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Posted: 9/5/2017 2:51:31 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 9/5/2017 3:07:26 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Posted: 9/5/2017 3:11:01 AM EDT
[#3]
I can definitely agree with the assertion.
The "Problem" with 5.7 is that is both an expensive round, and fired from an expensive platform. Build a Glock (or Whatever Comparable Cost {P320/M&P,Etc.}) in 5.7 (or 4.6) that hold 17-20+ rounds, and price it at typical Glock prices and it would sell like hotcakes, and ammo prices would fall. I'd definitely have one at under 600 for the launcher. ETA: Specifically a Glock 19 size gun in 5.7 would be the bees knee's I think |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 3:12:45 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another boutique round. But yeah I wouldn't mind having an AR57 upper. |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 7:12:13 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because I've read actual terminal ballistics information. I think 5.7mm is probably a decent SMG/PDW cartridge, when delivered in short FA bursts. Just not something I'd pick for self-defense from a semiauto pistol. That its proponents for SD use generally repeat notions gained from a particularly slanted reading of a terrorist mass murder and try to apply them to a defensive encounter is also off-putting. |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 8:51:25 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Posted: 9/5/2017 8:57:47 AM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 9/5/2017 8:59:10 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn, man! I was just looking for a lighthearted 5.7 discussion but you went all out! I appreciate your info and analysis. |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 9:22:32 AM EDT
[#9]
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Great range toy, especially the SBR PS90. But if it were so wonderful, why are more police, Secret Service & militaries dropping it to move to....9mm?  steel core AP will do everything the 5.7 does, with greater surface area & mass.
I've operated on score of people--nobody ever complained about what they were shot with, they simply bled. That said, the bigger area & weight of a 9mm or larger, well, physics, and shit....nevermind. Arguing calibers is like arguing religion or politics. Don't even pretend it's a rifle round. Five Seven is the only 5.7 handgun. It's expensive. Good ammo, SS198, is expensive, and has only one source; FN. Not to mention, logistics, politics and gun counter BS. The P90 was the main reason to switch to the 5-7, to use the same ammo. PD's found that shorty AR's are better and cheaper, so no more P90's. Velocity and bullet design is king when it comes to terminal ballistics. 5-7 at 2400+ FPS with a bullet that fragments is devastating; an 855A1 type of bullet at less than 27 grains weight would be nasty. Five Seven's big advantage is the ability to have a handgun that reliably pierces soft armor. Capacity, accuracy, effective range and recoil is impressive, but not so much better than 9mm to justify the cost of switching. |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 9:24:06 AM EDT
[#10]
I wouldn't mind it for Coyotes. I agree that a FA SBR could be cool too.
Beyond that no thanks. Some in secret service uses it but there's no testing available to show why. There's no shootings by them to show the performance. The Fort Hood shooting is continuously misrepresented. Show me 5.7 RDS that pass the FBI specs consistently and I'll be interested. |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 10:00:07 AM EDT
[#11]
Hughes amendment really hurt the 5.7
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Posted: 9/5/2017 10:04:01 AM EDT
[#12]
A Phoenix man deaded a shitbag robbing a pharmacy about a month back. He used a five seven, bullet entered his side behind his shoulder and exited the opposite side just in front of his shoulder, leaving a "golf ball sized exit wound" according to a lady who worked the investigation.
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Posted: 9/5/2017 10:07:50 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldn't mind it for Coyotes. I agree that a FA SBR could be cool too. Beyond that no thanks. Some in secret service uses it but there's no testing available to show why. There's no shootings by them to show the performance. The Fort Hood shooting is continuously misrepresented. Show me 5.7 RDS that pass the FBI specs consistently and I'll be interested. |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 10:24:54 AM EDT
[#14]
I had the FN pistol, for a very long time, and then sold it recently. The shooting was good, but finding a decent holster and mag carriers was irritating.
The one time I carried it, IWB, the mag release was "bumped" and the mag slid out about 1/8" and stayed there until I noticed it on a trip to the bathroom. If I had to have used the gun before then, it would have been inoperable without a tap to re-seat the mag...but would I have known that was the problem, in an emergency? I agree what others have said: a 5.7 pistol modeled after Glock would be a no-brainer for me. In the meantime, I still have some ammo left, so maybe a 5.7 AR upper isn't out of the question... |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 11:04:00 AM EDT
[#15]
Fort Hood is really the only case where it's known to have been used and what its effects were. One can argue that humans behave differently when shot while surprised or fleeing I suppose but it provides 45 instances of what at least SS197 does to people. There have not been 45 instances of people being shot with other rounds it seems. There was certainly somebody killed with it on an episode of The First 48 but that hardly means much.
