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USA
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Posted: 4/11/2023 7:59:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SPARKY4: Disappointed in mine. Took it to the range and was consistently 4” low at 25 yards (max at indoor range) after I buried the front sight post as low as it would go. I started about 6” or 7” low before the adjustments. Height Over Bore This gun doesn't get zeroed at 25 yards ... nor will it ... They get a 100m zero from factory  I had no issues getting my Mepro M21 on target at 50 meters ... 25 yards ... come on man ... its a rifle not a PCC ... |
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Posted: 4/11/2023 8:23:43 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SPARKY4: Disappointed in mine. Took it to the range and was consistently 4” low at 25 yards (max at indoor range) after I buried the front sight post as low as it would go. I started about 6” or 7” low before the adjustments. 4” low @ 25 yards is probably pretty close to a 50 yard zero. More than adequate. |
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Posted: 4/11/2023 9:05:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SPARKY4: Disappointed in mine. Took it to the range and was consistently 4” low at 25 yards (max at indoor range) after I buried the front sight post as low as it would go. I started about 6” or 7” low before the adjustments. This post hurt my brain. |
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Posted: 4/11/2023 11:19:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Default-Gateway: This post hurt my brain. How about you educate me on why I cannot zero the rifle at 25 yards (or come close) bottoming out the front sight post while using the 0-100 meter aperture. My other rifles gave me no issue. Yes I understand the difference between meters and yards. |
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Posted: 4/11/2023 11:21:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2111USMC: 4” low @ 25 yards is probably pretty close to a 50 yard zero. More than adequate. Thank you for this info. I will find another range with a longer capability and try it, or wait until I can get back to the desert. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 12:57:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SPARKY4: How about you educate me on why I cannot zero the rifle at 25 yards (or come close) bottoming out the front sight post while using the 0-100 meter aperture. My other rifles gave me no issue. Yes I understand the difference between meters and yards. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SPARKY4: Originally Posted By Default-Gateway: This post hurt my brain. How about you educate me on why I cannot zero the rifle at 25 yards (or come close) bottoming out the front sight post while using the 0-100 meter aperture. My other rifles gave me no issue. Yes I understand the difference between meters and yards. You remember your high school geometry? Look at the height over bore of your rear sight, then do the math to get the angle of the bbl to match your line of sight from the rear sight over your front sight and intersect at 25 yds. See how much higher the Hellion's sights are than an AR?  The 25/300 zero is for 5.56 ballistics w/ the sight height over bore of an AR - not any other combination. You're trying to do something your rifle isn't capable of, and isn't intended for. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 1:53:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SPARKY4]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: You remember your high school geometry? Look at the height over bore of your rear sight, then do the math to get the angle of the bbl to match your line of sight from the rear sight over your front sight and intersect at 25 yds. See how much higher the Hellion's sights are than an AR? https://files.springfield-armory.com/wp-content/uploads/hellion-sku-feature-grid-fb2-1024x1024.jpg The 25/300 zero is for 5.56 ballistics w/ the sight height over bore of an AR - not any other combination. You're trying to do something your rifle isn't capable of, and isn't intended for. This would make sense if the same sights were used on both rifles (spoiler 1 they are not) and they were fixed (spoiler 2 they are not). These are sights designed for this rifle and one setting is 0-100. Are you saying that point of impact is not affected by relation of front sight post to rear sight aperture? Why then would front sight posts be adjustable? I could easily site this rifle in at 25 yards (using the 0-100 aperture) with a file on the front sight post. Same as people who mix AR front sight blocks an different rear sights. ETA: what I am trying to say is height over bore does affect zero, but so does the height of the front sight in relation to the rear sight, and the front adjusts for that. |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 4:18:40 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SPARKY4: This would make sense if the same sights were used on both rifles (spoiler 1 they are not) and they were fixed (spoiler 2 they are not). These are sights designed for this rifle and one setting is 0-100. Are you saying that point of impact is not affected by relation of front sight post to rear sight aperture? Why then would front sight posts be adjustable? I could easily site this rifle in at 25 yards (using the 0-100 aperture) with a file on the front sight post. Same as people who mix AR front sight blocks an different rear sights. ETA: what I am trying to say is height over bore does affect zero, but as dousing the height of the front sight adjusts for that. 0-100 means hits on targets. Not bullseyes at 25. They are different sights, but that doesn't magically erase the extreme difference in height over bore the hellion has compared to the AR15. The line of sight, and trajectory of the round intersect at 100 yards. 25 yards is too close to zero. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/12/2023 10:36:35 AM EDT
