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Link Posted: 8/20/2022 8:04:36 PM EST
[#1]
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Quoted:

If this is about russiagate docs, there is no way he doesn’t have copies of all stored safely in multiple locations.  He’s no idiot.  I happen to believe they have absolutely nothing on him.  After 6 years, they’d have locked him up already if he was even slightly compromised.  I think they’re just trying to create the appearance that he’s done wrong.  If they found anything in that raid, they’d have perp walked him already with a 5am raid to arrest him on live tv with cameras from CNN and MSNBC on site.  He might be the cleanest candidate ever.  
View Quote



If they don’t have anything by this point…. They’re never going to have anything. Well, anything legit that is.
Link Posted: 8/20/2022 8:08:20 PM EST
[#2]
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Quoted:
So anything new? I quit following the thread after it became page after page of derailment by troll.

Only interested in new developments.
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As far as I can tell just the same trolls and a bootlicker trying to argue that what the FIB did was totally cool and that there's nothing wrong with the warrant.

I guess next we just get to argue about the redacted affidavit and how it was redacted in just a way that'll make Trump look as bad as possible without actually telling us what they were supposedly looking for.
Link Posted: 8/20/2022 8:44:24 PM EST
[#3]
Spain bans AC..."You can't make this up" | Dick Morris
Link Posted: 8/20/2022 9:57:17 PM EST
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


From the warrant copied and pasted:

Property to be seized

All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 2071 , or 1519, including the following:

a. Any physical documents with classification markings, along with any containers/boxes (including any other contents) in which such documents are located, as well as any other containers/boxes that are collectively stored or found together with the aforementioned documents and containers/boxes;

Similar wording in another overbroad warrant:



Clothing, but similar overbroad wording:


b. Information, including communications in any form, regarding the retrieval, storage, or transmission of national defense information or classified material;

c. Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2021; or

This would actually cover the passports created during his term of office. they are government documents.

d. Any evidence of the knowing alteration, destruction, or concealment of any government and/or Presidential Records, or of any documents with classification markings.


That is what is to be seized. What is to be searched in order to seize the stuff above:

The premises to be searched, 1100 S Ocean Blvd, Palm Beach, FL 33480, is further described as a resort, club, and residence located near the intersection of Southern Blvd and S Ocean Blvd. It is described as a mansion with approximately 58 bedrooms, 33 bathrooms, on a 17-acre estate. The locations to be searched include the " 45 Office," all storage rooms, and all other rooms or areas within the premises used or available to be used by FPOTUS and his staff and in which boxes or documents could be stored, including all structures or buildings on the estate. It does not include areas currently (i.e., at the time of the search) being occupied, rented, or used by third parties (such as Mar-a-Largo Members) and not otherwise used or available to be used by FPOTUS and his staff, such as private guest suites.

I think you are confusing the places allowed to be searched under the scope of the warrant with what’s allowed to be seized. It doesn’t authorize taking whatever is nearby, because they cannot take anything that doesn’t count as evidence of violating the listed statutes, unless they find something like a pile of unregistered auto sears on the desk next to the documents.
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Quoted:


From the warrant copied and pasted:

Property to be seized

All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 2071 , or 1519, including the following:

a. Any physical documents with classification markings, along with any containers/boxes (including any other contents) in which such documents are located, as well as any other containers/boxes that are collectively stored or found together with the aforementioned documents and containers/boxes;

Similar wording in another overbroad warrant:

United States v. Bridges, 344 F.3d 1010 (9th Cir. 2003)

There was probable cause to search the defendant’s office based on the information in the application that documented his efforts to provide illegal tax advice to various clients, including undercover agents. The search warrant in this case, however, was overly broad. It listed, among the items to be seized, “All records . . . documents . . . computer hardware and software . . .” Though this list was detailed, it was too expansive. There was simply no boundary to what could be seized. In addition, the warrant did not specify the crimes that were the subject of the search (nor did the warrant incorporate the application) so there was no limitation in that manner. Though the application was detailed, the warrant was not. All evidence should have been suppressed. (No discussion of Leon).



