User Panel
Honestly the butthurt in here is more embarrassing for arfcom, I don't see how Griffin looks bad at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quoted: oh also, you guys still planning on doing that flash under nods vid you mentioned in the sierra thread? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Honestly the butthurt in here is more embarrassing for arfcom, I don't see how Griffin looks bad at all. oh also, you guys still planning on doing that flash under nods vid you mentioned in the sierra thread? Yeah, just need time to do it. Also hopefully I'll have the OSS HRT can by then. That's why I'm hoping to grab a Griffin HRT can too. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: This thread didn’t go the way the OP thought it would go. Can someone please IM me what Pacoramirez was alluding to. Do we know what this was about yet? Go click the links that paco posted in his thread. They are all links that look like they would go to other brands websites, but they all bring you to Griffin's. Pretty sketchy, but doesn't mean the Griffin cans don't perform. I'd love to be in the position to try their explorr can vs some others.. I'm in the market for another dedicated 556 can |
|
Quoted: Go click the links that paco posted in his thread. They are all links that look like they would go to other brands websites, but they all bring you to Griffin's. Pretty sketchy, but doesn't mean the Griffin cans don't perform. I'd love to be in the position to try their explorr can vs some others.. I'm in the market for another dedicated 556 can View Quote It is my intent to put those urls back in the public domain. I don’t have the password for the account, and the process is claimed to take three Monday through Friday business days which is not very efficient and I have no idea whether it will actually work or not. The company also uses the term 72 hours, but customer service said three days not including weekends. The only company that emailed me got the urls they wanted in a day or so. Todd hadn’t communicated with us in any way regarding any urls unfortunately, but I can now logically infer from his post on this thread that he was concerned about it and possibly wished to have the ability to register the urls that Dead Air formerly had not seen worthy of their ~$20 annual cost to register. CGS also didn’t contact us previously, so this thread again is their first communication with us. Same situation as with Dead Air. A few Dead Air people communicated with our marketing director more recently without mentioning this url topic, so they had the demonstrated ability to communicate electronically. For context, these urls are very close to garbage urls. Most of them had an estimated value of ~$200. That means near worthless. That may be why the companies didn’t originally want them. Yhm for example has soundsuppressor.com which I believe is valued at more like estimated $50,000. Rugged has soundsuppressors.com, which is probably worth more like $1800 because the plural isn’t likely to be what people enter into a search bar. Part of this was just screwing around for laughs, as we were covering odd variations of our urls also mostly garbage value, and we were surprised to see so many available for almost no cost. |
|
Quoted: It is my intent to put those urls back in the public domain. I don’t have the password for the account, and the process is claimed to take three Monday through Friday business days which is not very efficient and I have no idea whether it will actually work or not. The company also uses the term 72 hours, but customer service said three days not including weekends. The only company that emailed me got the urls they wanted in a day or so. Todd hadn’t communicated with us in any way regarding any urls unfortunately, but I can now logically infer from his post on this thread that he was concerned about it and possibly wished to have the ability to register the urls that Dead Air formerly had not seen worthy of their ~$20 annual cost to register. CGS also didn’t contact us previously, so this thread again is their first communication with us. Same situation as with Dead Air. A few Dead Air people communicated with our marketing director more recently without mentioning this url topic, so they had the demonstrated ability to communicate electronically. For context, these urls are very close to garbage urls. Most of them had an estimated value of ~$200. That means near worthless. That may be why the companies didn’t originally want them. Yhm for example has soundsuppressor.com which I believe is valued at more like estimated $50,000. Rugged has soundsuppressors.com, which is probably worth more like $1800 because the plural isn’t likely to be what people enter into a search bar. View Quote Nobody likes that kid who gets caught and points out the others. |
|
The above two posts are great examples of how nobody can ever do right by anyone in todays world.
