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That's a "high" adapter in the above pic. Here's one maybe: http://www.fnfal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414564 Or you might try Lucky Irishman Firearms View Quote Don't forget that you'll also need a para stock bolt for the adapter. |
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Yep, that is the high adaptor, from the original Tbas thread. I've also got one of Lear70's, and I think that's probably him in the facepage link. Don't forget that you'll also need a para stock bolt for the adapter. View Quote |
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That's a "high" adapter in the above pic. Here's one maybe: http://www.fnfal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414564 Or you might try Lucky Irishman Firearms View Quote |
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Yep, that is the high adaptor, from the original Tbas thread. I've also got one of Lear70's, and I think that's probably him in the facepage link. Don't forget that you'll also need a para stock bolt for the adapter. View Quote really know the parts differences in internals. I just know to do a para folder swap involves several parts. |
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To answer your question OP, the FAL is still relevant on the current battlefield. Why? Because it works. Armies and security forces around still use them, just like AKs. Will the US adopt it over the Scar-H? No. Then again
the FAL had 60 years to get adopted and was never fielded. |
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Regarding the Para interest...
I've had over a half dozen factory assembled Paras, and just could not warm up to the little stick the action spring rode on. It seems like a failure point, but I never tested it. I only casually shot my paras at the range (low low low volume and no heat / stress). |
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To answer your question OP, the FAL is still relevant on the current battlefield. Why? Because it works. Armies and security forces around still use them, just like AKs. Will the US adopt it over the Scar-H? No. Then again the FAL had 60 years to get adopted and was never fielded. View Quote |
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Why not just take a fighting rifle class with an FAL and deiced for yourself. I have used the FAL on a fighting rifle class and it was fine. the AR15 rifles in the class had more options and did better but I didn't feel that out gunned. You may want to spend a bit of time on the H & K 91/G3 rifle and see what you think of that and then look at all of the worlds militaries that still use it like Iran, Turkey and others. That is a brutal rifle compared to the FAL from the operators standpoint. The point being if the G3 is still relevant then the FAL should be. Brazil uses the FAL still and while they are also using 223 rifles they don't seem under gunned with FALs. I belive Peru or Bolivia just signed a contract to rebuild their FALs and many African game wardens still use FALs so I guess it still can pull it's weight. I to use the AR type rifle for most of my firearms needs but the FAL is still great. I would say that the FAL is like a old K5 Blazer or Toyota FJ. Old slow with few frills but reliable and fun.
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Why not just take a fighting rifle class with an FAL and deiced for yourself. I have used the FAL on a fighting rifle class and it was fine. the AR15 rifles in the class had more options and did better but I didn't feel that out gunned. You may want to spend a bit of time on the H & K 91/G3 rifle and see what you think of that and then look at all of the worlds militaries that still use it like Iran, Turkey and others. That is a brutal rifle compared to the FAL from the operators standpoint. The point being if the G3 is still relevant then the FAL should be. Brazil uses the FAL still and while they are also using 223 rifles they don't seem under gunned with FALs. I belive Peru or Bolivia just signed a contract to rebuild their FALs and many African game wardens still use FALs so I guess it still can pull it's weight. I to use the AR type rifle for most of my firearms needs but the FAL is still great. I would say that the FAL is like a old K5 Blazer or Toyota FJ. Old slow with few frills but reliable and fun. View Quote |
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Well, I've got AR 15, CAR 15 & M14 (select fire), M1A and a real FN/FAL select fire.
I have also shot some of the other similar rifles. I must say that I am NOT the least bit impressed with most of them! I can do anything with my FN/FAL that can be done with any of the others. Since I was raised shooting good heavy all steel/wood full power rifles I have NO problem of any sort with the FN/FAL! Yes I like my CAR 15 and it would be my take along/back up rifle in a SHTF scenario. I also do not have any type of fancy sights on my rifle, just what came from the factory - which is plenty good out to about 500 yds. Since I have also got an advantage over most in the use of rifles in combat - been there done that & have the scars to prove it - I have a pretty good idea of what is required to engage an enemy and survive the encounter! I did, they Didn't! Sarge |
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The really un-special thing about the FAL is its tilting bolt, which is known to cause vertical stringing as a 20 round magazine empties (and the resultant pressure against the bolt changes). What average group sizes do you get out of your highly accurized FAL? View Quote I actually redesigned the bolt somewhat so that the mag no longer puts pressure on the bolt carrier. This is the main reason people have problems being accurate with their FAL. Machining the upper and lower half of the carrier on a FAL just enough that there is no pressure pushing up on the carrier and chambered round from the magazine is the trick to making a FAL accurate. Using a handguard that locks the barrel and piston tube together like the DSA handguard also stops much of the vibration and twist as a round is fired. Enlarging the mouth of the chamber enough to make sure the tips of bullets are not flattened is another thing that must be done. I get under 1'' groups at 100 yards fairly easily. Some groups are larger and sometimes smaller. I consider 1'' to be fairly average if I am not causing larger groups myself. |
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If I woke up in a field with an FAL next to me and a bandolier of mags along with a note saying "people are coming to kill you" I would not feel undergunned.