Clothing, but similar overbroad wording:
United States v. Fuccillo, 808 F.2d 173 (1st Cir. 1987)

The search warrant in this case authorized the seizure of cartons of women’s clothing, the contents of those cartons, without identifying the contents of the cartons, and control slips identifying the stores intended to receive those cartons. The vice with this warrant was the failure to specify what types of clothing were subject to seizure – that is, what clothing was believed to have been stolen and thus within the parameters of the search warrant affidavit. The Court holds that the warrant was overbroad on its face and that the good faith exception did not apply because the obvious infirmity of the warrant.


b. Information, including communications in any form, regarding the retrieval, storage, or transmission of national defense information or classified material;

c. Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2021; or

This would actually cover the passports created during his term of office. they are government documents.

d. Any evidence of the knowing alteration, destruction, or concealment of any government and/or Presidential Records, or of any documents with classification markings.


That is what is to be seized. What is to be searched in order to seize the stuff above:

The premises to be searched, 1100 S Ocean Blvd, Palm Beach, FL 33480, is further described as a resort, club, and residence located near the intersection of Southern Blvd and S Ocean Blvd. It is described as a mansion with approximately 58 bedrooms, 33 bathrooms, on a 17-acre estate. The locations to be searched include the " 45 Office," all storage rooms, and all other rooms or areas within the premises used or available to be used by FPOTUS and his staff and in which boxes or documents could be stored, including all structures or buildings on the estate. It does not include areas currently (i.e., at the time of the search) being occupied, rented, or used by third parties (such as Mar-a-Largo Members) and not otherwise used or available to be used by FPOTUS and his staff, such as private guest suites.

I think you are confusing the places allowed to be searched under the scope of the warrant with what’s allowed to be seized. It doesn’t authorize taking whatever is nearby, because they cannot take anything that doesn’t count as evidence of violating the listed statutes, unless they find something like a pile of unregistered auto sears on the desk next to the documents.


You get around 500,000 results in a search for overbroad warrants. I'm sure there are many other similar cases.
https://www.google.com/search?q=overbroad+warrants
Link Posted: 8/20/2022 9:59:34 PM EST
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


If you search someone's office you can reasonably expect to find privileged attorney/client communications.
Link Posted: 8/20/2022 10:05:28 PM EST
[#6]
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Quoted:


If you search someone's office you can reasonably expect to find privileged attorney/client communications.
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That’s the point of the search, I’m sure.
Link Posted: 8/20/2022 10:56:09 PM EST
[#7]
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Quoted:
I pretty much bailed on this thread because of the _purse_swingers, but in case anyone missed this..  It is now the third report that backs up my theory (page 68ish) that the DOJ concocted this up as an excuse to get back the Russia-gate documents.  There was also a report that many of the agents being investigated by Durham for their involvement in Russia-gate were involved in the MAL raid.  

Report: FBI was after the Russia-collusion documents.
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I think russiagate evidence is part of it.  The over arching thing now is the lawsuit President Trump filed against all the people who were involved with russiagate, including those who should've known better but kept lying publicly.
The US Gov't on July 14th filed a motion in that case to basically represent 5 people named in the suit: comey, mcabe, strzok, page, and clinesmith.  https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/63184300/224/trump-v-clinton/
The gov says that "claims are based upon conduct within the scope of these former FBI employees’ employment with the government, the United States is the sole and exclusive defendant for those claims."  Even for the court convicted clinesmith who falsified evidence.
The FIB/dept. of injustice/dnc are all going to be very up the creek in this case.  The raid probably has something to do with the RICO suit.  I suspect the swampers know what President Trump knows, but they want to be sure they didn't miss anything.  Maybe they want to make sure he doesn't have the audit logs from the audit Adm Rogers did when he was alerted to the high numbers of non-compliant/illegal queries of the NSA database.  The logs would show who executed the illegal queries, and the identifiers used.  Would it show perkins coie doing these queries?  Or FIBs?
Maybe the evidence showing swampers directing Mifsud and/or Halper to do things that can give them probable cause to get surveillance on the then-candidate Trump and his team.  Or maybe evidence on who leaked the Flynn transcripts?  Lots of juicy stuff that we know is out there, especially the audit logs, as the analysis of those logs ended up in a FISC released document:
https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf
See page 82:
"NSA estimates that approximately eighty-five percent of those queries, representing [redacted] queries conducted by approximately [redacted] targeted offices, were not compliant with the applicable minimization
procedures."

Link Posted: 8/20/2022 11:24:00 PM EST
[#8]
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Quoted:


From the warrant copied and pasted:

Property to be seized

All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 2071 , or 1519, including the following:

a. Any physical documents with classification markings, along with any containers/boxes (including any other contents) in which such documents are located, as well as any other containers/boxes that are collectively stored or found together with the aforementioned documents and containers/boxes;

b. Information, including communications in any form, regarding the retrieval, storage, or transmission of national defense information or classified material;

c. Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2021; or

d. Any evidence of the knowing alteration, destruction, or concealment of any government and/or Presidential Records, or of any documents with classification markings.


