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My son carried a g29 when he wandered around Northern Alaska and carries out when wandering around the Arizona backcountry. I grew up hiking and working in AZ and CA and see absolutely no reason to kill snakes, unless your hungry.. View Quote |
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Its AZ, why aren't you carrying a rifle? The places you're talking about are rifle country anyways. Coyotes carry AK's.
I take my G19 on more "local" hikes. Eventually I'll pick up a G20. |
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Quoted: Snakes aren’t much of an issue. If they become an issue out in the desert it’s usually too late because you stepped on snek. Otherwise they go about their way and most leave them be. The only thing in AZ I worry about when hiking are two-legged critters. The bears, the cats, and anything else with claws pretty much will avoid me long before I see them. The humans, not so much. There are occasional cotton mouths in the bass pond right outside my kitchen door and I fish in there almost every day and never needed a snake gun. If you don't see a snake in time to avoid him and he hits you, what good is a snake gun? If you can move away to avoid being bitten you don't need a snake gun. If you can see the snake in time to avoid him entirely you don't need a snake gun. You don't need a snake gun. |
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Quoted: I can agree with that. I was in Az this past summer visiting the retirees, and stepped on a rattler. I've never jumped so high in my life. It never buzzed. A few years prior to that I killed an aggressive one chasing and striking at my friend. I've also been "herded" or chased by a rattler all this happened in SE Arizona. View Quote |
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Quoted: Definitely determined to be overkill in AZ...whatever you carry, don’t carry a 10mm hiking in AZ. Harold Fish. View Quote |
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AR pistol and a D60 to fight off an angry squadron of Javelinas.
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A common method of hunting mountain lions, where legal, is to tree them with dogs then shoot them with a .22LR handgun. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Running into a mountain lion armed with a small caliber handgun would be cause for concern. But how would he even shoot it with his paws? |
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If it's southern AZ in the mountains especially within 50mi of the border, it better be 5.56 or greater, you may not see them, but it's likely you're being watched. Even then you can get by with a 9mm if it's daytime and you stay away from migrants, peak vantage points or anything that looks suspicious.
Snakes can be a problem, but by the time you can react and shoot you're either already bitten or are able to avoid. I've heard stories of rattlers following people and being aggressive, 9mm should take care of that. Other than that it's wolves, coyotes, bears, bobcats and mountain lions all of which a 9mm should take care of in the proper loading. I've only needed snake-shot when working with horses/mules or dogs and in that case the Judge does work nice. It's legal to hike/work with a rifle so why not a 5.56, or better 6.5 Grendel AR? |
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Quoted: I'm in The Everglades several times every week and have loads of snake and gator pictures but I never had any need for a "snake gun". There are occasional cotton mouths in the bass pond right outside my kitchen door and I fish in there almost every day and never needed a snake gun. If you don't see a snake in time to avoid him and he hits you, what good is a snake gun? If you can move away to avoid being bitten you don't need a snake gun. If you can see the snake in time to avoid him entirely you don't need a snake gun. You don't need a snake gun. View Quote I've never killed a snake out in the wilderness, that's just where they live and do their snake thing. But when they are in the areas where my kids play, they get shot. They seem to love the shade of the trampoline. They also like getting under my porch steps, snuggling up against the house, bugging the dogs, lounging under the cars/trucks. Then they have to go and out comes a regular gun with snake ammo. Assuming they're rattlers, we don't bother the bull snakes, racers, etc. So some of us do rightly kill some snakes. I agree that a gun for snake protection in the wilderness is silly in almost every case. |
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The Kingman AZ PD shot a juvenile black bear (downtown) a few years ago with a 5.56 AR, they ended up killing it with a Chevy Tahoe.
I would of used a Suburban or Yukon XL, but that's just me. |
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Quoted: Running into a mountain lion armed with a small caliber handgun would be cause for concern. View Quote |
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It's AZ, not Syria or bear country Alaska. Just whatever you typically carry will be fine.
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I always felt safe with a Glock 17. I’m sure a 10mm would be just fine.
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Have you ever crossed paths with a mountain lion? Would you be willing to go mano a gato with a mountain lion armed with a small caliber handgun? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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They have mountain lions so, something like a .44. . Mountain lions are thin skinned medium game. Would you be willing to go mano a gato with a mountain lion armed with a small caliber handgun? Big bores are cool for bigger and tougher threats, but I would value speed over power against a 100 pound kitty cat. |
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Well funny how this question and silly answers are brought up when the real killer are Africanized killer bees.
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Quoted: I can agree with that. I was in Az this past summer visiting the retirees, and stepped on a rattler. I've never jumped so high in my life. It never buzzed. A few years prior to that I killed an aggressive one chasing and striking at my friend. I've also been "herded" or chased by a rattler all this happened in SE Arizona. View Quote |
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You really have to not be paying attention to get get bit by rattlesnek. They don't generally engage unless they have to, and the adults will mostly only give humans a dry bite. Juveniles are different. They will rock your world.
