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Posted: 9/14/2017 1:15:47 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Being that it is an AR-15 magazine stock, it would not surprise me if they offer it for sale at some point (Lithgow had told me last year they did want to offer an AR-15 mag compatible stock) Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I don't think the BR stock looks any better/worse than the AUG mag stock, just different. Sven Manticore |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 2:38:04 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In fairness, the refined one piece stock they're showing now looks way better than the one that was originally shown with bolted together halves. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Being that it is an AR-15 magazine stock, it would not surprise me if they offer it for sale at some point (Lithgow had told me last year they did want to offer an AR-15 mag compatible stock) Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I don't think the BR stock looks any better/worse than the AUG mag stock, just different. Sven Manticore |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:21:21 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
^ That's the one I want F90MBR. Hope that stockset is a option. I don't care how many people come at me claiming whatever non-AR mag is superior. I have AR mags, and enjoy not having to dump hundreds more into magazines. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:27:25 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. I don't care how many people come at me claiming whatever non-AR mag is superior. I have AR mags, and enjoy not having to dump hundreds more into magazines. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:22:57 PM EST
[#5]
To each his own but I like most of what is seen in the current MBR pics. The one visible issue I disliske immediately is the short height of the butt plate area itself. The 5.56 round isn't goint to beat anyone to death but the actual area of contact with the shooters shoulder is very short.
In the one photo showing the weapon shouldered and aimed, the butt area is so short that only about a third of the stock is in contact with the shooters shoulder. Making the MBR lighter by a very few ounces while minimizing the area of shoulder contact would to me appear to be a bad trade-off. It may have been designed specifically with the Asian market in mind but for the average Western shooter, the butt height is too short to easily be shouldered securely without deliberate effort. I am not nearly as concerned with looks as I am functionality personally but the decision the lop off a large area of shoulder contact is curious. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:25:54 PM EST
[#6]
I sort of like the redesigned M16 type magazine stock. The first iteration looked like crap, this one actually isn't so bad. I'd buy one, although the AUG mag stock will be my first and preferred choice.
Admittedly I've only had one AUG NATO stock, a green version that I quickly sold as it offered me nothing over an AUG mag stock. This though not only appears to have the same functionality as their AUG mag stock, but has the added benefit of the AR / x95 type magazine release. I can see Lithgow selling more of the M16 type mag stock over the AUG mag stock. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 7:40:30 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I sort of like the redesigned M16 type magazine stock. The first iteration looked like crap, this one actually isn't so bad. I'd buy one, although the AUG mag stock will be my first and preferred choice. Admittedly I've only had one AUG NATO stock, a green version that I quickly sold as it offered me nothing over an AUG mag stock. This though not only appears to have the same functionality as their AUG mag stock, but has the added benefit of the AR / x95 type magazine release. I can see Lithgow selling more of the M16 type mag stock over the AUG mag stock. 
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Posted: 9/14/2017 7:56:40 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In fairness, the refined one piece stock they're showing now looks way better than the one that was originally shown with bolted together halves. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 8:02:48 PM EST
[#9]
Yeah I am tired of collecting various mags of the caliber. I want to be able to grab a few rifles & a bunch of mags. Do not want to make sure I have a few for each rifle. Also better with non-firearm people that you take shooting. Yeah AUG mags are great & were cheap at one point but AR mags are pretty great now as well. & I rather have a ton of those that I can keep everywhere, some loaded, some in vest/carriers/belts/pouches & even cases.
Circle 10 556s, Sig 55X, AUG, MSAR, G36/805 it gets real old trying to collect all those in addition to the common 556 mags. Moving across country with them is a bitch also. Also when your putting your rifle in a rest sometimes you just prefer a 5/10 rounder. This MBR nato stock to me looks great & I actually visually appeals to me more than the standard quasi AUG-like stock. Plus it looks smaller & might be lighter. Has way more sling options - the takedown sling pin, QD cups on both sides & a metal loop at the top of the rear stock. Also bolt release is right therenon both sides as well as index finger mag release on both sides. Also in all the pics of this stock (early & newer version) there is a prominent shell deflector - not something you see on all of the pics of the standard stock. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 12:35:03 AM EST
[#10]
A few additional photos. More can be found at the link
http://soldiersystems.net/2017/09/13/dsei-17-thales-launches-f90-modular-bullpup-rifle/ 
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To each his own but I like most of what is seen in the current MBR pics. The one visible issue I disliske immediately is the short height of the butt plate area itself. The 5.56 round isn't goint to beat anyone to death but the actual area of contact with the shooters shoulder is very short. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 1:18:38 AM EST
[#11]
What is "the USSOCOM over the beach test"?
