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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/12/2014 3:17:59 PM EDT
[#1]
TSG! I have a question for you regarding the Defense Vault (DV652): is it possible to anchor the safe using the holes on the top of the safe to the underside of a bed frame? Reason I ask is that I do not want to drill holes in the wood floors in the bedroom.
Thanks in advance! |
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Posted: 6/12/2014 4:08:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HWIII:
TSG! I have a question for you regarding the Defense Vault (DV652): is it possible to anchor the safe using the holes on the top of the safe to the underside of a bed frame? Reason I ask is that I do not want to drill holes in the wood floors in the bedroom. Thanks in advance! Yes, that was intended in the design. You will need to use large fender washers to make a secure install. |
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Posted: 6/17/2014 1:09:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Another survival story. I have not confirmed it yet, but I believe this is an AMSEC BF6636.
In May of 2014, a wildfire roared through the Carlsbad community in Southern California, damaging 600 acres of land and dozens of homes. Once the fire was contained, many evacuated residents of the area came back to homes that had been completely destroyed. But for at least one family, all was not lost. Anya Bannasch reached out to AMSEC on our Facebook page, with her amazing story: The fire at times reach 60 feet in height and the hot winds blew it so fast at my parents house that the firemen couldn’t do anything to stop it. My parents were at my aunts house and my brother who was living with my parents at the time was at work. I was also working, so by the time we got to their house everything was ash. There was absolutely nothing saved. We all started to cry. All our memories, photos of us, everything was gone. Then my dad yelled “the safe is still standing!” We opened the safe and all my parents important papers, birth certificates, wedding rings etc were saved! We couldn’t believe it! In the entire house the safe was the only thing not burned to the ground.
My family and I couldn’t thank you enough. We recommended a fire safe to everyone we know. Your fire safe put a smile on our faces, we thanked The Lord at least something survived. Thank you thank you thank you!!!! 
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Posted: 6/17/2014 1:55:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JE3146]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Another survival story. I have not confirmed it yet, but I believe this is an AMSEC BF6636. [div style='margin-left: 40px;'] In May of 2014, a wildfire roared through the Carlsbad community in Southern California, damaging 600 acres of land and dozens of homes. Once the fire was contained, many evacuated residents of the area came back to homes that had been completely destroyed. But for at least one family, all was not lost. Anya Bannasch reached out to AMSEC on our Facebook page, with her amazing story: http://www.amsecusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/CarlsbadFire2014a.jpg http://www.amsecusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/CarlsbadFire2014b.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Another survival story. I have not confirmed it yet, but I believe this is an AMSEC BF6636. [div style='margin-left: 40px;'] In May of 2014, a wildfire roared through the Carlsbad community in Southern California, damaging 600 acres of land and dozens of homes. Once the fire was contained, many evacuated residents of the area came back to homes that had been completely destroyed. But for at least one family, all was not lost. Anya Bannasch reached out to AMSEC on our Facebook page, with her amazing story: The fire at times reach 60 feet in height and the hot winds blew it so fast at my parents house that the firemen couldn’t do anything to stop it. My parents were at my aunts house and my brother who was living with my parents at the time was at work. I was also working, so by the time we got to their house everything was ash. There was absolutely nothing saved. We all started to cry. All our memories, photos of us, everything was gone. Then my dad yelled “the safe is still standing!” We opened the safe and all my parents important papers, birth certificates, wedding rings etc were saved! We couldn’t believe it! In the entire house the safe was the only thing not burned to the ground.
My family and I couldn’t thank you enough. We recommended a fire safe to everyone we know. Your fire safe put a smile on our faces, we thanked The Lord at least something survived. Thank you thank you thank you!!!! http://www.amsecusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/CarlsbadFire2014a.jpg http://www.amsecusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/CarlsbadFire2014b.jpg The gun looks pretty rusted though, but amazing testimonial nonetheless. What can be done to prevent the steam from ruining the metal like that? Gun socks? |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 6/17/2014 2:04:26 PM EDT
[#5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmoline :-)
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Posted: 6/17/2014 2:35:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JE3146]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cj_the_pj:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmoline :-)  anything other than storage grease?
