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Originally Posted By kenzo: I don't get it. Isn't the reason for owning a bullpup is to have the most compact weapon with rifle caliber performance? The compact size makes it suitable for vehicle operations, urban warfare, truck gun, home defense gun, etc. 16" bullpups are very compact for their bbl length and adding a suppressor will still keep it a more compact rifle than most other rifle platforms without a suppressor. Yet, a lot of members here are very excited about going to the bigger 20 inch Hellion bbl. Now you're entering 32-34 inches OAL territory which in my opinion negates the major benefit of the bullpup platform and puts you back in to 16" AR territory. I was very happy to have my 16" X95 but ecstatic when my shorter, 13 inch, X95 factory SBR was approved. View Quote Still a smaller package for a longer barrel, but I agree with you. I get it for others, but for me the goal is the smallest package while being long enough for 556. To me that’s a 14.5 pinned to 16. That way smallest possible, still good ballistics, and no nfa bull. I hate the idea of informing to go to matches out of state. |
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Originally Posted By kenzo: I don't get it. Isn't the reason for owning a bullpup is to have the most compact weapon with rifle caliber performance? The compact size makes it suitable for vehicle operations, urban warfare, truck gun, home defense gun, etc. 16" bullpups are very compact for their bbl length and adding a suppressor will still keep it a more compact rifle than most other rifle platforms without a suppressor. Yet, a lot of members here are very excited about going to the bigger 20 inch Hellion bbl. Now you're entering 32-34 inches OAL territory which in my opinion negates the major benefit of the bullpup platform and puts you back in to 16" AR territory. I was very happy to have my 16" X95 but ecstatic when my shorter, 13 inch, X95 factory SBR was approved. View Quote Because I can have a Tavor 7 20" or Hellion 20" and have a handy DMR in the length of a 16" AR. |
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I have the 16" version and I want the 20" version simply because I want it! That's good enough for me.
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I want the performance. Also the balance of the gun is better if you have a bunch of crap on the gun.
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"It is the tradition that a Kentuckian never runs. He does not have to."
Beard vs. United States |
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20” review from TFB, they state 2-2.5 MOA, but a more in depth review from them on accuracy is coming next, along with rifle grenade testing
Review |
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Originally Posted By MAKAK47: 20” review from TFB, they state 2-2.5 MOA, but a more in depth review from them on accuracy is coming next, along with rifle grenade testing Review View Quote Yeah I think they only used ball ammo so that’s solid result. |
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With my 75gr Hornady HPBT reloads I can hit a steel silhouette at 450 yards with every single shot using a PA 3x microprism...and I suck.
These rifles have a lot of accuracy potential. |
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"The two things men never get to old to play with, electric trains and boobies." - substandard
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain |
Originally Posted By MAKAK47: 20” review from TFB, they state 2-2.5 MOA, but a more in depth review from them on accuracy is coming next, along with rifle grenade testing Review View Quote IIRC the 18" AUG ended up the most accurate between the 16, 18, and 20 variants due to barrel harmonics (or maybe just low sample size) |
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Originally Posted By thehun06: Yeah I think they only used ball ammo so that’s solid result. View Quote Ya for a service rifle it’s good, but I’m wondering if it’s a step down from what the 16” can do, granted there’s more velocity in the 20” and it’s a horse a piece to me if it’s within .5 MOA difference on ball ammo |
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Originally Posted By MAKAK47: Ya for a service rifle it’s good, but I’m wondering if it’s a step down from what the 16” can do, granted there’s more velocity in the 20” and it’s a horse a piece to me if it’s within .5 MOA difference on ball ammo View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By MAKAK47: Originally Posted By thehun06: Yeah I think they only used ball ammo so that’s solid result. Ya for a service rifle it’s good, but I’m wondering if it’s a step down from what the 16” can do, granted there’s more velocity in the 20” and it’s a horse a piece to me if it’s within .5 MOA difference on ball ammo Thing is … once you hunt match accuracy … you really got to just find what works in that gun … for that barrel … 16” shots really well … but that 20” is just an authentic piece. |
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I have the 20" BBL model on order and should be here later this week. My question is what's with the fins on the end of the barrel between the bayonet lug to the flash suppressor? Is it for launching rifle grenades? Reminds me of the mas 49/56.