[#9]
Zero on the 300 aperture, then dial down to 100
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USA
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Posted: 4/12/2023 2:19:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jm11513: 0-100 means hits on targets. Not bullseyes at 25. They are different sights, but that doesn't magically erase the extreme difference in height over bore the hellion has compared to the AR15. The line of sight, and trajectory of the round intersect at 100 yards. 25 yards is too close to zero. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jm11513: Originally Posted By SPARKY4: This would make sense if the same sights were used on both rifles (spoiler 1 they are not) and they were fixed (spoiler 2 they are not). These are sights designed for this rifle and one setting is 0-100. Are you saying that point of impact is not affected by relation of front sight post to rear sight aperture? Why then would front sight posts be adjustable? I could easily site this rifle in at 25 yards (using the 0-100 aperture) with a file on the front sight post. Same as people who mix AR front sight blocks an different rear sights. ETA: what I am trying to say is height over bore does affect zero, but as dousing the height of the front sight adjusts for that. 0-100 means hits on targets. Not bullseyes at 25. They are different sights, but that doesn't magically erase the extreme difference in height over bore the hellion has compared to the AR15. The line of sight, and trajectory of the round intersect at 100 yards. 25 yards is too close to zero. THIS!!! Again ... the Hellion's and many NON-AR platform HoB will never allow a proper 25 yard zero ... it ain't happening ... calling the rifle "disappointing" because of that is clown world ... Go zero at 50m and be done with it ... |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 3:25:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SPARKY4: This would make sense if the same sights were used on both rifles (spoiler 1 they are not) and they were fixed (spoiler 2 they are not). These are sights designed for this rifle and one setting is 0-100. Are you saying that point of impact is not affected by relation of front sight post to rear sight aperture? Why then would front sight posts be adjustable? I could easily site this rifle in at 25 yards (using the 0-100 aperture) with a file on the front sight post. Same as people who mix AR front sight blocks an different rear sights. ETA: what I am trying to say is height over bore does affect zero, but as dousing the height of the front sight adjusts for that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SPARKY4: Originally Posted By backbencher: You remember your high school geometry? Look at the height over bore of your rear sight, then do the math to get the angle of the bbl to match your line of sight from the rear sight over your front sight and intersect at 25 yds. See how much higher the Hellion's sights are than an AR? https://files.springfield-armory.com/wp-content/uploads/hellion-sku-feature-grid-fb2-1024x1024.jpg The 25/300 zero is for 5.56 ballistics w/ the sight height over bore of an AR - not any other combination. You're trying to do something your rifle isn't capable of, and isn't intended for. This would make sense if the same sights were used on both rifles (spoiler 1 they are not) and they were fixed (spoiler 2 they are not). These are sights designed for this rifle and one setting is 0-100. Are you saying that point of impact is not affected by relation of front sight post to rear sight aperture? Why then would front sight posts be adjustable? I could easily site this rifle in at 25 yards (using the 0-100 aperture) with a file on the front sight post. Same as people who mix AR front sight blocks an different rear sights. ETA: what I am trying to say is height over bore does affect zero, but as dousing the height of the front sight adjusts for that. Do the math, then get back to us. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/12/2023 3:58:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SPARKY4: This would make sense if the same sights were used on both rifles (spoiler 1 they are not) and they were fixed (spoiler 2 they are not). These are sights designed for this rifle and one setting is 0-100. Are you saying that point of impact is not affected by relation of front sight post to rear sight aperture? Why then would front sight posts be adjustable? I could easily site this rifle in at 25 yards (using the 0-100 aperture) with a file on the front sight post. Same as people who mix AR front sight blocks an different rear sights. ETA: what I am trying to say is height over bore does affect zero, but as dousing the height of the front sight adjusts for that. The front sight is adjustable for zeroing. Like I said in my other post, zero at 25 with the 3 (300) aperture then dial down to the 1 for short range shooting |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 6:49:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SPARKY4]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Do the math, then get back to us. Jeez, some people are an ass just to be an ass. Ok so assuming the following. 