Not just helpful explanation Todd, but also exactly what I hoped the can would be. A design optimized to efficiently squeeze performance from the backpressure imposed, rather than a design purely focused on maximizing sound or minimizing backpressure. Coming from y'all, this claim is credible. I can't wait to see the Pew data on it and in particular how it stacks up to RC2.

I don't know if a Sierra 7 would work as well aesthetically with the knurling, but the Sierra 5 just looks "right." Here's hoping this is a legendary can in the making, the kind silencer nerds add to their reference collections just because (like RC2).

@Mageever

Todd, just to confirm, the Sierra 5 is going to be shorter than 5” with a direct thread and not xeno/keymo? In other words, better flash suppression and equivalent/shorter length than a mini 2?

Edit: I have one sitting in my cart pending this question

This may be my long term plan I think.  I really want a mini jack in 5.56 and the Sierra looks like a mini Wolverine so I think they would pair up nicely together.  If I got the mini jack I'd be using one of my other cans in the interim.  

@Mageever


Thoughts on adding the ebrake to this new Sierra?  I absolutely felt it was the best thing I could have ever done for the Sandman K.  Curious if you guys did any testing with an ebrake on the end of a Sierra?

It'll be 5.31" nominal length with direct thread adapter and it'll weigh 13.2 oz.  I recommend getting the Xeno one and just running with that.  The A1 style birdcage is low-key old school, but we have some new devices coming out that you'll dig.  It's also a less expensive price and picking up the LT301 direct thread adapter is cheap and easy.  

Honestly, I only played with the E-Brake on it during development with reduced baffle configurations.  They were all louder than Pappas and I liked.  The high speed tacticool dudes liked those setups, though.  Who knows.  Maybe someday.  

Ordered from Capital Armory.

I didn't know what those brakes were at first, but after having looked its got me wondering, if one were made with slots instead of holes, would they act like the slots on flash hiders and hide flash or just shoot flames of a different shape?

Where they're located, out away from the bore, they'd really work as a flash enhancer.

The e brake on my sandman k did reduce felt recoil when I had it on a 308, but boy it sure kicked up some dirt when in prone. It’s for sure not a bench/sitting still attachment.

Anyone have an idea on how short of a barrel you can get away with to pin/weld a Xeno flash hider and get to a legal 16 inches? 13.7?

The Xeno FH is listed as 2.16” long by DA. If you add a fairly long Custom 3\8” spacer you will still have 1/4” of thread engagement on a typical 5/8” thread journal.  So  that means the Xeno will protrude 2.16”-0.25”= 1.91” of extension.  So 16”-1.91” means you could go as short as 14.09”.  

Realistically a 14.5” is as short as you can go with a small shim spacer needed (16 - (2.16 - 0.625 overlap) = 14.465”.

That has got to be the ugliest can ever...yuck...it will perform great...but yuck...

Knurling doesn't age well either.  Nice high friction surface for grip, but high points wear unevenly and low spots collect grime, or are too easy to fill in with paint when painted.  That’s why suppressor covers were invented.  Or just proudly wear the scars of use.

I actually like how it looks. I’m kind of excited about getting mine. Curious to see how it performs next to my Surefire RC2s.

Great thanks I appreciate the math assistance on that.

I can't believe some of ya'll are bashing this thing cause of the knurling... only on arf


If any of you are curious what the blast baffle looks like, here ya go. Dead Air rep said its probably right over the 1k mark.

Kind of depends on what you think "age well" means.  I think worn knurling looks kick ass.

Well I just paid my SOT for one those knurled bitches today. Got a keymo cause hell, your getting the mount for $89, I'll likely later switch it to xeno, can use the keymo for other stuff as I was looking to get a spare anyway.

Any idea when SS will have them back in stock?

I tried ordering one through my dealer - THSF.  He told me all the ones he’s got coming in are spoken for, but I’ll be on the list for the next shipment whenever that may be.  

This is why I'm an Asylum member who hasn't purchased any brand can other than DA since DA came along.

Among my DA cans, I have a Sandman K and L.  And I'm trying to figure how this fits in with those two.   So if I'm understanding correctly, the S5 will be "quieter" than the K but offer some amount of additional blowback and be a bit longer.    The L will be "quieter" than the others at the cost of additional length, weight, etc.   Do I have that right?

He is my dealer as well! Absolutely top notch. He will take care of you. I drive an hour and half one way to THSF due to the no bullshit level of service to his customers.

I'm really surprised no one's put out a video of them shooting it yet, either with a sound meter or at night under nods.

I realize it'd have to be a dealer using a demo can, but still, I'd think they'd be more stoked to get 'em out.

Hopefully Alabama Arsenal will soon…..

I think your links are broken. Or my work IT is doing it's thing again.

403 forbidden

I was able to get to pages by navigating there via 5.56 cans page. Links did not work for me.

At first I had a wait and see but when I got the in stock notice from Hansohn Bros, just pulled the trigger.

Going to dedicate it to my Cetme L. It will look cool and be fairly short with the Xeno and look good without the can.

Really interested to see how it works with the  roller delayed blowback.

A quick video that was posted on youtube….

https://youtu.be/2QOELPViZr8

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

@ IBSlingin -

Great stuff.  

Seems to be some FRP going on.  After that, not a huge difference in sound level between the cans.  Did you notice FRP in person?

