You don't see this as possibly calling into question past convictions?

Or just take the evidence and if it comes back as drugs then get an arrest warrant.

I'm not sure why "instantaneous lab test processing for every case" is your proposed solution.

How exactly is a dog manipulating the substance to perform a field test?

Are you saying that field tests were not actually performed as stated in the article?

Nobody needs to do anything to make field tests give false positives.  It's a built in feature.

I wasn't on that jury so I can't comment on the validity of those charges or subsequent convictions.  

But I think it is safe to say if he had no priors, the cops probably would have taken his word that is was just drywall dust - and at the very least, the judge wouldn't have denied him bail while they were waiting on the lab results.  Am I wrong?

I'll go on to say that having family members and close friends in LE as well as watching 100s of COPS episodes, and knowing drug addicts personally - I have learned that people who use or deal drugs are the biggest liars on the planet.  And LE knows it.

But he bitch slapped Rogueboss while simultaneously skull fucking him.............

Yes you are.

Did you read the article I linked where the guy was busted for meth-that turned out to be donut glaze??

Fucking cops didn't take his word for it,just like in other cases.Why would they?

Drug true believers are such believing folks.

Is this thread about drywall dude or donut glaze meth?  I'm speaking specifically about the drywall case.  Am I wrong in assuming the drywall guy would have been let go if he had no priors?

Dog alerted
Test showed false positive
Speedy trial not had

Quit trying to separate something that is relative.  As the saying goes, good enough for government work.

Depends on the cop.

I'm saying the guy with the glaze had no criminal record and was arrested and taken to jail.

Why would the cops take the guy with the drywalls word when they didn't take the word of the donut glaze guy?

I think you are fantasizing if you think the cops would have done the field test (that popped positive),and let the guy go on his word that it was drywall dust.


Donut glaze story:
A 64-year-old Orlando, Fla., man is seeking damages from the city after he was handcuffed, arrested, jailed and strip-searched for possession of a highly addictive substance known to cause temporary euphoria.


ADVERTISEMENT

No, not crystal meth. But it was something that many consider to be just as addictive: the sugary glaze from a Krispy Kreme doughnut.

Daniel Rushing had taken a neighbor to the hospital for a chemotherapy session and was driving an elderly friend home from her job at a 7-Eleven last December when he was pulled over for speeding, according to a report in the Orlando Sentinel.

When Rushing, a retiree who worked in the Orlando parks department for 25 years, opened his wallet to take out his driver’s license, Cpl. Shelby Riggs-Hopkins saw that he had a concealed-weapons permit.

Rushing disclosed to the officer that he was carrying a weapon, and she then asked him to step out of his car. And that’s when she spotted “a rock like substance on the floor board where his feet were.”

"I recognized through my eleven years of training and experience as a law enforcement officer the substance to be some sort of narcotic," the eight-year veteran of the force wrote in Rushing’s arrest report.

Riggs-Hopkins field-tested the substance twice, and both times it came up positive for amphetamines. After she read Rushing his Miranda rights, he “stated that he has never done any drugs in his life and he has no idea now the substance got in his vehicle. Rushing stated that the substance is sugar from a Krispie Kreme Donut that he ate.”

Rushing told the Orlando Sentinel that he had to wait anxiously for six weeks until a report from Florida’s state crime lab confirmed that he’d been telling the truth all along. But he's already spent about 10 hours in jail – he was released on $2,500 bond – for possessing the remains of a doughnut.

"It was incredible," Rushing told the Sentinel. "It feels scary when you haven't done anything wrong and get arrested ... It's just a terrible feeling."

He said he agreed to let Riggs-Hopkins search his car because "I didn't have anything to hide.

"I'll never let anyone search my car again."

The police department did not explain why the doughnut glaze tested positive for amphetamine in both field tests. In a statement, the department said the arrest was a lawful one.

Earlier this month, a New York Times investigation on roadside drug tests found that the testing kits used by Florida officers are far from reliable:

There are no established error rates for the field tests, in part because their accuracy varies so widely depending on who is using them and how. Data from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement lab system show that 21 percent of evidence that the police listed as methamphetamine after identifying it was not methamphetamine, and half of those false positives were not any kind of illegal drug at all.