That is what is to be seized. What is to be searched in order to seize the stuff above:

The premises to be searched, 1100 S Ocean Blvd, Palm Beach, FL 33480, is further described as a resort, club, and residence located near the intersection of Southern Blvd and S Ocean Blvd. It is described as a mansion with approximately 58 bedrooms, 33 bathrooms, on a 17-acre estate. The locations to be searched include the " 45 Office," all storage rooms, and all other rooms or areas within the premises used or available to be used by FPOTUS and his staff and in which boxes or documents could be stored, including all structures or buildings on the estate. It does not include areas currently (i.e., at the time of the search) being occupied, rented, or used by third parties (such as Mar-a-Largo Members) and not otherwise used or available to be used by FPOTUS and his staff, such as private guest suites.

I think you are confusing the places allowed to be searched under the scope of the warrant with what’s allowed to be seized. It doesn’t authorize taking whatever is nearby, because they cannot take anything that doesn’t count as evidence of violating the listed statutes, unless they find something like a pile of unregistered auto sears on the desk next to the documents.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The wording of the warrant literally states that anything stored or found near boxes containing classified information are part of the warrant.  That is an overly broad definition of what is subject to the warrant.


From the warrant copied and pasted:

Property to be seized

All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 2071 , or 1519, including the following:

a. Any physical documents with classification markings, along with any containers/boxes (including any other contents) in which such documents are located, as well as any other containers/boxes that are collectively stored or found together with the aforementioned documents and containers/boxes;

b. Information, including communications in any form, regarding the retrieval, storage, or transmission of national defense information or classified material;

c. Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2021; or

d. Any evidence of the knowing alteration, destruction, or concealment of any government and/or Presidential Records, or of any documents with classification markings.


That is what is to be seized. What is to be searched in order to seize the stuff above:

The premises to be searched, 1100 S Ocean Blvd, Palm Beach, FL 33480, is further described as a resort, club, and residence located near the intersection of Southern Blvd and S Ocean Blvd. It is described as a mansion with approximately 58 bedrooms, 33 bathrooms, on a 17-acre estate. The locations to be searched include the " 45 Office," all storage rooms, and all other rooms or areas within the premises used or available to be used by FPOTUS and his staff and in which boxes or documents could be stored, including all structures or buildings on the estate. It does not include areas currently (i.e., at the time of the search) being occupied, rented, or used by third parties (such as Mar-a-Largo Members) and not otherwise used or available to be used by FPOTUS and his staff, such as private guest suites.

I think you are confusing the places allowed to be searched under the scope of the warrant with what’s allowed to be seized. It doesn’t authorize taking whatever is nearby, because they cannot take anything that doesn’t count as evidence of violating the listed statutes, unless they find something like a pile of unregistered auto sears on the desk next to the documents.



That is a general writ. It's just lightly disguised with some gossamer thin tissue paper.

It's literally saying ALL physical documents and records ... OR other times. This means they had to search  ... everything there that could possibly BE a record.  It's literally everything that could fall under the three bits of the USC listed. If it was a block in the foundation, take it. Search the entire property. Literally, check every part of it, with the sole exclusion of anywhere not available or used by trump or his staff.  If you live there and his staff sets foot in the room, you can be searched.

They're literally saying go there and read every scrap of paper, all text, all computer records, all media storage, take all records that you can call evidence of alteration, destruction, or concealment of any presidential or classified documents.

It's a complete farce.
Link Posted: 8/20/2022 11:26:04 PM EST
[#9]
DOJ is 10+ days into sifting through boxes. There is nothing, they look like fools and much of the Country is paying attention. Every single morally questionable Democratic from here on out better be shitting themselves whenever there is a potential shift in power.
Link Posted: 8/20/2022 11:26:04 PM EST
[#10]
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Quoted:

That’s the point of the search, I’m sure.
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Quoted:
Quoted:


If you search someone's office you can reasonably expect to find privileged attorney/client communications.

That’s the point of the search, I’m sure.

