User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/6/2014 3:35:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JE3146]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
The picture is bad. It looks like the Sandstone. If the finish is glossy, that would be the Pearl. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By VentEnterSearch:
Thanks TSG! Love it. Now the fun begins setting it up. https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RMsjrZShJjs/U7MxZpilRbI/AAAAAAAAotM/i0nCOB_EQhM/w282-h498-no/2014-07-01 What color safe is this? Also, what do you have it sitting on? The picture is bad. It looks like the Sandstone. If the finish is glossy, that would be the Pearl. Was 100+ degrees in the garage that day. (absolute fluke, maybe 1 day every couple years gets that hot). I took that photo with my phone and ran inside to the AC 
It's the sandstone with black nickel. Also it's on hockey pucks, so 1" elevated. Then I used nested 1" needle bearings to protect the stainless anchor bolts. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 7/7/2014 2:07:48 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Full disclosure.... Although the ESL10 is the best performing lock in the industry, there is one failure mode that we have tracked and identified, and that failure mode has symptoms that are very close to the problem you describe. My recommendation is that you install the new lock if you already have a kit. That would be a precautionary move, but I would do it if it were my safe. The problem you describe could have been just a simple keypad issue, but there is some chance this is the failure mode I am warning about here, and it can result in a lockout. The actual root cause is a cracked capacitor on one of the CPU inputs, which builds a charge that holds the input locked high so the transient keypad input signals are masked. Some of the time, an extended power-down will dissipate the charge and allow a one-shot opening before it gets loaded up again. We usually avoid a drill job with this technique, but safe techs that don't call AMSEC for assistance don't get this tidbit of wisdom, and drill the safes in a hasty rush to get the safe open. There are a lot of guys out there that would love to drill your box and charge a lot more, and how would you ever know they did you a disservice due to a lack of knowledge? Any good safe tech should call for a consult before putting a hole in the door. We have a war chest with lots of tricks that have evolved for every lock type and brand. This is one of the reasons AMSEC has such a highly regarded service record. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By slayerized6:
TheSafeGuy, I am considering a new lock replace my AMSEC, ESL-10 electronic lock. The ESL-10 electronic lock is attached to a 2.5 year old AMSEC safe.. Yesterday, I went to open my safe and the keypad was acting up (see thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_46/427253_Gun_safe_not_opening.html). Original post: Originally Posted By slayerized6:
I have an Amsec safe with an Amsec ESL-10 electronic keypad. Starting an hour ago, I can not open my safe. Normally, to open the safe, it's C-x-x-x-x-x-x-#; I would normally get a chirp each time I hit a button on the keypad. Now, the only time I get a chirp is when I hit the C button.sometimes it chirps when I hit the 2 or 6 but nothing else. I just changed the batteries too, so that's not the prob. I last opened it yesterday and didnt hear/see/feel anything of out the ordinary. Any ideas? Luckily, I was able to pick up a new ESL-10 lock and keypad set the next day (today) and replace the keypad. I was able to open the door no problem. I tested the new keypad a few times with the door open and its functioned without a hitch. I do not know what caused the keypad to malfunction and that caused me a lot of worry. Luckily, I didn't "need" to get into the safe for anything at that time and I'm glad it was only a few hours I couldn't get into the safe. However, I do not want this to happen again. Would it be advisable and better-off to switch to a mechanical combo lock? Or is there any other brands of electronic locks that have a better rep than AMSEC's ESL-10 (Lagard, Sargent & Greenleaf, etc)? -Thank You Full disclosure.... Although the ESL10 is the best performing lock in the industry, there is one failure mode that we have tracked and identified, and that failure mode has symptoms that are very close to the problem you describe. My recommendation is that you install the new lock if you already have a kit. That would be a precautionary move, but I would do it if it were my safe. The problem you describe could have been just a simple keypad issue, but there is some chance this is the failure mode I am warning about here, and it can result in a lockout. The actual root cause is a cracked capacitor on one of the CPU inputs, which builds a charge that holds the input locked high so the transient keypad input signals are masked. Some of the time, an extended power-down will dissipate the charge and allow a one-shot opening before it gets loaded up again. We usually avoid a drill job with this technique, but safe techs that don't call AMSEC for assistance don't get this tidbit of wisdom, and drill the safes in a hasty rush to get the safe open. There are a lot of guys out there that would love to drill your box and charge a lot more, and how would you ever know they did you a disservice due to a lack of knowledge? Any good safe tech should call for a consult before putting a hole in the door. We have a war chest with lots of tricks that have evolved for every lock type and brand. This is one of the reasons AMSEC has such a highly regarded service record. As per your recommendation, I swapped out the locking mechanism as well. It was a very east install, but I have one further question' How do you EASILY re-install the PDO organizer/fireboard back to the door? I can only get 60% of the bolts to line up and thread in. I've tried every possible technique. Straight down pattern, star pattern, etc. Once again, thank you for your assistance! |
