(b), and the Gun Control Act, 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(23)."

Quoted: Quoted:    Bill, I see the potential that bump-firing in general could impose on the firearms culture if some Anti-Gunner found out about this technique. Believe me I have received countless emails regarding the potential danger of my website, and my videos. Like you said before the BATF has approved, or has turned a blinds eye regarding the Hell Fire Trigger attachments for 20+ years. Bump firing has not changed until you came up with a revolutionary way harnessing the technique in a "simple" stock at the same time eliminating the technique totally. I merely conjured up a way to simplify, and eliminate the insane cost if the HellFire Trigger by attaching a rubber band to the trigger.     My issue is that you claim that the BATF 2006-2 ruling specifically includes in the text that bump firing is now illegal. When the last part of that ruling states: Held further, manufacture and distribution of any device described in this ruling must comply with all provisions of the NFA and the GCA, including 18 U.S.C. 922(o). Held, a device (consisting of a block replacing the original manufacturer’s V-Block of a Ruger 10/22 rifle with two attached rods approximately ¼ inch in diameter and approximately 6 inches in length; a second block, approximately 3 inches long, 1 ⅜ inches wide, and ¾ inch high, machined to allow the two guide rods of the first block to pass through; the second block supporting the guide rods and attached to the stock; using ¼ inch rods; metal washers; rubber and metal bushings; two collars with set screws; one coiled spring; C-clamps; a split ring; the two blocks assembled together with the - 3 - composite stock) that is designed to attach to a firearm and, when activated by a single pull of the trigger, initiates an automatic firing cycle that continues until either the finger is released or the ammunition supply is exhausted, is a machinegun under the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. 5845(b), and the Gun Control Act, 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(23). The only device discribed in that ruling was sadly you accelerator. This is the critical and pertinent language that makes all bumpfire devices and bumpfiring  itself without any devices and all semi automatic firearms capable of bumpfiring illegal according to the 2006-02 BATFE ruling....." when activated by a single pull of the trigger, initiates an automatic firing cycle that continues until either the finger is released or the ammunition supply is exhausted, is a machinegun under the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. 5845(b), and the Gun Control Act, 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(23)."

Finger.  The ruling says finger.  Would using my toe make it not a machinegun?  Maybe I should write the BATF asking if I was somehow able to jam my schlong in the trigger guard to "create an automatic firing cycle" if that would also constitute a machinegun.  

Maybe I just want to see a BATFE letter that includes the word "schlong".

I must apologize for attempting to make light of the situation.  The ability to laugh at the rampant stupidity exhibited by high level government officials is about the only thing keeping me off the rooftops...

"Incompetence, in sufficient quantity, is indistinguishable from malice."

There are contingency plans if fingers are declared "machine guns"...
...

Quoted: Quoted: You know what?  Fuck it. I hereby proclaim a challenge.  I will give a team membership to the member who receives an actual ATF opinion on the most asinine, goofy, dumbshit way to make a non-machinegun  into a machinegun. All submissions must be original.  The ones I listed are obviously not eligible (but I will be amused if I see one).  It must be at least as stupid as the hamster wheel.  Winner will be determined either by a poll or whichever one makes me laugh hardest. Remember, it must be an ACTUAL ATF letter addressed to you and must be scanned and posted to qualify.  Any forgeries will result in a voodoo curse. If the ATF says it's not a machinegun, it does not qualify for this contest, but I recommend you patent it, sink your life savings into it, sell a few thousand, and see what happens. I don't know the names of all the devices, the one with two fingers when you spin the handle like a fishing reel the fingers activate the trigger, like a gatling gun. I think I could build a device like that with a gear attached to a trigger, when the trigger is pulled the gear rotates and spins the fingers that would trigger the rifle trigger say 3 to 5 times, then a pawl would stop the gear and reset the trigger on my device, I would then move my finger from the trigger, and quickly pull it again. You could achive very fast 3-5 round burst that way. Would that work for you?

Good thinking. I had the same idea myself. I know exactly what you are describing. I believe it is a non explored legal grey area between crank firing and full auto. On the one hand you have a crankfire device that is (at  least for now) supposedly legal. On the other hand you are now operating a trigger with a series of separate "FUNCTIONS" (as Federal law states) that spins that crankfire device a partial revolution and fires more than one shot for each separate function of that trigger. I envisioned a trigger with a spring loaded ratcheting bar with gear teeth that engages and moves a gear attached to the crankfire device's spindle to spin the crankfire device.

The critical question here is....by pulling the trigger, releasing the trigger and then pulling it again to keep the crankfire device going, are you operating the crank with a continuous motion of your trigger finger, or are you causing more than one shot to be fired by each separate motion of your finger to "FUNCTION" the trigger. It could be viewed or interpreted either way. In truth it is both. I believe we all know which way the BATFE would view it. They would say it was illegal because it was both methods, and therefore HALF illegal and therefore illegal. Then you are back to the only non NFA rapid fire thing according to the BATFE being legal, which is continuous motion crank firing.

I came to the above conclusions when the BATFE ruling first came out.

It also gave me several ideas.

Idea #1.

Remember the old manual foot pedal powered singer sewing machines of bygone days?