If what was pasted into the thread is really what the warrant said, in order to execute that "warrant" they would have to read / watch / listen to every single bit of media (in any format) in the entire flipping place. Oh and turn the place upside down and shake it to bits to make sure nothing was hidden that they missed.
Link Posted: 8/20/2022 11:28:00 PM EST
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
DOJ is 10+ days into sifting through boxes. There is nothing, they look like fools and much of the Country is paying attention. Every single morally questionable Democratic from here on out better be shitting themselves whenever there is a potential shift in power.
View Quote

They wouldn't tell anyone what they actually have.

They knew the russiagate docs were false and they participated in laundering those through the fisa courts.

The raid on trump will just provide them cover with their base if they decide to lie again and make more crap up. "But we found it in what we took, and you can't prove otherwise!"
Link Posted: 8/20/2022 11:30:21 PM EST
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Fitton is always spot on.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Fitton spells it out.
Judicial Watch does a lot of good work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQWyEq0Qli4



Fitton is always spot on.


Judicial watch is solid
Link Posted: 8/20/2022 11:42:14 PM EST
[#13]
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Quoted:


Judicial watch is solid
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fitton spells it out.
Judicial Watch does a lot of good work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQWyEq0Qli4



Fitton is always spot on.


Judicial watch is solid

But Top_Secret assured us Judicial Watch is a joke
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 12:55:00 AM EST
[#14]
Trump was right about everything.  This latest attack on him motivated me to get a new sticker.
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 1:10:38 AM EST
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Trump was right about everything.  This latest attack on him motivated me to get a new sticker.
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/61099/300372587_10228125049580587_124473187446-2497024.JPG
View Quote

Link Posted: 8/21/2022 1:15:36 AM EST
[#16]
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Quoted:

As far as I can tell just the same trolls and a bootlicker trying to argue that what the FIB did was totally cool and that there's nothing wrong with the warrant.

View Quote


As far as I can tell it’s the same Q-cult and Trumptards trying to argue that what the FBI did was totally uncool and that there’s nothing Possibly wrong their cult leader could have done.
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 1:17:48 AM EST
[#17]
It doesn’t matter whether he is guilty or innocent. In previous cases where a former politician improperly retained classified information the DOJ stated that no reasonable prosecutor would being charged. It’s settled then.
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 1:34:33 AM EST
[#18]
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 1:59:30 AM EST
[#19]
Trump is clobbering Mitch McConnell tonight on Truth Social. Its just brutal. Really MEAN! Can we get a widget like the twitter one so we can post his "mean truths?"

Link Posted: 8/21/2022 7:09:06 AM EST
[#20]
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Quoted:

They wouldn't tell anyone what they actually have.

They knew the russiagate docs were false and they participated in laundering those through the fisa courts.

The raid on trump will just provide them cover with their base if they decide to lie again and make more crap up. "But we found it in what we took, and you can't prove otherwise!"
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
DOJ is 10+ days into sifting through boxes. There is nothing, they look like fools and much of the Country is paying attention. Every single morally questionable Democratic from here on out better be shitting themselves whenever there is a potential shift in power.

They wouldn't tell anyone what they actually have.

They knew the russiagate docs were false and they participated in laundering those through the fisa courts.

The raid on trump will just provide them cover with their base if they decide to lie again and make more crap up. "But we found it in what we took, and you can't prove otherwise!"


https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/old-case-over-audio-tapes-bill-clintons-sock-drawer-could-impact

Excerpt:
“U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson in Washington D.C. ultimately rejected Judicial Watch's suit by concluding there was no provision in the Presidential Records Act to force the National Archives to seize records from a former president.

But Jackson's ruling — along with the Justice Department's arguments that preceded it — made some other sweeping declarations that have more direct relevance to the FBI's decision to seize handwritten notes and files Trump took with him to Mar-a-Lago. The most relevant is that a president's discretion on what are personal vs. official records is far-reaching and solely his, as is his ability to declassify or destroy records at will.

"Under the statutory scheme established by the PRA, the decision to segregate personal materials from Presidential records is made by the President, during the President's term and in his sole discretion," Jackson wrote in her March 2012 decision, which was never appealed.

"Since the President is completely entrusted with the management and even the disposal of Presidential records during his time in office, it would be difficult for this Court to conclude that Congress intended that he would have less authority to do what he pleases with what he considers to be his personal records," she added.

You can read the full ruling here:

File
memorandum opinion.pdf
The judge noted a president could destroy any record he wanted during his tenure and his only responsibility was to inform the Archives.