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Originally Posted By brunse09: I have the 20" BBL model on order and should be here later this week. My question is what's with the fins on the end of the barrel between the bayonet lug to the flash suppressor? Is it for launching rifle grenades? Reminds me of the mas 49/56. View Quote Where did you order from? |
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I got my 20" from Ky Gunco in Bardstown.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Originally Posted By MAKAK47: Where did you order from? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By MAKAK47: Originally Posted By brunse09: I have the 20" BBL model on order and should be here later this week. My question is what's with the fins on the end of the barrel between the bayonet lug to the flash suppressor? Is it for launching rifle grenades? Reminds me of the mas 49/56. Where did you order from? My local dealer. |
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Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Sorry for the delay, but the Hellion Enhanced Safety System is now in stock and shipping! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/368252/Hellion_safety_3_edit-2884423.jpg Here is the installation video which covers all the procedure, tips, and tricks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl0e3Bc2otE Sven Manticore Arms P.S. We had A LOT of people sign up for in stock notification, and have not put all of the inventory on the webstore, so if it says "out of stock" overnight, don't worry, more will be listed by tomorrow (wednesday 8/16) morning. View Quote You also deserve public credit for helping with this: History Primer 182: US Colt 1909 Through 1911 Documentary |
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Death to quislings.
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I installed my safety switch today. It was a PITA as advertised but not horribly so. I do like the new switch over the original by a lot.
@Manticore_Arms: just as an FYI, the special tool in mine was broken when I opened the package. If it is that delicate you might want to pack it better for shipment. |
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I just checked mine - also broken.
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I'd buy that for a dollar!
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@ChengSMGT @spork
Thanks for the feedback on the included punches guys...we were afraid that might happen. Let me know if you have any issues getting the pin out. We are looking at going a different route for all orders going forward, we spent a lot on getting those made and it is very frustrating they won't even hold up in shipping. Sven Manticore Arms |
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Advanced Fighting Gear for the AR, AK, AUG, Tavor, and Scorpion EVO! www.manticorearms.com
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Originally Posted By backbencher: You also deserve public credit for helping with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG73dIAEV_4 View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms: Sorry for the delay, but the Hellion Enhanced Safety System is now in stock and shipping! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/368252/Hellion_safety_3_edit-2884423.jpg Here is the installation video which covers all the procedure, tips, and tricks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl0e3Bc2otE Sven Manticore Arms P.S. We had A LOT of people sign up for in stock notification, and have not put all of the inventory on the webstore, so if it says "out of stock" overnight, don't worry, more will be listed by tomorrow (wednesday 8/16) morning. You also deserve public credit for helping with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG73dIAEV_4 @backbencher, Thanks, Othais is a good friend of mine (we actually met at IV8888 shoot some years ago- I was all alone at my booth at that event due to scheduling conflicts with my employees, and CandRsenal needed a place to shoot, so we helped each other out that weekend and our friendship was born. ). I was able to leverage some spare cash I had at the time to make the early Colts happen ( I have an interest in firearms development, so being able to see all the developmental process of JMB and Colt right in my own hands was a huge bonus). The 1907 Colt is probably the most featured/seen 1907 in the world- it is the same one that has been on both Forgotten Weapons and CandRsenal...how is that for provenance, lol! Sven Manticore Arms |
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Advanced Fighting Gear for the AR, AK, AUG, Tavor, and Scorpion EVO! www.manticorearms.com
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I haven't gotten around to working on mine yet but I will let you know.
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I'd buy that for a dollar!
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Guess I got lucky, my tool wasn’t broken, but I can see how it could be. Seems like a simple fix to cut off slip a piece of poly tubing over the end, or even just tape the thin tip to a square of cardboard or something.
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Originally Posted By Manticore_Arms: @ChengSMGT @spork Thanks for the feedback on the included punches guys...we were afraid that might happen. Let me know if you have any issues getting the pin out. We are looking at going a different route for all orders going forward, we spent a lot on getting those made and it is very frustrating they won't even hold up in shipping. Sven Manticore Arms View Quote I'm fine with mine, I am fairly resourceful. Probably going to JB Weld the stub in the handle for any future use. Just wanted to give you a heads-up on it. |
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You can get it out with a standard, unmodified punch. You're just going to bend it, and you might need vice grips to yank it out.
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Got mine installed. The tool being broken didn't slow me down.
The whole process was easier than I thought. I look forward to the next VHS2 upgrade Manticore comes up with. |
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I'd buy that for a dollar!
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Originally Posted By spork: Got mine installed. The tool being broken didn't slow me down. The whole process was easier than I thought. I look forward to the next VHS2 upgrade Manticore comes up with. View Quote Glad you were still able to make it work, also looking forward to Manitcore’s next set of products (Prays for handguards and triggers) |
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Shot mine today, first time since the new safety switch install. Much easier and more intuitive to use than the stock one.
