So.. right, from a "Navy Seal Training" award shooting day, an opportunity to actually ask a former real Navy Seal, on the topic of reloading during a building engagement.  Answer: if you have to reload, you're dead.  Point being, even they don't empty mags, and the "mag reload speed" overstated topic, remains overstated.   Or at least, he didn't on his missions when he was deployed.  That, and if you're standing there reloading while being shot - well - you're dead regardless of system.  And if you take cover, an extra 1/5th second is irrelevant. (this was one of those gig's from one of those Wounded Warrior fundraiser things where former Navy Seals are there as part of the Schtich; and you can buy a Day Shooting With the Seals in auction; which someone did.

As to Ambidexterity Transitioning; yea outside of Larry Vickers LARP training classes - I'm real curious if anyone actually does that really.  They must train seriously hard at this if they do, because it's not natural and will consume attention and slow your engagement capability doing that.  Rather than you mind tracking what's that shadow off to my left doing, it's tracking "ok fuck, left finger, and I have to move the stock up this way a bit to fit right and concentrate, this is an unnatural manner of running my gun, so i need to hold this hand here..."  Frankly, if I'm being assaulted, I hope the guys doing so, are doing that.  And if I'm wearing body armor, I hope they are using 11" BBL ballistics.  Very VERY few civie's are going to do that level of training.

The other items carry a little more credibility though and are the more likely:  and I suspect the LOP issue is probably the top one; when combined with armor gear etc.  
That and all the jewelry maybe so as well, though you can stuff more onto an AUG than you might think; with 3 different pic rails to mount stuff on.  

as to 200yards - yea, it still a .223 hitting, but it's hitting like a P90, not a 5.56; where as a bullpup is still hitting like a 5.56 at 200 yards.  

If your Spec Forces, maybe the Mk18 is the better call.  If you a civy or line-troop; I'm not so sure.  Thing is, for line-troops, General Issue, the rifle being ambi shooter capable gets important again; since some of your troops are lefties and PITA to have special logistics just for them.

Before the Russian invasion I was talking to a Ukrainian guntuber and very experienced soldier (Iraq, Afghanistan and war in Donbass vet) for a couple of months.

Originally I'd asked him about the Malyuk bullpup and how it compared to the AK.

He hadn't been issued one but had a chance to try out out at an organized demonstration.

Long story short, he didn't like it and found it awkward.

Also, bullpups in general seemed to have a bit of a bad reputation among Ukrainian infantry as the men using them were said to suffer noticeably higher casualties because they had to expose more of themselves when shooting from trenches and foxholes, which I imagine is a regular thing in that war.

Still, you do see a lot of elite Ukrainian soldiers using the Malyuk, and I've even seen Russian troops using captured ones, so it can't be all bad?

Thanks for that.  THAT's is a new one and something to ponder.     Interesting...  In a defensive roll in a foxhole or a trench, is a bullpup a liability...?   interesting.

Something interesting in the world of bullpup issue rifles is that only the nations who've adopted the AUG in some form stuck with one once "we need new guns" came up.  Austria and Australia both went with an updated AUG.

UK and France are looking for something else.

Israel isn't to the "we need new guns" point yet.

Or did I miss someone?

Croatia, China, Iran, Poland?

Probably the lack of rail space on bullpups is it's big weakness.
Modern rifels have all sorts of stuff hanging off them.

All I know, is despite the factory trigger and other shortcomings, I can shoot my X95 better in the context of offhand dynamic shooting, than I can a conventional rifle.

That certainly counts for something.

The AR is definitively more readily kitted out than an AUG. I have several AUGs and am working out a way to add IR laser/illumination for night vision 2-gun matches. A properly set up AR will also come to each event, because for me it’s the gold standard.

If reload you’re dead, but if you have to reload it had better be fast so as not to die. :)

5.56 from a 12.5 still has plenty of terminal performance at 200 yds, not hitting like a P90.

Croatia and Iran have not reached "time to replace the guns" yet.  So we don't know if they stick with Bullpups.