As to whether records a president concluded were personal can be forcibly seized after he leaves office, the court concluded it was unreasonable to force NARA to go get the tapes

"Because the audiotapes are not physically in the government's possession, defendant submits that it would be required to seize them directly from President Clinton in order to assume custody and control over them," Jackson noted. "Defendant considers this to be an 'extraordinary request' that is unfounded, contrary to the PRA's express terms, and contrary to traditional principles of administrative law. The Court agrees."

That defendant was the same Justice Department that authorized the raid on Trump's estate. You can read their arguments a decade earlier here:

File
Hearing Transcript.pdf


Jackson also concluded that a decision to challenge a president's decision lies solely with the National Archives and can't be reviewed by a court. If the Archives wants to challenge a decision, that agency and the attorney general can initiate an enforcement mechanism under the law, but it is a civil procedure and has no criminal penalty, she noted.

The search warrant the FBI enforced sought two types of records: classified materials and records created during the Trump presidency. Trump has been adamant the records he took to Mar-a-Lago were both declassified and deemed personal by him.

Some government lawyers reached out privately to Just the News in recent days questioning the use of the FBI to collect presidential records, citing Jackson's ruling and suggesting it was a civil and not criminal matter where deference to Trump is required by law.”
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 7:20:25 AM EST
[#21]
They really stepped in it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 10:16:44 AM EST
[#22]
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Quoted:


No other human being in the existence of earth has been investigated, examined or scrutinized by more organizations or entities than Donald Trump.

If he'd broken some law, regulation or policy, we'd know by now.

Arguing in support of the FBI at this point looks sad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D34-qDhOVys
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Quoted:
Quoted:


As far as I can tell it’s the same Q-cult and Trumptards trying to argue that what the FBI did was totally uncool and that there’s nothing Possibly wrong their cult leader could have done.


No other human being in the existence of earth has been investigated, examined or scrutinized by more organizations or entities than Donald Trump.

If he'd broken some law, regulation or policy, we'd know by now.

Arguing in support of the FBI at this point looks sad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D34-qDhOVys



I heard Michael Knowles put it best, he said to the effect with the knowledge of the occurrences of the last 6 years, if you are still waiting to decide on the matter, you are really bad at deciding things.
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 10:34:14 AM EST
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


As far as I can tell it's the same Q-cult and Trumptards trying to argue that what the FBI did was totally uncool and that there's nothing Possibly wrong their cult leader could have done.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

As far as I can tell just the same trolls and a bootlicker trying to argue that what the FIB did was totally cool and that there's nothing wrong with the warrant.



As far as I can tell it's the same Q-cult and Trumptards trying to argue that what the FBI did was totally uncool and that there's nothing Possibly wrong their cult leader could have done.
I see your B_S and raise you

Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 8/21/2022 10:59:52 AM EST
[#24]
Let's say Trump prevails and proves that the doj and fbi are crooked. What agency will they send to arrest the crooked ones and who will prosecute them?

Aren't the doj and fbi at the top of the ladder when it comes to this kind of stuff?
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 11:01:49 AM EST
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Let's say Trump prevails and proves that the doj and fbi are crooked. What agency will they send to arrest the crooked ones and who will prosecute them?

Aren't the doj and fbi at the top of the ladder when it comes to this kind of stuff?
View Quote

Kyle
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 11:24:47 AM EST
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/old-case-over-audio-tapes-bill-clintons-sock-drawer-could-impact

Excerpt:
“U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson in Washington D.C. ultimately rejected Judicial Watch's suit by concluding there was no provision in the Presidential Records Act to force the National Archives to seize records from a former president.

But Jackson's ruling — along with the Justice Department's arguments that preceded it — made some other sweeping declarations that have more direct relevance to the FBI's decision to seize handwritten notes and files Trump took with him to Mar-a-Lago. The most relevant is that a president's discretion on what are personal vs. official records is far-reaching and solely his, as is his ability to declassify or destroy records at will.

"Under the statutory scheme established by the PRA, the decision to segregate personal materials from Presidential records is made by the President, during the President's term and in his sole discretion," Jackson wrote in her March 2012 decision, which was never appealed.

"Since the President is completely entrusted with the management and even the disposal of Presidential records during his time in office, it would be difficult for this Court to conclude that Congress intended that he would have less authority to do what he pleases with what he considers to be his personal records," she added.

You can read the full ruling here:

File
memorandum opinion.pdf
The judge noted a president could destroy any record he wanted during his tenure and his only responsibility was to inform the Archives.