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Posted: 6/17/2014 2:51:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JE3146:
The gun looks pretty rusted though, but amazing testimonial nonetheless. What can be done to prevent the steam from ruining the metal like that? Gun socks? That safe went thru hell. I would guess that safe sat in flames for 3-5 hours. We watched that fire on the news, and we have a friend that lost a home in that same area. Once the fire got started on the homes that burned, the fire department moved out and let them go. They could not stick around to cool things off, because they were in the path of a firestorm. At that advanced degree of exposure, there is not much you can do. I would suggest that the use of a sealed box would help with the steam exposure, but unless it was metal, not sure it would have held up. There are some tell-tale clues about how hot that safe was inside, and frankly it was probably up at 350º or more. Most plastics soften and relax at those temperatures, so a plastic case would probably fail. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 6/17/2014 3:20:03 PM EDT
[#8]
didnt you previously say the pelicans would be good due to the addition of fiberglass and other composites?
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Posted: 6/17/2014 4:01:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cj_the_pj:
didnt you previously say the pelicans would be good due to the addition of fiberglass and other composites? That wasn't me. I don't know what composites Pelican may use. It's all about the plastics reaching their elastic state, and those temperatures are not real high. Tupperware and similar containers have interlocking snap seals, so the container can go all soft, but the seals will likely hold in reasonably hot conditions (up to maybe 400ºF). Any long-gun case has point locks, where the latches are spread over the length of the case. The seal lines between lock points can open if the case reaches an elastic state. I'm looking at tables that suggest that is generally well under the 350º limit that we consider an acceptable maximum. These conditions are unusual, and I don't see anyone publishing high temperature sealed container performance ratings for plastic containers of any kind. Maybe Pelican knows their limits, but they don't publish them. They say they are rated up to 210ºF, which agrees with other plastic deformation data that is openly published. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2014 10:18:39 AM EDT
[#10]
TSG-
First I would like to thank you for all of the vaulable information you have contributed. I've been looking for a new safe to replace my current one that I've outgrown and had decided on a Ft Knox until I found this thread. I was wondering if you would answer a few questions for me regarding the CFX703620? 1. Is the only difference between the CFX703620 and RFX703620 the interior and lock options? 2. Can you order the CFX with the gun interior? 3. Can you order the CFX with the ESL20XL and high security key lock / glass relocking mechanism? 4. For the anchor hole, is it just one anchor point in the center or 1 on all 4 corners? I appreciate your time and thank you in advance for answering my questions! |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2014 11:54:14 AM EDT
[#11]
scroll back a few pages or search for cfx, cause we talked about this before...
you can order it however you want, rfx is the nice version... and can have gun safe interior... and door organizer... i have the cfx(more commercial but)..., with gun safe, door org, glass relock, aux key, and bolt down hole... which is one, in the middle of safe. remember its also 4600 pounds... i have a picture when they set it in place, go back and look. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2014 1:46:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Thanks for the info..., I saw your posts and pics which made me think about getting the CFX line vs the rfx. You got yours from WCS if I remember correctly... How did the price compare getting the cfx with all of your options vs the rfx?