The QBZ-191 is a conventionally laid out rifle replacing the bullpup QBZ-95.

The Grot B wasn't adopted.

So, no, I must not have missed anyone.

Ukrainian forces are at least considering switching over to the Malyuk, although I doubt they will ever replace more than a fraction of their current rifles.

Belarus has an AK based bullpup of their own that they are currently evaluating, the SMAR-100BPM.

Singapore uses the SAR-21 bullpup, which it is replacing with the BR18 bullpup.

The way the Croatian SF guys setup their VHS-2s is pretty efficient. Light on the handguard, IR laser on top rail in front of EOTech with a remote running down to the handguard. Looks like a perfect setup to me.

That said, I think this is sort of an issue with the way legacy firearms are designed as not truly integrated systems. Modular, yes. Integrated, no.

If you break the mold and do something like integrate a light and laser into an easily replaceable handguard with built-in light and laser, where the light head, and possibly even laser head, could be swapped out as upgrades and mission requirements evolve. Multi-function switchology could be integrated into the handguard to allow activiation of either unit from either side.

A downward ejecting action like on the RDB but with a toilet bowl like the F2000 for malfunction clearance and chamber checks, or forward ejection like on the BR-18 (it's simpler and lighter than the MDRX), would also solve it.

So, ultimately, I feel like we haven't really seen a bullpup designed to its full potential yet.

One thing I particularly like about bullpups is you can run a suppressor without the overall package getting too crazy long. An M4 with a 6 inch can is as long as an M16 and with worse balance. As suppressors become more and more the standard on battlefield rifles, this will only become all the more relevant.

I do shoot weak side as it’s required on some stages. The aug with a defector or the Mdrx forward makes it not matter. I make my hits no problem.

The BR18 looks interesting, being light weight (6.3 lbs for the assault rifle version).

It also has a forward ejection system:




Fairly easy chamber access:



And what appears to be a reasonable height-over-bore and length of pull:



https://www.gunsweek.com/en/rifles/articles/st-kinetics-br18-ultimate-bull-pup-assault-rifle

You are missing many of the AUG users.

Ireland. Malaysia. Uruguay. There are quite a few more.

Lots of Tavor/X95 users also, though none as an universally issued rifle.

There's also the  limited issue ADS bullpup used by elite Russian troops.

Have Ireland, Malaysia or Uruguay replaced their AUGs?  Did they replace them with AUGs?  Did they replace them with something else?

If yes, I missed them.  If no, then I didn't.

I have no idea.

There have been a bunch of Malaysian AUG parts kits on the market lately, so maybe?

From Wikipedia: Malaysia I think switched to the M4.  Ireland is still issuing AUG's, and did a 2014 upgrade to flat-tops with 1-4 scopes for some of them.  As noted, there are some East European bullpups that don't get much attention, and Singapore military runs a pretty good bullpup design they don't export that no one talks about, the SAR21.  One nice thing about it, that more bullpup's should probably do, is they run a longer bolt rotation cut, for a slower and smoother bolt unlike, which supposedly makes it more pleasant to shoot.  Which is what SCAR does as well.  But in the case of SCAR, it's a bulky and long rifle with a balance I don't like and just overall a gun that in the end, I personally don't care for the SCAR;  and apparently neither does anyone else, because of the people I know who have a SCAR, none of them actually run their SCAR.

Tried a holosun LE321? White light, vis laser, IR laser, and IR illum all in one unit. ~$1000, 9.5 ounces.

Otherwise, a Pups mount for a light, and IR mounted to either the top rail, or offset rail with a tape switch are your only options. Haven’t seen an IR laser/illum that will fit a 30mm light mount… Might be another option, if the pups will hold zero.

No Chinesium for me. I have a RAID Xe inbound. Have a DIR-V. Had a MAWL c1+, but sold it when my DIRV arrived.

I will likely abandon the AUG night fighting project and just stick with ARs for night stuff.

Ha true. The people I know who owned a SCAR talked about owning it more than they actually shot it.