That second post has the chronology and context all backward. |
|
This thread got weird. I’m actually interested in the explorr but still curious about the eco flow baffles. I have a turbo that is a bit gassy. How much would I notice a different with the Explorr when it comes to back pressure on a 11.5”? I don’t run adjustable gas blocks.
|
|
Quoted: This thread got weird. I’m actually interested in the explorr but still curious about the eco flow baffles. I have a turbo that is a bit gassy. How much would I notice a different with the Explorr when it comes to back pressure on a 11.5”? I don’t run adjustable gas blocks. View Quote Is there a quantitative way that Griffin could measure backpressure during these tests like bolt velocity? Would be interesting to see baseline vs various silencers to see the difference. Maybe the shooters ear numbers tell the same story, but not the same as understanding the changes in action dynamics. |
|
Quoted: This thread got weird. I’m actually interested in the explorr but still curious about the eco flow baffles. I have a turbo that is a bit gassy. How much would I notice a different with the Explorr when it comes to back pressure on a 11.5”? I don’t run adjustable gas blocks. View Quote We don’t have a developed test for this. We have generally worked to lower the ear number. Ryan in the thread here may have access to the turbo to better answer that. I think especially with the dual lok mount or something similar length like a keymo, the Explorr unit has very low backpressure. The gas isn’t in my eyes or face, backpressure is low. I don’t own a turbo. I haven’t shot one. We have typically just shoot the cans and observed how much gas is coming back. We do also measure ear and the cans that really choke gas backward will measure up to 145db ear, and some of our cans can meter down to ~133db there on 16” barrels or 135db on 11.5” barrels. Generally the low ear is synonymous with low backpressure. We have shot at least one less market sold can that had low ear noise, but that seemed to have low velocity backpressure that kind of lingered around the shooters face creating kind of a hard to breathe sensation. So really shooting the cans is important more than measuring bolt speed as I believe that can had low bolt speed. Toxic gas exposure (as it has become referred to by Sig), is going to vary by model. |
|
Quoted: Is there a quantitative way that Griffin could measure backpressure during these tests like bolt velocity? Would be interesting to see baseline vs various silencers to see the difference. Maybe the shooters ear numbers tell the same story, but not the same as understanding the changes in action dynamics. View Quote |
|
Quoted: You could seal a rifle in a box with the action on the inside and the muzzle outside. Then just measure how much gas is expelled by action. It's pretty simple to do with water displacement, chemists do it to measure gasses produced in reactions. View Quote Larue did this. We have been measuring sound and combating peak sound, and have seen improvements generally moving with that. Which is sort of sensible as the release of faster gas will create more sound. He put a box with some sensors in it around the gun for the SUURG “SOT” stuff (safer operator technology). |
|
I just want to say that while Griffin Armament could probably use a revamp on marketing strategy, I do appreciate their presence on ARFCOM. The search term stuff is super common in other industries, and seems to me to be completely unrelated to the technical performance of suppressors. I get it, the suppressor industry is a small one, and people like to see everyone be all corny and buddy buddy. That would be nice, but people don’t always get along. Ultimately businesses are in business to make money, not be pals with each other. That seems to upset a lot of folks here on arfcom (though it is unclear to me what percentage of offended parties actually shoot their guns or own suppressors or maybe even own guns), who respond to perceived slights with fun things like memes of people pooping everywhere.
I own a number of griffin armament products because they are good quality, perform well, are priced competitively, their accessories are in stock way more than a number of their competitors, and the company has always been responsive to me. I also own Dead Air suppressors and am happy with those. I like my Q stuff too. I don’t own any CGS stuff but would buy, with the caveat that I’d want to know which setups CGS recommends for acceptable performance from the Helios QD. I don’t even blame Paco for avoiding the Pew Science thread, because as Griffin Armament proves quite frequently, attempting negotiations with mobs armed with torches and pitchforks is a good way to start a non consensual spit roast. |
|
I think they’re shysters and dirtbags but their MLOK panels are the only ones on the market that aren’t hot garbage.
