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Before the Covid the flight school by my house had so many Chinese students they bought a hotel to house them. They returned to China with 250 hours an instrument and multi rating and often the next step was putting them in a simulator and then into a big jet. Not the most experienced pilots.
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Quoted:
View Quote I can help here. There are 133 casualties. |
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Would have been terrifying
I’ll be very curious to hear what happened |
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Quoted: Before the Covid the flight school by my house had so many Chinese students they bought a hotel to house them. They returned to China with 250 hours an instrument and multi rating and often the next step was putting them in a simulator and then into a big jet. Not the most experienced pilots. View Quote I used to train those students at the school by you. The initial training for them was at the school here, but they had specialized training when they returned home that was aircraft specific. However, you are correct about them still being low time overall. The problem with the Chinese students wasn't the ability to fly the aircraft, but make decisions that were not in agreence with the captain. Their culture still believes that the captain is God and you do whatever he says. I have piloted enough airliners to know that is not the case. I always tried to help break the cycle with that mindset while they were here training with them, but I fear most fall I to the norms of their home country when they return. |
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Quoted: Anyone can assume if it's union made it's shit. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: In the process of forming your expert opinion on how dangerous the max is, how many hours have you spent flying them? And your aeronautical engineering degree is from where? Anyone can assume if it's union made it's shit. When the max is flown by union pilots they don’t crash. Weird. |
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Quoted: Lawn dart https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/03/21/09/55605617-10634901-image-m-52_1647854945885.jpg View Quote Well, that's about the most terrifying way you could crash, and the most certain way of knowing you are absolutely positively going to die. Makes me wonde if the pilot went suicidal and lawn darted intentionally? Seems like it would take quite a mechanical failure for that to happen. Any word on if they radio'd out that they were havong problems before it went down? |
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Quoted: Video:
View Quote Looks purposeful |
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Quoted: I used to train those students at the school by you. The initial training for them was at the school here, but they had specialized training when they returned home that was aircraft specific. However, you are correct about them still being low time overall. The problem with the Chinese students wasn't the ability to fly the aircraft, but make decisions that were not in agreence with the captain. Their culture still believes that the captain is God and you do whatever he says. I have piloted enough airliners to know that is not the case. I always tried to help break the cycle with that mindset while they were here training with them, but I fear most fall I to the norms of their home country when they return. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Before the Covid the flight school by my house had so many Chinese students they bought a hotel to house them. They returned to China with 250 hours an instrument and multi rating and often the next step was putting them in a simulator and then into a big jet. Not the most experienced pilots. I used to train those students at the school by you. The initial training for them was at the school here, but they had specialized training when they returned home that was aircraft specific. However, you are correct about them still being low time overall. The problem with the Chinese students wasn't the ability to fly the aircraft, but make decisions that were not in agreence with the captain. Their culture still believes that the captain is God and you do whatever he says. I have piloted enough airliners to know that is not the case. I always tried to help break the cycle with that mindset while they were here training with them, but I fear most fall I to the norms of their home country when they return. Very reminiscent of the Aeroflot accident where the pilot allowed his son at the controls. |
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Quoted: Video:
View Quote They aren't even going to find many big chunks. Hope the flight recorders survived and are found. Something important must have fallen off. |
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Quoted: Video:
View Quote Almost seems like someone would have to try to make it stay in a hard dive, but I have no experience with big planes, only gliders. Pilot suicide? |
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Quoted: There's a great documentary about the MAX and the flight control problems it has. The new 737s still use the old airframes. The whole upgrade process was hastily thrown together to compete with airbus. It is a dangerous plane and it always has been. View Quote I'll go out on a limb here, and say that all planes are dangerous. Put pieces of metal together, and fly 100+ people six miles up in a hollow tube -- what could possibly go wrong? Will the TSA allow me to carry-on a parachute? Just in case. |