Thanks in advance! |
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USA
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Posted: 6/18/2014 2:10:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Bolt down is an option but at nearly 5000lbs, I don't think it's going anywhere. Depending on where you set it, unless it perfectly level, it will need to be shimmed, which will give access to the bolt., granted not going to be easy, but I would love to see some punks trying to steal a 3-5k lbs safe.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2014 3:45:05 PM EDT
[#14]
i dont remember the comparison if there was one, but basically it is the same safe - when you option it out to be more commercial like i did, they drop the R and make it a C and thats whats ordered... just factory stuff for them to reference, i could of probably got the cfx model and had it in glossy racecar red - its all semantics,
i got the other stuff to be able to have a potential future resale market should i go bigger or move or whatever you know? i think jewelers or others would want the options i got vs the random civilian guy wanting to get the safe, thus keeping my options open for more buyers if i trade up or out. |
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Posted: 6/18/2014 3:58:49 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Another survival story. I have not confirmed it yet, but I believe this is an AMSEC BF6636. [div style='margin-left: 40px;'] In May of 2014, a wildfire roared through the Carlsbad community in Southern California, damaging 600 acres of land and dozens of homes. Once the fire was contained, many evacuated residents of the area came back to homes that had been completely destroyed. But for at least one family, all was not lost. Anya Bannasch reached out to AMSEC on our Facebook page, with her amazing story: http://www.amsecusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/CarlsbadFire2014a.jpg http://www.amsecusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/CarlsbadFire2014b.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Another survival story. I have not confirmed it yet, but I believe this is an AMSEC BF6636. [div style='margin-left: 40px;'] In May of 2014, a wildfire roared through the Carlsbad community in Southern California, damaging 600 acres of land and dozens of homes. Once the fire was contained, many evacuated residents of the area came back to homes that had been completely destroyed. But for at least one family, all was not lost. Anya Bannasch reached out to AMSEC on our Facebook page, with her amazing story: The fire at times reach 60 feet in height and the hot winds blew it so fast at my parents house that the firemen couldn’t do anything to stop it. My parents were at my aunts house and my brother who was living with my parents at the time was at work. I was also working, so by the time we got to their house everything was ash. There was absolutely nothing saved. We all started to cry. All our memories, photos of us, everything was gone. Then my dad yelled “the safe is still standing!” We opened the safe and all my parents important papers, birth certificates, wedding rings etc were saved! We couldn’t believe it! In the entire house the safe was the only thing not burned to the ground.
My family and I couldn’t thank you enough. We recommended a fire safe to everyone we know. Your fire safe put a smile on our faces, we thanked The Lord at least something survived. Thank you thank you thank you!!!! http://www.amsecusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/CarlsbadFire2014a.jpg http://www.amsecusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/CarlsbadFire2014b.jpg I have never seen a BF6636 With that sort of lower shelving. I have seen the 7240 with that sort though. Whatever safe it was it saved the day. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 1:41:13 PM EDT
[#16]
A local PD is selling a "safe" they are advertising as an Amsec model 6040 w lte f 8k.
I get that it is a 60x40 size. Can you advise as to weight and likely specs? The door appears to have internal hinges,so i assume it is not removable for transport. Seeial number as advertized is KS 178981 |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 2:00:06 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By heeler1:
I have never seen a BF6636 With that sort of lower shelving. I have seen the 7240 with that sort though. Whatever safe it was it saved the day. You are correct, that is a BF7240. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 2:18:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kcgunesq:
A local PD is selling a "safe" they are advertising as an Amsec model 6040 w lte f 8k. I get that it is a 60x40 size. Can you advise as to weight and likely specs? The door appears to have internal hinges,so i assume it is not removable for transport. Seeial number as advertized is KS 178981 That Serial Number is not coming up in our records. The KS prefix indicates it has an e-lock option installed. Our numbering system has meaning: The W indicates it was a special edition for a key dealer with some options that were not standard equipment, I have no way to identify the options that may have been added. The LTE means it is a standard "Cascade" 6040 that was domestic manufactured textured finish with Chrome hardware, Ell Handle, 2-Layer 11 Ga Pan Door (one layer of gyp inside) and 11 Ga body. "F" means it has the Fire Liner (I think single layer). 8K is probably actually BK, which is the Textured Black color. It is an older safe, and pre-dates our improved record keeping systems, which would mean it was manufactured before 2005. The published weight was 960 lbs. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 3:40:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Perfect. Thx!