Now javelina? Thems are nasty bastages. 44 mag or 10mm will do it. 9mm won't. For the most part if you are in the wild and keep situational awareness you won't have any problems. Illegals, though. Those are a different problem. |
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You really have to not be paying attention to get get bit by rattlesnek. They don't generally engage unless they have to, and the adults will mostly only give humans a dry bite. Juveniles are different. They will rock your world. Now javelina? Thems are nasty bastages. 44 mag or 10mm will do it. 9mm won't. View Quote Thin skinned small game 40-90 pounds. |
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When I'm hiking, I just pocket a Glock 43 with https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=388 (also available in other calibers...but I'm not in grizzly country)
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LOL Thin skinned small game 40-90 pounds. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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You really have to not be paying attention to get get bit by rattlesnek. They don't generally engage unless they have to, and the adults will mostly only give humans a dry bite. Juveniles are different. They will rock your world. Now javelina? Thems are nasty bastages. 44 mag or 10mm will do it. 9mm won't. Thin skinned small game 40-90 pounds. |
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This is the only time a Taurus judge is the answer. Snakes are far the greatest threat, and there are lots of them. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What caliber would one like that will kill any and all animals in AZ? Usually go with 10mm over here, wondering of I even need that in AZ? This is the only time a Taurus judge is the answer. Snakes are far the greatest threat, and there are lots of them. If you see a snake and you have time to draw your gun, then you also have time to just get out off his way and leave him alone. I promise, he isn't going to catch your scent then hunt you down while you are sleeping. |
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Arizona wilderness? The Arizona "Wilderness" is probably 4/5 desert wasteland. There's some high country with water and forested areas, but you won't be running into bears, crocodiles, 30' long snakes and ROUS's. Your biggest threat in Arizona are snakes. Depending on where, I'd personally go with a 357/9mm or 22 pistol, but the chances of you even seeing a black bear or mountain lion, much less a Gila Monster are incredibly low. It's the snake that doesn't rattle that'll get you. View Quote |
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The Hornady factory load with that bullet underperforms compared to the .40 HST View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Quoted: I don't need and don't have a "snake gun" but I do need and have, shot shells for my "regular guns". I've never killed a snake out in the wilderness, that's just where they live and do their snake thing. But when they are in the areas where my kids play, they get shot. They seem to love the shade of the trampoline. They also like getting under my porch steps, snuggling up against the house, bugging the dogs, lounging under the cars/trucks. Then they have to go and out comes a regular gun with snake ammo. Assuming they're rattlers, we don't bother the bull snakes, racers, etc. So some of us do rightly kill some snakes. I agree that a gun for snake protection in the wilderness is silly in almost every case. View Quote |
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Quoted: I'm in The Everglades several times every week and have loads of snake and gator pictures but I never had any need for a "snake gun". There are occasional cotton mouths in the bass pond right outside my kitchen door and I fish in there almost every day and never needed a snake gun. If you don't see a snake in time to avoid him and he hits you, what good is a snake gun? If you can move away to avoid being bitten you don't need a snake gun. If you can see the snake in time to avoid him entirely you don't need a snake gun. You don't need a snake gun. View Quote |
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For self defense against humans the HST loading offers superior expansion, but the XTP is the better hunting bullet. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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.40 S&W; 180 grain Hornady XTP. 180 XTP 19.5” PEN .50” EXP 180 HST 18.4” PEN .723” EXP I’m not sure the XTPs additional 1.1” of penetration is worth the much smaller wound channel |
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I've lived here for 22 years, all of my adult life, and I spend a lot of time outside.
Very rarely will a snake be a problem, and when it is, it is almost always in the spring when they're just getting out and trying to warm themselves in the trail and you can't bypass it. I feel no need to carry snakeshot. With rare exception, our animals aren't that big. Yes, there are bears, including one last year sighted within 2 miles of my house. But they aren't that big by Black Bear standards. Most everything else is easily dealt handled with any service pistol load. Coyotes that are no longer afraid of humans is probably your #1 problem. Javelina, while obnoxious, I've never had an issue with, and the really obnoxious ones are the ones that have migrated into town, where you're less likely to be open carrying a 44 mag anyway. (Yes, it's legal. No, it's not common, at least not anymore, not even in the mountain towns.) The one thing that you are most likely to encounter that is dangerous are coyotes of the human variety. Human Smugglers for the most part, bringing in illegal immigrants. If this happens, you are most likely going to be badly outnumbered... but possibly not outgunned. While drug runners may be well armed, the guys running people are less likely to be. What they might have is a dozen or so desperate people. I've been there, and I firmly believe that the presence of an open-carried 1911 dissuaded them from just taking what they wanted, though the Smugglers clearly wanted the immigrants to do it anyway. It also convinced me that a high-cap 9mm is the way to go. 8 just wasn't going to be enough. I'd rather be a little short on hitting power against the very largest animals here than a little short on ammo against the far more likely smuggler encounter. The farther north you get, the less likely it is that you'll have a problem with smugglers. That said... mine was far closer to Phoenix than it was to the border. ---- As an aside, because it was mentioned above... it took a couple years, and a couple law changes, but Harold Fish got out on appeal. That case was, IMO, Prosecutorial and Judicial Misconduct, and the appeals court agreed. I wouldn't view our laws negatively in that regard... you can convict a lot of people if you don't allow them to present any evidence that favors their innocence and only allow evidence that favors their conviction. The case was sent back for trial and the new prosecutor dropped the case rather than retry it. There are lessons to be learned there, but I wouldn't draw conclusions about our laws from it. |
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Jesus.