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The really un-special thing about the FAL is its tilting bolt, which is known to cause vertical stringing as a 20 round magazine empties (and the resultant pressure against the bolt changes). View Quote There are a few ways to get rid of this play and make the problem go away. |
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I'd be curious to hear more from any of you guys about accurizing the FAL, such as the carrier mods that were being discussed. I've been trying to research that subject on and off for a while now, but it's hard to find good info since a certain gunsmith decides to shit up every thread about it on the FALfiles because "it's not how they were issued." It seems like most people are obsessed with recreating Rhodesia, rather than trying to make the FAL better to shoot. The Billabong thread is great, but it's mostly dealing with user interface problems, not really mechanical accuracy.
Should I start a thread on the subject? I think we might have enough participants to maybe get something going. As far as the actual subject of this thread, I'm personally of the opinion that having a reliable rifle, being able to use it, and being wiling to use it puts you ahead of most of this country. The only semi I owned for a long time was my L1A1. |
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N_H: I think that the topic of accurizing the FAL is most certainly worthwhile, but it deserves its own thread.
My FALs are fine as they are in their original trim, but I'd love to see the input of those who have are willing to push the boundaries. |
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I'd like to hear about accurization also. Someone please start a thread.
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I'd be curious to hear more from any of you guys about accurizing the FAL, such as the carrier mods that were being discussed. I've been trying to research that subject on and off for a while now, but it's hard to find good info since a certain gunsmith decides to shit up every thread about it on the FALfiles because "it's not how they were issued." It seems like most people are obsessed with recreating Rhodesia, rather than trying to make the FAL better to shoot. The Billabong thread is great, but it's mostly dealing with user interface problems, not really mechanical accuracy. Should I start a thread on the subject? I think we might have enough participants to maybe get something going. As far as the actual subject of this thread, I'm personally of the opinion that having a reliable rifle, being able to use it, and being wiling to use it puts you ahead of most of this country. The only semi I owned for a long time was my L1A1. View Quote |
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Why not just take a fighting rifle class with an FAL and deiced for yourself. View Quote |
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Eh... I think I'd buy a FAL again (sold my first) if a quality/reputable brand sold one. How badass would it be if FNH made one for US civilians?!
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I don't think FN will ever make them again. They sell the SCAR 17 for way more money, and it's much less expensive to produce.
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Those are Croatian soldiers? Do they still use the FAL? Looks like their indigenous VHS2 is the primary rifle, but they have a mix of stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_Army#Equipment |
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Frankly anything 7.62 NATO is not ideal as a combat rifle.
The FAL is still workable, but you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. I love FALs but it is due to their history more than their capability. I have a G1 and Aussie L1A1, but they are set up in a legacy manner as much as possible, no modern rails and such. |
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It seems like most people are obsessed with recreating Rhodesia, rather than trying to make the FAL better to shoot. View Quote That said a thread on FAL accuracy would be interesting. I'd like to better understand their inherent field accuracy and what it takes to improve it. |
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My first FAL was a SAR-48 Bush rifle with a ARMS cover which had a 2.5x scope attached. Took my longest shot on a whitetail with it at 300m, one shot. Got my second FAL a Belgium 50.63 with a Douglas Premium Match barrel for $1 when in Bad Tolz Germany. Sold it for the same as I couldn't bring it home after Reagan signed the import ban in 88'. I've dug up some buried FALs in Kuwait after GW1 in 94', cleaned them up and they worked fine. I've also been known to leave my M4A1 behind and pick up a FAL for convoy duty in Iraq. Did one jump with one back in 86' at Ft Bliss Tx.
CD |
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Umm, without saying too much. From talking to FN employees at a recent vendor event, don't be too sure of that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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If you're planning on combat, buy the best you can. If you are preparing for a slim chance of having to us it, almost anything works. Does it meet your primary criteria?