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Springfield has the official German-made Croatian-issue bayonet available now in their webstore:
https://store.springfield-armory.com/waffentechnik-model-b2k-7-3-bayonet-fits-nato-pattern-rifles/ Attached File $300 is a little steep but looks cool. |
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Originally Posted By Findsman: Springfield has the official German-made Croatian-issue bayonet available now in their webstore: https://store.springfield-armory.com/waffentechnik-model-b2k-7-3-bayonet-fits-nato-pattern-rifles/ https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/35747/ge4618-1-1080x510-1_jpg-2938230.JPG $300 is a little steep but looks cool. View Quote Man the LOP in that pic looks nuts. Does anyone actually shoot this thing fully extended? Pic looks proportionally like shouldering an ar but the pistol grip is halfway up a 12 inch handguard. |
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We need a bullpup w/ a lower pic rail, and an electronic trigger/pistol grip module that QD mounts to the pic rail allowing adjustment of LOP, and solves the bullpup trigger pull issue.
Add an adjustable stock that covers a rear mechanical trigger when collapsed, and you have an emergency backup if your batteries die or you lose your electronic trigger module. Would also allow US bullpups under 26" w/ stock collapsed. |
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Death to quislings.
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Cool! Good to see my M7 will fit.
I was wondering if VHS used a proprietary bayonet. |
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Originally Posted By Findsman: Springfield has the official German-made Croatian-issue bayonet available now in their webstore: https://store.springfield-armory.com/waffentechnik-model-b2k-7-3-bayonet-fits-nato-pattern-rifles/ https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/35747/ge4618-1-1080x510-1_jpg-2938230.JPG $300 is a little steep but looks cool. View Quote Is a spare bolt too much to ask? |
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I always liked the Eickhorn Soligen KCB-77 series bayonets. Never heard of this brand.
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Any word on barrel/gas block combos? I’d rather add a 20” to my existing 16” gun instead of trading and losing my 16” rifle
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Originally Posted By Stonia: Man the LOP in that pic looks nuts. Does anyone actually shoot this thing fully extended? Pic looks proportionally like shouldering an ar but the pistol grip is halfway up a 12 inch handguard. View Quote I do. Don't have any problems. Sleeve length for me is 35". |
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Originally Posted By thehun06: Add a little flair to your Hellion! Not my business but thought I’d share what I found tonight … View Quote Krylon cheaper and covers way more….. |
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The Hellion just seems to be very well built and a solid rifle. I’m thinking of making it my “go to” as it is small enough and maneuverable but also reliable.
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Si vis pacem, para bellum
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A winner never quits, and a quitter never wins. Get comfortable being uncomfortable.
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Originally Posted By davidb1982: The Hellion just seems to be very well built and a solid rifle. I’m thinking of making it my “go to” as it is small enough and maneuverable but also reliable. View Quote Hellion, Aug, and x95 are all pretty good but my go to will always be an Aug, with a hellion in 2nd. |
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Picked up my 20" model this morning.
Attached File Came with a PMAG, stuck an ETS mag in there since it sorta resembles the factory mag. New safety is nice. Bayonet lug doesn't seem to fit an OKC-3S, M-7B, or an ancient M-7 so I'm guessing that lug is specific to the $300 German bayonet. Not a deal breaker, my Bren 805 carbine has a useless bayonet lug too. Went with a PA micro 5x with one of the PSA daily deal Truglo mini reflexes on top. Eye relief is pretty spot on, height is correct. Might not have purchased the original 16" had I known the 20" was coming. Oh well, can never have too many. What'll really hurt is if Springfield releases them in FDE or ODG.... ETA - I'd also like to give some credit here to Springfield, the Hellion line is pretty damn close to the original military VHS-2. Some slight tweaks for import and US-market but nothing too egregious like the IWI Carmel. This is how it should be done. |
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Support the Firearms Policy Coalition and help save the Second Amendment: https://www.firearmspolicy.org
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Originally Posted By Findsman: Picked up my 20" model this morning. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/35747/Springfield_Hellion_VHS-D2_JPG-2944710.JPG Came with a PMAG, stuck an ETS mag in there since it sorta resembles the factory mag. New safety is nice. Bayonet lug doesn't seem to fit an OKC-3S, M-7B, or an ancient M-7 so I'm guessing that lug is specific to the $300 German bayonet. Not a deal breaker, my Bren 805 carbine has a useless bayonet lug too. Went with a PA micro 5x with one of the PSA daily deal Truglo mini reflexes on top. Eye relief is pretty spot on, height is correct. Might not have purchased the original 16" had I known the 20" was coming. Oh well, can never have too many. What'll really hurt is if Springfield releases them in FDE or ODG.... ETA - I'd also like to give some credit here to Springfield, the Hellion line is pretty damn close to the original military VHS-2. Some slight tweaks for import and US-market but nothing too egregious like the IWI Carmel. This is how it should be done. View Quote Very nice setup - my plan was to do almost the exact same thing. How do you like that 5x? |
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The g**damn Germans ain't got nothin to do with it
GA, USA
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(total sarcasm, this is not an advertisement and does NOT need to be put into the EE) Anyone looking for a low serial number Tavor SAR? I need to sell it to fund my Hellion/VHS 2
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JJ McClure: When you don't want him, he's around. When you want him, he's not around. I'm gonna go get a beer.
