User Panel
I'm sure the pending submissions will set until all the lawsuits are done, at which time they will be closed out without approval. However, there is some degree of inequity if in fact the approved applications are let stand and other applications submitted complete and accurate by the advertised deadline are not processed. That is if the unapproved pending applicants argue that it was within the purview of the AG to forbear the tax, they made a valid submission, and others received a benefit they were denied. It will be interesting to see how the whole situation plays out.
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Originally Posted By 3-gun: I agree, if you have an approved form 1 it’s done, but I don’t think they can or will approve what is pending. But who knows about the fatf. I’m sure they will try again but the problem is the long paper trail they have from prior approvals. View Quote I believe the Judge called the ATF attempts to backtrack "arbitrary and capricious." |
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Originally Posted By a390st: I'm sure the pending submissions will set until all the lawsuits are done, at which time they will be closed out without approval. However, there is some degree of inequity if in fact the approved applications are let stand and other applications submitted complete and accurate by the advertised deadline are not processed. That is if the unapproved pending applicants argue that it was within the purview of the AG to forbear the tax, they made a valid submission, and others received a benefit they were denied. It will be interesting to see how the whole situation plays out. View Quote Interesting, haven’t thought about it that way. But you’re correct about the AJ having the authority to waive it. It may be better for them to go ahead and approve them while they decide what to do next. |
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" Don't cry, nobody shoots Glocks anymore."
"But the new Admin. is a Master in IDPA" "MASTER in IDPA..." "is like C Class in IPSC!" |
Originally Posted By a390st: I'm sure the pending submissions will set until all the lawsuits are done, at which time they will be closed out without approval. However, there is some degree of inequity if in fact the approved applications are let stand and other applications submitted complete and accurate by the advertised deadline are not processed. That is if the unapproved pending applicants argue that it was within the purview of the AG to forbear the tax, they made a valid submission, and others received a benefit they were denied. It will be interesting to see how the whole situation plays out. View Quote Kinda what I have been saying, more or less. |
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Originally Posted By a390st: I'm sure the pending submissions will set until all the lawsuits are done, at which time they will be closed out without approval. However, there is some degree of inequity if in fact the approved applications are let stand and other applications submitted complete and accurate by the advertised deadline are not processed. That is if the unapproved pending applicants argue that it was within the purview of the AG to forbear the tax, they made a valid submission, and others received a benefit they were denied. It will be interesting to see how the whole situation plays out. View Quote Why would they approve pending forms for a rule the courts essentially knocked down? “Hey..here is your free approved form for a rule the courts determined is invalid.” Or whatever they decided. Edit: the forms were approved only if the final rule was approved. The final rule was not approved. The pending applications will sit while the rest of the folks with the “approved pending final rule” do nothing. There isn’t a judge who is going to make the ATF convert the approved tax free forms to full SBR approvals. Pending or not, the final rule isn’t approved or removed so it’s a giant nothing burger at this point. |
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I’m still not sure what you said.
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" Don't cry, nobody shoots Glocks anymore."
"But the new Admin. is a Master in IDPA" "MASTER in IDPA..." "is like C Class in IPSC!" |
Originally Posted By durtychemist: the forms were approved only if the final rule was approved. The final rule was not approved. There isn’t a judge who is going to make the ATF convert the approved tax free forms to full SBR approvals View Quote That's not how any of this works. The "approved" forms are just that - approved. They are officially title 2 SBRs. The conditions were on the tax exempt part, not the SBR part. There is no "conversion" needed. Tax exempt forms are processed all the time, there is nothing unique about that. ETA: quote doesn't appear to work, maybe it will later as it shows in preview. |
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Has the ATF appealed the decision in Mock v Garland? They still list the factoring criteria on their website. Seems to me that they must be appealing, otherwise they should remove the rule and update their site to include guidance to people who registered their FreeBR. I agree with those here that say it's registered regardless of the rule and thus legal to put a proper stock or VFG on, but I think the ATF would owe a duty to citizens to also inform them that per the court's ruling, the firearm is not considered to be governed by Title 2 if configured without a stock or VFG. I think that logically that must be the case even though conventional wisdom is that a SBR cannot return to being a pistol but could return to being a Title 1 rifle due to the fact that if left unchanged with a brace, it was never made as a rifle, SBR or otherwise.
caveat: I'm not a lawyer, YMMV, and I intended to actually use the tax exempt pistol braced registrations as SBRs, so this is purely a thought exercise for me. |
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So, uhh, how are those FreeBRs working out now? Rule vacated, right? Still an SBR because registered or nothing burger because no stamp was given?
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Originally Posted By crazyelece: That's not how any of this works. The "approved" forms are just that - approved. They are officially title 2 SBRs. The conditions were on the tax exempt part, not the SBR part. There is no "conversion" needed. Tax exempt forms are processed all the time, there is nothing unique about that. ETA: quote doesn't appear to work, maybe it will later as it shows in preview. View Quote Umm...if they were never a short barreled rifle to begin with they would never have been registered. The conditions were directly tied to the 'SBR part' and the amnesty grace period was for an opportunity to register them. |
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Originally Posted By durtychemist: So, uhh, how are those FreeBRs working out now? Rule vacated, right? Still an SBR because registered or nothing burger because no stamp was given? View Quote Got a signed form 1, that’s all I need. Shot the scorpion Tuesday, will probably shoot the Colt this week |
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" Don't cry, nobody shoots Glocks anymore."