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Posted: 9/15/2017 2:44:06 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is "the USSOCOM over the beach test"? OTB @ Lightfighter OTB @ HKPRO |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 5:14:54 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A few additional photos. More can be found at the link http://soldiersystems.net/2017/09/13/dsei-17-thales-launches-f90-modular-bullpup-rifle/ http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/img_4027.jpg http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/img_4022.jpg I agree. The upcoming HK433 also has a short height buttplate. Maybe more armies are requesting them. Very few civilians shoot with body armor on so it's something they could easily overlook and leave them scratching their heads. Another example of a more recent rifle doing this is the x95 versus the original tavor. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 5:20:33 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, they let people shoot both their 20" and 16" guns. Both were full auto samples. It shoots great, or at least as great as the goofy AUG "pull partway to shoot semi, pull all the way and hang on to shoot full auto" trigger can work. 
We plan to get one in house to play with. Sven Manticore Arms I read somewhere(here or BF)that it makes more sense to have a trigger like that; if one shot isn't enough squeeze further. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 6:28:57 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a rifle like that and I liked it. I read somewhere(here or BF)that it makes more sense to have a trigger like that; if one shot isn't enough squeeze further. It makes the trigger heavier service rifles aren't exactly great at providing accurate ranged automatic fire to begin with and adding a significantly heavier pull into that equation makes it even more difficult even under the best of circumstances. Under high stress when your sympathetic nervous system kicks in and the adrenal glands are pumping out epinephrine and norepinephrine like crazy raising your heart rate, constricting your blood vessels, giving you the shakes, and fucking up your fine motor skills there is the possibility of inadvertently going into full auto and at best wasting rounds at worst in say room clearing hitting something you didn't want to. Some argue shooting service rifles in full auto offhand isn't that hard they've done it on a range blah blah blah. Yeah a one way range in a static position with all the time in the world to get a proper stance, not moving and using impromptu stances to fire when necessary. I've done room clearing training with a m249 before same round but the weapon weighs over twice as much so it should have significantly less recoil. It scared me at times I was worried about blowing the barrels off the rifles of one of the guys next to me I was 5'11" 155lbs at the time so not the biggest guy around but guys even larger than me had the same issue. I would not want to do the same scenario with a 8 or 9lb full auto 5.56. All that doesn't even take into account that you usually don't get a huge amount of trigger time in the military let alone running a service rifle in full auto to try and reduce the issues. But that's just my take on the 2 stage full auto feature YMMV. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 7:27:12 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a rifle like that and I liked it. I read somewhere(here or BF)that it makes more sense to have a trigger like that; if one shot isn't enough squeeze further. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yes, they let people shoot both their 20" and 16" guns. Both were full auto samples. It shoots great, or at least as great as the goofy AUG "pull partway to shoot semi, pull all the way and hang on to shoot full auto" trigger can work.
We plan to get one in house to play with. Sven Manticore Arms I read somewhere(here or BF)that it makes more sense to have a trigger like that; if one shot isn't enough squeeze further. I can say firsthand it makes for a difficult trigger to get controllable bursts. You either snap off only one round and the mechanism doesn't go full auto if you don't pull fast enough, or if you puill fast enough there is a fraction of a second pause before it starts going full auto and you have to go through the whole process again just to get another burst off. The Austrians also refer to what is known as the "rookie pull" which is the first time in a two way firefight virtually every new guy tries to fire a round and adrenaline makes them pull the trigger and let loose a long burst. I have a friend who was Army liason with some Austrian troops in Iraq some years ago and experienced this first hand (he was issued an AUG as he was embedded with them for weapon/mag commonality), and the veteran Austrian troops just laughed and said "don't worry, happens to everyone in the first fight" Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 11:18:21 AM EST
[#17]
I have no military experience but have shot a lot of m16s and I had a rifle that would cut loose controllably(as opposed to "dumping the mag" because Gomer didn't assemble the rifle correctly!
I got nervous that the wrong folks would be at the club and yank my membership due to a no full auto anytime policy and then dropping a dime to someone else ending with mikey going away! The rifle has been returned to the manufacturer, repaired and returned to me. Bottom line: you all are correct; I had some "in theory" time and some fun and a hair raising experience the first time! |
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Posted: 9/21/2017 1:04:33 PM EST
[#18]
Are there any updates on the F90's availability? Weren't they supposed to start shipping this month?
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Posted: 9/21/2017 1:45:32 PM EST
[#19]
Not to drift too far OT, but while we are on the subject of triggers, you guys should look into what Bill Geissele designed for the Block III program as far as safety/trigger/full auto functions.