Captain Chaos: DA-DA-DUUUMMMM |
Originally Posted By Findsman: Picked up my 20" model this morning. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/35747/Springfield_Hellion_VHS-D2_JPG-2944710.JPG Came with a PMAG, stuck an ETS mag in there since it sorta resembles the factory mag. New safety is nice. Bayonet lug doesn't seem to fit an OKC-3S, M-7B, or an ancient M-7 so I'm guessing that lug is specific to the $300 German bayonet. Not a deal breaker, my Bren 805 carbine has a useless bayonet lug too. Went with a PA micro 5x with one of the PSA daily deal Truglo mini reflexes on top. Eye relief is pretty spot on, height is correct. Might not have purchased the original 16" had I known the 20" was coming. Oh well, can never have too many. What'll really hurt is if Springfield releases them in FDE or ODG.... ETA - I'd also like to give some credit here to Springfield, the Hellion line is pretty damn close to the original military VHS-2. Some slight tweaks for import and US-market but nothing too egregious like the IWI Carmel. This is how it should be done. View Quote Could you do some side by sides with your 16” (rifle) to show feature differences? Also how do they handle compared to one another? Looks great! |
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Originally Posted By Karter14171: Very nice setup - my plan was to do almost the exact same thing. How do you like that 5x? View Quote I'll be honest, I'm not entirely blown away by it yet. Mostly just larping around the house so far though. Since it's a micro-prism, there's a definitely tradeoff in the optic brightness. Small objective lens, kinda dim if there's not good backlighting. It does sit at the right eye level with the mount configured at its lowest, at least for me. I've been bumping it forward/backward a slot on the rail trying to hit the exact eye relief. I have it two forward from when I took the pic and it seems okay. I went with the Aurora 5.56/.308 reticle and I think it was the right choice for me. I'm not military-trained so mildot reticles are dark magic to me. I like the Aurora design that comes in the 5x more than the Raptor in the 3x. So that's probably not quite the stellar endorsement you were hoping for. Some of it might be on me to accept the tradeoffs the micro-prism has for the size/weight reduction; I have a bunch of the "full-size" prisms from PA that I've liked and the optical clarity of a real ACOG is even a step above those but you pay for that. Maybe as I play with it more outside it'll shine. I'll try to get some comparison pics between the 16/20 today. The safety is the only overt difference I can really see aside from the barrel length. I put an A1 grip on the 16" version, seems like the angle works better with the goofy safety lever. I don't feel as compelled to swap the BCM grip on the 20" with the new safety, seems fairly easily to operate. ETA - Moved pics to page 11, at the top. |
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Originally Posted By Findsman: I'll be honest, I'm not entirely blown away by it yet. Mostly just larping around the house so far though. Since it's a micro-prism, there's a definitely tradeoff in the optic brightness. Small objective lens, kinda dim if there's not good backlighting. It does sit at the right eye level with the mount configured at its lowest, at least for me. I've been bumping it forward/backward a slot on the rail trying to hit the exact eye relief. I have it two forward from when I took the pic and it seems okay. I went with the Aurora 5.56/.308 reticle and I think it was the right choice for me. I'm not military-trained so mildot reticles are dark magic to me. I like the Aurora design that comes in the 5x more than the Raptor in the 3x. So that's probably not quite the stellar endorsement you were hoping for. Some of it might be on me to accept the tradeoffs the micro-prism has for the size/weight reduction; I have a bunch of the "full-size" prisms from PA that I've liked and the optical clarity of a real ACOG is even a step above those but you pay for that. Maybe as I play with it more outside it'll shine. I'll try to get some comparison pics between the 16/20 today. The safety is the only overt difference I can really see aside from the barrel length. I put an A1 grip on the 16" version, seems like the angle works better with the goofy safety lever. I don't feel as compelled to swap the BCM grip on the 20" with the new safety, seems fairly easily to operate. View Quote Does the new ambi-safety dig into your hand/trigger finger on your dominant hand, much like the scorpion or is there clearance? |
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