"But the new Admin. is a Master in IDPA" "MASTER in IDPA..." "is like C Class in IPSC!" |
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Originally Posted By durtychemist: Umm...if they were never a short barreled rifle to begin with they would never have been registered. The conditions were directly tied to the 'SBR part' and the amnesty grace period was for an opportunity to register them. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By durtychemist: Originally Posted By crazyelece: That's not how any of this works. The "approved" forms are just that - approved. They are officially title 2 SBRs. The conditions were on the tax exempt part, not the SBR part. There is no "conversion" needed. Tax exempt forms are processed all the time, there is nothing unique about that. ETA: quote doesn't appear to work, maybe it will later as it shows in preview. Umm...if they were never a short barreled rifle to begin with they would never have been registered. The conditions were directly tied to the 'SBR part' and the amnesty grace period was for an opportunity to register them. And yet, all the approved NFA SBR's, remain approved NFA SBR's. By mutual agreement of ATF and registrant that this serial numbered item, with this barrel length, is an SBR, and is made, or remade, or intended - to be a shoulder fired weapon. Application approved, and firearm now classified as a legal NFA registered SBR. USAG, by law, has authority to wave the tax fee - so it stays waved. and those who did so, are now free to put an armbrace back on it, and call it a pistol at their discretion, and cross state-lines etc, as well as put a stock on it and run it as an SBR. More importantly, they also can shoulder fire it - have video record and witnesses showing them shoulder firing it, and say they intended to should fire it - even with a brace, and not be subject to prosecution of having made or remade an SBR subject to evidence of willful intended shoulder firing it. None of the judicial rullings have overturned NFA SBR law - that's still on the books and fairly clearly written. What they did say, in front of wounded vet plaintiffs who needed armbraces to help them fire their pistols as pistols with arm support, was that posession of a <16" firearm called a pistol with an armbrace, is not a crime. They didn't say "and having that on there with intent to shoulder fire it, is also now exempt from NFA law too" I wouldn't advise taking a lot of video or otherwise leaving a digital trail of using and intended to use an arm-brace firearm as a shoulder-fired primary intent, firearm. That same judge will convict you, if ATF can make the case that your intent was to make or remake the gun to be a shoulder fired gun. Not that there are going to be many prosecutions on any of that in any way or anyone regardless... for now. |
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Originally Posted By durtychemist: Umm...if they were never a short barreled rifle to begin with they would never have been registered. The conditions were directly tied to the 'SBR part' and the amnesty grace period was for an opportunity to register them. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By durtychemist: Originally Posted By crazyelece: That's not how any of this works. The "approved" forms are just that - approved. They are officially title 2 SBRs. The conditions were on the tax exempt part, not the SBR part. There is no "conversion" needed. Tax exempt forms are processed all the time, there is nothing unique about that. ETA: quote doesn't appear to work, maybe it will later as it shows in preview. Umm...if they were never a short barreled rifle to begin with they would never have been registered. The conditions were directly tied to the 'SBR part' and the amnesty grace period was for an opportunity to register them. Ummm...you realize this isn't GD right? For the umpteenth time, the conditions were for the "tax free" part. So if it wasn't clear even after you quoted me - "That's not how any of this works" |
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What is ATF's plan for pending submissions? I would think at some point they would be required to approve all pending submissions or void/deny them. .
Mine are all still pending, so I asked for a status update. Waiting for the canned generic response. |
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A technical question. Approved forms with ATF signatures but personal info blurred out wad Posted on reddit. How many of these were then photoshopped or altered in camva to go around the atf?
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"Some people have issues. Sounds like he signed up for an entire subscription." ~Brohawk
Proud member of Team Ranstad. Arfcom St Jude Mafia 3 years Arfcom callsign: trenchfoot |
Originally Posted By durtychemist: Umm...if they were never a short barreled rifle to begin with they would never have been registered. The conditions were directly tied to the 'SBR part' and the amnesty grace period was for an opportunity to register them. View Quote I believe that the conditions on the approved Form 1s refer to the conditions under which they approved it without collecting the $200 tax, not conditions on which the firearm is regulated. My take is that you have an approved Form 1 and can treat it like an SBR including installing a proper stock and a VFG. Given the injunction, and assuming the ruling it upheld, I expect you could just forget that it was registered as a NFA item and continue treating it as a pistol (CCW, travel across state lines, etc) because the courts have said it isn't subject to the NFA and you never actually made it into a "rifle" and it isn't made "from a rifle". IMO, best of both worlds. |
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The propagandist interviewer at the NASCAR race wasn’t trying to make it positive- she was covering for her party. Let’s go Brandon is as much about the total propaganda and incompetence from the news as it is about Biden...
-scrum |
Originally Posted By Rope-A-Dope: Please post an update if you get a response. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Rope-A-Dope: Originally Posted By O1gagt: Mine are all still pending, so I asked for a status update. Waiting for the canned generic response. Please post an update if you get a response. They have consistently said that they are not processing applications pending resolution of the legal cases. Things are going to remain in a holding pattern, according to everything that's come out of the call line to date. They have the legal authority to process the remaining applications, but are choosing not to because the conditions under which they were accepted aren't in place at the moment. |
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