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My great, great grandfather was there. At the end of the war he was a 1st LT. I believe that he was a SGT at Gettysburg.
K Co. 142nd PA Volunteer Infantry. |
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In reality it was three things: 1) Fog of war on the first day 2) A certain Colonel Chamberlain pulling off a minor miracle after a poor decision by Lee 3) A truly stupid decision by Lee on day 3. If Lee had won at Gettysburg, heaven only knows how history would have unfolded. It is truly one of those turning points... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It is amazing to me that one error compounded upon another caused the confederate army to lose that battle - not superior tactics by the federal army. In reality it was three things: 1) Fog of war on the first day 2) A certain Colonel Chamberlain pulling off a minor miracle after a poor decision by Lee 3) A truly stupid decision by Lee on day 3. If Lee had won at Gettysburg, heaven only knows how history would have unfolded. It is truly one of those turning points... That was day two. And I wouldn't exactly call it a poor decision to attack the Round Tops/Devils Den area. Had an egotistical Union general named Daniel Sickles not moved his men forward into an untenable position (against direct orders), Lee would not have been delayed and Hood's Division would've taken the area and rolled up the Union flank. An argument can be made too that Lee might well have been right to believe the Union center was weak on the third day, as well - and for a time it was. Unfortunately, the overall Union position allowed for quick movement/reinforcement and Lee's artillery was ineffective, too - due to topography and bad fuses. One could also give blame to Longstreet who drug his feet all day, delaying his attack until afternoon - which broke up the coordination with Ewell's forces attacking late morning from the north/north-east against Cemetery Hill Edit: Culp's Hill. Further, the first day was, at best, a draw. Union forces held the high ground - not by accident, but by Renolds' brilliant fall back plan (using the town itself to aid in the [potential] retreat to Cemetery Hill: devised before he was killed, but executed afterward) and Buford's tenacious defense/delaying tactics. The Reb's "coordinated" attack was really a "happy accident" and NOT because of any master battle plan. It only happened because Lee had ordered the army to converge at Gettysburg (or Cashtown) because he'd learned the Union forces were approaching the general area. |
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thats not an enitrely accurate statement. Antietam was the bloodiest single day battle. so technically..youre gtg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Feels weird having your birthday fall on the anniversary of the bloodiest day in American history. That's actually being called into question nowadays. Although it's impossible to say for sure, it's now believed by many historians that the 2nd day at Gettysburg exceeded Sharpsburg as the bloodiest day in US history. |
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Quoted: Jackson would've said something bizarre and quotable, done some strange manuever with all his men, attacked somewhere he wasn't supposed to be, and won the day. But I don't think Jackson would've wanted to leave unless Lee had really ordered him to do so. View Quote This is probably close to the truth if Jackson had been around. Also, most likely if Jackson had been there, he would have pushed that first day, and not let the Union have the high ground. Lee issued (as he usually did) the order to Ewell with the decision to make the final assault up to Ewell, who thought the assault on Cemetery Hill was not practical. My bet is that Jackson would have taken it, and thus set the course for a different fight. Lee gave his men a great bit of latitude - sometimes this was good, when you had able commanders under him, but hurt him in such instances when Stuart took off "around the Union army" again, and not doing what cavalry was supposed to do. I know everyone blames Stuart, but IIRC, Lee's orders were sufficiently vague to leave Stuart that freedom. It worked out before, but not this time. I also agree with the previous statement that Lee believed his men to be invincible. Maybe not consciously, but somewhere in his mind, because of what his smaller and not-as-well-equipped army had done in the past. I'm not sure why else you would order Pickett's charge. |
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It is amazing to me that one error compounded upon another caused the confederate army to lose that battle - not superior tactics by the federal army. View Quote You're entering into the world of "what ifs?". Assuming the South hadn't screwed up, who's to say the North wouldn't have "out thunk them?" You've got to play it as it lies, just as in golf or the hand you're dealt just like in cards. Coulda, shoulda, woulda doesn't cut it. |
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Gettysburg may have been the high water mark for Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia, but the high water mark for the Corn-feds was Perryville and Antietam. The former meant the Confederacy would never regain the Midwest and the latter meant no foreign recognition would be forthcoming.