Imagine using a foot pedal system for a tripod mounted semi auto. What you would have to do is suspend the foot pedal so that it could traverse with the firearm yet you could still operate it with your foot or for that matter, both feet. You would construct a seat frame with the foot pedal attached to the seat frame and attach that seat/foot pedal frame to your firearm's tripod. When you traversed say your semi auto 1919a4 or whatever, your seat and the foot pedal or pedals would pivot and follow the firearms direction of traverse. You attach a rod to the pedals just like on the old sewing machines, so when your foot or feet work the pedals there is a disk attached to the pedals that has a hole in it with a rod inserted into the hole and traveling upward where the other end of the rod is inserted into another disk that is attached to the spindle of your crankfire device attached to your trigger. You could remove the crankfire device's handle or leave it on for use by hand, either way. Now you sit in your pivoting seat tripod assembly and fire your crankfired semi auto using a human powered crankfire device run by your foot pedals. There is nothing in the law to preclude a firearm being operated and or fired by someone's feet.

Idea #2.

You use the principle of a train locomotive wheel and struts rods for that wheel. You attach a mini dual thimble thumb operated (left and right thumbs) double handle crank to the back of your say... semi auto 1919a4 type receiver. You grasp both left and right vertical hand grips and place both your thumbs into the thimble recesses on the ends of the double ended crank handle. This way you can grasp both handles and still operate the crank handle using both your thumbs. This does away with having to have one hand free to operate the crank and you can use both hands to grasp the handles and use your thumbs to operate the crankfire device. Attached to the crank is a wheel that has holes in it at different locations on the wheel opposite of each other. You place your strut rods into those holes putting the strut rods on either side of the wheel. We will come back to the double ended crank handle and its wheel in a moment. Now, on both sides of the spindle of your crankfire device (that has had its handle removed and replaced with your double ended handle at the rear of the firearm's receiver), said spindle of the body of the crankfire device being attached at the trigger area, you attach two more small wheels to the opposite sides of that spindle. Now you have your crankfire device in your trigger area with two wheels attached to each opposite side of the crankfire device's spindle. You drill a hole in each wheel attached to the spindle. You place those holes so they are opposite each other. Now you attach your two strut rods coming from the wheel that is attached to your thimble thumbcrank handle, into those two wheels attached to the spindle of the crankfire device body that spins cams to operate the trigger. The reason for making the holes opposite each other on these wheels is so as one rod reaches the end of its travel and before it starts to bind since it is no longer rotating but is pushing forward at the end of its travel and cannot rotate anymore with the wheel, the OTHER strut rod on the other wheel overcomes that bind point on the other wheel since the other strut rod is at a different hole position on the other wheel and it carries the opposite wheel past its point of horizontal resistance so that it now can rotate again. In short, each wheel attached to the crankfire body spindle pulls the other wheel past that resistance point by virtue of the fact that each wheel has the strut rods attached at opposite points. You could add a weight to each wheel like a train locomotive has to overcome that aforementioned resistance also, but it may not be necessary.

Now what you can do is sit back, grasp both handles with both hands, insert your thumbs into the double ended mini thimble thumb crank and operate your CRANKFIRED semi automatic firearm using the principle of a train locomotive's wheels.

Idea #3.

No crankfire, no bumpfire, just normal triggers. Two of them. Same scenario as before using say....a semi auto 1919a4 or similar firearm. You attach two separate triggers to the same rear receiver area that you would attach the double ended mini thimble thumb crank in Idea #2. These triggers each have separate transfer bar rods that pivot and go forward and pivot again to push back on opposite sides of the factory trigger,i.e. one rod on the left and one rod on the right engaging the factory trigger. Not as fast as crankfiring or bumpfiring but the exertion of functioning one trigger repeatedly to fire fast is now spread out over two fingers or thumbs that you would use alternately and rapidly to effect rapid fire. The triggers could either be typical index finger type triggers that you pull, or butterfly type thumb triggers that you push. You could also increase your firing rate by making your FACTORY trigger able to fire when it is functioned to the rear and also when it comes back forward since BATFE has ruled that a trigger that fires once for a rearward function and once for a forward function to be legal (in their opinion). If you did this you would be able to again grasp both vertical handles with both hands and fire pretty rapidly using either the index fingers of both hands or the thumbs of both hands to function two separate triggers that then used transfer bar struts to function the factory trigger that had been modified to fire once on its rearward travel and once on its forward travel. Totally legal standard trigger operation, but double triggers with an option to modify the factory trigger to fire on the rearward AND forward movement of the factory trigger.  

So here's three ideas of things that at least for now would be legal non NFA rapid fire methods. Now one might logically think horray, at least we can do that. NOT SO.

You still need a semi automatic firearm to do that. ONCE AGAIN, the illegal, Federal firearms law violating, 2006-02 BATFE ruling, bans any firearm capable of bumpfiring by the language of that stupidly written ruling. That means according to the ruling any semi automatic firearm capable of bumpfiring is illegal and you can't have them to put a crankfire on or to use standard but double triggers on.

Whether or not the BATFE selectively enforces this ruling or not, the fact is that this ruling bans semi automatic firearms capable of bumpfiring, i.e. almost all semi automatic firearms so therefore any ideas for non NFA rapid fire devices are moot since the firearms you would be using them on have been banned by the language of the BATFE ruling if they want to enforce that ruling as it is written.


In short, according to the illegal BATFE 2006-02 ruling, we can't do anything reagrding non NFA rapid fire because our semi automatic firearms are now illegal even though the BATFE hasn't called for them to be turned in......YET.