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Posted: 9/21/2017 2:26:06 PM EST
[#20]
The one that auto-resets back from AUTO back to SEMI? I don't like that.
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Posted: 9/24/2017 11:49:55 PM EST
[#21]
So what are the advantages or advances of the Atrax? Is it more accurate than the AUG? Is it as reliable? It's a lil' lighter but not much. What the real selling point here?
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Posted: 9/25/2017 10:05:31 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what are the advantages or advances of the Atrax? Is it more accurate than the AUG? Is it as reliable? It's a lil' lighter but not much. What the real selling point here? If that doesn't float your boat then probably no reason to buy it. I will say I personally like it and it handles nicely. There hasn't been any accuracy testing head to head so no one can comment on that yet. Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 9/25/2017 11:02:07 AM EST
[#23]
It also has a 5/8" shorter LoP
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Posted: 9/25/2017 12:48:00 PM EST
[#24]
Saw something from Lithgow the other day announcing the F90MBR, apparently that's the name for the export "ugly" model. Looked pretty good compared to the early photos.
Youtube video is pretty cheesy though.  Lithgow Arms F90MBR (Modular Bullpup Rifle ) |
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Posted: 9/26/2017 6:01:42 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Saw something from Lithgow the other day announcing the F90MBR, apparently that's the name for the export "ugly" model. Looked pretty good compared to the early photos. Youtube video is pretty cheesy though.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5jUxjqIlGg
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Posted: 9/27/2017 9:28:04 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cheesiest gun ad I've seen in life. I'm in shock 
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Posted: 9/28/2017 9:26:16 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think EAA wins that: http://www.thegunmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/EAA-WitnessPolymerRobo-GunMag0415.jpg |
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Posted: 10/1/2017 9:33:32 PM EST
[#28]
Thank GOD it's the ugly one.
Now I am not tempted to buy one!!!!! Dodged that bullet!!!!!!!!!!
Did NOT dodge this one, however.... 
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Posted: 10/2/2017 1:28:11 PM EST
[#29]
To those who've shot it: how's the trigger? Apologies if this has been covered.
Thanks |
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Posted: 10/2/2017 3:06:55 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To those who've shot it: how's the trigger? Apologies if this has been covered. Thanks |
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Posted: 10/2/2017 5:27:43 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank GOD it's the ugly one. Now I am not tempted to buy one!!!!! Dodged that bullet!!!!!!!!!!
Did NOT dodge this one, however.... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/23042/Full__view-322621.jpg |
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Posted: 10/2/2017 9:29:04 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Um, they haven't announced one way or the other yet. The "ugly export model" is meant for overseas military sales. Australia is getting the original and all indications have been that we are as well. |
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Posted: 10/3/2017 7:13:03 AM EST
[#33]
Everything they show on the website or at exhibitions here is the original. I feel like they're sending a very consistent message
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Posted: 10/3/2017 8:15:50 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everything they show on the website or at exhibitions here is the original. I feel like they're sending a very consistent message All their marketing material, demo guns, and models approved for import are the AUG mag model. Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 7:58:38 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is a good theoretical design, one less lever/button, but in practice it sucks. I can say firsthand it makes for a difficult trigger to get controllable bursts. You either snap off only one round and the mechanism doesn't go full auto if you don't pull fast enough, or if you puill fast enough there is a fraction of a second pause before it starts going full auto and you have to go through the whole process again just to get another burst off. The Austrians also refer to what is known as the "rookie pull" which is the first time in a two way firefight virtually every new guy tries to fire a round and adrenaline makes them pull the trigger and let loose a long burst. I have a friend who was Army liason with some Austrian troops in Iraq some years ago and experienced this first hand (he was issued an AUG as he was embedded with them for weapon/mag commonality), and the veteran Austrian troops just laughed and said "don't worry, happens to everyone in the first fight" Sven Manticore Arms  Steyr AUG A3 machinegun |
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Posted: 10/29/2017 10:33:22 AM EST
[#36]
- If it does not take stanag/magpul mags it will fail in the US market.