Quoted: I just want to say that while Griffin Armament could probably use a revamp on marketing strategy, I do appreciate their presence on ARFCOM. The search term stuff is super common in other industries, and seems to me to be completely unrelated to the technical performance of suppressors. I get it, the suppressor industry is a small one, and people like to see everyone be all corny and buddy buddy. That would be nice, but people don’t always get along. Ultimately businesses are in business to make money, not be pals with each other. That seems to upset a lot of folks here on arfcom (though it is unclear to me what percentage of offended parties actually shoot their guns or own suppressors or maybe even own guns), who respond to perceived slights with fun things like memes of people pooping everywhere. I own a number of griffin armament products because they are good quality, perform well, are priced competitively, their accessories are in stock way more than a number of their competitors, and the company has always been responsive to me. I also own Dead Air suppressors and am happy with those. I don’t own any CGS stuff but would buy, with the caveat that I’d want to know which setups CGS recommends for acceptable performance from the Helios QD. View Quote |
|
What Griffin needs is to decide on a tone and own it; it's a gun accessory company, I expect a certain amount of aggro bravado, but what's aggravating is the passive aggressive nature of a lot of it and the evasiveness when called out on it. Think your can is better than the Sierra 5? Just come out and say so, politely or not, it's the dismissive "not a bad first attempt" thing that rankles, I think a more aggressive "you've heard the hype, now hear the real deal!" type approach would have gone over better, especially if delivered with a bit of winking kayfabe. KB had a similar problem, his jerk shtick was funny before people realized it wasn't a shtick, that he was actually a jerk, but he's a talented enough marking guy to still make it work to some extent. With Griffin, it's like they want to be cool and edgy, with the porny double entendre names or the infamous engravings back in the day, but then they waffle when people criticize them for it when the better move would be to stick their collective chin out and straight up own it. Same with the Dugan Ashley thing, even if they genuinely think he slandered the company (a highly dubious assertion), the response was terrible optics and defending it just digs the hole deeper and encourages the trolls who see it still bothers them, when it would be so easy to shut it down with "yeah, our social media guy got a little twitchy that day, that was out of line", it could even have been spun as "yeah, KAC cans are virtually unobtanium for civilians, so we were fulfilling a demand from vets for something that looked like what they had in the service but with a more modern design and a lower price", pure win.
I'm not going to let a company owner being a little clumsy on the communications front deter me from purchasing a product I think is good, but it clearly is at least a bit of an issue for Griffin given the number of people here sworn off the brand over it, and it sure seems like something that could be fixed with a little marketing and message discipline. |
|
People were asking for a sound test. We delivered that. I get your point about say something positive. The positive thing to say is it is solidly built, and a handy length. Point taken. Im an engineer in one of my functions at the company, I typically spend most of my time focusing on whats wrong or needs improvement.
On the nt4- the whole can is public domain except for the trademarks and whatever a court would construe to be trade dress. The nt4 gate lock style of mounting system was public domain. We could have made a much closer (identical) rendition if it had been our intention to clone it. It has always been a great insult to pretend apples are oranges. Gate lock has been done by SRT, and B&T. Nobody says fuck those B&T guys for copying kac, and they also for years used the kac baffle (which is also public domain as it came from AWC according to Doug Olson, and was never patented according to Reed I believe in a recoil article interview). None of the companies actually used the kac design, but that wouldn’t be illegal as there is no protected IP there. A dealer recently requested a clone. I would expect KAC to prefer otherwise. I don’t understand why they don’t make a few more nt4’s for the fans. Certainly at the price, they don’t have to make many as very few people can afford to buy one. They are currently in mass production as far as I know. So they should have inventory. Please don’t take me wrong, as Im not trying to be offensive, but You’re sort of saying, we should have told people lies about making them a cheaper nt4. We didn’t make a ferrari kit on a fiero chassis. We made a totally different suppressor entirely with the only similarity being the gate mount genre/class. Thats the reality and has always been the reality. The company for a lot of years was young guys under 30 and the names of the products reflect that. I do very slight majority own the company but I don’t completely run it like a dictatorship. I have several times been disappointed to see the guys name a serious product not seriously, sometimes to its detriment, but I’ve stopped short of being a dictator. Im not saying I made the right call, but thats how it happened. I typically tell them I disagree a few times, and they argue six ways for what they did and sometimes I let them be marketing people and get their way. |