Rushing has not said how much money he is seeking from the city. His attorney, William Ruffier, told the Sentinel he expects to file a suit against the city in August.

Both situations rely on the dogs sense of smell, no?

Is this a historic moment? No "IT'S LAW AND THE LAW MUST MUST BE UPHELD ".

You're right, this isnt a symptom of a bigger problem.  It's an isolated incident.  How silly of us plebs to forget that.

what are the terms of his probation?  PC to arrest does not mean you are actually guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.  In this case there were multiple mistakes from what I've read.

90 days is well within the majority of the states and Federal rules for a speedy trail.

Drywall dust has very little inherent value. As such it is usually treated with very little regard by the individuals that generate it. You can often find it in their hair, on their clothing or in the back of their truck. It is a reasonable assumption that the case in question involves just such a discover. It is very rare to find someone driving the streets with their hair full of cocaine because of cocaine's inherent value and the subsequent desire by its purveyors and end users to preserve its value. No reasonable person would see residual dust such as this to have evidentiary value.

Further addressing your last statement - If a department advocates lying as a tool for extracting evidence by its officers on the street, would you negate anything the police officers say? This would, after all, make them institutional liars.

Someone's going to be walking funny for a while after that one. 

In many states being arrested and having a judge agree that probable cause exists is enough to revoke probation pending a trail. Probation is used in leu of jail time.

Clarification please:  the failed miserably applies to both explosives and drugs or just drugs?  For someone with your claimed experience I would expect you to have an opinion on what needs to be done to improve the results instead of just saying they all suck.

Those dangerous blue Jolly Ranchers.

They did take the evidence and when it came back as drywall there was no need to get an arrest warrant.  The 90 days in jail happened because of his probation terms.  If the lab test had taken 10 days would you say that was a fair process given the circumstances?  Instantaneous lab testing is the only way I can think of that would have truly prevented any jail time in this case - given the probation curve ball.

I don't disagree that there should be reparations for wrongly accused people. However a simple not guilty would not be worthy of that. Officers and departments cannot help what juries, attorneys, and judges do. I've seen many solid proper arrests and cases found not guilty by a sympathetic jury, a poor showing by a prosecutor, or an unimpressed judge.

I also believe there are already great tools for combating wrongful arrests in federal court that any decent attorney would be ready to jump on due to the huge payouts and notoriety that comes from a successful federal civil suit against a law agency. You're likely to get more from a successful civil suit than from the cookie cutter menu of reparations. You name your price and terms and then double it so you can settle on what you wanted initially.

Terms of his probation?  Probation can be revoked while new charges are being investigated as is the case here, you don't have to wait for conviction on the new charges.

I'm sure the handlers follow the dogs lead in SAR, not so much when going on a fishing expedition.  But you know, that's just like my opinion, man.  It's not like there are countless videos on the internet demonstrating the cops doing just this or anything.

But it ain't a dog performing a field test using a kit bought off the internet

And bags of baking soda. 

Ninety days in jail seems more than fair for someone daring to possess drywall while on probation.



May the heavy boot of the almighty state rest lightly upon your neck... or not.

Quit ignoring the actual chain of events

What would the trial be for - what were the new charges that required a speedy trial?

FIFY

They are both terrible, The explosives dogs get a bit of a pass tho. They do well in training and in a controlled environment. But when used in country (Iraq/Afghanistan) they suck. But in their defense the places have been at war of some sort basically forever and had the shit bombed out of them. There is explosives residue all over the place there so you will get more false positives.

However to your question I bolded, there isn't anything to be done. The dogs that failed have been trained extensively and got frequent exposure to what it is they were trained on finding. The solution has already been mentioned so I am not sure what you're asking. The solution is to stop using them (drug dogs) especially the ROI of these dogs are almost always a net loss, and more and more localities are making evidence that results from a dog hit inadmissible based on the amount of studies of how often they are wrong and the subsequent evidence being "fruit of the poisonous" tree. You are asking me how to make a shit sandwich or shit soup taste better.. its shit.. its always going to taste like shit no matter how much sauce you put on it.  FWIW I have been out of that line of work for many years but highly doubt much has changed since then.

because they made the assumption it is coke



assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups

I am sure the gypsum dealers employer, landlord, and family share the same feelings.