3.725” height over bore (center of barrel to center of sight). Orange and red lines in picture. 3.5” offset from muzzle to front sight 14.3125” sight radius 984.252” (25 meters) from barrel to target. Top of front sight post would need to be 0.662” below center of rear aperture, or just a hair less than 17/256” (just over 1/16”). Blue line in picture. This would result in less than 1/4 of a degree of angle (0.2130) adjustment that would be needed to zero a height over bore of 3.5” and a distance of 25 meters. This is based on the “geometry” part of the exercise that you suggested and does not take into account the physics portion (bullet rise/drop). Let me know where i am wrong. Not ms paint, but close enough.  Attached FileETA: I assume the front sight post has 1/16” of movement to accommodate this, but will check later. @backbencher math has been done |
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Posted: 4/12/2023 8:00:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mcantu: The front sight is adjustable for zeroing. Like I said in my other post, zero at 25 with the 3 (300) aperture then dial down to the 1 for short range shooting Thank you. I will try that. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/12/2023 11:16:35 PM EDT
[#15]
When I put an ACOG on mine I could only zero at 25 yards, so I used a ballistics calculator and figured out the drop at 25 yards, zero’d it at 25 yards, 3” low
Shot great out to 100 yards and was able to make more incremental adjustments once I extended the range |
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Posted: 4/13/2023 12:05:59 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MAKAK47: When I put an ACOG on mine I could only zero at 25 yards, so I used a ballistics calculator and figured out the drop at 25 yards, zero’d it at 25 yards, 3” low Shot great out to 100 yards and was able to make more incremental adjustments once I extended the range That is close to what I was getting with my sight buried. The remainder can probably be attributed to my old eyes. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/14/2023 2:36:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Pavia]
[#17]
The rifle is supposed to be sighted in on the 0-100M aperture to be on target at 100M. If you were hitting out of the box with no adjustments 6” low at 25yds, this is perfectly acceptable for a combat rifle… between 0 and 100M the rifle will hit the center mass of a human. If you want pinpoint bullseye accuracy at 25yds because that’s what you mainly shoot at, then do the 25/300 sight in described above or use an optic.
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USA
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Posted: 4/14/2023 10:32:22 AM EDT
[#18]
https://www.thearmorylife.com/how-to-use-hellion-iron-sights/
To start off, there is a “0” aperture for close-quarters use and as a night sight. The 0 aperture in my experience does work well with CQB shooting. I was able to pick it up quickly as I transitioned from target to target. The next up is a “1-2” aperture, which is used to zero the firearm at 100 meters and can also be used to shoot both 100 and 200 meters. Then, there are settings “3”, “4”, and “5”, each corresponding with that many hundred meters for distance shooting. So, for example, the “3” is used for 300 meters, the “4” for 400 meters and “5” for 500 meters. |
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Posted: 4/16/2023 9:51:04 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Is that your disqual for the rifle…lol Nope. Just getting flashbacks of ridiculous HOB on the M1A/M14 with chin and neck welds lol The VHS2 looks like a pretty good rifle overall and probably has the least felt recoil (due to the weight) vs other pups. |
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Posted: 4/16/2023 11:44:53 AM EDT
[#20]
Thank you everyone who provided actual feedback and did not just state (incorrectly) that it can’t be done.
The armorylife link from Ceaser2021 was especially helpful as was the recommendation to zero at 25 meters using the 300 meter aperture by mcantu. This is not the distance I usually shoot at, just the max distance at my indoor range that is less than 5 minutes from my house. I usually zero here to get on paper, then go to the desert where I make adjustments for the ability to have a longer distance. Armorylife hot linked |
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USA
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Posted: 5/6/2023 4:32:42 PM EDT
[#21]
my review for folks considering this rifle:
 Springfield Hellion Review: The Best Bullpup? |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2023 10:42:44 PM EDT
[#22]
Interesting, he said the Military version has a chrome lined bbl
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 3:26:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Any news on aftermarket parts yet?