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 7/7/2014 11:23:23 AM EDT
[#3]
JE3146, what size safe is that? Also, any chance of interior pics?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2014 12:40:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By slayerized6:
As per your recommendation, I swapped out the locking mechanism as well. It was a very east install, but I have one further question' How do you EASILY re-install the PDO organizer/fireboard back to the door? I can only get 60% of the bolts to line up and thread in. I've tried every possible technique. Straight down pattern, star pattern, etc. I'm not sure I understand the question. Do you mean to say that the holes are not lining up after you took the back cover off, and tried to re-attach? Not sure I know how to guide you much. If the screws came out, they must go back in, obviously. Can you use a long probe to line up each hole, push in the screw, but leave them loose until all the screws are in the boltguide frame? That's what I would try, if I understand the issue... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2014 3:42:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VentEnterSearch:
JE3146, what size safe is that? Also, any chance of interior pics? BF7240. I'll edit this post after work with an interior shot. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/8/2014 1:07:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#6]
If you didn't already know it, AMSEC is making steel targets now too. We are leveraging our large volume of heavy AR500 plate steel. Target Testing is one of our escapes. A little ammo dump to make sure the product is performing well... these were all virgin white when we started. These were set at 75 yards, and we shot 5.56x45, 7.62x39, 308, 30-06 and some 40, 45 & 9mm hand guns at 25 yards.
|
|
|
|
NV, USA
|
Posted: 7/8/2014 3:26:27 PM EDT
[#7]
broken links TSG... pictures wont display... i pmed you
|
|
|
VA, USA
|
Posted: 7/8/2014 3:45:14 PM EDT
[#8]
i know its a discontinued model. What can you tell me about: Amsec Gun Safe TF6030E5?
Door thickness and body thickness? I read on the amsec site that the body was 14ga. However vendor is claiming 12ga Thanks |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 7/13/2014 10:09:12 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Full disclosure.... Although the ESL10 is the best performing lock in the industry, there is one failure mode that we have tracked and identified, and that failure mode has symptoms that are very close to the problem you describe. My recommendation is that you install the new lock if you already have a kit. That would be a precautionary move, but I would do it if it were my safe. The problem you describe could have been just a simple keypad issue, but there is some chance this is the failure mode I am warning about here, and it can result in a lockout. The actual root cause is a cracked capacitor on one of the CPU inputs, which builds a charge that holds the input locked high so the transient keypad input signals are masked. Some of the time, an extended power-down will dissipate the charge and allow a one-shot opening before it gets loaded up again. We usually avoid a drill job with this technique, but safe techs that don't call AMSEC for assistance don't get this tidbit of wisdom, and drill the safes in a hasty rush to get the safe open. There are a lot of guys out there that would love to drill your box and charge a lot more, and how would you ever know they did you a disservice due to a lack of knowledge? Any good safe tech should call for a consult before putting a hole in the door. We have a war chest with lots of tricks that have evolved for every lock type and brand. This is one of the reasons AMSEC has such a highly regarded service record. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By slayerized6:
TheSafeGuy, I am considering a new lock replace my AMSEC, ESL-10 electronic lock. The ESL-10 electronic lock is attached to a 2.5 year old AMSEC safe.. Yesterday, I went to open my safe and the keypad was acting up (see thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_46/427253_Gun_safe_not_opening.html). Original post: Originally Posted By slayerized6:
I have an Amsec safe with an Amsec ESL-10 electronic keypad. Starting an hour ago, I can not open my safe. Normally, to open the safe, it's C-x-x-x-x-x-x-#; I would normally get a chirp each time I hit a button on the keypad. Now, the only time I get a chirp is when I hit the C button.sometimes it chirps when I hit the 2 or 6 but nothing else. I just changed the batteries too, so that's not the prob. I last opened it yesterday and didnt hear/see/feel anything of out the ordinary. Any ideas? Luckily, I was able to pick up a new ESL-10 lock and keypad set the next day (today) and replace the keypad. I was able to open the door no problem. I tested the new keypad a few times with the door open and its functioned without a hitch. I do not know what caused the keypad to malfunction and that caused me a lot of worry. Luckily, I didn't "need" to get into the safe for anything at that time and I'm glad it was only a few hours I