There is the "please stop shooting me" story that still gets passed around but no evidence of the place,time,agency...just a story. Likewise,no proof of its relative effectiveness from Jacksonville but again it's proof the round sucks. It would be nice to have actual information about use of tge round but it was very rare and is very rarely used. There are many reasons to use M4s instead,starting with how many LEOs are prior service and going down the line to them being cheaper and let's face it,cool guy military appeal vs weirdo neither fish nor foul of the FN. Furthermore,there is the issue of departments using select fire weapons and another thing,lots of agencies using federal funding in the GWOT world and plenty of monkey see,monkey do. There really isnt a need for the compactness of the P90 for American cops either,outside of rare instances like in NY nobody is walking around with a slung weapon...but as far as slung weapons go M4s are more impressive looking. For some reason,discussion of the round leads to hysterical screeching where supposedly people are saying that it is the equivalent to any NATO rifle round...except nobody says that. I have no idea how or why it has become more asinine to discuss than Glocks but so it is. Whatever,don't like it...don't shoot it. Fantasy just overtakes reality over gun discussions far too often. |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 11:21:08 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No complaints here. I had a few doubts about the cartridge until I shot a few hogs with it. 20rds and less weight than a G17, I'm in.  |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 12:07:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<snip> For some reason,discussion of the round leads to hysterical screeching where supposedly people are saying that it is the equivalent to any NATO rifle round...except nobody says that. I have no idea how or why it has become more asinine to discuss than Glocks but so it is. Whatever,don't like it...don't shoot it. Fantasy just overtakes reality over gun discussions far too often. Anybody have any sweet AR57 pics? P[S]90s and FiveseveNs are welcome of course! |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 12:16:41 PM EDT
[#18]
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I was hoping to avoid that, but alas, this is GD. Anybody have any sweet AR57 pics? P[S]90s and FiveseveNs are welcome of course! |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 12:23:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@Top_Secret Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was hoping to avoid that, but alas, this is GD. Anybody have any sweet AR57 pics? P[S]90s and FiveseveNs are welcome of course! 
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Posted: 9/5/2017 12:25:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have been summoned!
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/10878/73562.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/10878/73099.JPG 
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Posted: 9/5/2017 12:26:05 PM EDT
[#21]
4.6x30mm>5.7x28mm
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Posted: 9/5/2017 12:29:33 PM EDT
[#22]
 Attached FileThe AR57 really is my favorite.
Edited to use the arfcom image uploaded with my new membership 
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Posted: 9/5/2017 12:37:16 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have been summoned!
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/10878/73562.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/10878/73099.JPG |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 12:39:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
4.6x30mm>5.7x28mm |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 12:42:14 PM EDT
[#25]
I prefer the looks of the older design.
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Posted: 9/5/2017 12:43:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I prefer the looks of the older design. http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/FN-Five-SeveN-1.jpg 
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Posted: 9/5/2017 12:45:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because I've read actual terminal ballistics information. I think 5.7mm is probably a decent SMG/PDW cartridge, when delivered in short FA bursts. Just not something I'd pick for self-defense from a semiauto pistol. That its proponents for SD use generally repeat notions gained from a particularly slanted reading of a terrorist mass murder and try to apply them to a defensive encounter is also off-putting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm not saying he's right, or you're wrong, but he did provide an analysis even if it was a bit subjective. Seems like you may have some preconceived conclusions. Why don't you like 5.7? That its proponents for SD use generally repeat notions gained from a particularly slanted reading of a terrorist mass murder and try to apply them to a defensive encounter is also off-putting. Best place to look for good testing data is when it's been used for hunting purposes. SS198LF out of a handgun fucks up hogs a lot worse than you'd think. |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 12:53:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Hassan attack just proved it's a handgun; people shot COM and left alone for hours bled to death. People shot in extremities survived. Best place to look for good testing data is when it's been used for hunting purposes. SS198LF out of a handgun fucks up hogs a lot worse than you'd think. I shot one with 198lf, entered top of the skull exited the rear ham. The exit was gushing blood, thought I flinched and missed, but it travelled the length of the body somehow. The others were shot with 197 in the ear hole. DRT. 150lb hogs BTW. Got the trap set right now. Should have some more 'data points' soon.