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Quoted: In the process of forming your expert opinion on how dangerous the max is, how many hours have you spent flying them? And your aeronautical engineering degree is from where? View Quote Probably from the back of a Fruit Loops box. Jimm77. I don’t doubt that the so called “documentary” you saw was well produced and convinced a lot of people that the 737 max is dangerous; but I am willing to bet it was a hit piece designed to garnish as many views as possible. My understanding was the pilots of the 737 max were flying it out of the design curve for the aircraft and the software changes were to prevent pilots form not being able do do so. |
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Quoted: "No word on casualties"? It's a 737 crashing into a mountain. Nobody survives that shit. View Quote Sometimes weird shit happens - there was a crash in the mountains South America where one little girl survived. She was like 12 years old, all alone, and the authorities had no idea where the plane had gone down on its route. I think she ended up walking out of the rainforest herself; quite the story. ETA: From the video, no one is surviving that dive. |
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VIDEO: Boeing 737 passenger jet crashes in southern China mountains | Wake Up America Looks like they lost elevator control. Assuming nothing suicidal was going on. |
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Quoted: There’s a great documentary about the MAX and the flight control problems it has. The new 737s still use the old airframes. The whole upgrade process was hastily thrown together to compete with airbus. It is a dangerous plane and it always has been. View Quote Join date checks out. |
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Quoted: Sometimes weird shit happens - there was a crash in the mountains South America where one little girl survived. She was like 12 years old, all alone, and the authorities had no idea where the plane had gone down on its route. I think she ended up walking out of the rainforest herself; quite the story. ETA: From the video, no one is surviving that dive. View Quote I saw a documentary on that. Scary shit she went through. Came across a river and started following it downstream. Ran across a couple of guys fishing in the river way, way off the beaten path. She was covered in bot fly sores, IIRC. But they got her to a hospital, and she recovered. |
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Quoted: That had to be one hell of a ride down. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Looks like it came straight down from 30,000ft. Damn. That had to be one hell of a ride down. Everyone on board was knocked out / dead from the initial drop from 30k. The fright probably only lasted a few seconds before they were sleeping. |
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The ADS-B data looks like that thing just dropped out of the sky. I'll be interested to hear the cause on this one.
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Quoted: Everyone on board was knocked out / dead from the initial drop from 30k. The fright probably only lasted a few seconds before they were sleeping. View Quote |
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Pilot guys on here: Can something like a 737 do a vertical dive and pull out, are the structurally sound enough to? I know fighters are built differently.
That video is horrible, I feel for the people. |
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Quoted: Everyone on board was knocked out / dead from the initial drop from 30k. The fright probably only lasted a few seconds before they were sleeping. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Looks like it came straight down from 30,000ft. Damn. That had to be one hell of a ride down. Everyone on board was knocked out / dead from the initial drop from 30k. The fright probably only lasted a few seconds before they were sleeping. Why? There would be no reason for people to be unconscious or dead prior to impact unless there was a depressurization. |
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Quoted: If they were lucky. Would require a decompress. Hopefully when the tail (or whatever) departed the aircraft it took the pressure bulkhead with it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Everyone on board was knocked out / dead from the initial drop from 30k. The fright probably only lasted a few seconds before they were sleeping. It really looks like a massive tail failure from something. Whether it was a structural failure, or something like a bomb. No tail visible on the video / screen shot. And the way it dove… just makes sense. |
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Quoted: Why? There would be no reason for people to be unconscious or dead prior to impact unless there was a depressurization. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Looks like it came straight down from 30,000ft. Damn. That had to be one hell of a ride down. Everyone on board was knocked out / dead from the initial drop from 30k. The fright probably only lasted a few seconds before they were sleeping. Why? There would be no reason for people to be unconscious or dead prior to impact unless there was a depressurization. I’m guessing the cabin depressurized as the tail came apart. And then the plane started to break up from the over speed. |