And, yes, it is shown with an e lock. |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 11:11:04 PM EDT
[#20]
TSG & friends, please feel free to comment in this GD thread on electronic locks.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1636398_Electronic_safe_lock_fail.html |
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Posted: 6/20/2014 9:49:55 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kcgunesq:
Perfect. Thx! And, yes, it is shown with an e lock. If you get the EL Serial Number from the e-lock, we can get the date of manufacture. |
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Posted: 6/21/2014 7:10:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Thanks. Given its weight, I don't think I'm interested. I already have one
AmSec in this size range.. Depending on the weight and where it goes price wise, I was willing to keep an eye on it. But at 1,000lb, it would probably cost me as much to move it as I pay for it. Not a bad deal necessarily, but not something high on my list either. If anyone in the KCMO area wants details, let me know. But if you google the two or three larger local auction firms, you should find it easily. |
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Posted: 6/22/2014 6:37:44 PM EDT
[#23]
Hi TSG, in the Hamilton damaged/repaired safe thread today you mentioned AMSEC sells to Diebold. Quick question, does AMSEC make the bond boxes (bond tins) used in the bank vault safe deposit boxes. If not, might you know who makes them? Thank you.
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Posted: 6/22/2014 7:09:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BGENE:
Hi TSG, in the Hamilton damaged/repaired safe thread today you mentioned AMSEC sells to Diebold. Quick question, does AMSEC make the bond boxes (bond tins) used in the bank vault safe deposit boxes. If not, might you know who makes them? Thank you. Diebold is in the middle of a significant re-organization. They own a factory that made the deposit box nests for them, but I think they sold that unit off and started buying from a Canadian company. I know more, but I probably should not share. There must be tons of SD boxes on the used market. Banks have been closing branches all over the country for two years now, and lots of used equipment is out there for sale. Look around, there are probably bargains to be had. |
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Posted: 6/22/2014 7:49:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Diebold is in the middle of a significant re-organization. They own a factory that made the deposit box nests for them, but I think they sold that unit off and started buying from a Canadian company. I know more, but I probably should not share. There must be tons of SD boxes on the used market. Banks have been closing branches all over the country for two years now, and lots of used equipment is out there for sale. Look around, there are probably bargains to be had. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By BGENE:
Hi TSG, in the Hamilton damaged/repaired safe thread today you mentioned AMSEC sells to Diebold. Quick question, does AMSEC make the bond boxes (bond tins) used in the bank vault safe deposit boxes. If not, might you know who makes them? Thank you. Diebold is in the middle of a significant re-organization. They own a factory that made the deposit box nests for them, but I think they sold that unit off and started buying from a Canadian company. I know more, but I probably should not share. There must be tons of SD boxes on the used market. Banks have been closing branches all over the country for two years now, and lots of used equipment is out there for sale. Look around, there are probably bargains to be had. Thank you, what I am looking for is custom sizes of the bond boxes, the standard are roughly 22 inches deep. I was looking for shallow boxes to pull straight off of a TL safe shelf and the ability to stack. The bond boxes are perfect, no fluff, no extra curves, no extra lips, no thick walls, just pure storage with their thin metal frame. I bought a couple and I am using them length way but straight pull out would be perfect. I have not found a source for a shallow bond box. |
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Posted: 6/28/2014 9:36:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Macumazahn]
[#26]
TSG,
I'm looking at the TF5517 or TF5924 or BF6024. The first is a good bit less expensive. It is a good safe? Any pros and cons for it? Cash is a big limitation at this time, and I'm looking to get a reasonable bit of protection from fire, and burglary, but I understand that they are definitely not as secure as the higher end safes. Thanks |
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Posted: 6/30/2014 2:37:37 AM EDT
[#27]
Supposedly my safe shipped last week. Finished making preparations for it this weekend.
Never thought I'd be excited for a steel box, but I kinda am. 