couldn't get into the safe. However, I do not want this to happen again. Would it be advisable and better-off to switch to a mechanical combo lock? Or is there any other brands of electronic locks that have a better rep than AMSEC's ESL-10 (Lagard, Sargent & Greenleaf, etc)? -Thank You Full disclosure.... Although the ESL10 is the best performing lock in the industry, there is one failure mode that we have tracked and identified, and that failure mode has symptoms that are very close to the problem you describe. My recommendation is that you install the new lock if you already have a kit. That would be a precautionary move, but I would do it if it were my safe. The problem you describe could have been just a simple keypad issue, but there is some chance this is the failure mode I am warning about here, and it can result in a lockout. The actual root cause is a cracked capacitor on one of the CPU inputs, which builds a charge that holds the input locked high so the transient keypad input signals are masked. Some of the time, an extended power-down will dissipate the charge and allow a one-shot opening before it gets loaded up again. We usually avoid a drill job with this technique, but safe techs that don't call AMSEC for assistance don't get this tidbit of wisdom, and drill the safes in a hasty rush to get the safe open. There are a lot of guys out there that would love to drill your box and charge a lot more, and how would you ever know they did you a disservice due to a lack of knowledge? Any good safe tech should call for a consult before putting a hole in the door. We have a war chest with lots of tricks that have evolved for every lock type and brand. This is one of the reasons AMSEC has such a highly regarded service record. TSG, Has AMSEC been able to attribute the capacitor issue on the ESL-10 to a particular batch of locks or was this problem just recently discovered? I just purchased a new Amvault safe 3 months back with the ESL-10XL so obviously, this is a bit concerning. Are the newer locks (sold within the last several months shipping with the same potential defect or were the locks updated once the failure mode was understood? Thanks, Matt |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/13/2014 3:51:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MattK2:
TSG, Has AMSEC been able to attribute the capacitor issue on the ESL-10 to a particular batch of locks or was this problem just recently discovered? I just purchased a new Amvault safe 3 months back with the ESL-10XL so obviously, this is a bit concerning. Are the newer locks (sold within the last several months shipping with the same potential defect or were the locks updated once the failure mode was understood? Thanks, Matt This problem was resolved 4-5 years ago. Anything coming from the factory has locks that were made long after measures were put in place to prevent this issue. Your AMVault should be fine. The problem doesn't come up very often any more, but there are some locksmiths and wholesalers that occasionally have old inventory. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2014 1:23:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bzpowder:
i know its a discontinued model. What can you tell me about: Amsec Gun Safe TF6030E5? Door thickness and body thickness? I read on the amsec site that the body was 14ga. However vendor is claiming 12ga Thanks Vendor is wrong. The body is actually 2mm steel, which is 0.079 inch thick. 14 Gauge is 0.075 thick, so the catalogs read 14 Gauge (12 Gauge is 0.105 nominal thickness). |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/14/2014 4:31:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy: If you didn't already know it, AMSEC is making steel targets now too. The link to the downloadable brochure seems to be broken on your website. The bullseye target looks pretty nice. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2014 1:13:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mko1024:
The link to the downloadable brochure seems to be broken on your website. The bullseye target looks pretty nice. Which file are you having issues with? They load okay for me. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2014 3:02:19 PM EDT
[#14]
This link at the bottom of the page:
http://www.amsecusa.com/download/portable-target-brochure/ Redirects to this for me: http://amsec.s3.amazonaws.com/literature/PortableTargetBrochure.pdf and that page gives me an access denied. I tried Firefox, Chrome and Safari on OS X. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/15/2014 6:07:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mko1024:
This link at the bottom of the page: http://www.amsecusa.com/download/portable-target-brochure/ Redirects to this for me: http://amsec.s3.amazonaws.com/literature/PortableTargetBrochure.pdf and that page gives me an access denied. I tried Firefox, Chrome and Safari on OS X. This should be fixed now.... |
|
|
|
WI, USA
|
Posted: 7/18/2014 12:37:18 PM EDT
[#16]
TSG,
Thanks for all of the info. This thread made my decision for a rsc easy after mind-numbing research for over a year. I just ordered a BF6030 and am looking to build a 4" steel pedestal for it. Could you tell me what the hole size and spacing is on the bottom of the BF6030 so I can build accordingly. Thanks again. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 7/19/2014 11:28:22 AM EDT
[#17]
Decision time. Time to buy a safe for home. Just say if you had $50,000 in cash and jewelry and $10,000 in guns. Inventory will grow over time. Which route would you go? Budget of ~$4000. A lot of smash and grab lately around here.