Reliability Accuracy needed not wanted Parts availability if needed Ammunition and magazines availability / or stockpiled In shtf a proven military rifle with 1000+ rds and a common caliber that shoots 2-3 moa is better than a custom ar-10 chambered in 260rem that shoots 1/4 - 1/2 moa unless you have tons of ammo stashed everywhere. That being said, a bolt action deer rifle and a handful of bullets should be able to get you a battle rifle and ammo in a shtf situation. It should be gtg. I would rather have an ar-15, ak47, and ak74 for wtf ever happens. Easier to resupply off of what you find on the enemy. |
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Yes.
IMHO most semi auto military rifles developed starting with the Garand are still viable. Might not be my first choice, but still useful. |
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I think it's wrong to tease us like that, LOL. View Quote The gist of the conversation is that FN is looking at re-acquiring the rights to FAL manufacturing and producing a thoroughly modernized FAL rifle. They couldn't (or wouldn't) go much more into it than that. I got the idea that they see a potential market that is currently un fulfilled by the industry, and that the FAL might be the answer to that.. No idea if it will be for us lowly peons, or just military type contracts. |
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The gist of the conversation is that FN is looking at re-acquiring the rights to FAL manufacturing View Quote |
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Why would they need to do that? Why wouldn't they still have everything they need? I can't imagine that they sold all rights and/or tooling to Imbel. I'm pretty certain anyone can produce FAL clones for sale. Any patent protection should have expired long ago. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The gist of the conversation is that FN is looking at re-acquiring the rights to FAL manufacturing |
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I must admit, I did not inquire as to the manufacturing rights and they were fairly coy about it.
I wonder if perhaps they were meaning sole manufacturing rights or some such? |
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Yea I know But a tease is all I really got from them The gist of the conversation is that FN is looking at re-acquiring the rights to FAL manufacturing and producing a thoroughly modernized FAL rifle. They couldn't (or wouldn't) go much more into it than that. I got the idea that they see a potential market that is currently un fulfilled by the industry, and that the FAL might be the answer to that.. No idea if it will be for us lowly peons, or just military type contracts. View Quote |
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Well getting the sights on the same half would have helped but now the key would be getting a good picatinny type mount that isn't a questionable dust cover. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Yea I know But a tease is all I really got from them The gist of the conversation is that FN is looking at re-acquiring the rights to FAL manufacturing and producing a thoroughly modernized FAL rifle. They couldn't (or wouldn't) go much more into it than that. I got the idea that they see a potential market that is currently un fulfilled by the industry, and that the FAL might be the answer to that.. No idea if it will be for us lowly peons, or just military type contracts. |
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If I woke up in a field with an FAL next to me and a bandolier of mags along with a note saying "people are coming to kill you" I would not feel undergunned. View Quote But I once owned a IMBEL FAL. Mechanically It was a fantastic rifle. Ergonomically it was a nightmare. They never fit me right. Stocks are always too long in pull. I always dreamed of a Para FAL with a stock that fit me but never could find one. Both the FAL and G3 were made for Orangutan Arms. The M14 with all of its defects fit me better. But the FAL was never originally intended to be a full size battle rifle. It was meant to fire an intermediate cartridge like the 7.92x33mm Kurtz. Having the rifle adapted to work with 7.62x51mm stretched its limits. Is it outdated? Yes in terms of being a first world military power's service rifle. But it isn't outdated for combat. It will kill someone just was well today as it did 60 years ago. The FAL as a tool for reserve forces is not bad. They work and will do the job. Same with G3s, AKs, M1 Garands, etc.... Personally the AR is my go to rifle. But my Daewoo K2 is always tied with the AR. |
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Quoted: Having the rifle adapted to work with 7.62x51mm stretched its limits. View Quote Secrets of the 8mm FAL revealed! |
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It's a good gun. The only problem with the FAL is size and weight (given you have a properly made one).
