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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:28:37 PM EDT
 Corbon and Underwood are loading the cartridge and Briley is making GLOCK conversion kits! THE .356 TSW - PROMISING CARTRIDGE BACK FROM THE DEAD. WRITTEN BY MASSAD AYOOB    TL;DR It is a cartridge with the overall length of 9x19mm, but since it is a longer case. It can replicate the 124gr .357 Magnum from a 9mm framed Automatic. No difference in capacity. A G17 holds 17rd of .356 TSW. So all the benefit and none of the negative like the .357 Sig. |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:31:50 PM EDT
[#1]
That ship has sailed.
About 15 years ago |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:33:52 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:34:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Looks to me like what .38 Super could have been... slightly more cartridge capacity than 9mm, but generally the same in the other dimensions.
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:35:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Cool.
They probably need more factory guns and a major manufacturer like Hornady to pick it up in order for it to stick. |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:35:42 PM EDT
[#5]
That's a big solid meh.
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:36:28 PM EDT
[#6]
I briefly remember that round.
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:37:14 PM EDT
[#7]
what's the negative with .357 sig?
seemed good enough at that texas church shooting. |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:38:06 PM EDT
[#8]
That article is meh. Just what are all these issues with the 357sig cartridge he mentions?
Good luck finding ammo for that, and didn’t they say the federal load was basically 9mm velocity? So just like 10mm, true potential was never realized. |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:40:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That ship has sailed. About 15 years ago |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:41:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what's the negative with .357 sig? seemed good enough at that texas church shooting. |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:42:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That article is meh. Just what are all these issues with the 357sig cartridge he mentions? Good luck finding ammo for that, and didn't they say the federal load was basically 9mm velocity? So just like 10mm, true potential was never realized. |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:44:33 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what's the negative with .357 sig? seemed good enough at that texas church shooting. Cost. But it's not like 9mm can be had today at any price.  |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:44:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL.... .356 TSW is a hell of a self defense cartridge and having it in a G19 would be great. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That ship has sailed. About 15 years ago So great that it never went anywhere. |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:45:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lower capacity since it is a bigger case. 15 vs 17? Hardly a problem. |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:46:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Super short neck is also less than ideal.
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:46:45 PM EDT
[#16]
lol no.
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:47:49 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So great that it never went anywhere. Yeah, have to wonder, the ability to make a barrel has been around since the cartridge was introduced. |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:48:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So great that it never went anywhere. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: That ship has sailed. About 15 years ago So great that it never went anywhere.  S&W 3566: An IPSC Game-Changer that Didn’t Also, S&W didn't market it well outside of being a competitive shooting cartridge. |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:48:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IPSC killed the gun and cartridge when they changed the rules.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2jU5cp4WCgAlso, S&W didn't market it well outside of being a competitive shooting cartridge. Yup. They screwed up big time on marketing |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:50:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup. They screwed up big time on marketing Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: IPSC killed the gun and cartridge when they changed the rules. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2jU5cp4WCgAlso, S&W didn't market it well outside of being a competitive shooting cartridge. Yup. They screwed up big time on marketing |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:52:49 PM EDT
[#21]
9mm magnum.
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:53:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what's the negative with .357 sig? seemed good enough at that texas church shooting. You lose 2 shots vs a G17 mag. OMG  Such a game changer.  Never heard of the round. Interesting. |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:53:15 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what's the negative with .357 sig? seemed good enough at that texas church shooting. .357 Sig is just a .40 S&W case sized down to shoot .355 bullet. That means it uses a 40 S&W sized case and .40 S&W capacity (Vs. 9mm capacity) 13 (vs. 15 rounds( or 15 (Vs. 17 rounds) in same sized frames. |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:53:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks to me like what .38 Super could have been... slightly more cartridge capacity than 9mm, but generally the same in the other dimensions. Bingo |
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Posted: 10/18/2020 11:58:39 PM EDT
[#25]
9mm could use some improvement. The only difference with this is the brass, and it is a drop in barrel replacement- makes me wonder if you couldn’t just have a factory barrel’s chamber lengthened for the longer casing instead of buying an all new barrel.