My apologies for the confusion. Not my video. I edited my original post.  
I noticed that also.  Not sure if its the video acoustics, but yeah, there seems to be some FRP.

Different tone to my ear.

I was scratching my head on that.  This can has pretty low FRP.  I'm wondering if it's not the mic "tucking" or adjusting after the first shot.  You can usually hear background noise disappear when this happens, but there's not much there to begin with.

Boy howdy, if only there was a service out there that could objectively characterize the sound performance of this can, including FRP and backpressure, huh? Wouldn't that be neat?

I went back through the thread, and no ones asked yet about poi shift and repeatability, how's the sierra with that?

also, as i understand it on the sandman y'all've said in the past that mb v fh makes no difference in performance, and almost no difference in durability, is that true with the sierra also?

also, also, I don't think any mention has been made specifically of the at ear db's of the sierra, could you expound some there too? I know, it's host dependant, but if you could say a bit about the setups y'all ran in development and the experiences you had with them it'd be awesome.

also, also, also, don't know if you can, but if you can, maybe text silencer shop or something and ecourage them to hurry with the sierra sound metering vid, they seem to be using the same gun for all their metering vids so though it may not be representitive of what'll happen on your rifle it seems a nice metric for comparison; of course pewscience would be better but he said recently on reddit that it's not even in the que yet, so I don't think there's much that can be done to speed things along there.

Anyone know how much clearance you need from barrel to rail length with either mount?

Looking at an upper with a 11.5" barrel/10.8" rail combo and want to verify it'll work before ordering things.

Agree.  FRP was noticeable.

Listening to it with headphones on and you can certainly hear the phones audio limiter kick on after the first shot in each string. I didn’t notice anything like that amount of FRP on the demo can I got to put a few rounds through.

Interesting video

I gotcha.  

Xeno puts the back of the suppressor .20" in front of the muzzle.

KeyMo puts the back of the suppressor .45" behind the muzzle.  

Direct Thread Adapter LT301 (only weighs 1.85 oz.!) puts the back of the suppressor .41" behind the muzzle.

*These assume a thread length of .63" on your barrel.  

Xeno is cool because it lets you get away with the shoulder being a little tucked back underneath a low profile handguard.  I have one like this and the flash hider slots are exactly past the handguard and the Xeno reaches back in underneath.  It's super clean, and as the kids say, it's pretty "sick".

Lol.  Lemme try here....

POI shift
POI shift is as good an any over-the-top claims by other manufacturers.    OK, but seriously, it's a negligible effect from the baffle stack.  BUT... any mass added to your barrel will change both harmonics and how much "droop" it has.  I have one precision rifle that dropped 2 MOA with a muzzle brake.  The suppressor added about 1 MOA.  When that one company started advertising that (Surefire), they're basing it on a rail gun (or whatever they call them) that has barrel that is 2-3" in diameter.  It's a bit of a marketing gimmick nowadays.  All manufacturers are following pretty safe design rules on their suppressors.  

The real issue is not POI shift (accuracy), but precision shift.  Meaning, the groups open up because each time the trigger's pulled the suppressor has wiggled a bit or rotated on the mount.  Direct thread cans that are losing their torque from being hand tighten exhibit this very well.  Super solid lockup on a taper is where it's at.  Lighter cans usually have less effect as well.

Muzzle brake vs FH
The meter might notice muzzle brake vs flash hider.  You shouldn't worry about it.  

At-ear numbers
At-ear numbers are indeed hard.  I've found that I'm getting near identical results to what we see with Sandman-S.  I put suppressors in multiple camps.  There are some that allow the host weapon to be easily tuned for a great shooting experience.  There are some that may need a deeper dive like an adjustable gas port or a new barrel to make them sound good.  Others are the truly lower backpressure cans and they won't require tuning, but you'll have to be careful about sound reflection from the muzzle off surrounding environmental features.  

For a super well dialed in gas system I can get 137 at ear.  This is on a well tuned 16" midlength with a Vltor A5 buffer system.  It's usually dirt too.  That plays into it, lol.  Sandamn-S is often around 141-144 on a fairly normal AR.  Sierra five fits right in with this performance.  

Silencer Shop testing
I will indeed call Silencer Shop.  I understand they're getting things a bit tuned up on their sound testing.  They've seen a lot of variation and some trouble with how their new B&K Pulse system was running.  I think they have that pretty straightened out, though.  I'd like to test here in Utah and then fly there and test at their place and show how manufacturers can provide good, reliable data.  There's a bit of trend to discredit the industry that you can't believe their numbers.  I agree with that in part because there consistently bad actors out there--but--there's also a lot of honest testing going on out there and there's a push to stop that info from getting out.  

There will always be a place for Pew Science and we look forward to him testing it too.  He still has tests on our products that he did over a year ago that he hasn't released, so he may be waiting on the right time to get the data out there.  

wow, way more than i hoped for on all of 'em. many thanks and kudos

You need a 1/2” difference with keymo. Here’s a 10.5” barrel with 10” Geissele handguard

Attached File


Attached File

Just started the Eform 4 on my Sierra 5. Man that's a small can and it feels light. The Xeno mount looks really nice as well.

I'm hoping it'll sound as good on the Cetme L as it's going to look on there.

Ordered my Sierra 5 Xeno but I have a question. When it comes to mount platforms which system actually adds the least amount of length to the host Xeno or Keymo?

Was also wondering about direct thread. Is that going to change the performance vs running one of the mount options?