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My experience seems to be unique. I had a DSA SA58 Para Elite with a 16" fluted barrel. I bought it for the FAL's legendary reliability and DSA's good reputation. I was looking for something heavy-duty and extremely reliable for post-hurricane and/or future shtf type scenarios (lived in FL). http://willandmeans.com/images/FAL/IMG_0561.JPG First of all, after a few hundred rounds, a casing got stuck in the chamber and wouldn't budge. In pulling the charging handle to attempt to extract the casing, the charging handle BROKE OFF! It was some cast aluminum or pot metal garbage that was disappointing to see on such a supposedly heavy-duty (and relatively pricey) rifle. Talked to DSA and they sent a replacement that was ... made of steel. Much better. http://willandmeans.com/images/FAL/IMG_0548.JPG Fast forward a little bit - from what I understand, in order to facilitate a railed top cover, DSA had to redesign the Recoil Guide Rod (?) and the current design seems to break. During normal shooting at the range, the recoil rod broke, rendering the rifle inoperable. It is just a little metal tail and it broke off completely. Back to DSA, who sent a new one immediately for free. Great CS. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/435611/12342-1--223292.JPG Then it broke again. Same part, same place. I wasn't running a suppressor or doing anything crazy with it. A cursory google search indicated that I wasn't the only one having the problem. DSA happily replaced it again, but I never shot it again. I installed the new recoil rod and sold the gun because I couldn't trust it. I owned it for less than a year, and having 3 show-stopping failures was really disappointing. I don't know if DSA's attempt to modernize the classic gun is where it went wrong, but for me, the DSA FAL was just not at all what I was expecting. My SCAR 17 sbr, on the other hand, has given me exactly zero problems and has been awesome in every way. It eats all ammo, never complains, and never breaks. On top of everything else, it weighs POUNDS less than the FAL did (or at least it feels that way), so it's really a win win win all around. http://willandmeans.com/images/scar17/dsc_0504%20800x531.jpg http://willandmeans.com/images/scar17/dsc_0521%20800x531.jpg View Quote |
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Can I join the orangutan arms club? The rule of thumb I heard for determining correct length of pull is to place the buttstock in the crook of your elbow, between your bicep and forearm. If your hand then naturally grips the pistol grip and places your trigger finger in a good position on the trigger, the LOP is correct. FALs fit perfectly when I do this.
As much as I'd like to believe this is brilliant design, there can't have been as many people this gangly in the 50s. The LOP probably has more to do with the reciprocating distance of the carrier and desired recoil spring force than with any particular ergonomic considerations. On the other hand, Diudonne Saive also designed the FN Hi-Power, which is the best-feeling handgun I've ever held, so maybe he was just a hulking brute of a man. |
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If you can me a M1896 Krag Cavalry Carbine and a Bandoiler of ammo I wouldn't feel undergunned. Same with a FAL. But I once owned a IMBEL FAL. Mechanically It was a fantastic rifle. Ergonomically it was a nightmare. They never fit me right. Stocks are always too long in pull. I always dreamed of a Para FAL with a stock that fit me but never could find one. Both the FAL and G3 were made for Orangutan Arms. The M14 with all of its defects fit me better. But the FAL was never originally intended to be a full size battle rifle. It was meant to fire an intermediate cartridge like the 7.92x33mm Kurtz. Having the rifle adapted to work with 7.62x51mm stretched its limits. Is it outdated? Yes in terms of being a first world military power's service rifle. But it isn't outdated for combat. It will kill someone just was well today as it did 60 years ago. The FAL as a tool for reserve forces is not bad. They work and will do the job. Same with G3s, AKs, M1 Garands, etc.... Personally the AR is my go to rifle. But my Daewoo K2 is always tied with the AR. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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If I woke up in a field with an FAL next to me and a bandolier of mags along with a note saying "people are coming to kill you" I would not feel undergunned. But I once owned a IMBEL FAL. Mechanically It was a fantastic rifle. Ergonomically it was a nightmare. They never fit me right. Stocks are always too long in pull. I always dreamed of a Para FAL with a stock that fit me but never could find one. Both the FAL and G3 were made for Orangutan Arms. The M14 with all of its defects fit me better. But the FAL was never originally intended to be a full size battle rifle. It was meant to fire an intermediate cartridge like the 7.92x33mm Kurtz. Having the rifle adapted to work with 7.62x51mm stretched its limits. Is it outdated? Yes in terms of being a first world military power's service rifle. But it isn't outdated for combat. It will kill someone just was well today as it did 60 years ago. The FAL as a tool for reserve forces is not bad. They work and will do the job. Same with G3s, AKs, M1 Garands, etc.... Personally the AR is my go to rifle. But my Daewoo K2 is always tied with the AR. |
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Can I join the orangutan arms club? The rule of thumb I heard for determining correct length of pull is to place the buttstock in the crook of your elbow, between your bicep and forearm. If your hand then naturally grips the pistol grip and places your trigger finger in a good position on the trigger, the LOP is correct. FALs fit perfectly when I do this. View Quote |
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I have kind of wanted a FAL for a while. But since I got my HK91 recently, I've realized that I don't really want any more .308 "battle rifles" and would prefer to shoot my AR15 type rifles any day. I still have love for them, just as a collector item.
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