UNDERSTAND?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted:    Bill, I see the potential that bump-firing in general could impose on the firearms culture if some Anti-Gunner found out about this technique. Believe me I have received countless emails regarding the potential danger of my website, and my videos. Like you said before the BATF has approved, or has turned a blinds eye regarding the Hell Fire Trigger attachments for 20+ years. Bump firing has not changed until you came up with a revolutionary way harnessing the technique in a "simple" stock at the same time eliminating the technique totally. I merely conjured up a way to simplify, and eliminate the insane cost if the HellFire Trigger by attaching a rubber band to the trigger.     My issue is that you claim that the BATF 2006-2 ruling specifically includes in the text that bump firing is now illegal. When the last part of that ruling states: Held further, manufacture and distribution of any device described in this ruling must comply with all provisions of the NFA and the GCA, including 18 U.S.C. 922(o). Held, a device (consisting of a block replacing the original manufacturer’s V-Block of a Ruger 10/22 rifle with two attached rods approximately ¼ inch in diameter and approximately 6 inches in length; a second block, approximately 3 inches long, 1 ⅜ inches wide, and ¾ inch high, machined to allow the two guide rods of the first block to pass through; the second block supporting the guide rods and attached to the stock; using ¼ inch rods; metal washers; rubber and metal bushings; two collars with set screws; one coiled spring; C-clamps; a split ring; the two blocks assembled together with the - 3 - composite stock) that is designed to attach to a firearm and, when activated by a single pull of the trigger, initiates an automatic firing cycle that continues until either the finger is released or the ammunition supply is exhausted, is a machinegun under the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. 5845(b), and the Gun Control Act, 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(23). The only device discribed in that ruling was sadly you accelerator. This is the critical and pertinent language that makes all bumpfire devices and bumpfiring  itself without any devices and all semi automatic firearms capable of bumpfiring illegal according to the 2006-02 BATFE ruling....." when activated by a single pull of the trigger, initiates an automatic firing cycle that continues until either the finger is released or the ammunition supply is exhausted, is a machinegun under the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. 5845(b), and the Gun Control Act, 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(23)." Finger.  The ruling says finger.  Would using my toe make it not a machinegun?  Maybe I should write the BATF asking if I was somehow able to jam my schlong in the trigger guard to "create an automatic firing cycle" if that would also constitute a machinegun.   Maybe I just want to see a BATFE letter that includes the word "schlong". I must apologize for attempting to make light of the situation.  The ability to laugh at the rampant stupidity exhibited by high level government officials is about the only thing keeping me off the rooftops... "Incompetence, in sufficient quantity, is indistinguishable from malice."

I know what you mean PromptCritical. It is the kind of absurdity and insanity and blantant tyranny that could lead one to babble incoherently and into rages of insane laughter. I only wish I COULD laugh about it. Not possible for me though. An illegal ruling that the language of bans all semi autos capable of bumpfiring is too dangerous to our rights and freedom to laugh at. Couple that with me having to deal with ignorance and stupidity of people writing about my corporation and what we should have done and shouldn't have done which is not relevant to this dangerous ruling and you can well imagine although I would like to find humor and laugh about it, I cannot.  