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Posted: 5/12/2023 5:29:25 PM EDT
[#24]
A comment regarding the bolt release...
You don't have to pinch those two tabs together. You just have to yank the movable one back. Insert mag, then hook finger, yank. Putting your thumb on the fixed "ridge" doesn't really gain you anything and makes the process take longer than it should. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 8:52:08 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mrgunsngear: my review for folks considering this rifle:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RexA4u2LgiIGreat review. I was impressed with the accuracy. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2023 10:08:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chris_1522: A comment regarding the bolt release... You don't have to pinch those two tabs together. You just have to yank the movable one back. Insert mag, then hook finger, yank. Putting your thumb on the fixed "ridge" doesn't really gain you anything and makes the process take longer than it should. Yup, I yank it back with the base of my index finger. Still, it's not the most well designed feature. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/13/2023 9:59:55 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Yup, I yank it back with the base of my index finger. Still, it's not the most well designed feature. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Originally Posted By Chris_1522: A comment regarding the bolt release... You don't have to pinch those two tabs together. You just have to yank the movable one back. Insert mag, then hook finger, yank. Putting your thumb on the fixed "ridge" doesn't really gain you anything and makes the process take longer than it should. Yup, I yank it back with the base of my index finger. Still, it's not the most well designed feature. I personally actually like the bolt release ... its in a central location like the mag release ... yes not AR ergos ... but where its at ... it makes "bully" sense ... |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/13/2023 12:11:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Scrapple]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: I personally actually like the bolt release ... its in a central location like the mag release ... yes not AR ergos ... but where its at ... it makes "bully" sense ... I would just like to see it reshaped for more positive engagement, and also be able to function as a bolt hold open. Unrelated: anyone have a Trijicon TA11 ACOG on their VHS2? |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2023 8:25:07 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mrgunsngear: my review for folks considering this rifle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RexA4u2LgiII'd like to make a note that the cheek piece on the Hellion/VHS2 is not designed nor intended to be used as an adjustable comb height ... |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2023 12:01:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: OTHP]
[#30]
brought one home yesterday.
Shoots well no problems accept I do indeed have to swap it over to lefty since the cases hit my right shojlder snd bounce back into my neck for some nice burns. Worked in N and S mode with my 30 cal can. Didn't even have to sight it in was on right where I put the front post from 50 ft out to about 175. Yrds. Not sure what bull pup I like better . My AUG A1 40th anny 20 inch or this one. But I do like the VHS2 for sure. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2023 12:14:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: I'd like to make a note that the cheek piece on the Hellion/VHS2 is not designed nor intended to be used as an adjustable comb height ... |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2023 1:03:14 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mcantu: what's it for then? Disassembly and assembly. Cheek piece has a function. Obviously. But it’s function isn’t to change angle/height… |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2023 1:10:38 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Disassembly and assembly. Cheek piece has a function. Obviously. But it’s function isn’t to change angle/height… Yeah I think that Mrgunsngear was under the impression that it was adjustable for shooting. It's only designed to move for changing of the ejection side. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2023 2:07:24 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chris_1522: A comment regarding the bolt release... You don't have to pinch those two tabs together. You just have to yank the movable one back. Insert mag, then hook finger, yank. Putting your thumb on the fixed "ridge" doesn't really gain you anything and makes the process take longer than it should. I wonder if they made an extended bolt release so you could just smack it… if that would do anything |
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Posted: 5/14/2023 2:22:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mcantu: what's it for then? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mcantu: Originally Posted By thehun06: I'd like to make a note that the cheek piece on the Hellion/VHS2 is not designed nor intended to be used as an adjustable comb height ... It's purpose is to retain the pin that holds on the off side port cover. If it wasn't reversible then there would be no need for it to be movable. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2023 3:41:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Yeah I think that Mrgunsngear was under the impression that it was adjustable for shooting. It's only designed to move for changing of the ejection side. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Originally Posted By thehun06: Disassembly and assembly. Cheek piece has a function. Obviously. But it’s function isn’t to change angle/height… Yeah I think that Mrgunsngear was under the impression that it was adjustable for shooting. It's only designed to move for changing of the ejection side. Most every one was/is because it "moves" ... but you know ... who reads a manual anymore ... lol |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2023 4:36:12 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MAKAK47: I wonder if they made an extended bolt release so you could just smack it… if that would do anything I think that an extended / reshaped bolt release would definitely help, but I would like to see both stop functionality added as well. |