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Gettysburg may have been the high water mark for Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia, but the high water mark for the Corn-feds was Perryville and Antietam. The former meant the Confederacy would never regain the Midwest and the latter meant no foreign recognition would be forthcoming. View Quote That's debatable. Just a couple months after Gettysburg the AoT(Army of Tenessee) beat the living shit out of the Western Federal army at Chickamauga. High tide in the west? I think so, but it didn't mean all that much with the loss of Vicksburg and Gettysburg simultaneously. |
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Quoted: It is amazing to me that one error compounded upon another caused the confederate army to lose that battle - not superior tactics by the federal army. View Quote In reality, the only way the Confederates were going to win at Gettysburg was if Union commander Meade freaked out and ran like Hooker, Burnside, Pope and McClellan did before him. By July 1863 the Union Army was better organized, better equipped and even better trained than the Confederate forces in front of them. At Gettysburg they outnumbered the Confederates by some 15,000 troops and occupied an excellent defensive position against which Lee repeatedly threw his men in a wasted effort to make them fall apart, like they did at Chancellorsville and Second Bull Run. Most of Lee's victories required some cooperation on the part of the Union commanders and troops. At Gettysburg, they refused to cooperate. |
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Quoted: Lee was feeling invincible at that point. There were lots of blunders that could have been avoided had Lee listened to his general staff. Sam Bell Hood pleaded to take his forces around Round Top to flank the Federals' forces. But was commanded to go over rough ground to Devils Den and the ultimate meat grinder. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: snip Lee was feeling invincible at that point. There were lots of blunders that could have been avoided had Lee listened to his general staff. Sam Bell Hood pleaded to take his forces around Round Top to flank the Federals' forces. But was commanded to go over rough ground to Devils Den and the ultimate meat grinder. There were so many examples of blunders made by Lee. This. Aside from Antietam, since taking over as commander of the Army of Northern Virginia Lee had enjoyed a year's worth of decisive victories against Union soldiers and their inept commanders, most of which were a result of his boldness creating doubt and havoc in the Union ranks. In Lee's mind, Meade would react to his attacks no differently than Hooker did. Lee went ahead with Pickett's charge because he believed the Federals were on the brink of collapse, and a strong, bold move up the center would cause them to break and run. |
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You're entering into the world of "what ifs?". Assuming the South hadn't screwed up, who's to say the North wouldn't have "out thunk them?" You've got to play it as it lies, just as in golf or the hand you're dealt just like in cards. Coulda, shoulda, woulda doesn't cut it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It is amazing to me that one error compounded upon another caused the confederate army to lose that battle - not superior tactics by the federal army. You're entering into the world of "what ifs?". Assuming the South hadn't screwed up, who's to say the North wouldn't have "out thunk them?" You've got to play it as it lies, just as in golf or the hand you're dealt just like in cards. Coulda, shoulda, woulda doesn't cut it. I started this thread with the intent of recognizing the day's history and intent to stay away from most of the speculation while sticking to the facts. I don't want another north vs south thread. This will be an ongoing 3 say thread in honor of those who fought, the wounded, and the dead of BOTH sides at a very critical event in our history. |
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Quoted: It was the war of Northern Agression. Get it right you Dumb Billy Yank asshole View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Fuck the Southern aggressors. It was the war of Northern Agression. Get it right you Dumb Billy Yank asshole We aggressively let you shell us at Fort Sumter. |
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We aggressively let you shell us at Fort Sumter. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Fuck the Southern aggressors. It was the war of Northern Agression. Get it right you Dumb Billy Yank asshole We aggressively let you shell us at Fort Sumter. Let us? More like |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Fuck the Southern aggressors. It was the war of Northern Agression. Get it right you Dumb Billy Yank asshole We aggressively let you shell us at Fort Sumter. Let us? More like You won a little, you lost a little. No more owning people and we'll let you have most of the NASCAR races. I think it worked out for the best. |
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You won a little, you lost a little. No more owning people and we'll let you have most of the NASCAR races. I think it worked out for the best. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Fuck the Southern aggressors. It was the war of Northern Agression. Get it right you Dumb Billy Yank asshole We aggressively let you shell us at Fort Sumter. Let us? More like You won a little, you lost a little. No more owning people and we'll let you have most of the NASCAR races. I think it worked out for the best. And you get to keep most of the crazy socialist libtards... DEAL! |
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The Tennessee Brigade left much blood on the field there. There is a nice monument to them there.