As to whether records a president concluded were personal can be forcibly seized after he leaves office, the court concluded it was unreasonable to force NARA to go get the tapes

"Because the audiotapes are not physically in the government's possession, defendant submits that it would be required to seize them directly from President Clinton in order to assume custody and control over them," Jackson noted. "Defendant considers this to be an 'extraordinary request' that is unfounded, contrary to the PRA's express terms, and contrary to traditional principles of administrative law. The Court agrees."

That defendant was the same Justice Department that authorized the raid on Trump's estate. You can read their arguments a decade earlier here:

File
Hearing Transcript.pdf


Jackson also concluded that a decision to challenge a president's decision lies solely with the National Archives and can't be reviewed by a court. If the Archives wants to challenge a decision, that agency and the attorney general can initiate an enforcement mechanism under the law, but it is a civil procedure and has no criminal penalty, she noted.

The search warrant the FBI enforced sought two types of records: classified materials and records created during the Trump presidency. Trump has been adamant the records he took to Mar-a-Lago were both declassified and deemed personal by him.

Some government lawyers reached out privately to Just the News in recent days questioning the use of the FBI to collect presidential records, citing Jackson's ruling and suggesting it was a civil and not criminal matter where deference to Trump is required by law.”
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So the FBI is now going against "settled case law"?
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 11:26:44 AM EST
[#27]
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Quoted:
So the FBI is now going against "settled case law"?
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Remember when Roe v. Wade was settled law?
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 11:32:16 AM EST
[#28]
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Quoted:

Remember when Roe v. Wade was settled law?
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It never was.

ETA: In fairness not much is. Law is almost always up for debate.
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 11:36:11 AM EST
[#29]
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Quoted:

Remember when Roe v. Wade was settled law?
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Link Posted: 8/21/2022 11:40:25 AM EST
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

They wouldn't tell anyone what they actually have.

They knew the russiagate docs were false and they participated in laundering those through the fisa courts.

The raid on trump will just provide them cover with their base if they decide to lie again and make more crap up. "But we found it in what we took, and you can't prove otherwise!"
View Quote

Everyone is focused on the search but I would bet that Trump was also wire taped the whole time. Probably while still in office. To do something like this, the FIB/DOJ is fighting for it's existence.

Even if the whole thing collapses, they planted the seeds of talking points for the next 4 years.
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 11:47:59 AM EST
[#31]
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Quoted:

Remember when Roe v. Wade was settled law?
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RVW was never a law - it was a Supreme Court decision that invented a Constitutional right out of thin air.  
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 11:49:26 AM EST
[#32]
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Quoted:
RVW was never a law - it was a Supreme Court decision that invented a Constitutional right out of thin air.  
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Never heard of case law or common law?
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 11:52:05 AM EST
[#33]
It seems more and more this is a case of a fake news story about stuff being flushed down the toilet that the FBI/DOJ used to raid his home.


Link Posted: 8/21/2022 12:01:57 PM EST
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Never heard of case law or common law?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
RVW was never a law - it was a Supreme Court decision that invented a Constitutional right out of thin air.  

Never heard of case law or common law?



Case law is frequently responsible for the most offensive and egregious infringements on liberty.

'precedent' is usually garbage laziness that defaults to the state is always right.  If precedent is ever finally overturned, the government never pays any penalty for being wrong.


Case law is responsible for the legal morass that prevents the Constitution from being the supreme law of the land.   Some dipshit lower court leftist activist judge makes a stupid determination and now we are all bound by it.  Stupid.   Only lawyers could rationalize such a situation.
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 12:55:49 PM EST
[#35]
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Quoted:


No other human being in the existence of earth has been investigated, examined or scrutinized by more organizations or entities than Donald Trump.

If he'd broken some law, regulation or policy, we'd know by now.

Arguing in support of the FBI at this point looks sad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D34-qDhOVys
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


As far as I can tell it’s the same Q-cult and Trumptards trying to argue that what the FBI did was totally uncool and that there’s nothing Possibly wrong their cult leader could have done.


No other human being in the existence of earth has been investigated, examined or scrutinized by more organizations or entities than Donald Trump.

If he'd broken some law, regulation or policy, we'd know by now.

Arguing in support of the FBI at this point looks sad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D34-qDhOVys

This
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 1:36:45 PM EST
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Case law is frequently responsible for the most offensive and egregious infringements on liberty.