|
Quoted: Ok, but how do those 1911's shoot? View Quote I sold most of them. I only have a couple colt WW1 manufactured colt military pistols, the excellent xse govt, a customized cheap rock island gun with a threaded jarvis bull barrel, and a para ord commander gun. The para stovepipes one round per mag (its not a Colt). The rock island has vertical slide play and shoots 4” tall 2” wide groups at 25, and is only unsold because the parts are worth twice as much as the gun, and because it can mount a suppressor. I don’t think rock island (armscorp) forges frames the frames seem to loosen very rapidly and they are the heart of the gun. The xse runs and shoots excellent. The ww1colts I haven’t fired. I have big hands, knarly hammer bite is guaranteed. They have surprisingly good fit, really nice fit. They probably shoot very nicely into 3.5” at 25. If I could erase a sale, Ild have my les baer back, my heavily customized hard chromed kimber, and my SA custom shop gun. They were all great 1911’s sold many many years ago when money was tight. 1911’s are probably obsolete, mostly due to weight, but they are still awesome pistols when they embody what a good 1911 can be. Oh i also have a colt centennial ww1 in the factory box unfired. I would gladly sell it, I bought it thinking it was a ww1 reissue, but it has the 1911-2011 markings. |
|
|
Quoted: I don’t own any CGS stuff but would buy, with the caveat that I’d want to know which setups CGS recommends for acceptable performance from the Helios QD. I don’t even blame Paco for avoiding the Pew Science thread... View Quote A lot of us would buy with the same caveat and that thread would have been the perfect spot for recommendations, but... |
|
Quoted: Quoted: I run R&D for a product line for a large company. We do competitive benchmarking all the time and use the data to sell to customers. We don't release vids though, why? My scary little jewish lawyer says it would be perfectly ethical to do so as long as the tests are fair. However, he says it's not worth it because someone could still get butthurt and sue us which is expensive if we win, which we should, and even more expensive if someone like you is on the jury. So now we only do live testing for big customers and no video. Our competition does video though, and you can bet your ass my scary little lawyer would sue the shit out of them if any of it were unethical or illegal. You seem like a peach. ?? |
|
|
Quoted: Quoted: This thread didn’t go the way the OP thought it would go. Can someone please IM me what Pacoramirez was alluding to. Do we know what this was about yet? This I thought I was cool but honestly if you fuckers have IM’d me |
|
Honestly never knew there were so many marketing experts on ARFCOM, very surprising to me. Personally I love seeing a company compare their products to the biggest and latest releases. I want to see which is better. Griffin took no time to compare their cans to dead airs sierra 5, nomad, sigs qd and I believe even the surefire rc2. I was hyped for the sierra 5 but found it odd that it took several weeks after selling that they released any sound or performance videos. First video I saw was from a random YouTuber shooting with the sierra 5. Almost as shady as the rugged razor 556 release but at least the sierra 5 turned out to be good at the end.
|
|
Quoted: Honestly never knew there were so many marketing experts on ARFCOM, very surprising to me. Personally I love seeing a company compare their products to the biggest and latest releases. I want to see which is better. Griffin took no time to compare their cans to dead airs sierra 5, nomad, sigs qd and I believe even the surefire rc2. I was hyped for the sierra 5 but found it odd that it took several weeks after selling that they released any sound or performance videos. First video I saw was from a random YouTuber shooting with the sierra 5. Almost as shady as the rugged razor 556 release but at least the sierra 5 turned out to be good at the end. View Quote Yeah, talking about a let down........the Rugged Razor 5.56 |
|
Quoted: Honestly never knew there were so many marketing experts on ARFCOM, very surprising to me. Personally I love seeing a company compare their products to the biggest and latest releases. I want to see which is better. Griffin took no time to compare their cans to dead airs sierra 5, nomad, sigs qd and I believe even the surefire rc2. I was hyped for the sierra 5 but found it odd that it took several weeks after selling that they released any sound or performance videos. First video I saw was from a random YouTuber shooting with the sierra 5. Almost as shady as the rugged razor 556 release but at least the sierra 5 turned out to be good at the end. View Quote Did you throw as much shade in your other two posts? I agree with what someone said above: the TBAC “here’s the data” approach seems neutral and chill. Hell, zak-smith could be totally fibbing competitor data (lol) but their approach makes it seem super low key and trustworthy. |
|
I just hope the dual lok mounts are solid... Converting a few cans to this interface since I've had some direct thread things try and walk on me a bit lately... ??