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We aggressively let you shell us at Fort Sumter. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Fuck the Southern aggressors. It was the war of Northern Agression. Get it right you Dumb Billy Yank asshole We aggressively let you shell us at Fort Sumter. He's going to need a skin graft for that burn. |
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I need to get back over there. I haven't been since middle school.
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Thank god the south lost i mean think about it.
No such thing as states rights. Out of control federal government. We are so much better off with Washington, D.C. Running shit for everyone. Why should the states have any say about their laws or rules. Ohh I forgot it was fought over slavery, because the great Lincoln cared so much about the poor colored people. Free health care for everyone!!!!!! Free food and booze !!!!! Yay freedom |
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Thank god the south lost i mean think about it. No such thing as states rights. Out of control federal government. We are so much better off with Washington, D.C. Running shit for everyone. Why should the states have any say about their laws or rules. Ohh I forgot it was fought over slavery, because the great Lincoln cared so much about the poor colored people. Free health care for everyone!!!!!! Free food and booze !!!!! Yay freedom View Quote This also |
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Attention, Mississippians! Battalions forward! Dress to the colors and Forward to the foe! Onward, Brave Mississippians! For Glory!"
General Barksdale's Charge at Gettysburg July 2 1863... Barksdale and his men arrived at Gettysburg in the early morning hours of July 2, 1863. On July 2, Lee planned for James Longstreet's Corps to attack up the Emmitsburg Road against the Union left. In a part of the battlefield known as the Peach Orchard, Barksdale's Brigade, which included the 18th, 13th, 17th and 21st Mississippi Infantry regiments, anxiously waited for the order to attack. Particularly anxious was Barksdale, who had made several requests to his superiors to launch his brigade into battle. When the word finally came, Barksdale, with great enthusiasm, ordered his men forward. The Mississippians advanced, as one veteran recalled "yelling at the top of their voices, without firing a shot," and "sped swiftly across the field." A Union colonel who witnessed the charge called it "grandest charge ever made by mortal man." At the head of his troops rode William Barksdale, his sword raised aloft, his hat off and his white hair waving behind him. For a time, Barksdale's men seemed unstoppable. Advancing nearly a mile, the brigade rolled up the Union troops positioned around the Peach Orchard. Smashing though that line, portions of the brigade turned north and wrecked an entire Union division, while others continued straight ahead toward Plum Run. Here, New Yorkers under the command of Col. George Willard (left) counterattacked, and the impetuous Confederate charge finally came to a halt. Barksdale, gallantly leading his troops, was shot from his horse, mortally wounded. When his hard-fighting men finally left the field, they had to leave Barksdale behind, and he fell into the hands of the enemy. Willard, the Union brigade commander, was killed in the fighting. |
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Thank god the south lost i mean think about it. No such thing as states rights. Out of control federal government. We are so much better off with Washington, D.C. Running shit for everyone. Why should the states have any say about their laws or rules. Ohh I forgot it was fought over slavery, because the great Lincoln cared so much about the poor colored people. Free health care for everyone!!!!!! Free food and booze !!!!! Yay freedom View Quote Wait, are you suggesting that the Confederacy was the champion of state and individual rights? |
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151 years ago today the battle to decide the fate of this country was initiated. View Quote Gettysburg was important, but it could not have singularly decided the fate of the country. Despite the persistent belief during the war (and afterwards) that a single battle could have ended everything, four years of fighting bloody engagements pretty well proved that it was virtually impossible for either side to completely destroy the other militarily in a single tactical act. Had Lee somehow won at Gettysburg, there is no reason to believe the Army of the Potomac would have disintegrated, that other Union forces could not have maneuvered to further contest Lee's move through Pennsylvania, or that the Lincoln Administration would have capitulated after a single loss in one portion of the war front. Union forces were performing quite well in Mississippi, Tennessee, Louisiana, Arkansas, and some other parts of the Confederacy at that time. |
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Quoted: And you get to keep most of the crazy socialist libtards... DEAL! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: You won a little, you lost a little. No more owning people and we'll let you have most of the NASCAR races. I think it worked out for the best. And you get to keep most of the crazy socialist libtards... DEAL! Your state has more people on welfare than working. Sounds like you've got your share of government-lovers too. Wasn't that kinda the point of the Civil War, btw? Too much Federal Gubmint? Seems everyone in the south forgot while standing in line for their phony disability claims. |
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Quoted:Wasn't that kinda the point of the Civil War, btw? Too much Federal Gubmint? View Quote No, not really. Southern secessionists did not oppose the size and scope of the federal government in general. They had no problem utilizing national government authority to protect their own interests. The Deep South's problem in 1860 and 1861 was how the Lincoln Administration might use federal authority against their slaveowning interests and the slavery-based society. The Upper South was largely split on the matter, and many seceded after Lincoln called for troops--ultimately deciding to join their sister slaveowning states in creating a new federal government with similar authorities as the previous one. |
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Can we talk about the Battle instead of having all of you dance around screaming about politics like a bunch of kansas city faggots?