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Posted: 9/5/2017 12:54:53 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 9/5/2017 12:57:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Hassan attack just proved it's a handgun; people shot COM and left alone for hours bled to death. People shot in extremities survived. Best place to look for good testing data is when it's been used for hunting purposes. SS198LF out of a handgun fucks up hogs a lot worse than you'd think. I think we agree?
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Posted: 9/5/2017 1:03:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because I've read actual terminal ballistics information. I think 5.7mm is probably a decent SMG/PDW cartridge, when delivered in short FA bursts. Just not something I'd pick for self-defense from a semiauto pistol. That its proponents for SD use generally repeat notions gained from a particularly slanted reading of a terrorist mass murder and try to apply them to a defensive encounter is also off-putting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm not saying he's right, or you're wrong, but he did provide an analysis even if it was a bit subjective. Seems like you may have some preconceived conclusions. Why don't you like 5.7? That its proponents for SD use generally repeat notions gained from a particularly slanted reading of a terrorist mass murder and try to apply them to a defensive encounter is also off-putting. I have always been a proponent for weapons that can share the same ammo in a pistol/carbine platform so in that field this is a cool little round... |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 1:07:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is how I always looked at the P90 at CQB distance a short burst to COM would be the ticket... but for size and weight I would rather have an M4 even though it is larger and heavier than the P90... That being said I would not feel under gunned in most self defense situations if al I had was a FNFive7/P90 combo I have always been a proponent for weapons that can share the same ammo in a pistol/carbine platform so in that field this is a cool little round...
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Posted: 9/5/2017 1:21:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another boutique round. But yeah I wouldn't mind having an AR57 upper. I bought one some years ago, took it out of the box, felt how heavy it was [wanted to make a lightweight rifle for my SO vs. the AR15] put it back in the box and it's still on the shelf. Now, when I go to that location, I'll look again to see if it's practical to machine some of the weight off it. Maybe turn the barrel. It was really disappointing to see the ancient tech, heavy and seemingly crude, blowback system, similar to our Thompson. This said, our 5-7 pistols are in continuous daily use in the mountains, my SO is getting ready to snap one on and leave the container to go look for more [like she doesn't have a bazillion] 'special' rocks.
We rarely leave the container or barn [if we're not running equipment or other scary things as perceived by lions, bears, etc.] ---5-7's always with us, funny reminds me of the old westerns. My SO carries hers in one of those plastic holsters with the button press release. It doesn't protect her gun well and it's getting pretty banged [no pun intended] up. [A few years ago I bought 2 more spare Second gen or Model 2's or whatever they call the latest 5-7's at a good price, and more recently there were some of the plastic button release holsters available and some of those, [older style fast release holster doesn't fit the new 5-7's] but IIRC they have been discontinued amidst speculation why] I carry mine in a cheap $15 gun show nylon holster with a spare mag pocket in the front. Has held up well over the years. There isn't anything available to us that I know of that is as reliable, flat shooting, with penetration, firepower, number of rounds, LIGHT WEIGHT to tote around all day. There's a thread abt what gun to carry around the farm, etc., our sort of environment, and it's funny to see folks recommending Ruger single actions in .44 or .357, etc. I could but would prolly leave it in the container rather than lug six slow and heavy shots around. Folks are sooo nostalgic... [And impractical, let's see, where did I put that mint 1911 I traded a Chief's Special for decades ago]
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Posted: 9/5/2017 1:33:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Here's how to make a DIY night sight for a 5-7...
https://www.ar15.com/forums/outdoors/Make-EXPEDIENT-TRITIUM-Night-Sights-for-the-Survivalist-for-abt-9/17-686350/ |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 1:33:59 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you're saying I should get a binary trigger for my AR57? That's what I heard. |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 1:40:35 PM EDT
[#36]
Carry rig inspecting bear damage. 41 rounds available of skull piercing goodness.
Most comfortable belts are the COTTON tool belts. Getting hard to find, most in the stores are stiff and hard nylon. eBay has them, but have to shop carefully. In the ~12 years both of us have used them, only one plastic buckle has broken. 