'precedent' is usually garbage laziness that defaults to the state is always right.  If precedent is ever finally overturned, the government never pays any penalty for being wrong.


Case law is responsible for the legal morass that prevents the Constitution from being the supreme law of the land.   Some dipshit lower court leftist activist judge makes a stupid determination and now we are all bound by it.  Stupid.   Only lawyers could rationalize such a situation.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
RVW was never a law - it was a Supreme Court decision that invented a Constitutional right out of thin air.  

Never heard of case law or common law?



Case law is frequently responsible for the most offensive and egregious infringements on liberty.

'precedent' is usually garbage laziness that defaults to the state is always right.  If precedent is ever finally overturned, the government never pays any penalty for being wrong.


Case law is responsible for the legal morass that prevents the Constitution from being the supreme law of the land.   Some dipshit lower court leftist activist judge makes a stupid determination and now we are all bound by it.  Stupid.   Only lawyers could rationalize such a situation.

And get paid bigly to argue for it...AND argue against it.

In the next go 'round I'd like to suggest that lawyers be specifically prohibited from holding any legislative office.
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 2:03:16 PM EST
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


No other human being in the existence of earth has been investigated, examined or scrutinized by more organizations or entities than Donald Trump.

If he'd broken some law, regulation or policy, we'd know by now.

Arguing in support of the FBI at this point looks sad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D34-qDhOVys
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


As far as I can tell it’s the same Q-cult and Trumptards trying to argue that what the FBI did was totally uncool and that there’s nothing Possibly wrong their cult leader could have done.


No other human being in the existence of earth has been investigated, examined or scrutinized by more organizations or entities than Donald Trump.

If he'd broken some law, regulation or policy, we'd know by now.

Arguing in support of the FBI at this point looks sad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D34-qDhOVys


Well said. Sadly, TDS is an incurable condition.
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 2:08:06 PM EST
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Well said. Sadly, TDS is an incurable condition.
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I think quite a few will be cured once they start crawling up inside Desantis like they are Trump.
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 3:02:49 PM EST
[#39]
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Quoted:


 It’s too early to say the warrant was applied for in bad faith, or that they lied because we haven’t seen the affidavit, but I am very suspicious and having the AG sign off without notifying POTUS tells me the game of plausible deniability was in play.
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Bull fucking shit it is.


The FBI doesn't get any benefit of the doubt at this point.  Not anymore.


They have shown who and what they are until they establish a decades long track record of doing otherwise.


Link Posted: 8/21/2022 4:03:04 PM EST
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Case law is frequently responsible for the most offensive and egregious infringements on liberty.

'precedent' is usually garbage laziness that defaults to the state is always right.  If precedent is ever finally overturned, the government never pays any penalty for being wrong.


Case law is responsible for the legal morass that prevents the Constitution from being the supreme law of the land.   Some dipshit lower court leftist activist judge makes a stupid determination and now we are all bound by it.  Stupid.   Only lawyers could rationalize such a situation.
View Quote
That's why "lawyer" should be under global billet control.  Bar Associations should not be allowed to grant a new law license until a current lawyer dies.
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 4:33:47 PM EST
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That's why "lawyer" should be under global billet control.  Bar Associations should not be allowed to grant a new law license until a current lawyer dies of strangulation.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:



Case law is frequently responsible for the most offensive and egregious infringements on liberty.

'precedent' is usually garbage laziness that defaults to the state is always right.  If precedent is ever finally overturned, the government never pays any penalty for being wrong.


Case law is responsible for the legal morass that prevents the Constitution from being the supreme law of the land.   Some dipshit lower court leftist activist judge makes a stupid determination and now we are all bound by it.  Stupid.   Only lawyers could rationalize such a situation.
That's why "lawyer" should be under global billet control.  Bar Associations should not be allowed to grant a new law license until a current lawyer dies of strangulation.

Link Posted: 8/21/2022 4:50:09 PM EST
[#42]
Trump blasts 'low ratings dummy' Bill Maher for saying ex-president got a boost in the polls after Mar-a-Lago raid - and goes after Fox News for covering comedian's criticism

Video







More
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 4:55:09 PM EST
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





Bull fucking shit it is.


The FBI doesn't get any benefit of the doubt at this point.  Not anymore.


They have shown who and what they are until they establish a decades long track record of doing otherwise.


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It’s completely reasonable to be inclined to believe this is a bullshit political witch-hunt, based on the FBI’s previous behavior towards Trump.