The 90 days in jail happened directly because of the actions of the criminal justice system.  When you remove the dog and field tests that are both known by anyone willing to open their eyes to be horribly unreliable you have a guy that has a white powder loosely in his truck when he's a drywaller.

 And that folks is how you politely tell someone to shut the fuck up. 

So the US Government spends thousands and that makes it legit? They recklessly spend thousands of dollars everyday on worthless things all the time which end up being well below average in quality. A good handler and a quality dog will be right more often than not. And a more specific to this thread a good cop will know who the good handlers are and who aren't. Sometimes you can't prove lack of quality but you can refuse to use it.

For example. I called for a K9 on a stop. The driver was driving erratically, had all the signs of being on methamphetamine, and refused a search of his vehicle. I had enough reasonable suspicion to extend the stop to wait three minutes for the dog. The dog, handled by a local officer, arrived. I watched the dog but not closely. The handler signaled a positive hit. I searched the vehicle and found nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Later I got to thinking about the dogs "hit". I didn't recognize any familiar or common alert signal from the dog. I asked the handlers, roommate/coworker/best friend about it, and he roles his eyes and said the handler used a "change in the dogs demeanor" as a hit. That was the last time I used that handler. A positive hit isn't a "change in demeanor". Had I located a controlled substance during that stop and arrested the guy I would have felt compelled to go to the prosecutor to have the case dropped due to this. Integrity is of the utmost importance to me. That said. The other dog in the county only hits when there's something to hit on. I've never seen him miss in a way that violates rights. I've heard in the past the handler with another dog missed a decent amount of stuff because the dog didn't hit but that's our loss. It the citizen's. The handler and dog team are very good.

I think it probably happens now.

I know a lot of folks involved in the legal system and courts don't think a lot about jail, and the mindless bureaucracy of our legal system.  Hell, they live it day in and day out, it's how they make their living.   The habitual scumbag doesn't care much about it either, they've been through it before, and will be through it again.  Hell, they probably have "friends" they can hang out with in jail, and being arrested isn't exactly going to tarnish their reputation in the hood.  

But if you arrest an innocent person, it isn't (or shouldn't be), "Oh, well, mistakes happen".  

For your average citizen, who's never actually done anything wrong, getting thrown in jail for a mistake has got to be a little traumatizing.  At the very least it'd piss me off to spend 90 days in jail accused of a crime, I didn't commit.   Having to deal with government employees and criminals day in and day out.  It sure as shit wouldn't improve my opinion or foster a feeling of respect, for our legal system, or the government employees and attorneys that run it.

I think getting high, or drunk is bad for you, but I absolutely hate the war on drugs, and all the extra little excuses and opportunities it provides government to do all sorts of despicable activities.

bjohnson is correct.

Rule 1: The system is never wrong.  
Rule 2: If you find yourself in a situation where it appears to be wrong, reference rule 1.

I think you guys are taking what I'm saying the wrong way.  I'm not supporting the authorities for do the wrong thing or breaking the law themselves.  I'm not saying what they did in the drywall dust or doughnut meth cases were right - far from it.  But in BOTH cases, the "victims" put themselves in peril.  The drywall dude by having a criminal history and being on probation; and the doughnut dude by speeding.

All I'm saying is if you don't put yourself in bad situations by doing something stupid or against the law, past or present, then you have a better chance of avoiding crooked cops in the first place.  Am I wrong?

We got a live one boys

It's a stupid argument and a stupid scenario, I shouldn't have to explain to you why they're fundamentally different in origination, intent, immediate outcomes, ability for the officer to readily discern accuracy to a degree etc.

Why don't you sit there and think for awhile the difference between a proven probable cause excuse for a search with no proven crime initiating it and a search for an item after a crime has been committed that the officer can easily determine whether it is or is not perhaps the item he's looking for in the first place.

I don't expect cops to do a bump to determine what that white powder really is, I would expect a handler or CSI tech to tell the difference between a Glock and an airsoft pistol with just a minor cursory inspection.

In before the refund request.

No, it was correct.

Ya, you are. I've worked with and around cops for almost 20 years, and was one myself for 5. I'd bet he would have gone either way. He may have gotten bail, but he still would have been dealing with the same bullshit arrest

probably just report ARFCOM to the BBB for not protecting his ego.