|
|
|
Quoted: I just hope the dual lok mounts are solid... Converting a few cans to this interface since I've had some direct thread things try and walk on me a bit lately... ?? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: I just hope the dual lok mounts are solid... Converting a few cans to this interface since I've had some direct thread things try and walk on me a bit lately... ?? It can’t walk. The user tightens the can, and locks the mount, and it is locked. Worst case if a user tightens it and puts the lock ring on the side of the mount that doesn’t allow it to visually lock(user error), the ring will lock itself as the can backs into the first available engagement groove, because there is active spring tension on the ring to lock it as soon as it aligns with clearance. The only thing that can defeat the system is if a person puts the ring in the unlocked position and never attempts to lock it. It is a manually actuated lock, like the Sig Slx, or the KAC NT4, so it depends on the user to actuate it. There are some patents on spring loaded pawls, and some of those have wear issues, so the manual activation is probably the only way to actually lock and not be infringing other IP. Quoted: Honestly never knew there were so many marketing experts on ARFCOM, very surprising to me. Personally I love seeing a company compare their products to the biggest and latest releases. I want to see which is better. Griffin took no time to compare their cans to dead airs sierra 5, nomad, sigs qd and I believe even the surefire rc2. I was hyped for the sierra 5 but found it odd that it took several weeks after selling that they released any sound or performance videos. First video I saw was from a random YouTuber shooting with the sierra 5. Almost as shady as the rugged razor 556 release but at least the sierra 5 turned out to be good at the end. I want to know whats going on. I breathe a sigh of relief when the competition doesn’t redefine the level of competition because it is hard to find the next way to outperform your current best. We waste a lot of money and time figuring out how to push the stuff to where it is. The more hyped the product is, the more important it is to know where the performance is, because theoretically if the boundaries move we have to begin reacting as soon as possible. |
|
Quoted: Honestly never knew there were so many marketing experts on ARFCOM, very surprising to me. Personally I love seeing a company compare their products to the biggest and latest releases. I want to see which is better. Griffin took no time to compare their cans to dead airs sierra 5, nomad, sigs qd and I believe even the surefire rc2. I was hyped for the sierra 5 but found it odd that it took several weeks after selling that they released any sound or performance videos. First video I saw was from a random YouTuber shooting with the sierra 5. Almost as shady as the rugged razor 556 release but at least the sierra 5 turned out to be good at the end. View Quote yah honestly that raised some red flags with me aswell, it did turn out to be good but them not releasing any kind of data or 'in use' photos (flash) made me very suspicious; after all it wasn't like they didn't have 'em, they basically have to photograph and video the thing in the development process. i think it was a big oversight on da's part, especially since the performance seems good; i did end up changing my mind to recce5 after this thread, but that was after talking with @Green0 about firing schedules/ reviewing the blast baffle pic thread, not disappointment in the sierra's performance. I'm still inclined to think stelite has a bit better wear resistance, but i figure that resistance and the ~6db's extra you get from the recce are worth about the same it's just a question of priorities, and with a lifespan in the 10's of 1000's of rounds for each, for my first suppressor ever I think I'll be happier with the quieter option. I don't know that I would've paid as much attention to this thread though if da had already put out meter testing/flash vids as a part of their product release. obv i'm a sample size of one, but it seems safe to assume that if i have someone else likely has as well. |
|
Quoted: The company for a lot of years was young guys under 30 and the names of the products reflect that. I do very slight majority own the company but I don’t completely run it like a dictatorship. I have several times been disappointed to see the guys name a serious product not seriously, sometimes to its detriment, but I’ve stopped short of being a dictator. Im not saying I made the right call, but thats how it happened. I typically tell them I disagree a few times, and they argue six ways for what they did and sometimes I let them be marketing people and get their way. View Quote on the note of product names and descriptions, I've always wanted to point out that the m4sdII being 'forged in the fires of mount doom' would necessarily attach the evil and intents derived from Melkor (Sauron's corupter/mentor/master) to the end product, not a good thing, if you're wanting to tie an extreme power of magical nature ala LOTR to it a far better description would be something like 'wrought in the first age by Fëanor under the light of the two trees', that'd put it more on the plane of the palantir or silmarils, which i think is what you're going for. |
|