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Posted: 6/30/2014 8:16:41 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JE3146:
Supposedly my safe shipped last week. Finished making preparations for it this weekend. Never thought I'd be excited for a steel box, but I kinda am. I'm envious! |
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Posted: 6/30/2014 6:31:26 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Macumazahn:
TSG, I'm looking at the TF5517 or TF5924 or BF6024. The first is a good bit less expensive. It is a good safe? Any pros and cons for it? The TF safes are the economy line, but they are better than any other low-end line in the market. We have added several improvements that the others don't have, including a real lock rather than a cheap open-wheel combo lock or the cheesy e-lock with a solenoid in the back. You will not be disappointed with a TF safe. The BF6024 is our new Closet model in the BF Line. This is a premium fire and burglary safe, downsized for closet fit. |
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Posted: 6/30/2014 6:33:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Just a quick note to those that were asking... The RF and RFX lines now have their own fitted Premium Door Organized (PDO). All future orders will be equipped with this version if the option is ordered.
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Posted: 6/30/2014 6:34:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
The TF safes are the economy line, but they are better than any other low-end line in the market. We have added several improvements that the others don't have, including a real lock rather than a cheap open-wheel combo lock or the cheesy e-lock with a solenoid in the back. You will not be disappointed with a TF safe. The BF6024 is our new Closet model in the BF Line. This is a premium fire and burglary safe, downsized for closet fit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By Macumazahn:
TSG, I'm looking at the TF5517 or TF5924 or BF6024. The first is a good bit less expensive. It is a good safe? Any pros and cons for it? The TF safes are the economy line, but they are better than any other low-end line in the market. We have added several improvements that the others don't have, including a real lock rather than a cheap open-wheel combo lock or the cheesy e-lock with a solenoid in the back. You will not be disappointed with a TF safe. The BF6024 is our new Closet model in the BF Line. This is a premium fire and burglary safe, downsized for closet fit. Thanks TSG, appreciate the info. I'll probably go with the TF series for now. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/30/2014 10:20:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Hi TSG,
Are the shelves being cut back on the RF to accommodate the new PDO? Will the PDO be offered as an aftermarket option for existing units and would it even work (depth wise). There does not seem to be much space between the door and the shelves in a original configuration of an RF. Thanks |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2014 12:20:51 AM EDT
[#33]
Do you have a rough idea on the weight of the door on the BF6030? There's a local rental company with a "climbing" safe lift rated up to 600 pounds. I'd like a bigger safe but I like the construction on the BF series. I'm assuming it's a fair bit superior the the SF series as far as attacks go. Thanks for all the posts in this section. They've been very helpful.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2014 9:25:35 AM EDT
[#34]
RFX.. is that carpet on the back? damnit why didnt i know about that option! LOL
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Posted: 7/1/2014 9:06:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JE3146]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By perpetual_fng:
I'm envious! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By perpetual_fng:
Originally Posted By JE3146:
Supposedly my safe shipped last week. Finished making preparations for it this weekend. Never thought I'd be excited for a steel box, but I kinda am. I'm envious! Thanks TSG! Love it. Now the fun begins setting it up. 
EDIT:: TSG, Does AMSEC sell extra PDO velcro holsters? If not, are there any products you would recommend? |
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USA
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Posted: 7/2/2014 11:58:53 AM EDT
[#36]
TheSafeGuy,
I am considering a new lock replace my AMSEC, ESL-10 electronic lock. The ESL-10 electronic lock is attached to a 2.5 year old AMSEC safe.. Yesterday, I went to open my safe and the keypad was acting up (see thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_46/427253_Gun_safe_not_opening.html). Original post: Originally Posted By slayerized6:
I have an Amsec safe with an Amsec ESL-10 electronic keypad. Starting an hour ago, I can not open my safe. Normally, to open the safe, it's C-x-x-x-x-x-x-#; I would normally get a chirp each time I hit a button on the keypad. Now, the only time I get a chirp is when I hit the C button.sometimes it chirps when I hit the 2 or 6 but nothing else. I just changed the batteries too, so that's not the prob. I last opened it yesterday and didnt hear/see/feel anything of out the ordinary. Any ideas? Luckily, I was able to pick up a new ESL-10 lock and keypad set the next day (today) and replace the keypad. I was able to open the door no problem. I tested the new keypad a few times with the door open and its functioned without a hitch. I do not know what caused the keypad to malfunction and that caused me a lot of worry. Luckily, I didn't "need" to get into the safe for anything at that time and I'm glad it was only a few hours I couldn't get into the safe. However, I do not want this to happen again. Would it be advisable and better-off to switch to a mechanical combo lock? Or is there any other brands of electronic locks that have a better rep than AMSEC's ESL-10 (Lagard, Sargent & Greenleaf, etc)? -Thank You |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 9:42:42 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JE3146:
TSG, Does AMSEC sell extra DPO velcro holsters? If not, are there any products you would recommend? Yes, ask your dealer for part number 1335358. They aren't expensive. |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 10:01:29 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By slayerized6:
TheSafeGuy, I am considering a new lock replace my AMSEC, ESL-10 electronic lock. The ESL-10 electronic lock is attached to a 2.5 year old AMSEC safe.. Yesterday, I went to open my safe and the keypad was acting up (see thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_46/427253_Gun_safe_not_opening.html). Original post: Luckily, I was able to pick up a new ESL-10 lock and keypad set the next day (today) and replace the keypad. I was able to open the door no problem. I tested the new keypad a few times with the door open and its functioned without a hitch. I do not know what caused the keypad to malfunction and that caused me a lot of worry. Luckily, I didn't "need" to get into the safe for anything at that time and I'm glad it was only a few hours I couldn't get into the safe. However, I do not want this to happen again. Would it be advisable and better-off to switch to a mechanical combo lock? Or is there any other brands of electronic locks that have a better rep than AMSEC's ESL-10 (Lagard, Sargent & Greenleaf, etc)? -Thank You Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By slayerized6:
TheSafeGuy, I am considering a new lock replace my AMSEC, ESL-10 electronic lock. The ESL-10 electronic lock is attached to a 2.5 year old AMSEC safe.. Yesterday, I went to open my safe and the keypad was acting up (see thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_46/427253_Gun_safe_not_opening.html). Original post: Originally Posted By slayerized6:
I have an Amsec safe with an Amsec ESL-10 electronic keypad. Starting an hour ago, I can not open my safe. Normally, to open the safe, it's C-x-x-x-x-x-x-#; I would normally get a chirp each time I hit a button on the keypad. Now, the only time I get a chirp is when I hit the C button.sometimes it chirps when I hit the 2 or 6 but nothing else. I just changed the batteries too, so that's not the prob. I last opened it yesterday and didnt hear/see/feel anything of out the ordinary. Any ideas? Luckily, I was able to pick up a new ESL-10 lock and keypad set the next day (today) and replace the keypad. I was able to open the door no problem. I tested the new keypad a few times with the door open and its functioned without a hitch. I do not know what caused the keypad to malfunction and that caused me a lot of worry. Luckily, I didn't "need" to get into the safe for anything at that time and I'm glad it was only a few hours I couldn't get into the safe. However, I do not want this to happen again. Would it be advisable and better-off to switch to a mechanical combo lock? Or is there any other brands of electronic locks that have a better rep than AMSEC's ESL-10 (Lagard, Sargent & Greenleaf, etc)? -Thank You Full disclosure.... Although the ESL10 is the best performing lock in the industry, there is one failure mode that we have tracked and identified, and that failure mode has symptoms that are very close to the problem you describe. My recommendation is that you install the new lock if you already have a kit. That would be a precautionary move, but I would do it if it were my safe. The problem you describe could have been just a simple keypad issue, but there is some chance this is the failure mode I am warning about here, and it can result in a lockout. The actual root cause is a cracked capacitor on one of the CPU inputs, which builds a charge that holds the input locked high so the transient keypad input signals are masked. Some of the time, an extended power-down will dissipate the charge and allow a one-shot opening before it gets loaded up again. We usually avoid a drill job with this technique, but safe techs that don't call AMSEC for assistance don't get this tidbit of wisdom, and drill the safes in a hasty rush to get the safe open. There are a lot of guys out there that would love to drill your box and charge a lot more, and how would you ever know they did you a disservice due to a lack of knowledge? Any good safe tech should call for a consult before putting a hole in the door. We have a war chest with lots of tricks that have evolved for every lock type and brand. This is one of the reasons AMSEC has such a highly regarded service record. |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 10:08:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swampboogiereed:
Do you have a rough idea on the weight of the door on the BF6030? There's a local rental company with a "climbing" safe lift rated up to 600 pounds. I'd like a bigger safe but I like the construction on the BF series. I'm assuming it's a fair bit superior the the SF series as far as attacks go. Thanks for all the posts in this section. They've been very helpful. The Door of a BF6030 weighs approximately 285 lbs. |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 10:12:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guggep:
Hi TSG, Are the shelves being cut back on the RF to accommodate the new PDO? Will the PDO be offered as an aftermarket option for existing units and would it even work (depth wise). There does not seem to be much space between the door and the shelves in a original configuration of an RF. Thanks On the models that did not already have enough space for the PDO are getting sized down a bit in production. It seems to be a mixed bag, so not all models need the interior adjusted. If you put a notebook on the rack, and shut the door so the door pushes the notebook back on the shelf, then open the door, you can quickly see what the clearance will be by how much the notebook overhangs the shelf. The safes that will take the PDO without interior adjustments will have 2-3 inches of clearance. |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 10:13:58 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guggep:
Hi TSG, Are the shelves being cut back on the RF to accommodate the new PDO? Will the PDO be offered as an aftermarket option for existing units and would it even work (depth wise). There does not seem to be much space between the door and the shelves in a original configuration of an RF. Thanks We will be offering a PDO retrofit soon. I will advise when it is ready. |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 10:16:09 PM EDT
[#42]
Any good safe tech should call for a consult before putting a hole in the door. We have a war chest with lots of tricks that have evolved for every lock type and brand Any good tech wouldn't need to call, because they already know how to properly diagnose and deal with these issues. 
I have encountered a number of "locksmiths" who's first and only answer is to drill a safe. This isn't always because they can charge more. In fact, many are scared to death, not knowing if or how they would be successful. They drill because they bought a rig, watched a video, and are now "expert" safe crackers. If you ever have a safe problem and have a professional come over to assist, there's one thing that you should pay attention to. When you let them in, watch what they are carrying with them. If a drill is one of the first tools in the door, it will be one of the first tools used on the safe. When I'm called out on a safe job, I rarely carry anything in with me. That's because my eyes, ears, and brain are the first thing I will use on a safe, and I already have those with me. That, and I'm lazy. No need to carry in a bunch of unnecessary stuff. |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 10:16:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cj_the_pj:
RFX.. is that carpet on the back? damnit why didnt i know about that option! LOL That was a surprise for me too. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/4/2014 12:32:08 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By a1abdj:
Any good tech wouldn't need to call, because they already know how to properly diagnose and deal with these issues.
I have encountered a number of "locksmiths" who's first and only answer is to drill a safe. This isn't always because they can charge more. In fact, many are scared to death, not knowing if or how they would be successful. They drill because they bought a rig, watched a video, and are now "expert" safe crackers. If you ever have a safe problem and have a professional come over to assist, there's one thing that you should pay attention to. When you let them in, watch what they are carrying with them. If a drill is one of the first tools in the door, it will be one of the first tools used on the safe. When I'm called out on a safe job, I rarely carry anything in with me. That's because my eyes, ears, and brain are the first thing I will use on a safe, and I already have those with me. That, and I'm lazy. No need to carry in a bunch of unnecessary stuff. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By a1abdj:
Any good safe tech should call for a consult before putting a hole in the door. We have a war chest with lots of tricks that have evolved for every lock type and brand Any good tech wouldn't need to call, because they already know how to properly diagnose and deal with these issues.
