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Posted: 8/29/2023 9:30:57 PM EDT
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66581217
There has been a dramatic rise in Ukraine's number of dead, according to new estimates by unnamed US officials. The BBC's Quentin Sommerville has been on the front line in the east, where the grim task of counting the dead has become a daily reality. The unknown soldiers lie piled high in a small brick mortuary, not very far from the front line in Donetsk, where 26-year-old Margo says she speaks to the dead. "It may sound weird… but I'm the one who wants to apologise for their deaths. I want to thank them somehow. It's as if they can hear, but they can't respond." At her cluttered desk outside the mortuary's heavy door, she sits, pen in hand. It is her job to record the particulars of the fallen. Ukraine gives no official toll of its war dead - the Ukrainian armed forces have reiterated that their war casualty numbers are a state secret - but Margo knows the losses are huge. The figures remain classified. But US officials, quoted by the New York Times, recently put the number at 70,000 dead and as many as 120,000 injured. It is a staggering figure, from an armed forces estimated at only half a million strong. The UN has recorded 9,177 civilian deaths to date. On Margo's inside right arm is a small tattoo of a mother and child, with the birthdate of her son recorded. Her manicured nails are painted in Ukrainian colours. She wears a black T-shirt with the words "I'M UKRAINIAN" on the front. "The hardest is when you see a dead young guy who hasn't even reached 20, 22 years old. And realising they didn't die their own death," she says. "They were killed. They were killed for their own land. That's the most painful. You cannot get used to this. It's now getting to the point where it's just about [helping] the boys reach home." The most difficult day of her life, she says, was when her common-law husband was brought into the mortuary on the day he died. Twenty-three-year-old Andrii was killed in battle on 29 December 2022. "He died while defending his motherland," she says. "But then, for the umpteenth time, I've convinced myself that I should be here, I should be helping the fallen." |
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That's how offensive actions against static fortifications work when you can't JDAM anything that moves.
Sucks for everyone involved. |
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I'm having trouble connecting to Twitter (X) right now but watch Tucker's interview with the general when he talks about Ukraine's losses.
I don't know the guy well but he puts Ukraine losses at 400,000 and Russia around 40,000 IIRC. |
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I suspect the casualty numbers are getting massaged by both sides to suit whatever narrative is being pushed. I wonder if the actual tally will ever be remotely accurate.
Unfortunately, a whole bunch of people died at the whims of politicians who have risked nothing but their fortunes and the tax dollars of people who have no say in the matter. |
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In before it's claimed that the BBC and New York Times are russian propaganda.
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Sad but they are willing to lay down their lives to save their country from Russia. We should support them.
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lol, bbc is literally Russian poon...
...rating this one as troll |
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Quoted: I'm having trouble connecting to Twitter (X) right now but watch Tucker's interview with the general when he talks about Ukraine's losses. I don't know the guy well but he puts Ukraine losses at 400,000 and Russia around 40,000 IIRC. View Quote Tucker is a retard selling people what they want to hear. The numbers from both sides are trash, and the Western nations can only best guess at this point. |
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Quoted: Tucker is a retard selling people what they want to hear. The numbers from both sides are trash, and the Western nations can only best guess at this point. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I'm having trouble connecting to Twitter (X) right now but watch Tucker's interview with the general when he talks about Ukraine's losses. I don't know the guy well but he puts Ukraine losses at 400,000 and Russia around 40,000 IIRC. Tucker is a retard selling people what they want to hear. The numbers from both sides are trash, and the Western nations can only best guess at this point. |
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So pointless. More tens of thousands will die for a few kilometers of farm fields and tiny villages
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Quoted: I can certainly agree with that. Like I said, I don't know the general (R) but Ukraine hasn't been kicking ass with this offensive. Hell, maybe I'm wrong, send me a link. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm having trouble connecting to Twitter (X) right now but watch Tucker's interview with the general when he talks about Ukraine's losses. I don't know the guy well but he puts Ukraine losses at 400,000 and Russia around 40,000 IIRC. Tucker is a retard selling people what they want to hear. The numbers from both sides are trash, and the Western nations can only best guess at this point. Whatever your personal views... Making the Black sea untenable for Russia and destroying half of their KA-52 is pretty damned impressive. ... And funny. It makes me chuckle thinking about 40 year old Stinger missiles slaying ultra modern attack helicopters. |
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Dozens per day is probably on the low side.