LOOK AT ME MY GUN IS EXPENSIVE!

The RDB beats the crap out of the AUG for lights and lasers.

AR is still the best.

Sure, but the AUG beats the crap out of the RDB everywhere else except for the trigger: reliability, accuracy, military pedigree, fit and finish, etc.

I just need my gun to be reliable, accurate, accept a light, and an optic.  I don't run around LARPing or care to throw lasers and night vision stuff all over it.

I'd trust my life on an AUG, I wouldn't trust it on an RDB lol

AUGs have a breakdown feature as well.

I'd like to get an RDB and really give it a workout to test that.  And not a first year production Beta model.  

I have AR15s - they break.  I have an AUG, it breaks.  Right now from this weekend, my AUG drop-safety apparently just fell out, and rattled around in the stock and caused the gun to jam, before I discovered that rattle apparently wasn't an unimportant cleaning kit item after-all.  I've broken my AUG cam pin too in the past - factory defect apparently - they replaced it.

 I've broken plenty of parts on the AR.  Keep a spare ejector spring and extractor in your bag - actually just tape them inside your pistol grip, I'll say that.

Will an RDB be any worse really?  I'm curious to find out.  Thing is, I'm not paying $1200 for one; that's just nuts.  $750 for that $400 cost gun, and I'll take it.    

Yeah they've had some stock issues as of late.  Even with that it's still a way more reliable gun than the RDB

Hop's buddy broke his buttpad, but the gun was still working.  Can you duct tape an AUG that has disassembled itself & it still run?

I dunno.

I have both and have had them for quite a while.

I trust the RDB as much as the AUG and it suppresses far better, as in it's not even close.

Accuracy is about the same.

No comment on fit and finish, I 100% don't care.

I live in a place and situation where I do care about lights and lasers and night vision, it's more important than the day optics for me.

This makes the AUG pretty useless, to me at least. My RDB lives with a can and an IR laser on it 100% of the time and... it just works.

Not interested in an RDB or anything else from Keltec. I’ll grab a Tavor eventually just because it’s a necessary addition to the collection. The AR wins at lights and lasers for sure.

In reading this thread it dawned on me I may be in the clear since I have a second Tavor I installed a 9mm kit into, leaving me with a second 556 barrel & fire control package, if I ever get out of MDA Houston main campus!

A follow up video that I've not watched.

Interesting after action report.  But the take away is that it seems they haven't done a lot/any of the easy to access research on the MDRx.  Namely they aren't reading any reports/posts here or on the Desert Tech Subreddit.

They didn't know about the hand-guard Zero problem and are considering the 308 conversion kit that has pretty bad mileage on the MDRx.  They probably don't know about any of the lessons learned withe the gun.

They did find the BLK LBL Handguard though.

If you told me a year ago Hop of all people would consider the Keltec RDB to be the best bullpup design made, I wouldn’t have believed it. After owning it, I can see how one could draw that conclusion.

Why not just get a handguard for the AUG?

MAC bags on the AUG as a can host.

I agree that any "non AR or Glock" design is going to have less support, but I also subscribe to the "a second identical gun is the best source of spare parts" philosophy.  Therefore, when I get asked (which is often) what gun to buy I ask the usual questions:  what is your gun experience level; what are you intending to use the gun for; what is your budget; etc.  The budget part is important because if they're more than a 1000rd a year shooter I always advise to buy two of the same thing.

No Indy 500 driver takes a high mileage car on the track, and it is a heck of a lot easier to roll a complete car out than to swap a head or engine.

I stopped taking him seriously about a year ago.   Even a blind squirrel finds an occasional nut (that is to say he does have some good insight) but overall he's strictly in the "low level / not serious entertainment" realm.

My days of not taking MAC seriously anymore have certainly come to a middle.

Did you get alcohol poisoning from the "master grip" and "weapon system" MAC drinking game?

Does anyone take him seriously?

There is really no better centerfire rifle caliber autoloading suppressor host than an AR. That said, a low back pressure can on an AUG is not bad.