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Posted: 9/5/2017 1:42:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you're saying I should get a binary trigger for my AR57? That's what I heard. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That is how I always looked at the P90 at CQB distance a short burst to COM would be the ticket... but for size and weight I would rather have an M4 even though it is larger and heavier than the P90... That being said I would not feel under gunned in most self defense situations if al I had was a FNFive7/P90 combo I have always been a proponent for weapons that can share the same ammo in a pistol/carbine platform so in that field this is a cool little round...
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Posted: 9/5/2017 1:44:45 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 9/5/2017 1:53:07 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote History |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 1:57:34 PM EDT
[#40]
I'd gladly trade+ my 12" upper for the 6" since I'm planning to suppress the AR57 sometime in the future, but I can't find any for the life of me. Anyone have the inside track somewhere?
I'm not seriously looking right now since I don't have any money, but it would be nice to have a resource. |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 1:59:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd gladly trade+ my 12" upper for the 6" since I'm planning to suppress the AR57 sometime in the future, but I can't find any for the life of me. Anyone have the inside track somewhere? I'm not seriously looking right now since I don't have any money, but it would be nice to have a resource. |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 2:01:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Before dropping binary money, try a S3G/B-GRF trigger. AR57's have a heavy bolt and they shoulder bump super easy. You may need a different buffer to counter bolt bounce issues though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So you're saying I should get a binary trigger for my AR57? That's what I heard. Don't have photos of AR57 or FiveSeven on me right now, but here is a pic of the PS90. 
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Posted: 9/5/2017 2:09:56 PM EDT
[#43]
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Nice! What optic is that? |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 2:19:27 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I pulled my barrel and had a friend cut it down. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'd gladly trade+ my 12" upper for the 6" since I'm planning to suppress the AR57 sometime in the future, but I can't find any for the life of me. Anyone have the inside track somewhere? I'm not seriously looking right now since I don't have any money, but it would be nice to have a resource. My barrel is fluted so I don't think that's an option. 
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Posted: 9/5/2017 2:29:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If people shot in the abdomen had got to a hospital in a timely manner, most would have probably survived. I think we agree? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Hassan attack just proved it's a handgun; people shot COM and left alone for hours bled to death. People shot in extremities survived. Best place to look for good testing data is when it's been used for hunting purposes. SS198LF out of a handgun fucks up hogs a lot worse than you'd think. I think we agree? Most people survive getting shot with a handgun in the US due to the speed and quality of emergency medical care available here. 5.7 is still a handgun round; but it brings new capabilities to the table that 9mm does not have. It's a groundbreaking design, the first of its kind to be mass produced. Proof of concept, really. It is not a rifle, but it mimics a rifle's terminal ballistics, to a lesser degree. Miniature rifle cartridges with insane velocity and better bullet designs are the future of handgun technology. |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 2:33:38 PM EDT
[#46]
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Got any pics? My barrel is fluted so I don't think that's an option. |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 2:51:39 PM EDT
[#47]
My photography sucks. But my taste in firearms is classy
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Posted: 9/5/2017 2:58:35 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
9mm Steel Core WILL NOT penetrate like 5.7x28. Now that Elite Ammunition is offering DevestaTOR to "Joe Public", the penetration is MUCH better than FN SS190 A.P. I hate using this example, but it is documented and not some "Well I heard from the guy at the local gun shop that it won't stop small mice" Keep in mind, neither load used by the dirt bag was in anyway one of the better loads for the 5.7x28.... FORT HOOD SHOOTING... <snip> That's not a valid comparison because all of the victims were shot a point-blank range, which is a sort of best-case scenario. There have been many real-life OISs that show 5.7x28 is a terrible round and many departments have abandoned the caliber. While a full-auto P90 is a decent weapon for some uses, the average guy with a PS90 or FiveSeven isn't going to get that benefit. I really thought that the hype around 5.7x28 had died down, but it looks like I need to pull together all the data from wound ballistics experts again to counter it. |
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Posted: 9/5/2017 3:02:31 PM EDT
[#49]
I hope you reload. It's the only way you will have any ammo for that thing. Coming from someone who shoots mil-surp and antique cowboy ammo.
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Posted: 9/5/2017 3:04:59 PM EDT
[#50]
What mags accept 5.7 rounds? I want a 5.7 AR!
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