I might tinker with this cartridge sometime....if the brass isn’t ridiculous expensive it could be interesting. Make 9mm Great! (Notice no “again” included!) |
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Posted: 10/19/2020 12:01:29 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what's the negative with .357 sig? seemed good enough at that texas church shooting. More powder than could ever burn in a pistol barrel resulting in excess noise and flash?  I like shooting .357 Sig and would carry it if I ever thought barrier penetration such as a car door was a concern. DPS shot a suspect in the pelvis through his door during a chase. He quit running immediately. Not sure 9mm would have made it inside the vehicle. There’s nothing wrong with more options. Don’t recall ever hearing of .356. |
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Posted: 10/19/2020 12:02:02 AM EDT
[#27]
2020 has been retarded enough without this nonsense.
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Posted: 10/19/2020 12:02:44 AM EDT
[#28]
Losing the bottleneck feeding advantage that .357 Sig offers is not a good thing.
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Posted: 10/19/2020 12:04:45 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what's the negative with .357 sig? seemed good enough at that texas church shooting. Do you think the result would have been different with virtually any cartridge? |
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Posted: 10/19/2020 12:09:57 AM EDT
[#30]
That really sounds like an answer to a question no one asked.
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Posted: 10/19/2020 12:11:49 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bingo Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looks to me like what .38 Super could have been... slightly more cartridge capacity than 9mm, but generally the same in the other dimensions. Bingo .38 super case was too weak and was simi rimed |
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Posted: 10/19/2020 12:14:12 AM EDT
[#32]
960 Rowland has pretty much outclassed it. Though, since it has more case capacity than the 960 it could be loaded hotter still.
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Posted: 10/19/2020 12:17:35 AM EDT
[#33]
An answer to a question no one asked.
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Posted: 10/19/2020 12:17:44 AM EDT
[#34]
.224 Boz needs a rebirth! ??
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Posted: 10/19/2020 12:17:45 AM EDT
[#35]
Why not just use +p+?
Doesn't that have around 1600fps? |
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Posted: 10/19/2020 12:25:34 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why not just use +p+? Doesn't that have around 1600fps? Some may. I recall a Hertenberger 100 grain conical +P+ that was around 1400 FPS out of a G19. The company sold, the resulting product is hot garbage, and the load made a G19 run like a sewing machine. It was good stuff. Sadly,,,,,,times change, and not always for the better. |
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Posted: 10/19/2020 12:44:40 AM EDT
[#37]
So, just a high pressure loading w/ a long enough case to hope it doesn't find it's way into old Lugers and such?
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Posted: 10/19/2020 1:01:09 AM EDT
[#38]
I remember when they originally came out with the TSW but for some reason it was introduced “tactical” Perf Center 3566 TSW pistol. It was the same price as an HK P7M13 at that time! We were issued 5906s by the department and could carry any S&W auto but most purchased and carried a Sig P226 or P228 for on/off duty use.
Just like the 451 Detonics and 41AE it was supposedly the next big thing in calibers and went away quickly. |
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Posted: 10/19/2020 1:14:28 AM EDT
[#39]
That’s very interesting.
Of course I thought one of the big advantages of 9mm was fast follow up shots due to lower recoil, than 40, et al. (Disclaimer: I like 40. And 9mm.) I will echo the comment that the difference between 15 and 17 rounds in a mag is minimal in real world application. |
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Posted: 10/19/2020 1:19:03 AM EDT
[#40]
I’ll stick with my 357 sig. don’t own a 9 mm handgun. All 40sw and 357 sig. I’ll put a different baseplate on the mag if the 2 rounds bugs you that much.
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Posted: 10/19/2020 1:31:04 AM EDT
[#41]
I remember when it first showed up in magazines articles. Then it vanished. It does look like a well thought out design.