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Posted: 5/14/2023 8:42:14 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Yeah I think that Mrgunsngear was under the impression that it was adjustable for shooting. It's only designed to move for changing of the ejection side. Yeah I'm not sure where he got that, it only moves because it needs to in order to lock/unlock the peg that holds the unused port cover in place. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/15/2023 12:03:47 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Default-Gateway: It's purpose is to retain the pin that holds on the off side port cover. If it wasn't reversible then there would be no need for it to be movable. I read the manual. I don't know who in the hell edited that thing but it has a number of errors, especially in the exploded views. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/15/2023 6:15:13 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Yeah I think that Mrgunsngear was under the impression that it was adjustable for shooting. It's only designed to move for changing of the ejection side. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: Originally Posted By thehun06: Disassembly and assembly. Cheek piece has a function. Obviously. But it’s function isn’t to change angle/height… Yeah I think that Mrgunsngear was under the impression that it was adjustable for shooting. It's only designed to move for changing of the ejection side. I think the military version is an adjustable comb riser. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/15/2023 10:40:38 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Caeser2001: I think the military version is an adjustable comb riser. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Caeser2001: Originally Posted By Scrapple: Originally Posted By thehun06: Disassembly and assembly. Cheek piece has a function. Obviously. But it’s function isn’t to change angle/height… Yeah I think that Mrgunsngear was under the impression that it was adjustable for shooting. It's only designed to move for changing of the ejection side. I think the military version is an adjustable comb riser. That is a negative ghost rider … |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/24/2023 5:14:54 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manticore_Arms: @Scrapple I learned some years ago never to show your hand until the product is ready to ship. That being said I expect our first two products for the Hellion to launch in 60-90 days, parts are already in process. Any updates on this? Still looking at within another month or so? Eager to see what you guys have come up with! |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/24/2023 5:38:58 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mrgunsngear: my review for folks considering this rifle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RexA4u2LgiI@Mrgunsngear if you had to choose one bullpup to go to war with, what one would it be? I don't think I would pick the Hellion. I think I would grab my x95 or my Aug. |
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Posted: 5/30/2023 10:25:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Karter14171: Any updates on this? Still looking at within another month or so? Eager to see what you guys have come up with!  Attached File...patiently of course 
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Posted: 5/31/2023 3:16:41 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DevilDog0402: @Manticore_Arms /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/F09DE067-47F9-4C4C-934C-223722121019-480.gif ...patiently of course Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DevilDog0402: Originally Posted By Karter14171: Any updates on this? Still looking at within another month or so? Eager to see what you guys have come up with! /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/F09DE067-47F9-4C4C-934C-223722121019-480.gif ...patiently of course This! Bring on the upgrades, please! |
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USA
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Posted: 6/6/2023 8:05:40 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spork: This! Bring on the upgrades, please! Would love an ETA at minimum |
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USA
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Posted: 6/10/2023 7:33:30 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MAKAK47: Would love an ETA at minimum Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MAKAK47: Originally Posted By spork: This! Bring on the upgrades, please! Would love an ETA at minimum I d like to know what products they have in the works, even if there isn’t a set timeline? Can we get some teaser pics at least? |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/10/2023 11:05:58 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Caeser2001: I d like to know what products they have in the works, even if there isn’t a set timeline? Can we get some teaser pics at least? Yeah I'm much more interested in the WHAT, I can wait for the WHEN. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 6/11/2023 5:10:45 AM EDT
[#49]
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bullpups/comments/141zq1o/vhsk2_being_used_by_isis_in_recent_attack_on/
Obviously, we're no fan of ISIS, but this is a great combat pic of the VHS-2. 
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USA
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Posted: 6/11/2023 9:47:12 AM EDT
[#50]
They are 100K+ in service in Iraq ... so this is not a surprise that the bad dudes are getting their hands on the VHS ..
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