Quoted: People were asking for a sound test. We delivered that. I get your point about say something positive. The positive thing to say is it is solidly built, and a handy length. Point taken. Im an engineer in one of my functions at the company, I typically spend most of my time focusing on whats wrong or needs improvement. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: People were asking for a sound test. We delivered that. I get your point about say something positive. The positive thing to say is it is solidly built, and a handy length. Point taken. Im an engineer in one of my functions at the company, I typically spend most of my time focusing on whats wrong or needs improvement. Not quite what I meant, what I'm saying is that if you're going to be critical, you should be straightforward about it, the way you typically criticize comes off as passive aggressive. I don't know if that's your intent, but it's how I read it, I've seen you do it many times, I almost think you think you're being polite or subtle, but that's not how I, or apparently others here, are reading it, it comes across like you're saying insults under your breath rather than to someone's face. Quoted:On the nt4- the whole can is public domain except for the trademarks and whatever a court would construe to be trade dress. The nt4 gate lock style of mounting system was public domain. We could have made a much closer (identical) rendition if it had been our intention to clone it. It has always been a great insult to pretend apples are oranges. Gate lock has been done by SRT, and B&T. Nobody says fuck those B&T guys for copying kac, and they also for years used the kac baffle (which is also public domain as it came from AWC according to Doug Olson, and was never patented according to Reed I believe in a recoil article interview). None of the companies actually used the kac design, but that wouldn’t be illegal as there is no protected IP there. See, what you're doing here is a good example of what I'm talking about, you're overly defensive and taking what amounted to ball busting from a gun tuber and making a federal case out of it, almost literally, and it's following you around like TP stuck to your shoe because you can't just say that you overreacted to it and let it go at that. It was a simple joke about looking like a more expensive product, like the Chrysler 300 trying to look like a Bentley, he wasn't comparing technical details of the locking system or baffle designs, and by pretending like he was to avoid admitting to the overreaction, you just make yourself look dishonest. Quoted: A dealer recently requested a clone. I would expect KAC to prefer otherwise. I don’t understand why they don’t make a few more nt4’s for the fans. Certainly at the price, they don’t have to make many as very few people can afford to buy one. They are currently in mass production as far as I know. So they should have inventory. I suspect that on some level the mystique is worth more to them than the profits they might be able to make on the mass market, like a super exclusive nightclub that lets virtually no one in. Quoted:Please don’t take me wrong, as Im not trying to be offensive, but You’re sort of saying, we should have told people lies about making them a cheaper nt4. We didn’t make a ferrari kit on a fiero chassis. We made a totally different suppressor entirely with the only similarity being the gate mount genre/class. Thats the reality and has always been the reality. Oh, you misunderstand me, I just threw out a possible way of spinning the Dugan Ashley incident in a more productive way, it was meant as an example of a way of responding, not as a concrete plan. Quoted:The company for a lot of years was young guys under 30 and the names of the products reflect that. I do very slight majority own the company but I don’t completely run it like a dictatorship. I have several times been disappointed to see the guys name a serious product not seriously, sometimes to its detriment, but I’ve stopped short of being a dictator. Im not saying I made the right call, but thats how it happened. I typically tell them I disagree a few times, and they argue six ways for what they did and sometimes I let them be marketing people and get their way. Okay, this part is the most perfect example of what I meant when I said to pick a messaging lane, you're again being defensive when you shouldn't be, you're trying to both defend the company style and apologize for it at the same time and it comes out sounding mealy mouthed and weak. Either keeping doing the edgy names and lean into it (the combat veteran angle makes this an easy sell, a somewhat sick sense of humor is pretty expected), or change them out for more "serious" names, but what you're doing is just confusing and weird trying to have it both ways and sending mixed messages. All you need to say is "shut up, it's funny" and be done with it, you're just not doing yourself any favors with the prevarications. Just as an aside, I'm a huge booster of your pistol QD system and think your company does a lot of innovative work and puts out some very cool products, that's why I cringe when I see you turn off potential customers with some of these posts. |
|
7DB louder in a category is 500% more sound. I could tell we won that test under the ear pro when we first got the can in. The can sounded loud, because thats what happens when events are significantly louder than other events.
One DB is the threshold of human perception- “this is louder than that”. Seven is a logarithmic function along similar lines- “this is many times louder than that.” |
|
Quoted: 7DB louder in a category is 500% more sound. I could tell we won that test under the ear pro when we first got the can in. The can sounded loud, because thats what happens when events are significantly louder than other events. One DB is the threshold of human perception- “this is louder than that”. Seven is a logarithmic function along similar lines- “this is many times louder than that.” View Quote I'd thought folks said 3db was the point where you notice a clear difference, tmyk I guess. Much more glad of my decision swap in that case |
|
In an audiologists booth 1 dB difference is detectable by somebody with undamaged, normal hearing. On the range or in noisy ambient environs 3dB is obvious but for many circumstances with impulse noise, maybe not a huge difference. Often a can that seems quiet one day will seem louder others, so subjective judgement is a slippery thing. In absolute pressure 3dB is significant. Loudspeakers that are 3dB more efficient playing continuous sound will be very noticeably louder. Two unsuppressed gunshots measuring 3dB apart (say 165 and 168) at 1 meter when auditioned from a distance, through muffs, or through ringing unprotected ears will be very hard to say subjectively which is louder. Most first round pop on rimfire cans on a pistol will be around 3dB louder so that’s a good reference example.