I have encountered a number of "locksmiths" who's first and only answer is to drill a safe. This isn't always because they can charge more. In fact, many are scared to death, not knowing if or how they would be successful. They drill because they bought a rig, watched a video, and are now "expert" safe crackers. If you ever have a safe problem and have a professional come over to assist, there's one thing that you should pay attention to. When you let them in, watch what they are carrying with them. If a drill is one of the first tools in the door, it will be one of the first tools used on the safe. When I'm called out on a safe job, I rarely carry anything in with me. That's because my eyes, ears, and brain are the first thing I will use on a safe, and I already have those with me. That, and I'm lazy. No need to carry in a bunch of unnecessary stuff. Unfortunately, your level of expertise seems to be rare. |
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Posted: 7/4/2014 1:36:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TXBO:
Unfortunately, your level of expertise seems to be rare. You would be right on that point. Wild guess, only about 10-15% of the safe techs out there are really good. Frank is a 5%er, top of the scale. I would normally argue with someone that says they don't need to consult with the factory before a setting up the drill rig, but I didn't do that with Frank... but I would take a wager that we have a few tricks and secret weapons he doesn't know about. We have a hard policy that a tech working on a safe under warranty MUST have factory authorization to do ANY work. If a safe is drilled without our consent, we will not pay the service invoice, even if it's only a week old. Most techs know this, so it's not a surprise or a problem. Many companies have this rule.. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/4/2014 11:22:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Thanks TSG! Love it. Now the fun begins setting it up.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RMsjrZShJjs/U7MxZpilRbI/AAAAAAAAotM/i0nCOB_EQhM/w282-h498-no/2014-07-01 What color safe is this? Also, what do you have it sitting on? |
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Posted: 7/5/2014 1:02:27 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VentEnterSearch:
Thanks TSG! Love it. Now the fun begins setting it up. https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RMsjrZShJjs/U7MxZpilRbI/AAAAAAAAotM/i0nCOB_EQhM/w282-h498-no/2014-07-01 What color safe is this? Also, what do you have it sitting on? The picture is bad. It looks like the Sandstone. If the finish is glossy, that would be the Pearl. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/5/2014 3:01:46 AM EDT
[#48]
Hey TSG, I just got my BF7240 with the redundant combo Lagard lock.
It is sitting by my front door on the pallet. One heavy SOB! I have to move it into my Man Cave now. Thanks again for all the info. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/5/2014 9:44:09 AM EDT
[#49]
Tony/Frank,
Since AMSEC is currently offering the LaGard 6441 redundant locks, would you mind commenting on your opinion of them, including regarding reliability/durability? Being a 4-wheel, Group 1 mechanical / electronic lock which requires mechanical retraction of the bolt (via dial rotation) rather than solenoid actuated bolt retraction, they "appeal" to customers who want high security, and who want the convenience of an electronic keypad, without the fear of potential lockout from an unexpected failure of the electronic lock. Also, since they went back into production, is the new production version materially different from the old, discontinued production version (internally)? Would enjoy hearing all the details from the experts (you and Frank).. ... ... Thanks. |
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Posted: 7/5/2014 10:09:17 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Col_B:
Tony/Frank, Since AMSEC is currently offering the LaGard 6441 redundant locks, would you mind commenting on your opinion of them, including regarding reliability/durability? Being a 4-wheel, Group 1 mechanical / electronic lock which requires mechanical retraction of the bolt (via dial rotation) rather than solenoid actuated bolt retraction, they "appeal" to customers who want high security, and who want the convenience of an electronic keypad, without the fear of potential lockout from an unexpected failure of the electronic lock. Also, since they went back into production, is the new production version materially different from the old, discontinued production version (internally)? Would enjoy hearing all the details from the experts (you and Frank).. ... ... Thanks. That lock has never been hugely popular. My guess is that we have installed maybe 50 of them in the 12-13 years since it came out. So, the statistics on that lock are not really robust, since the population is small. I do believe there have been issues, but as I recall it was generally due to the complex nature of the installation that resulted in service calls. I seem to remember at least one incident where the solenoid leads failed from fatigue in high cycle use. The Solenoid rides on the moving lever, and the wires are subject to constant flexing with every opening. But again, that could have been an installation related issue too. For the most part, I think the lock has been solid. As far as the design, I'm pretty sure it's the same as it was before. |
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