Route 1: AMSEC CFX252016 + Cheap gun safe (under $1000) Route 2: AMSEC BF6636 with 4 gauge liner. To store everything. |
|
|
CA, USA
|
Posted: 7/19/2014 11:40:08 AM EDT
[#18]
West coast safe in CA has a used RF6528 on their website for $3,599
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 7/19/2014 2:03:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Really new to safe. How strong are the sides on those? RF6528. Would it stand up to TL15?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2014 5:34:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By typer0186:
Really new to safe. How strong are the sides on those? RF6528. Would it stand up to TL15? It's better than a TL15, because it's a TL30! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2014 5:46:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By guggep:
West coast safe in CA has a used RF6528 on their website for $3,599 WOW!! That's the kind of deal someone who really needs a great safe should not let slip by. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2014 7:17:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By heeler1:
WOW!! That's the kind of deal someone who really needs a great safe should not let slip by. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By heeler1:
Originally Posted By guggep:
West coast safe in CA has a used RF6528 on their website for $3,599 WOW!! That's the kind of deal someone who really needs a great safe should not let slip by. This, I would buy it right now if I didn't already own a BF series |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2014 8:00:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Conju:
This, I would buy it right now if I didn't already own a BF series Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Conju:
Originally Posted By heeler1:
Originally Posted By guggep:
West coast safe in CA has a used RF6528 on their website for $3,599 WOW!! That's the kind of deal someone who really needs a great safe should not let slip by. This, I would buy it right now if I didn't already own a BF series It is quite tempting. I've been eyeballing a new Amsec myself. Wonder what freight would be and how much I'd have to pay to get it in position. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2014 8:51:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
It's better than a TL15, because it's a TL30! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By typer0186:
Really new to safe. How strong are the sides on those? RF6528. Would it stand up to TL15? It's better than a TL15, because it's a TL30! Is the lifetime warranty transferable? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2014 8:54:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mbsk01:
It is quite tempting. I've been eyeballing a new Amsec myself. Wonder what freight would be and how much I'd have to pay to get it in position. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mbsk01:
Originally Posted By Conju:
Originally Posted By heeler1:
Originally Posted By guggep:
West coast safe in CA has a used RF6528 on their website for $3,599 WOW!! That's the kind of deal someone who really needs a great safe should not let slip by. This, I would buy it right now if I didn't already own a BF series It is quite tempting. I've been eyeballing a new Amsec myself. Wonder what freight would be and how much I'd have to pay to get it in position. Probably less than buying a new rf6528, at that price. Unless you're in soviet Russia or something. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 7/23/2014 12:58:58 AM EDT
[#26]
Just ordered a CFX352020 for the small stuff and handguns. Maybe a BF later for long guns.
What happen here? Looks like the concrete didn't slow them down at all. Clean cut. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-XSe2Z8dAs |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/23/2014 4:27:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TheSafeGuy]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By typer0186:
Just ordered a CFX352020 for the small stuff and handguns. Maybe a BF later for long guns. What happen here? Looks like the concrete didn't slow them down at all. Clean cut. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-XSe2Z8dAs We all have to keep in mind that a safe is only a delay mechanism. Any safe can be compromised give enough time and the right tools. These guys clearly had both. Study this video a bit more, you'll see that the one safe in the back of the room was opened by the door without any attack. It was left unlocked, or this was an inside job and the bad guy had the combo and key for that safe. The middle safe, you could see they had a key for the secondary lock, but the primary Combo Lock was locked, so they cut the side open. The short safe had the top cut open, so that door was locked. Things don't add up very well. In any case, these guys had several hours to work, and a torch in hand. These safes did their job, it's just a shame that the primary lines of electronic defense didn't summon LEO. Again, seems a little hinkey that they didn't set off alarms. You can see alarm contacts on all the safes. Again, pointing to an inside job and a disarmed alarm system. |
|
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 7/23/2014 8:47:06 PM EDT
[#28]
This was a "professional" crew, which had gained considerable "field experience" by the time they burned those safes. The same crew is suspected of attacking jewelers in several southeast and southwest Florida cities over a period of about six months. They defeated alarm systems and spent hours working in each store over weekends. They burned many safes, including a very nice Kaso TRTL 30X6, and stole $ Millions.