That’s not mutually exclusive from believing it is within the realm of possibility that the FBI could also produce material which was seized, and completely validate the search.

We just don’t know yet. You can believe one thing while remaining open to the possibility it might turn out to be something else.
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 4:57:10 PM EST
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Remember when Roe v. Wade was settled law?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
So the FBI is now going against "settled case law"?

Remember when Roe v. Wade was settled law?

It’s one thing for lawyers to be against settled case law, another for “cops” to be.
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 5:01:24 PM EST
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


It’s completely reasonable to be inclined to believe this is a bullshit political witch-hunt, based on the FBI’s previous behavior towards Trump.

That’s not mutually exclusive from believing it is within the realm of possibility that the FBI could also produce material which was seized, and completely validate the search.

We just don’t know yet. You can believe one thing while remaining open to the possibility it might turn out to be something else.
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I’m not under any illusions about Trump being the model of a law abiding citizen, but there is no crime they could find evidence of that would justify the search. In the United States when a retired politician improperly retains classified information the government helps them destroy it, gives everyone immunity and then without even searching the government declares that no reasonable prosecutor would charge them with a crime. That’s how this is handled traditionally and a search is a breach of that norm and blatantly partisan.
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 5:04:03 PM EST
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


It’s completely reasonable to be inclined to believe this is a bullshit political witch-hunt, based on the FBI’s previous behavior towards Trump.

That’s not mutually exclusive from believing it is within the realm of possibility that the FBI could also produce material which was seized, and completely validate the search.

We just don’t know yet. You can believe one thing while remaining open to the possibility it might turn out to be something else.
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At this point, having any trust in the KGBI is like believing a convicted child molester, out on parole, would be a good hire for your mall's Santa Clause, and thinking nonsense like:

it is within the realm of possibility that the child molester could also be reformed and no longer a threat to children, and completely validate our decision to let him bounce kids in his lap.

A some point, you have to realized that neither the KGBI, nor child rapists, get any credibility.
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 5:10:25 PM EST
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



At this point, having any trust in the KGBI is like believing a convicted child molester, out on parole, would be a good hire for your mall's Santa Clause, and thinking nonsense like:

it is within the realm of possibility that the child molester could also be reformed and no longer a threat to children, and completely validate our decision to let him bounce kids in his lap.

A some point, you have to realized that neither the KGBI, nor child rapists, get any credibility.
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I’m not giving them credibility. And further, even if Trump did some stuff he shouldn’t have, I still wouldn’t support the warrant or search. I don’t believe former presidents should be politically prosecuted.

It would have to be a grave disregard for national security in his mishandling of specific information to justify this warrant. But however unlikely you or I believe that to be, it’s possible.  We just don’t know yet.
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 5:13:22 PM EST
[#48]
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Quoted:
Let's say Trump prevails and proves that the doj and fbi are crooked. What agency will they send to arrest the crooked ones and who will prosecute them?

Aren't the doj and fbi at the top of the ladder when it comes to this kind of stuff?
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Well maybe they could send those Secret Service agents, etc., that are said to have deleted their phone files.  They must have been in the bag for Trump if they helped facilitate the insurrection and are hiding it from the "committee?" (Note sarcasm here)
Link Posted: 8/21/2022 5:19:03 PM EST
[#49]
Here's what's a crock about the whole "SECRETS!!!" thing.  At worst, Trump had a collection of classified documents that were kept, checks notes, in a compound guarded 24/7 by the Secret Service.  Which I guarantee you is far more secure than the dingy National Records warehouse or wherever they'll cart them off to eventually, guarded at night by some security guard who's belly spills over his belt.

There was no threat they were going to fall in enemy hands - they weren't computer files in some homemade server like the Clinton's, with an expired security certificate.  

It was a victimless crime, of no threat to the country even if true, but when there's a Get Trump department in the KGBI, any violation of any law, or close enough to lie about and get a rubber-stamped warrant, is close enough.

Link Posted: 8/21/2022 5:20:03 PM EST
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


It’s completely reasonable to be inclined to believe this is a bullshit political witch-hunt, based on the FBI’s previous behavior towards Trump.

That’s not mutually exclusive from believing it is within the realm of possibility that the FBI could also produce material which was seized, and completely validate the search.

We just don’t know yet. You can believe one thing while remaining open to the possibility it might turn out to be something else.
View Quote


But which is SIGNIFICANTLY more likely?
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