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Can we talk about the Battle instead of having all of you dance around screaming about politics like a bunch of kansas city faggots? View Quote Well Said! Day 2, almost 10,000 casualties on both sides. A little respect is due. The Glory of Men not the politics of peons. That picture of Barksdale's charge at the Peach orchard. That barn is still there along with the cannonball hole in the gable. |
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Well Said! Day 2, almost 10,000 casualties on both sides. A little respect is due. The Glory of Men not the politics of peons. View Quote The politics led to the men fighting. They weren't there for fun. They were trying to accomplish something; they were fighting for larger political objectives. |
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The politics led to the men fighting. They weren't there for fun. They were trying to accomplish something; they were fighting for larger political objectives. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Well Said! Day 2, almost 10,000 casualties on both sides. A little respect is due. The Glory of Men not the politics of peons. The politics led to the men fighting. They weren't there for fun. They were trying to accomplish something; they were fighting for larger political objectives. Agreed totally. but these three days I feel are to celebrate the bravery and glory of those men not the reasons that put them there. |
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Valor at its finest...
The men of the 1st Minnesota are most remembered for their actions on July 2, 1863, during the second day's fighting at Gettysburg, where the regiment prevented the Confederates from pushing the Federals off of Cemetery Ridge, a position that was to be crucial in the battle. Maj. Gen. Winfield S. Hancock, commander of the II Corps, ordered the regiment to assault a much larger enemy force (a brigade commanded by Brig. Gen. Cadmus M. Wilcox) telling Col. William Colvill to take the enemy's colors. The fateful charge bought the time needed while other forces were brought up. During the charge, 215 members of the 262 men who were present at the time became casualties in five minutes, including the regimental commander, Col. William Colvill, and all but three of his regimental Captains. The unit's flag fell five times and rose again each time. The 47 survivors rallied back to General Hancock under the senior surviving officer, Captain Nathan S. Messick. The 82 percent casualty rate stands to this day as the largest loss by any surviving military unit in U.S. history during a single day's engagement. |
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Chamberlain FTW. Jeff Daniels has some serious acting chops able to go from Chamberlain to Dumb and Dumber. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It is amazing to me that one error compounded upon another caused the confederate army to lose that battle - not superior tactics by the federal army. Chamberlain FTW. Jeff Daniels has some serious acting chops able to go from Chamberlain to Dumb and Dumber. I'm convinced that the mustache is responsible. |
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Funny how the Union invaded the South to free the slaves there, while they still kept slavery in their states.
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Funny to think of the size of these battles on our own lawns. I don't think any movie or anything has ever done justice to the sheer scale of these engagements. 90 thousand troops versus 70 thousand is insane.
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Funny to think of the size of these battles on our own lawns. I don't think any movie or anything has ever done justice to the sheer scale of these engagements. 90 thousand troops versus 70 thousand is insane. View Quote This. Ive been a reenactor for a few years and have participated in some large scale events, but nothing Ive done is even near half the scale of any actual battle. I don't think most people grasp the immense scale of the battles. |
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