This does not happen in most residential or even most commercial settings. That type of safe attack requires hard work, time, knowledge and risk tolerance. Torch attack in a residence is extremely rare. TL safes don't usually succumb to the brute force or tool attacks typical of residential burglaries. More commonly (and still, not very frequently for larger TL safes), they are removed from the residence and hauled off to a warehouse / garage / secluded area where they can be mutilated in privacy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/23/2014 9:17:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quite an interesting video.
These guys certainly knew their business as far as opening that tool rated safe. 
I sincerely hope they catch this crew and shut them down for a long stretch of time. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/10/2014 10:49:39 AM EDT
[#30]
Are the TL15/TL30 (CE,CF,RF,RFX) safes bolted down? I know they are heavy when empty, but is it still an option to bolt?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/10/2014 5:28:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Anyone else have this issue with a BF series safe or any safe with a door organizer?
It seems like the door organizer was adhered to the door with contact adhesive, and the weight of handguns in the velcro holsters pulls the organizer backing away from the door (This is strictly isolated to the center area of the organizer). Combine that with the 'slack' in the fabric, and I almost fear a pistol is going to fall out of one of the door holsters when opening the door. I've taken the handguns out for a couple weeks and tried to let the adhesive cure a bit, it it keeps pealing off every time I put a handgun back. As i said before it's still fastened around the edges fine, just not the center part. Any ideas? Or is this common?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/10/2014 9:25:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JE3146:
Anyone else have this issue with a BF series safe or any safe with a door organizer? It seems like the door organizer was adhered to the door with contact adhesive, and the weight of handguns in the velcro holsters pulls the organizer backing away from the door (This is strictly isolated to the center area of the organizer). Combine that with the 'slack' in the fabric, and I almost fear a pistol is going to fall out of one of the door holsters when opening the door. I've taken the handguns out for a couple weeks and tried to let the adhesive cure a bit, it it keeps pealing off every time I put a handgun back. As i said before it's still fastened around the edges fine, just not the center part. Any ideas? Or is this common? Let me look into this. I have not heard anyone complain about this before, and we always were concerned that this might happen. |
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 8/12/2014 4:27:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: drifter_r6]
[#33]
I just took delivery of a replacement BF7240 last week and I have noticed this same problem but the adhesive is separating all around.
I received my first BF (build date 2/2014), had no problems with the PDO. This latest BF (build date 6/2014) the PDO fabric is separating. Not sure if maybe a bad adhesive batch. Should I call this in for warranty? Please keep us informed. Thanks |
|
|
WI, USA
|
Posted: 8/12/2014 4:43:04 AM EDT
[#34]
so can someone give me the cliff notes here, all this information is way too much for my simple mind to handle. Im trying to decide between a sturdy safe and a amsec. To get a compareable size amsec is almost $1000 more (7240 vs 4227-6). Ok so money is always an issue and i want to save money if i can, but if i got a non-fire lined safe what is the best way to protect it? I was considering using drywall on the outside of the safe till i read this thread a little. From what i gather it has to be on the inside of the safe so it can release vapor that will block out the heat? so on the outside it would be worthless? and either way it falls apart and ends up being worthless? especially since in a DIY it wouldn't have a steel liner holding it in place. i dunno very confusing everytime i think i have it figuered out i read something that discourages me....whats my best options?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/13/2014 3:10:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Plattekill]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By epson800:
so can someone give me the cliff notes here, all this information is way too much for my simple mind to handle. Im trying to decide between a sturdy safe and a amsec. To get a compareable size amsec is almost $1000 more (7240 vs 4227-6). Ok so money is always an issue and i want to save money if i can, but if i got a non-fire lined safe what is the best way to protect it? I was considering using drywall on the outside of the safe till i read this thread a little. From what i gather it has to be on the inside of the safe so it can release vapor that will block out the heat? so on the outside it would be worthless? and either way it falls apart and ends up being worthless? especially since in a DIY it wouldn't have a steel liner holding it in place. i dunno very confusing everytime i think i have it figuered out i read something that discourages me....whats my best options? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By epson800:
so can someone give me the cliff notes here, all this information is way too much for my simple mind to handle. Im trying to decide between a sturdy safe and a amsec. To get a compareable size amsec is almost $1000 more (7240 vs 4227-6). Ok so money is always an issue and i want to save money if i can, but if i got a non-fire lined safe what is the best way to protect it? I was considering using drywall on the outside of the safe till i read this thread a little. From what i gather it has to be on the inside of the safe so it can release vapor that will block out the heat? so on the outside it would be worthless? and either way it falls apart and ends up being worthless? especially since in a DIY it wouldn't have a steel liner holding it in place. i dunno very confusing everytime i think i have it figuered out i read something that discourages me....whats my best options? Cliff Notes: TSG on page 2 of this thread: I said it on another thread, and I'll repeat it here. This may not suit your thinking, but if you are storing any more than immediate needs ammo volume in your safe, get it out of there. Keep only what you think you need to fight off the first wave of zombies. Your go bag, a few loaded mag's and a box of double-ott.