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Posted: 10/19/2020 1:35:50 AM EDT
[#42]
Suddenly, it's not at all difficult to imagine how 'tarded GD would act if GD existed when Elmer Keith was developing .357mag and .44mag.
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Posted: 10/19/2020 1:37:26 AM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 10/19/2020 1:39:22 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .357 Sig is just a .40 S&W case sized down to shoot .355 bullet. That means it uses a 40 S&W sized case and .40 S&W capacity (Vs. 9mm capacity) 13 (vs. 15 rounds( or 15 (Vs. 17 rounds) in same sized frames. |
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Posted: 10/19/2020 1:50:30 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Why not just use +p+? Doesn't that have around 1600fps? Because doing stuff like that on a commercial scale is stupid. Cartridges have specifications for several reasons. At the top of the list is so that firearms can be properly designed for the cartridge. Quoted: So, just a high pressure loading w/ a long enough case to hope it doesn't find it's way into old Lugers and such? That's how high pressure loadings are developed intelligently and responsibly. |
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Posted: 10/19/2020 1:56:36 AM EDT
[#46]
It was a failure then and it'll be a failure again.
You have the following in terms of usage. 9mm 45acp 40s&w 357sig 10mm In ten years the 10mm will pass the 357sig once any agency with them would have switched to 9mm leaving only individual Kool-Aid drinkers, which the 10mm clearly has more of. 20 years from now, the 40s&w will be thought of as an old quaint memory, like 357sig & 45gap. |
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Posted: 10/19/2020 1:58:04 AM EDT
[#47]
I remember reading about that cartridge when it first came out. I think it sounds great. Note, I'm going to have to see actual factory ammo pushing a 125 grainer to 1450 fps. So frequently when people talk about the 357 sig matching 357 magnums, they are talking about the tame 125 grain at 1250 fps levels. These guys seem to be getting in the 1350 level, still shy of true 1450 level.
I'd also note that Corbon and Underwood always loaded HOT. They've greatly reduced their catalog of 357 magnum loads, but they used to put out a zinger that was 125 grains at 1750 fps. Underwood does a 140 grainer at 1550 fps, and two different 125 grain loads at 1800 So this is looking like 356 TSW is 80% what 357 Magnum is. Also: Fiocchi makes a 125 grain 357 mag at 1575 fps Buffalo Bore makes a 125 grain 357 mag at 1700 fps Double Tap makes a pair of 125 grain 357 mag at 1750 fps Armscor makes a 125 grian 357 mag at 1825 fps Now, in many cases 'regular' 125 grain at 1450 can have excessive muzzle flash, and recoils quite a bit. Why isn't this also a problem in a semi-auto? Maybe that's why they are staying around 1300 fps. |
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Posted: 10/19/2020 2:04:50 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what's the negative with .357 sig? seemed good enough at that texas church shooting. 357 sig will have 40 S&W mag capacity levels 356 TSW will have 9mm mag capacity levels. They will be ballistically the same. If the same exact gun can hold 15 rounds of .355 wide bullets 124 grain going 1350 or 17 rounds of .355 wide bullets 124 grain going 1350...wouldn't you want the 17 rounder? |
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Posted: 10/19/2020 2:09:03 AM EDT
[#49]
Based on the name alone that round will never be popular. Too long and awkward
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Posted: 10/19/2020 2:13:04 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was a failure then and it'll be a failure again. You have the following in terms of usage. 9mm 45acp 40s&w 357sig 10mm In ten years the 10mm will pass the 357sig once any agency with them would have switched to 9mm leaving only individual Kool-Aid drinkers, which the 10mm clearly has more of. 20 years from now, the 40s&w will be thought of as an old quaint memory, like 357sig & 45gap. .357sig and .45gap never had mass adoption. I think I know exactly one guy personally who owns a .357sig firearm. I know another guy that bought some .45gap ammo on clearance so he could feed it to a revolver, but I don't think I've known anybody that owned a .45gap firearm. Meanwhile, there were millions of .40s&w pistols built. |
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