|
|
Quoted: In an audiologists booth 1 dB difference is detectable by somebody with undamaged, normal hearing. On the range or in noisy ambient environs 3dB is obvious but for many circumstances with impulse noise, maybe not a huge difference. Often a can that seems quiet one day will seem louder others, so subjective judgement is a slippery thing. In absolute pressure 3dB is significant. Loudspeakers that are 3dB more efficient playing continuous sound will be very noticeably louder. Two unsuppressed gunshots measuring 3dB apart (say 165 and 168) at 1 meter when auditioned from a distance, through muffs, or through ringing unprotected ears will be very hard to say subjectively which is louder. Most first round pop on rimfire cans on a pistol will be around 3dB louder so that’s a good reference example. View Quote FYI this is a subjective subject matter involving perception. Typically ~2DB on a suppressor is easy enough for me to tell the difference (improvement or decay at the same reference position), and under ear muffs probably 3.5DB minimum difference is required to hear the difference clearly. The issue with telling 1DB with a suppressor is not because it is loud. It is because the suppressor has typically about 2-4DB extreme spread, so if two silencers are 1DB apart, you will have an overlap of more than half of the rounds fired, confusing the experience of trying to tell the difference. That doesn't mean the silencer that meters 1DB better isn't more quiet, that just means it is harder to tell that it is better without a meter averaging it for you. I never fire suppressors on a range with other people shooting during the process of evaluating the suppressor for sound. To expect people to tell the difference between sounds while other distracting noise is occurring is a step that would reduce the validity of any comparison. It would be like having someone evaluate the ride of a car while driving on the rumble strip. It's just one extra variable people don't need. There are some flyers where for example a can sounds maybe 1-2DB better than it meters at 1M left (this is what people refer to as tone). For my ears (this is totally subjective I suppose) Allen Engineering cans (at least the 5.56mm AEM5) for example has excellent tone probably coming across as -1.5DB (maybe 2?) of the 1M meter data for especially observers not as much for firers. KAC's NT4 has good tone, maybe -0.5-1DB of the meter. The OSS stuff at times seemed to sound a little worse than it is to me personally- maybe +2DB of the meter data- the Sig SLX for my ears is similar to OSS on that side of the spectrum- I think with Sig it is probably more the projection of sound forward than actually bad tone. If you sort of overwhelm the area in front of the muzzle with pressure due to some mechanical feature very effectively shaping the muzzle pressure, the ambient sound of that can create the perception of bad tone. So those are examples of Great, and perceptibly not great tone. Those should be seen more like 13% of both sides of the spectrum. They are not indicative of the majority of silencer performance. I think the Sierra tone and our tone for cans in this test were comparably center of the range for where they were metering. There's nothing to say for positive or negative tonal characteristics IMO. |
|
Quoted: What made you want this vs other products on the market? View Quote For a locking hub interface mount, there are really only 2 options - this or the keymo. Since Griffin offers titanium mini brakes, this system is slightly lighter than the keymo. I have the keymo also, so I'll compare the two and see which I like better.. But minimizing weight is a big factor for me. |
|
I'm just here to declare which voodoo tube brand has my allegiance and how my feelings affirm my decision. Also, insert engineering terms used incorrectly.
|
|
|
Quoted: 10/10, did snort out loud at my daughter’s ballet class. Thanks, needed that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I'm just here to declare which voodoo tube brand has my allegiance and how my feelings affirm my decision. Also, insert engineering terms used incorrectly. I chuckled |
|
The only Griffin products I own is the camlock piston and mount for my 9mm pistols and I have a Dead Air Nomad waiting for approval, so when I say that you need to chill the fuck out, I hope you don't think I am being biased.
|
|
Save some pussy for the rest of us, chucklefuck. It was a joke.
Quoted: The only Griffin products I own is the camlock piston and mount for my 9mm pistols and I have a Dead Air Nomad waiting for approval, so when I say that you need to chill the fuck out, I hope you don't think I am being biased. View Quote |
|
|
|
My takeaways from this thread are.
#1 I didn't know I could have my Recce 5 mod 3 upgraded to a 4.. gonna be sending that in soon. #2 I didn't pay much attention to the Explorr before as I didn't need another 556 can but hot damn.. 9oz and 6in and it puts up those numbers? Yeah I think I'm going to grab one. Carry on with the butthurt |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.