America has been spoiled by low casualty wars. |
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They are probably being pushed hard into the Frontline to get some results for the offense.
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Quoted: I'm having trouble connecting to Twitter (X) right now but watch Tucker's interview with the general when he talks about Ukraine's losses. I don't know the guy well but he puts Ukraine losses at 400,000 and Russia around 40,000 IIRC. View Quote Ukraine has the benefit of exterior intelligence. I could see Ukraine and Russia having similar losses, but my guess is Russia's losses are a little worse because good intel drives superior targeting. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I'm having trouble connecting to Twitter (X) right now but watch Tucker's interview with the general when he talks about Ukraine's losses. I don't know the guy well but he puts Ukraine losses at 400,000 and Russia around 40,000 IIRC. Col. MacGregor? Didn't I see something about him I didn't like a few months ago? I may have to rethink my OP because I think I didn't like that guy... |
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Quoted: That's pretty ridiculous. Ukraine has the benefit of exterior intelligence. I could see Ukraine and Russia having similar losses, but my guess is Russia's losses are a little worse because good intel drives superior targeting. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I'm having trouble connecting to Twitter (X) right now but watch Tucker's interview with the general when he talks about Ukraine's losses. I don't know the guy well but he puts Ukraine losses at 400,000 and Russia around 40,000 IIRC. Ukraine has the benefit of exterior intelligence. I could see Ukraine and Russia having similar losses, but my guess is Russia's losses are a little worse because good intel drives superior targeting. |
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its damn bloody any way you measure it
my guess is Russia's is multiples worse due to medevac / casualty care protocols and deficiencies horrible statistics to attempt to quantify as Ukraine is fighting on their own soil to expel Russian invaders. Ukraine is fighting for their existence -- we should continue to support them. |
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Quoted: That sounds right. I still can't get on Twitter to get a link. Didn't I see something about him I didn't like a few months ago? I may have to rethink my OP because I think I didn't like that guy... View Quote MacGregor's been preaching that Ukraine is going to collapse within weeks, its army surrounded and destroyed, soldiers surrendering in hundreds of man groups, etc since the first weeks of the invasion. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I'm having trouble connecting to Twitter (X) right now but watch Tucker's interview with the general when he talks about Ukraine's losses. I don't know the guy well but he puts Ukraine losses at 400,000 and Russia around 40,000 IIRC. If you believe that, you're the intended audience. |
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Quoted: My understanding a few month ago was that both sides were getting fucked up pretty bad. View Quote Both have pretty effective anti air systems and no good ability to gain full air superiority. Both sides are grinding it out and the end is nowhere close. Russia cannot win as long as Ukraine continues to get outside support. Ukraine doesn't have the populace and production to drive Russia out on their own. They're stuck hoping Russia will decide its not worth it, which may happen, but will probably take a few more years minimum. |
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They are not going to win....eventually the Russians will overtake them...... its just a matter of time...... stop finding this cover up for the Bidens that is all this is......!!!!