We have a fair amount of guys on this board that would happily and unquestioningly enforce such things.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You know what?  Fuck it. I hereby proclaim a challenge.  I will give a team membership to the member who receives an actual ATF opinion on the most asinine, goofy, dumbshit way to make a non-machinegun  into a machinegun. All submissions must be original.  The ones I listed are obviously not eligible (but I will be amused if I see one).  It must be at least as stupid as the hamster wheel.  Winner will be determined either by a poll or whichever one makes me laugh hardest. Remember, it must be an ACTUAL ATF letter addressed to you and must be scanned and posted to qualify.  Any forgeries will result in a voodoo curse. If the ATF says it's not a machinegun, it does not qualify for this contest, but I recommend you patent it, sink your life savings into it, sell a few thousand, and see what happens. I don't know the names of all the devices, the one with two fingers when you spin the handle like a fishing reel the fingers activate the trigger, like a gatling gun. I think I could build a device like that with a gear attached to a trigger, when the trigger is pulled the gear rotates and spins the fingers that would trigger the rifle trigger say 3 to 5 times, then a pawl would stop the gear and reset the trigger on my device, I would then move my finger from the trigger, and quickly pull it again. You could achive very fast 3-5 round burst that way. Would that work for you?     Good thinking. I had the same idea myself. I know exactly what you are describing. I believe it is a non explored legal grey area between crank firing and full auto. On the one hand you have a crankfire device that is (at  least for now) supposedly legal. On the other hand you are now operating a trigger with a series of separate "FUNCTIONS" (as Federal law states) that spins that crankfire device a partial revolution and fires more than one shot for each separate function of that trigger. I envisioned a trigger with a spring loaded ratcheting bar with gear teeth that engages and moves a gear attached to the crankfire device's spindle to spin the crankfire device. The critical question here is....by pulling the trigger, releasing the trigger and then pulling it again to keep the crankfire device going, are you operating the crank with a continuous motion of your trigger finger, or are you causing more than one shot to be fired by each separate motion of your finger to "FUNCTION" the trigger. It could be viewed or interpreted either way. In truth it is both. I believe we all know which way the BATFE would view it. They would say it was illegal because it was both methods, and therefore HALF illegal and therefore illegal. Then you are back to the only non NFA rapid fire thing according to the BATFE being legal, which is continuous motion crank firing. I came to the above conclusions when the BATFE ruling first came out. It also gave me several ideas. Idea #1. Remember the old manual foot pedal powered singer sewing machines of bygone days? Imagine using a foot pedal system for a tripod mounted semi auto. What you would have to do is suspend the foot pedal so that it could traverse with the firearm yet you could still operate it with your foot or for that matter, both feet. You would construct a seat frame with the foot pedal attached to the seat frame and attach that seat/foot pedal frame to your firearm's tripod. When you traversed say your semi auto 1919a4 or whatever, your seat and the foot pedal or pedals would pivot and follow the firearms direction of traverse. You attach a rod to the pedals just like on the old sewing machines, so when your foot or feet work the pedals there is a disk attached to the pedals that has a hole in it with a rod inserted into the hole and traveling upward where the other end of the rod is inserted into another disk that is attached to the spindle of your crankfire device attached to your trigger. You could remove the crankfire device's handle or leave it on for use by hand, either way. Now you sit in your pivoting seat tripod assembly and fire your crankfired semi auto using a human powered crankfire device run by your foot pedals. There is nothing in the law to preclude a firearm being operated and or fired by someone's feet. Idea #2. You use the principle of a train locomotive wheel and struts rods for that wheel. You attach a mini dual thimble thumb operated (left and right thumbs) double handle crank to the back of your say... semi auto 1919a4 type receiver. You grasp both left and right vertical hand grips and place both your thumbs into the thimble recesses on the ends of the double ended crank handle. This way you can grasp both handles and still operate the crank handle using both your thumbs. This does away with having to have one hand free to operate the crank and you can use both hands to grasp the handles and use your thumbs to operate the crankfire device. Attached to the crank is a wheel that has holes in it at different locations on the wheel opposite of each other. You place your strut rods into those holes putting the strut rods on either side of the wheel. We will come back to the double ended crank handle and its wheel in a moment. Now, on both sides of the spindle of your crankfire device (that has had its handle removed and replaced with your double ended handle at the rear of the firearm's receiver), said spindle of the body of the crankfire device being attached at the trigger area, you attach two more small wheels to the opposite sides of that spindle. Now you have your crankfire device in your trigger area with two wheels attached to each opposite side of the crankfire device's spindle. You drill a hole in each wheel attached to the spindle. You place those holes so they are opposite each other. Now you attach your two strut rods coming from the wheel that is attached to your thimble thumbcrank handle, into those two wheels attached to the spindle of the crankfire device body that spins cams to operate the trigger. The reason for making the holes opposite each other on these wheels is so as one rod reaches the end of its travel and before it starts to bind since it is no longer rotating but is pushing forward at the end of its travel and cannot rotate anymore with the wheel, the OTHER strut rod on the other wheel overcomes that bind point on the other wheel since the other strut rod is at a different hole position on the other wheel and it carries the opposite wheel past its point of horizontal resistance so that it now can rotate again. In short, each wheel attached to the crankfire body spindle pulls the other wheel past that resistance point by virtue of the fact that each wheel has the strut rods attached at opposite points. You could add a weight to each wheel like a train locomotive has to overcome that aforementioned resistance also, but it may not be necessary. Now what you can do is sit back, grasp both handles with both hands, insert your thumbs into the double ended mini thimble thumb crank and operate your CRANKFIRED semi automatic firearm using the principle of a train locomotive's wheels. Idea #3. No crankfire, no bumpfire, just normal triggers. Two of them. Same scenario as before using say....a semi auto 1919a4 or similar firearm. You attach two separate triggers to the same rear receiver area that you would attach the double ended mini thimble thumb crank in Idea #2. These triggers each have separate transfer bar rods that pivot and go forward and pivot again to push back on opposite sides of the factory trigger,i.e. one rod on the left and one rod on the right engaging the factory trigger. Not as fast as crankfiring or bumpfiring but the exertion of functioning one trigger repeatedly to fire fast is now spread out over two fingers or thumbs that you would use alternately and rapidly to effect rapid fire. The triggers could either be typical index finger type triggers that you pull, or butterfly type thumb triggers that you push. You could also increase your firing rate by making your FACTORY trigger able to fire when it is functioned to the rear and also when it comes back forward since BATFE has ruled that a trigger that fires once for a rearward function and once for a forward function to be legal (in their opinion). If you did this you would be able to again grasp both vertical handles with both hands and fire pretty rapidly using either the index fingers of both hands or the thumbs of both hands to function two separate triggers that then used transfer bar struts to function the factory trigger that had been modified to fire once on its rearward travel and once on its forward travel. Totally legal standard trigger operation, but double triggers with an option to modify the factory trigger to fire on the rearward AND forward movement of the factory trigger.   So here's three ideas of things that at least for now would be legal non NFA rapid fire methods. Now one might logically think horray, at least we can do that. NOT SO. You still need a semi automatic firearm to do that. ONCE AGAIN, the illegal, Federal firearms law violating, 2006-02 BATFE ruling, bans any firearm capable of bumpfiring by the language of that stupidly written ruling. That means according to the ruling any semi automatic firearm capable of bumpfiring is illegal and you can't have them to put a crankfire on or to use standard but double triggers on. Whether or not the BATFE selectively enforces this ruling or not, the fact is that this ruling bans semi automatic firearms capable of bumpfiring, i.e. almost all semi automatic firearms so therefore any ideas for non NFA rapid fire devices are moot since the firearms you would be using them on have been banned by the language of the BATFE ruling if they want to enforce that ruling as it is written. In short, according to the illegal BATFE 2006-02 ruling, we can't do anything reagrding non NFA rapid fire because our semi automatic firearms are now illegal even though the BATFE hasn't called for them to be turned in......YET. UNDERSTAND?