Think about all we are discussing here, and then consider the destructive nature of the mountain of ammo that most people seem compelled to keep in the safe along side the weapons. That is Foolish with a capital S for STUPID. If you have a fire, what is that pile of brass encased gunpowder going to do inside that box? Don't find out... just store it somewhere else. Here is a simple idea that we can all afford... Build or modify a cabinet in your garage, away from ignition points like the water heater. Line the cabinet with 2-3 layers of drywall on all sides. Do the same on the back face of the door. Don't worry about seals, just make it as tight as you can. If you're concerned about theft, put some angle-iron around the door edges and attach with carriage bolts so the round heads are on the outside. Put one or two good padlocks to secure the door, and attach a couple of short chains to the hinge-side to keep the door from being removed. Now stack your precious ammo mountain in there and know that the contents of your safe just gained a big edge in fire survival. And on Page 8: We make no claims as to the effectiveness of the BF Gunsafe fill regarding penetration or burglary value. It's not real tough like concrete. I'm just being honest. It is primarily designed to act as a durable contiguous fire barrier with high retention hygroscopic water volume.
The key improvement over gypsum board is that there are no joints or gaps to pass hot gasses, nor a raw edge to propagate calcination failure. The concrete base matrix will not crumble and collapse like gyp boards do. Gypsum board is basically a powder (Calcium-Sulfate) laminated by paper and bonded by water molecules. In a fire, the paper is gone real early, then the gyp decays into the base raw powder form, which has no inherent structural integrity. This results in insulation breeches that basically end the fire protection value. If the material can retain it's structure, it will take longer to conduct enough heat to bring you to failure temperatures. The matter of 2 layers of steel does improve burglary resistance, because you have to cut thru two layers. It forces you to make a larger hole in the outer skin so you have ample working space to breech the inner liner steel. The cutaway samples have been "cooked" to act more hard so that people poking at it don't damage the display samples. We originally sent cutaway samples with the real material, and everywhere they went, they were destroyed by people trying to see how tough the material was with knives and other poking tools. After a short time, the expensive display samples looked like shit and were discarded. We make a more durable mix for the display samples now, and seal the open face with a hardener so they will last longer. Sorry if that seems deceiving, but it's not intended to demonstrate how strong the material is, it's provided to show the superior composite construction. If it were me, I would buy the AMSEC. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/13/2014 3:28:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drifter_r6:
I just took delivery of a replacement BF7240 last week and I have noticed this same problem but the adhesive is separating all around. I received my first BF (build date 2/2014), had no problems with the PDO. This latest BF (build date 6/2014) the PDO fabric is separating. Not sure if maybe a bad adhesive batch. Should I call this in for warranty? Please keep us informed. Thanks As I told JE3146 in a PM, we are looking into this, but I would like to take action to mitigate your issues. Please send me a PM with your mailing info and note the interior color, and we'll send out some nice sheet metal screws with dressing caps to place around the PDO wherever you feel it's needed to button that panel down. If that doesn't work to your satisfaction, we'll replace the PDO at least. These are the first reports of any issues after 3-4 years of attaching these Door Organizers in this fashion. Maybe we have a bad batch of spray adhesive, we are checking. The stuff we use comes in drums and is shot on with a special paint gun, so it's possible there is some material issue we are just beginning to discover. It sounds like the goo is not setting. Our production team are already on the issue. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/13/2014 5:03:52 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
As I told JE3146 in a PM, we are looking into this, but I would like to take action to mitigate your issues. Please send me a PM with your mailing info and note the interior color, and we'll send out some nice sheet metal screws with dressing caps to place around the PDO wherever you feel it's needed to button that panel down. If that doesn't work to your satisfaction, we'll replace the PDO at least. These are the first reports of any issues after 3-4 years of attaching these Door Organizers in this fashion. Maybe we have a bad batch of spray adhesive, we are checking. The stuff we use comes in drums and is shot on with a special paint gun, so it's possible there is some material issue we are just beginning to discover. It sounds like the goo is not setting. Our production team are already on the issue. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
Originally Posted By drifter_r6:
I just took delivery of a replacement BF7240 last week and I have noticed this same problem but the adhesive is separating all around. I received my first BF (build date 2/2014), had no problems with the PDO. This latest BF (build date 6/2014) the PDO fabric is separating. Not sure if maybe a bad adhesive batch. Should I call this in for warranty? Please keep us informed. Thanks As I told JE3146 in a PM, we are looking into this, but I would like to take action to mitigate your issues. Please send me a PM with your mailing info and note the interior color, and we'll send out some nice sheet metal screws with dressing caps to place around the PDO wherever you feel it's needed to button that panel down. If that doesn't work to your satisfaction, we'll replace the PDO at least. These are the first reports of any issues after 3-4 years of attaching these Door Organizers in this fashion. Maybe we have a bad batch of spray adhesive, we are checking. The stuff we use comes in drums and is shot on with a special paint gun, so it's possible there is some material issue we are just beginning to discover. It sounds like the goo is not setting. Our production team are already on the issue. Now, THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! Thanks TSG for being so generous with the knowledge here as well as for the great customer service! |
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 8/14/2014 3:41:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: drifter_r6]
[#38]
Besides making a good product, the great customer service (not just from TSG), is why I have purchased two Amsec safes in the last 8 months.
PM sent. Thanks for your help! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheSafeGuy:
As I told JE3146 in a PM, we are looking into this, but I would like to take action to mitigate your issues. Please send me a PM with your mailing info and note the interior color, and we'll send out some nice sheet metal screws with dressing caps to place around the PDO wherever you feel it's needed to button that panel down. If that doesn't work to your satisfaction, we'll replace the PDO at least. These are the first reports of any issues after 3-4 years of attaching these Door Organizers in this fashion. Maybe we have a bad batch of spray adhesive, we are checking. The stuff we use comes in drums and is shot on with a special paint gun, so it's possible there is some material issue we are just beginning to discover. It sounds like the goo is not setting. Our production team are already on the issue. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 8/15/2014 1:25:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: turnip75]
[#39]
http://amsec.s3.amazonaws.com/literature/2013-Corporate-Brochure.pdf . I like the giant shot blast machine.
|
|
|
ME, USA
|
Posted: 8/15/2014 11:52:33 PM EDT
[#40]
What should I do for a safe?
Recently bought a house and figuring out what to do for a safe. Maybe 5k in guns right now, likely to increase 5k-10k in other valuables. House is a split level in a rural location. IE the fire dept generally saves the foundation. I can either put it in the lower level (slab, easy to bolt to floor walls, higher humidity, will be a swimming pool in a fire) Up stairs (harder to situate, have to get it up the stairs then etc, floor load considerations) In the adjoining but not connected garage (can bolt to floor, not currently climate or humidity controlled) I am somewhat torn between going with a cheap but serviceable safe with a better firesafe inside for documents etc, and counting on insuranceto cover any losses, or a much better safe that will serve me longer when I upgrade my collection. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/16/2014 10:20:37 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
What should I do for a safe? Recently bought a house and figuring out what to do for a safe. Maybe 5k in guns right now, likely to increase 5k-10k in other valuables. House is a split level in a rural location. IE the fire dept generally saves the foundation. I can either put it in the lower level (slab, easy to bolt to floor walls, higher humidity, will be a swimming pool in a fire) Up stairs (harder to situate, have to get it up the stairs then etc, floor load considerations) In the adjoining but not connected garage (can bolt to floor, not currently climate or humidity controlled) I am somewhat torn between going with a cheap but serviceable safe with a better firesafe inside for documents etc, and counting on insuranceto cover any losses, or a much better safe that will serve me longer when I upgrade my collection. This is a tough call. You need to have the rifle safe in a place where it doesn't end up in a charcoal jacuzzi. None of them are waterproof, particularly after a fire. It sounds like you need a good small fire safe in the house for valuables mounted on a metal platform to keep it up out of the water, and a good fire rated gunsafe in the garage. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/16/2014 1:06:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: gasdoc09]
[#42]
TheSafeGuy,
Do you have an opinion on this safe? (Anyone else feel free to comment too.) This isn't far from me and $1500 for a TL15 that size seems like a reasonable deal. No model # is listed. The walls look pretty thin. From Diebold's web site it appears that their CashGard safes do NOT have fire protection. No fire protection would be a dealkiller for me. http://raleigh.craigslist.org/for/4619141715.html Thanks. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/16/2014 2:21:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gasdoc09:
TheSafeGuy, Do you have an opinion on this safe? (Anyone else feel free to comment too.) This isn't far from me and $1500 for a TL15 that size seems like a reasonable deal. No model # is listed. The walls look pretty thin. From Diebold's web site it appears that their CashGard safes do NOT have fire protection. No fire protection would be a dealkiller for me. http://raleigh.craigslist.org/for/4619141715.html Thanks. That's a great safe. It may not look like it but it's a 1" plate body safe. I ran my EngAids programs on it, and the weight verify s that construction. Diebold makes a great commercial safe, that thing will outlive you and your kids. We make private label bank safes just like that for Diebold, have been for 20 years. That is one of the safes they made in their old Canton, Ohio factory. That price is stupid low, don't pass it up. That safe probably would retail for $5000 or more. |
|
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: 8/16/2014 2:23:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Just registered for the site and it's my first post. Have visited the site for a couple of years now.
Recently moved into a new home. Ranch with full basement. One car attached garage and a two car detached garage. Would love to have my first safe in the finished basement. I know I want an Amsec safe. Just not sure where to get one. Is it best to call Amsec directly, buy online or find a local dealer? Want to use the safe to store my firearms along with family valuables and photos. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/16/2014 6:50:33 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PittsburghPatriot:
Just registered for the site and it's my first post. Have visited the site for a couple of years now. Recently moved into a new home. Ranch with full basement. One car attached garage and a two car detached garage. Would love to have my first safe in the finished basement. I know I want an Amsec safe. Just not sure where to get one. Is it best to call Amsec directly, buy online or find a local dealer? Want to use the safe to store my firearms along with family valuables and photos. Welcome to the site, the Amsec line to the best of my knowledge is sold through their authorized dealer network, drop down menu here You could PM TSG with your zipcode, I am sure he would be happy to find you a local dealer. |
|
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: 8/16/2014 9:50:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BGENE:
Welcome to the site, the Amsec line to the best of my knowledge is sold through their authorized dealer network, drop down menu here You could PM TSG with your zipcode, I am sure he would be happy to find you a local dealer. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BGENE:
Originally Posted By PittsburghPatriot:
Just registered for the site and it's my first post. Have visited the site for a couple of years now. Recently moved into a new home. Ranch with full basement. One car attached garage and a two car detached garage. Would love to have my first safe in the finished basement. I know I want an Amsec safe. Just not sure where to get one. Is it best to call Amsec directly, buy online or find a local dealer? Want to use the safe to store my firearms along with family valuables and photos. Welcome to the site, the Amsec line to the best of my knowledge is sold through their authorized dealer network, drop down menu here You could PM TSG with your zipcode, I am sure he would be happy to find you a local dealer. Thanks. I appreciate it. I just sent him a PM. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2014 11:14:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RFmissile]
[#47]
If anyone is curious as to what the redundant lock looks like here is mine on my BF7240
LAGARD redundant lock 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2014 11:23:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: a1abdj]
[#48]
I would have installed it differently to keep the safe symmetrical. Gun safes are a bit tough, because there's not really a good place to put them where they still look right.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2014 11:51:06 PM EDT
[#49]
It has to do with the way the lock works as to why it is offset like that.
Yours looks good stacked like that. Do you still have to turn the dial after you input on the e-lock to open? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/3/2014 12:37:00 AM EDT
[#50]
Do you still have to turn the dial after you input on the e-lock to open? Yes. The one in my photo is an original LaGard redundant mechanical/electronic, and I have installed several of them. I typically use them on TL rated safes where the owner wants fast access, but wouldn't want to pay to drill the safe in the event of an electronic lock failure. There are redundant electronic/electronic locks available, but they are very expensive. There are a few mechanical/electronic redundants that use a single keypad/dial to eliminate the need for the two fixtures. One of them has some interesting options, like bluetooth technology. |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