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Quoted: I can't. I get your point. Still doesnt make me want to get on a Boeing plane View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Name the last USA major airliner crash. I can't. I get your point. Still doesnt make me want to get on a Boeing plane Other than the 737MAX, the rest of the Boeing fleet haven't shown any unusual behavior conditions. If you REALLY want to freak out, read the reports on the flight control systems on the Airbus accidents that have happened in the past 25 years. And their flight control design philosophy spans across their entire product spectrum, so they all share similar design constraints/weaknesses. |
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Quoted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCplMzti1PM Looks like they lost elevator control. Assuming nothing suicidal was going on. View Quote Not a pilot, but read Ernest K. Gann's book Fate is the Hunter. Don't recall which plane it was but there was one during his time (propeller) where an IIRC outboard hinge bolt would work out. He had one almost come out, the investigation grounded all the planes and his admittedly amateur report helped solve the problem. Very interesting read. It would put the plane in a dive that he said no one was strong enough to pull the plane out of. |
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Quoted: It really looks like a massive tail failure from something. Whether it was a structural failure, or something like a bomb. No tail visible on the video / screen shot. And the way it dove just makes sense. View Quote You have 6 miles of altitude for gravity and aerodynamics to reach an agreement. We are only seeing the last couple thousand feet. Suicide ( unlikely) bomb (unlikely) or some numb nut 3 weeks ago did or didn't do some maintenance procedure incorrectly, and 3 other unlikely things happened in the right order to cause something important to quit doing its job. The safety record of modern air travel is really impressive when you consider all the potential points of failure |
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Quoted: Well, that's about the most terrifying way you could crash, and the most certain way of knowing you are absolutely positively going to die. Makes me wonde if the pilot went suicidal and lawn darted intentionally? Seems like it would take quite a mechanical failure for that to happen. Any word on if they radio'd out that they were havong problems before it went down? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Well, that's about the most terrifying way you could crash, and the most certain way of knowing you are absolutely positively going to die. Makes me wonde if the pilot went suicidal and lawn darted intentionally? Seems like it would take quite a mechanical failure for that to happen. Any word on if they radio'd out that they were havong problems before it went down? |
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holy smokes, i'd like to know how TF that happens even with a Boeing.
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Quoted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCplMzti1PM Looks like they lost elevator control. Assuming nothing suicidal was going on. View Quote That news guy is an idiot. |
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Quoted: Pilot guys on here: Can something like a 737 do a vertical dive and pull out, are the structurally sound enough to? I know fighters are built differently. That video is horrible, I feel for the people. View Quote In a nutshell, the answer is no. Once the nose goes below 45 or 50° nose low, unless the aircraft is very slow, (unlikely) the aircraft does not have the structural capability to withstand the G’s that would be required for recovery. If the pilot pulled up very gently to avoid over G’ing the aircraft, the airspeed would climb. So it would be a trade-off of how hard you could pull relative to how fast the airplane was going. It is possible, depending on the circumstances, to recover, but you might incur structural damage. The aircraft might possibly still be flyable with that damage. Certainly if you’re going 400 knots straight down there’s no way to recover. |
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Quoted: I flew on it one time. 13 hour flight. I wasn't allowed to use any electronics the entire flight. Chinese nationals had no issues, though. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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The NGs have been out of production for 10+ years now. I suspect the NG generation of the 737 has a few million flight hours under its belt. I wonder what went wrong. And I am working on a 737 product specifically directed at this airline. |
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JFC, some of you guys...
The odds of being in a fatal crash on a 737 are approximately 1 in 10 million for any given flight (give or take, depends on the exact model). That's safer than stepping into your shower. Especially that dark old slippery tub in Mom's basement. |
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Quoted: JFC, some of you guys... The odds of being in a fatal crash on a 737 are approximately 1 in 10 million for any given flight (give or take, depends on the exact model). That's safer than stepping into your shower. Especially that dark old slippery tub in Mom's basement. View Quote ETA: Except the middle seat. |
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