Amazing, I was talking to a friend last night about just that, like my Mom's old sewing machine peddle.      

Francis Warin went through this with ATF back in the 80's.  Except he was willing to face criminal charges.  He has repeatedly tried to get ATF to prosecute him but they will not as they know it would mean an all out challenge of the second amendment.  The man is harmless and ATF knows it.  He is willing to put his life on the line for the second amendment and ATF has no power over him.  They can't bankrupt him and he is not afraid of facing jail as they have jailed him before as well.  When it comes down to going to court, ATF backs down.  Francis is a gun designer, making a living out of making firearms.  He is not just a hobbyist.

Quoted: I realized, around the time I had to send my spring in, that my 10/22 has a light enough trigger that if installed in a spring-less Accelerator, it would probably "fire faster" if aimed straight downward. Would the ATF consider this a "Gravity-operated" machinegun?  How about BMF or Gat-trigger with a weighted string attached?  Would that be a "gravity-operated windup" machinegun? What about hanging my match-triggered AR by sticking a broomstick in the trigger guard? Does this ruling apply to "Bump sticks"? Considering I recall there being some Akins-related stink raised about them, and saw several in the possession of Mr. Bowers, which he wasn't in the mood to talk about.

You wouldn't even need to put your 10/22 into my now springless accelerator stock to bumpfire it using gravity. You can do that via gravity in the ruger's factory stock. Yep, according to the BATFE language in their ruling, it's a machine gun therefore possessing your factory bone stock ruger 10/22 is illegal according to that ruling's description of what is mechanically banned.

Gatling style crankfire devices that are supposedly legal (for now) like the bmf activator and gat crankfire trigger devices, would become machine guns according to the BATFE ruling if you wound a string around the spindle and attached a weight to the string so it would spin the crank when you dropped the weight. The BATFE would say the action of dropping the weight would become the trigger and as their ruling says....once the trigger was functioned (ruling says "pulled) it initiated a sequence of automatic fire that continued until the finger was removed or the magazine was empty. Yep, once again, according to the BATFE ruling they would both be machine guns.

There would be no finger to remove in this case, but the BATFE would not let reality and the facts confuse them from their goal, they would still call it a machine gun. (finger removed from what? Their ruling does not say. The finger is totally removed from the trigger on my accelerator for each shot).

Hanging your semi auto AR15 by its trigger on a broomstick along with using any kind of "bumpstick" would also make your AR15 and the "bumpstick" (separately by even by itself like my accelerator stock) machine guns according to the BATFE ruling. Oh wait! You don't even need to do that, your semi auto AR15 is ALREADY a machine gun according to the ruling and doesn't need a broomstick or "bumpstick" to make it one according to the language of the BATFE 2006-02 ruling which by its language describes how if your AR15 is capable of bumpfiring it is a machine gun.

Same with the lever action winchester you described putting into an accelerator rig that used the system similar to what John Browning used to make one semi auto so long ago.

Yes, everything you described above in your post would be a machine gun according to the language of the BATFE 2006-02 ruling.

Quoted: Francis Warin went through this with ATF back in the 80's.  Except he was willing to face criminal charges.  He has repeatedly tried to get ATF to prosecute him but they will not as they know it would mean an all out challenge of the second amendment.  The man is harmless and ATF knows it.  He is willing to put his life on the line for the second amendment and ATF has no power over him.  They can't bankrupt him and he is not afraid of facing jail as they have jailed him before as well.  When it comes down to going to court, ATF backs down.  Francis is a gun designer, making a living out of making firearms.  He is not just a hobbyist.

I would very much like to contact and speak with Francis Warin. Any idea of how I could do that? Does he have a website or do you know the name of any company he is with? Any way to find him?

Have you guys seen this one yet?This one I hear works flawless.Its a homemade job.

Quoted: Have you guys seen this one yet?This one I hear works flawless.Its a homemade job. img413.imageshack.us/img413/6161/bumppics16jkpa8.jpg img185.imageshack.us/img185/3779/bumppics20mbbn8.jpg

I think that is the one I referenced above.  Maybe Bill has some info on it.

Quoted: Quoted: Have you guys seen this one yet?This one I hear works flawless.Its a homemade job. img413.imageshack.us/img413/6161/bumppics16jkpa8.jpg</a> img185.imageshack.us/img185/3779/bumppics20mbbn8.jpg</a> I think that is the one I referenced above.  Maybe Bill has some info on it.

OMG  That is sweet.      



They are going to be on this site like flys on shit.      

For the record. I do not own a welder or cutting torch.    

Quoted: Quoted: Have you guys seen this one yet?This one I hear works flawless.Its a homemade job. img413.imageshack.us/img413/6161/bumppics16jkpa8.jpg</a> img185.imageshack.us/img185/3779/bumppics20mbbn8.jpg</a> I think that is the one I referenced above.  Maybe Bill has some info on it.