Snakes? You pussies need a gun for snakes? Bears? Lions? LOL Wtf. Have you spent any time outdoors? I’d be much, much more worried about people than animals. 9mm is all you need for that. |
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Arizona wilderness? The Arizona "Wilderness" is probably 4/5 desert wasteland. There's some high country with water and forested areas, but you won't be running into bears, crocodiles, 30' long snakes and ROUS's. Your biggest threat in Arizona are snakes. Depending on where, I'd personally go with a 357/9mm or 22 pistol, but the chances of you even seeing a black bear or mountain lion, much less a Gila Monster are incredibly low. It's the snake that doesn't rattle that'll get you. View Quote I have not run into any coyotes, two legged kind, yet, but I haven't been out hunting along the infamous drug corridor, a few miles from my home, and have no reason to "poke the bear". 4 legged coyotes are vermin and I won't hesitate to drop one if I get the chance. I have friends with small farms and animal husbandry who suffer depredations yearly. That and rabbits are about the animals you will see in abundance. If you truly want to learn about the Arizona desert, the best possible place to go is the Arizona Sonoran Desert Museum on Kinney road east of Tucson. Go when it's cool, as it is a large outdoor/indoor setup, and will keep you and yours entertained and informed for hours. Well worth the trip for new comers to our wonderful state. And, as always, for law abiding US citizens, concealed and open carry of any lawful firearm is legal without permit, so if you want to go woods walking on land NOT a national monument, (Saguaro National Monument is a no gun zone), then by all means, enjoy in god health. Please don't leave any trash behind, and come back often. |
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My Glock 27 sees a lot more trail use than my Glock 20.
Semi urban jogging/bike trails that go through freeway underpasses are becoming transient housing complexes. I was deer hunting along the mexican border around the time they captured that photo of the jaguar years back, the tuna can eating smugglers were my only concern. |
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Where do you do the majority of your rock climbing?
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Where do you do the majority of your rock climbing? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Arizona wilderness? The Arizona "Wilderness" is probably 4/5 desert wasteland. There's some high country with water and forested areas, but you won't be running into bears, crocodiles, 30' long snakes and ROUS's. Your biggest threat in Arizona are snakes. Depending on where, I'd personally go with a 357/9mm or 22 pistol, but the chances of you even seeing a black bear or mountain lion, much less a Gila Monster are incredibly low. It's the snake that doesn't rattle that'll get you. View Quote |
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4/5 dessert wasteland? Lol, where do you guys get this shit from? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Arizona wilderness? The Arizona "Wilderness" is probably 4/5 desert wasteland. There's some high country with water and forested areas, but you won't be running into bears, crocodiles, 30' long snakes and ROUS's. Your biggest threat in Arizona are snakes. Depending on where, I'd personally go with a 357/9mm or 22 pistol, but the chances of you even seeing a black bear or mountain lion, much less a Gila Monster are incredibly low. It's the snake that doesn't rattle that'll get you. |
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Right?!? He crammed a lotta fail into one post. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Arizona wilderness? The Arizona "Wilderness" is probably 4/5 desert wasteland. There's some high country with water and forested areas, but you won't be running into bears, crocodiles, 30' long snakes and ROUS's. Your biggest threat in Arizona are snakes. Depending on where, I'd personally go with a 357/9mm or 22 pistol, but the chances of you even seeing a black bear or mountain lion, much less a Gila Monster are incredibly low. It's the snake that doesn't rattle that'll get you. And everything is sharp, even pretty things. (not kidding here) Attached File |
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I'm guessing the majority of the rattlesnakes you see on your climbs are blacktailed rattlesnakes. https://i.pinimg.com/736x/09/ad/68/09ad682d069e5c12ccb80cbed415d809.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Nonsense. If you see a snake and you have time to draw your gun, then you also have time to just get out off his way and leave him alone. https://i.pinimg.com/736x/09/ad/68/09ad682d069e5c12ccb80cbed415d809.jpg Get a couple of hundred feet up, on a vertical face, and it really does come down to the snake or me. |
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