- If it is not accurate it will fail in the US market (I’ve never shot an aug that couldn’t be coaxed to at least 1.5” at 100m however so this shouldn’t be too tough). They appear to have put a big emphasis on its playing well with supressors and shaving system weight considerably, which will only help (take note steyr). |
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Posted: 10/29/2017 7:36:50 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
- If it does not take stanag/magpul mags it will fail in the US market. - If it is not accurate it will fail in the US market (I’ve never shot an aug that couldn’t be coaxed to at least 1.5” at 100m however so this shouldn’t be too tough). They appear to have put a big emphasis on its playing well with supressors and shaving system weight considerably, which will only help (take note steyr). |
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Posted: 10/29/2017 8:24:14 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most AUGs do not take STANAG mags and it has done fine. The vast majority of AUGs in the US use AUG mags which are readily available and inexpensive. When I still ran a LGS, "it takes the same mags as your AR" was a HUGE selling point to the masses. And when people who were curious about the AUG/bullpups in general learned that many AUGs took a proprietary mag, or lost LRBHO when in STANAG configuration, they quickly soured on the AUG, and looked at the Tavor/ACR/SCAR/anything else that was different but still uses their same mags. AUG sales basically died when the Tavor hit the market. When the "export" version of the F90 hits these shores, I might be interested. Until then, it's just another curio to me. |
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Posted: 10/30/2017 6:47:00 PM EST
[#39]
Actual marketing is a hell of a force multiplier and IWI had that going for the Tavor in spades, over the AUG.
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Posted: 11/1/2017 7:09:39 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lighter, better rail setup in front. That pretty much covers it. Basically a fixed barrel AUG with a better rail setup. Deleting the QD barrel setup means they can beef up the barrel around the chamber area considerably. If that doesn't float your boat then probably no reason to buy it. I will say I personally like it and it handles nicely. There hasn't been any accuracy testing head to head so no one can comment on that yet. Sven Manticore Arms Did beefing up the barrel add any weight or did advancements in manufacturing make it that much better plus losing the QD barrel? Count me in for an AUG magged rifle; I got to use all these mags somewhere! |
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Posted: 11/1/2017 10:09:30 AM EST
[#41]
Nvrmnd, I watched the vids posted. I want.
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Posted: 11/1/2017 10:59:15 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sven, can you compare it to the CQC AUG? I have one but haven't fired it. It was my first AUG and I bought it when they first came out then put it away so I haven't played with it in a number of years. Did beefing up the barrel add any weight or did advancements in manufacturing make it that much better plus losing the QD barrel? Count me in for an AUG magged rifle; I got to use all these mags somewhere! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Lighter, better rail setup in front. That pretty much covers it. Basically a fixed barrel AUG with a better rail setup. Deleting the QD barrel setup means they can beef up the barrel around the chamber area considerably. If that doesn't float your boat then probably no reason to buy it. I will say I personally like it and it handles nicely. There hasn't been any accuracy testing head to head so no one can comment on that yet. Sven Manticore Arms Did beefing up the barrel add any weight or did advancements in manufacturing make it that much better plus losing the QD barrel? Count me in for an AUG magged rifle; I got to use all these mags somewhere! I have shot the F90 several times but only at about 35 yards, so I cannot comment on accuracy. But removing the QD barrel and having it fixed in the trunnion should at least theoretically make it more stable and repeatable. Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 11/1/2017 9:36:52 PM EST
[#43]
In one of the vids, I think it was Mac's, he almost balanced the Atrax between thumb and forefinger. I don't know if I could hold the CQC with one hand.
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Posted: 11/1/2017 10:13:31 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In one of the vids, I think it was Mac's, he almost balanced the Atrax between thumb and forefinger. I don't know if I could hold the CQC with one hand. |
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Posted: 11/3/2017 7:53:51 AM EST
[#45]
I was mainly aiming at my cQC but thanks for that info. PupLight inbound, Crimson trace green laser inbound, trying to find the best deal on the Surefire cause I'm a cheap bastard but soon it will be inbound.
Thank you for your information. |
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Posted: 11/3/2017 8:04:25 AM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are a strange individual.
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Posted: 11/3/2017 8:08:02 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$17 a mag. Hardly need hundreds. AR mag compatible means I have to buy zero mags. Non-AR mag gun means I have to buy, at least 10. And then I have to keep them separate, I have to remember to swap mags in gear when I switch long guns, etc. I like compatibility. It's more important to me that things are interchangeable than it is to have the most technically superior design. Important enough that if it doesn't take an AR mag and it's 5.56.....will not buy. |
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Posted: 11/3/2017 9:06:46 PM EST
[#48]
Any idea if they are still on for shipping this month? Always wanted a aug cqc but was too slow to get one.
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Posted: 11/3/2017 11:43:26 PM EST
[#49]
I played with the AUG CQC and was disappointed by the weight. That thing is heavy.
This F90 seems like the ticket to rails in the right places, without any weight penalty. |
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Posted: 11/8/2017 3:39:07 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any idea if they are still on for shipping this month? Always wanted a aug cqc but was too slow to get one. At least they're not going full Desert Tech. |
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