Yes I know about that device. Quite some time ago Mr Bowers told me he contacted the owner regarding it infringing upon my patent applications and acquired it from him. Mr Bowers told me he paid him for it with Akins Group Inc funds and he agreed not to make any more of them. That is what Mr Bowers told me that happened and I do not want be baited by anyone wanting to argue with me about whether or not in their uninformed non patent attorney opinion it violated my patent applications or not. The facts are Mr Bowers told me the owner was contacted, then Mr Bowers unnecessarily reimbursed him for his efforts and bought the device from him. Beyond that I do not know anything further. I never spoke with the man and only know about this from what Mr Bowers told me. To my knowledge Mr Bowers still has the device since I do not have it. I have never seen it physically, only in photos. Mr Bowers would know more about this than I. Go to subguns.com and ask him what he did with it. It belongs to Akins Group Inc but Mr Bowers did not return it to me when he resigned from the corporation. It should be returned to Akins Group Inc since the corporation paid for it according to our photocopy of the check we gave him and receipts that I have.

I think all of this pissing and moaning, is going to get everything outlawed!

Bill, I was thinking about acquiring one of your devices shortly before it was outlawed.  Too bad I didn't, because now I cannot join what I imagine are hundreds of others civilly disobeying the tyrants at the ATF.

You are willing to risk a lot for the good of law-abiding gun owners, and for that, I salute you, sir.  Good luck, and Godspeed.

This needs to be tacked and disseminated to other firearms boards.

Quoted: Bill, I was thinking about acquiring one of your devices shortly before it was outlawed.  Too bad I didn't, because now I cannot join what I imagine are hundreds of others civilly disobeying the tyrants at the ATF. You are willing to risk a lot for the good of law-abiding gun owners, and for that, I salute you, sir.  Good luck, and Godspeed. This needs to be tacked and disseminated to other firearms boards.

Thanks FortyFiveAutomatic.

Quoted: I think all of this pissing and moaning, is going to get everything outlawed!

Whose "pissing and moaning" are you speaking of coltshorty14? Do you mean the BATFE pissing and moaning through their illegal and tyrannical ruling? Or do you mean the legitimate discussion by myself and others of what the BATFE's tyrannical and illegal actions are?

Are you intimating that we should not exercise our first amendment rights for fear we may lose other rights? If we just keep silent perhaps the BATFE will let you keep your brand of guns you like huh? Do you really believe that?? Throughout history has silence ever dissuaded further encroachment by tyranny? All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do (or say) nothing.

If you only become concerned and begin to "piss and moan" yourself when it affects you, then there will be no one left to aid you since you were silent when they needed you.

What you may not realize is that this ruling affects you right now. It outlaws any semi automatic firearm capable of bumpfiring whether the BATFE decides to selectively enforce it or not.

So get on the bus with the all too few patriots or join the ranks of the lukewarm gunners. There are lots of them.

Quoted: Here's a good one: Human auto sear: Have your buddy hold your rifle at the hip.  You stand behind him in a close, yet totally heterosexual way.  You aim the rifle, and bite his ear (again, in a non-gay way) which causes him to begin bump-firing.  Would the ear now become the trigger and your friend a contraband machinegun? You know about how adding a motor to a BMF makes a machinegun. What about a hamster wheel? Does a piece of cheese become a trigger? Fuck the ATF. Those pencil-necked peckerheads can choke on my peanut-filled shit.

This, is perhaps the greatest post in ARFcom history.


Not sure which part I laughed at harder.

Quoted: Quoted: Here's a good one: Human auto sear: Have your buddy hold your rifle at the hip.  You stand behind him in a close, yet totally heterosexual way.  You aim the rifle, and bite his ear (again, in a non-gay way) which causes him to begin bump-firing.  Would the ear now become the trigger and your friend a contraband machinegun? You know about how adding a motor to a BMF makes a machinegun. What about a hamster wheel? Does a piece of cheese become a trigger? Fuck the ATF. Those pencil-necked peckerheads can choke on my peanut-filled shit. This, is perhaps the greatest post in ARFcom history. Not sure which part I laughed at harder.

I agree, a most excellent post by PromptCritical. Prompt not only understands the BATFE injustice and tyranny going on without getting bogged down in other bs issues not pertinent to this tyranny, but he is able to add some cynical humor to it. The definition of a cynic is a disillusioned idealist. That sums me up too.

Concerning crankfire devices and the restrictions BATFE has on them like not allowing a motor to be attached and that they must only be human operated.....Allow me to add a few additions.

PromptCritical, if the cheese is now the trigger, is the hamster now the sear? Or is the hamster the trigger and the cheese a BATFE ruled "willful intent"?

How about a wind powered pinwheel attached to the crankfire device spindle. That way the BATFE can rule that the wind is a machine gun when it turns the pinwheel to operate the crankfire device and fire the firearm. Perhaps if I dropped my shorts and broke wind against the pinwheel, the BATFE could rule the pizza I had the day before was a machine gun. I'll bet acting director of BATFE Michael J. Sullivan could operate this one real well. Would my argument that the "wind" was from and part of my body and therefore a legal human body method of turning the crank prevail, or would the BATFE attorneys argue that once the wind was out of my body I no longer had "conscious" control over it and therefore the wind is guilty of non human powering a crankfire device? If they charged the wind with being a machine gun would they also charge me under the RICO act for conspiring and encouraging the wind to go in the direction of the pinwheel? Would "fartfiring" a pinwheel adapted crankfire device be legal with one long continuous rip or would  you have to make each rip separate with a pause in between for your anus to reset? Anyone want to write a submission letter to BATFE asking for a classification on fartfiring?