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Quoted: I'm having trouble connecting to Twitter (X) right now but watch Tucker's interview with the general when he talks about Ukraine's losses. I don't know the guy well but he puts Ukraine losses at 400,000 and Russia around 40,000 IIRC. View Quote Yep, in the first few minutes of the interview, that clown said UKR had 400,000 KIA. Don’t know why anyone would have listened to anything past that. |
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Quoted: Yep, in the first few minutes of the interview, that clown said UKR had 400,000 KIA. Don’t know why anyone would have listened to anything past that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I'm having trouble connecting to Twitter (X) right now but watch Tucker's interview with the general when he talks about Ukraine's losses. I don't know the guy well but he puts Ukraine losses at 400,000 and Russia around 40,000 IIRC. Yep, in the first few minutes of the interview, that clown said UKR had 400,000 KIA. Don’t know why anyone would have listened to anything past that. Sure you do. They want it to be true, so they ignore reason |
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Quoted: Sure you do. They want it to be true, so they ignore reason View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm having trouble connecting to Twitter (X) right now but watch Tucker's interview with the general when he talks about Ukraine's losses. I don't know the guy well but he puts Ukraine losses at 400,000 and Russia around 40,000 IIRC. Yep, in the first few minutes of the interview, that clown said UKR had 400,000 KIA. Don't know why anyone would have listened to anything past that. Sure you do. They want it to be true, so they ignore reason Man, I like you, don't fuck it up. I was sharing what I saw on a video. See the part above about I don't know the guy well. |
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Rate this one a troll since Ukraine is defeating Russia by brutalizing minefields with thier stomping feet.
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Quoted: Man, I like you, don't fuck it up. I was sharing what I saw on a video. See the part above about I don't know the guy well. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm having trouble connecting to Twitter (X) right now but watch Tucker's interview with the general when he talks about Ukraine's losses. I don't know the guy well but he puts Ukraine losses at 400,000 and Russia around 40,000 IIRC. Yep, in the first few minutes of the interview, that clown said UKR had 400,000 KIA. Don't know why anyone would have listened to anything past that. Sure you do. They want it to be true, so they ignore reason Man, I like you, don't fuck it up. I was sharing what I saw on a video. See the part above about I don't know the guy well. Use your critical thinking, and you will know him well enough to dismiss him as a clown. |
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The numbers are not in Ukraine's favor.
Russia should have crushed them by now, clearly Russia's military sucked worse than anyone thought possible but, the numbers are still not in Ukraine's favor. |
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Quoted: The numbers are not in Ukraine's favor. Russia should have crushed them by now, clearly Russia's military sucked worse than anyone thought possible but, the numbers are still not in Ukraine's favor. View Quote Nope. But day by day, they grind forward a few hundred meters in some places, and hold the line in others. |
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Quoted: I'm having trouble connecting to Twitter (X) right now but watch Tucker's interview with the general when he talks about Ukraine's losses. I don't know the guy well but he puts Ukraine losses at 400,000 and Russia around 40,000 IIRC. View Quote Two apologists parroting Russian propaganda talking points. |
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Quoted: I'm having trouble connecting to Twitter (X) right now but watch Tucker's interview with the general when he talks about Ukraine's losses. I don't know the guy well but he puts Ukraine losses at 400,000 and Russia around 40,000 IIRC. View Quote Yeah, his casualty counts were another reason that I didn’t believe him… |
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Quoted: Two apologists parroting Russian propaganda talking points. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I'm having trouble connecting to Twitter (X) right now but watch Tucker's interview with the general when he talks about Ukraine's losses. I don't know the guy well but he puts Ukraine losses at 400,000 and Russia around 40,000 IIRC. Two apologists parroting Russian propaganda talking points. Propaganda points? Ghost of Kiev? Marines on an island telling Russia off as they are wiped out? Ring any bells? Both sides are guilty of propaganda. |
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Given the war has bogged down to a war of attrition, you can probably use the casualty rates and ratios from WWI to make estimates.
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Quoted: its damn bloody any way you measure it my guess is Russia's is multiples worse due to medevac / casualty care protocols and deficiencies horrible statistics to attempt to quantify as Ukraine is fighting on their own soil to expel Russian invaders. Ukraine is fighting for their existence -- we should continue to support them. View Quote We should continue to support them, as it was us continually poking the bear that started this whole mess. |
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Quoted: Nope. But day by day, they grind forward a few hundred meters in some places, and hold the line in others. View Quote You're an active duty officer as I recall. I have a question of you if you don't mind. Other than things like your obvious interest in this conflict, who is responsible for watching this war and squeezing out as much information and learning as we can out of it? The Intelligence depts. of each service, or is there something unified? It occurred to me that the tactical and logistics lessons may well outweigh even the notion of putting down the Russian army. |
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At this point, any " new" Ukraine threads should be called as a dupe.
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