Here's another one. Suppose I rigged a funnel over a mini water wheel that was attached to the spindle of a crankfire device. Similar to a miniature water powered wheel from an old pioneer flour mill. Then I load and chamber the firearm and set it outside just before a bad rainstorm. When the rainwater collected into the large funnel and came out the small hole against the water wheel slats and spun the crankfire device, then the BATFE could say that water is a machine gun. Sure go ahead and laugh at the absurdity, but technically even more realistic and feasible than the "fartfire". This is no more absurd than the BATFE saying my stock is a machine gun. Well, maybe a little, but not by much.

Here's another one. Suppose I got one of those white honey bee boxes that bees collect in to make honey and beeswax. I rig up a wheel attached to a crankfire device spindle and position the 1 o'clock through 3 o'clock section of the wheel so only that section is within the bee box. Then I make sure the wheel can turn freely. When the bees build beewax nests filled with honey into that section of the wheel it will drop downward due to gravity and turn the crankfire spindle. A delayed reaction, gravity operated, beeswax and honey powered crankfire machine gun.

Here's another one. I hook up a very large and powerful PA audio speaker so that when it vibrates with sound, it vibrates against a lever that acts as a transfer bar to function the trigger. Then I hook a microphone up to a powerful amp and the amp to the speaker.
I place this in a location sure to have loud sounds at some time during the day. The BATFE could rule that sound has now become a machine gun and my microphone the trigger.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Here's a good one: Human auto sear: Have your buddy hold your rifle at the hip.  You stand behind him in a close, yet totally heterosexual way.  You aim the rifle, and bite his ear (again, in a non-gay way) which causes him to begin bump-firing.  Would the ear now become the trigger and your friend a contraband machinegun? You know about how adding a motor to a BMF makes a machinegun. What about a hamster wheel? Does a piece of cheese become a trigger? Fuck the ATF. Those pencil-necked peckerheads can choke on my peanut-filled shit. This, is perhaps the greatest post in ARFcom history. Not sure which part I laughed at harder. I agree, a most excellent post by PromptCritical. Prompt not only understands the BATFE injustice and tyranny going on without getting bogged down in other bs issues not pertinent to this tyranny, but he is able to add some cynical humor to it. The definition of a cynic is a disillusioned idealist. That sums me up too. Concerning human powered crankfire devices and the restrictions BATFE has on them like not allowing a motor to be attached.....Allow me to add a few additions. PromptCritical, if the cheese is now the trigger, is the hamster now the sear? Or is the hamster the trigger and the cheese a BATFE ruled "willful intent"? How about a wind powered pinwheel attached to the crankfire device spindle. That way the BATFE can rule that the wind is a machine gun when it turns the pinwheel to operate the crankfire device and fire the firearm. Perhaps if I dropped my shorts and broke wind against the pinwheel, the BATFE could rule the pizza I had the day before was a machine gun. Would "fartfiring" a crankfire be legal with one long continuous rip or would  you have to make each rip separate with a pause in between for your anus to reset? Anyone want to write a submission letter to BATFE asking for a classification on fartfiring? Here's another one. Suppose I rigged a funnel over a mini water wheel that was attached to the spindle of a crankfire device. Similar to a miniature water powered wheel from an old pioneer flour mill. Then I load and chamber the firearm and set it outside just before a bad rainstorm. When the rainwater collected into the large funnel and came out the small hole against the water wheel slats and spun the crankfire device, then the BATFE could say that water was a machine gun. Sure go ahead and laugh at the absurdity, but technically even more realistic and feasible than the "fartfire". This is no more absurd than the BATFE saying my stock is a machine gun. Well, maybe a little, but not by much. Here's another one. Suppose I got one of those white honey bee boxes that bees collect in to make honey and beeswax. I rig up a wheel attached to a crankfire device spindle and position the 1 o'clock through 3 o'clock section of the wheel so only that section is within the bee box. Then I make sure the wheel can turn freely. When the bees build beewax nests filled with honey into that section of the wheel it will drop downward due to gravity and turn the crankfire spindle. A delayed reaction, gravity operated, beeswax and honey powered crankfire machine gun. Here's another one. I hook up a very large and powerful PA audio speaker so that when it vibrates with sound, it vibrates against a lever that acts as a transfer bar to function the trigger. Then I hook a microphone up to a powerful amp and the amp to the speaker. I place this in a location sure to have loud sounds at some time during the day. The BATFE could rule that sound has now become a machine gun and my microphone the trigger.

I think I just laughed so hard, juice came out of my nose....

And by juice, yes I mean beer.  LOL


I am WITH you Bill....all the way.  Just let me know.....if I fight for you....do I get to kill the English?  (In my most Irish/Scottish sounding Braveheart voice)

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Here's a good one: Human auto sear: Have your buddy hold your rifle at the hip.  You stand behind him in a close, yet totally heterosexual way.  You aim the rifle, and bite his ear (again, in a non-gay way) which causes him to begin bump-firing.  Would the ear now become the trigger and your friend a contraband machinegun? You know about how adding a motor to a BMF makes a machinegun. What about a hamster wheel? Does a piece of cheese become a trigger? Fuck the ATF. Those pencil-necked peckerheads can choke on my peanut-filled shit. This, is perhaps the greatest post in ARFcom history. Not sure which part I laughed at harder. I agree, a most excellent post by PromptCritical. Prompt not only understands the BATFE injustice and tyranny going on without getting bogged down in other bs issues not pertinent to this tyranny, but he is able to add some cynical humor to it. The definition of a cynic is a disillusioned idealist. That sums me up too. Concerning human powered crankfire devices and the restrictions BATFE has on them like not allowing a motor to be attached.....Allow me to add a few additions. PromptCritical, if the cheese is now the trigger, is the hamster now the sear? Or is the hamster the trigger and the cheese a BATFE ruled "willful intent"? How about a wind powered pinwheel attached to the crankfire device spindle. That way the BATFE can rule that the wind is a machine gun when it turns the pinwheel to operate the crankfire device and fire the firearm. Perhaps if I dropped my shorts and broke wind against the pinwheel, the BATFE could rule the pizza I had the day before was a machine gun. Would "fartfiring" a crankfire be legal with one long continuous rip or would  you have to make each rip separate with a pause in between for your anus to reset? Anyone want to write a submission letter to BATFE asking for a classification on fartfiring? Here's another one. Suppose I rigged a funnel over a mini water wheel that was attached to the spindle of a crankfire device. Similar to a miniature water powered wheel from an old pioneer flour mill. Then I load and chamber the firearm and set it outside just before a bad rainstorm. When the rainwater collected into the large funnel and came out the small hole against the water wheel slats and spun the crankfire device, then the BATFE could say that water was a machine gun. Sure go ahead and laugh at the absurdity, but technically even more realistic and feasible than the "fartfire". This is no more absurd than the BATFE saying my stock is a machine gun. Well, maybe a little, but not by much. Here's another one. Suppose I got one of those white honey bee boxes that bees collect in to make honey and beeswax. I rig up a wheel attached to a crankfire device spindle and position the 1 o'clock through 3 o'clock section of the wheel so only that section is within the bee box. Then I make sure the wheel can turn freely. When the bees build beewax nests filled with honey into that section of the wheel it will drop downward due to gravity and turn the crankfire spindle. A delayed reaction, gravity operated, beeswax and honey powered crankfire machine gun. Here's another one. I hook up a very large and powerful PA audio speaker so that when it vibrates with sound, it vibrates against a lever that acts as a transfer bar to function the trigger. Then I hook a microphone up to a powerful amp and the amp to the speaker. I place this in a location sure to have loud sounds at some time during the day. The BATFE could rule that sound has now become a machine gun and my microphone the trigger. I think I just laughed so hard, juice came out of my nose.... And by juice, yes I mean beer.  LOL I am WITH you Bill....all the way.  Just let me know.....if I fight for you....do I get to kill the English?  (In my most Irish/Scottish sounding Braveheart voice)

They may take our accelerators, they may take our hellfires, but they will ner take our fartfires! Aye lad. Ya c'n kill tha English all ya want, we kill the English here every day.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Have you guys seen this one yet?This one I hear works flawless.Its a homemade job. img413.imageshack.us/img413/6161/bumppics16jkpa8.jpg</a> img185.imageshack.us/img185/3779/bumppics20mbbn8.jpg</a> I think that is the one I referenced above.  Maybe Bill has some info on it. Yes I know about that device. Quite some time ago Mr Bowers told me he contacted the owner regarding it infringing upon my patent applications and acquired it from him. Mr Bowers told me he paid him for it with Akins Group Inc funds and he agreed not to make any more of them. That is what Mr Bowers told me that happened and I do not want be baited by anyone wanting to argue with me about whether or not in their uninformed non patent attorney opinion it violated my patent applications or not. The facts are Mr Bowers told me the owner was contacted, then Mr Bowers unnecessarily reimbursed him for his efforts and bought the device from him. Beyond that I do not know anything further. I never spoke with the man and only know about this from what Mr Bowers told me. To my knowledge Mr Bowers still has the device since I do not have it. I have never seen it physically, only in photos. Mr Bowers would know more about this than I. Go to subguns.com and ask him what he did with it. It belongs to Akins Group Inc but Mr Bowers did not return it to me when he resigned from the corporation. It should be returned to Akins Group Inc since the corporation paid for it according to our photocopy of the check we gave him and receipts that I have.

I'm pretty sure that is what I saw at Bower's house when I bought my Akins in Aug, 06.

Ryan Horsley of Red's trading post which is currently themselves involved in a court action against the BATFE, posted my open letter to Americans on his site. If you have a moment check it out. I included a lot of evidence there.
redstradingpost.blogspot.com/search/label/Akins%20Accelerator


I am also being interviewed by a national right to carry magazine for a article
they want to do on the BATFE injustice against me and Akins Group Inc.

Hoping to be on a national firearms radio show soon also.

I have an attorney that seems interested in this case. Premature yet to know if he will take it though.

I am steadily working on this and will never give up.

Quoted: I am steadily working on this and will never give up.

Any updates?

Bump

Any update on this horrible situation?  What do you think it will take to see justice done?  Will a new director of the BATFE help, or is the issue dead?

Quoted: Quoted: Where is the NRA? This is not something the NRA gives a shit about. I haven't renewed my membership either, and will possibly give an NRA rep an ass-chewing at SHOT for this and the Parker case. Bill, I really wish I could help.  I'm not in any position to contribute anything but best wishes.  I certainly had a good time using my accelerator.  Maybe someday I can use it again.  It sits in its box in my closet awaiting that day.

+1
Since it isn't about hunting or using bolt-guns to take down deer, the NRA is nowhere to be found.