User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:34:31 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're not the bad guy for pointing it out....you're the bad guy for pointing it out 20 times a day in every thread you can. You'd probably see less of that if GD wouldn't have said "sorry your girl lost" (knowing full well bump stock supporters didn't vote for Hillary) every time Trump was criticized for banning them. I voted for him twice. But we are in this mess partly because of the precedent he set. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:35:40 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryMaj Toure is out there doing God's work |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:35:45 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know this is obvious but there needs to be a HUGE fucking fire mission on here once the comments open on this rule change (if they haven't already). Maybe one of the resident attorneys on here can come up with a template comment for those of us who don't have a way with words. They throw out duplicates. Need to be unique comments. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:36:22 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Section 1, assuming you're over 64oz without the brace, we continue to section 2. There you get 8 points for the SBA3. Section 3 you get 5 points due to MBUS and a standard receiver extension and "LOP". So jail for you it is  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have an SBA3 ON A 5" FM9 with MBUS and Romeo RDS so....  Section 1, assuming you're over 64oz without the brace, we continue to section 2. There you get 8 points for the SBA3. Section 3 you get 5 points due to MBUS and a standard receiver extension and "LOP". So jail for you it is Jail. Jail jail lol  Parks and Rec - funny jail scene |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:38:34 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ~7.5-8" If not mistaken. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What’s the longest Brl that remains under 26” OAL? ~7.5-8" If not mistaken. I think one of the articles got the measurements wrong. I'm "assuming" we measure from the end of the buffer tube (without a folder) to the end of the threads of the barrel (if not P&W'd). That would put it somewhere around 11.5"'s to be safe. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:39:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bet they included flip up sights because of the multitude of pistols coming with MBUS sights. Cheap and light weight, so ATF figured to include them. Kharn Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Too many hoops.... Too arbitrary.... Too late.... I'm curious as to what braces sold today, as is, would actually pass as a brace. I don't think anyone will get rid of their brace (some might take them off), and there will be lawsuits for years....assuming this even goes through. You can still fail on other metrics like weight(both low and high), overall length, magnified optics, front grips and even flip up sights add a point towards failing. I bet they included flip up sights because of the multitude of pistols coming with MBUS sights. Cheap and light weight, so ATF figured to include them. Kharn Their excuse is that the rear peep sight is only usable with your eye up close, so you'd have to shoulder the gun to aim it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:40:33 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think one of the articles got the measurements wrong. I'm "assuming" we measure from the end of the buffer tube (without a folder) to the end of the threads of the barrel (if not P&W'd). That would put it somewhere around 11.5"'s to be safe. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What’s the longest Brl that remains under 26” OAL? ~7.5-8" If not mistaken. I think one of the articles got the measurements wrong. I'm "assuming" we measure from the end of the buffer tube (without a folder) to the end of the threads of the barrel (if not P&W'd). That would put it somewhere around 11.5"'s to be safe. You should assume the absolute worst case because that's how the ATF will measure if they want you to be found with an illegal SBR. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:43:03 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think one of the articles got the measurements wrong. I'm "assuming" we measure from the end of the buffer tube (without a folder) to the end of the threads of the barrel (if not P&W'd). That would put it somewhere around 11.5"'s to be safe. Woah.... my 8" Project Flashbang might actually fall inside the rules. I should fix that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:43:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Their excuse is that the rear peep sight is only usable with your eye up close, so you'd have to shoulder the gun to aim it. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:46:27 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Their excuse is that the rear peep sight is only usable with your eye up close, so you'd have to shoulder the gun to aim it. That is nuts. Easy solution.....I only use a front flip-up sight co-witnessed with a red dot.  I didn't know there was a law that said a rifle or pistol or AOW HAS to have both front and rear sights. More logic fail on the ATF's part. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:48:55 AM EDT
[#11]
Anybody have a build list to get to 87 points?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:49:56 AM EDT
[#12]
LOL that point system.
So what actual brace passes this? Does the new Magpul brace with QD on the end of the brace pass? This will workout about a good the 922 compliance laws. And a lot of folks will just start using real stocks instead... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:51:25 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should assume the absolute worst case because that's how the ATF will measure if they want you to be found with an illegal SBR. This. You might need to take off a flash hider and use a thread protector. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:53:39 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL that point system. So what actual brace passes this? Does the new Magpul brace with QD on the end of the brace pass? This will workout about a good the 922 compliance laws. And a lot of folks will just start using real stocks instead... The proposed rule does hint that a qd swivel at the end of the buffer tube indicates it is intended not to be fired from the shoulder. But the fact it uses a standard buffer tube and is adjustable for length makes it fail. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:55:38 AM EDT
[#15]
how is a sling attachment on AR pistol different than a lanyard on an M1911?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:57:30 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Give the manufacturers a few weeks with these "rules" and let's see how they figure out to get around it. I'll bet they design one with one point. Let's see I'd prefer their efforts and resources go to into forming an industry wide alliance in telling the AFT to GTFO |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:58:16 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not what ex post facto means at all. I'm amazed how many people here don't seem to understand that idea. What it means is that they cannot charge you with a crime after the fact for something you owned legally previously that is now illegal but you no longer own - they can't charge you with complying with the law now but not before the law was a law basically. "After the fact" more or less. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looking at this BS, I’m thinking it can be used against the gayTF in several ways; ADA discrimination, for one. That’d be fun. For two, arbitrary and capricious design, including their little “we can declare anything an SBR at our discretion” shows that its obviously biased to allow them to persecute anyone they want. Finally, by declaring almost anything/everything an SBR/SBS in an ex post facto fashion after approving them for commercial release, (and millions of sales) it falls under the common use clause laid out by the USSC. That's not what ex post facto means at all. I'm amazed how many people here don't seem to understand that idea. What it means is that they cannot charge you with a crime after the fact for something you owned legally previously that is now illegal but you no longer own - they can't charge you with complying with the law now but not before the law was a law basically. "After the fact" more or less. And then there was that domestic violence misdemeanor conviction "thingy" in the late 1990s that permanently disqualified you from ever owning a gun if you ever plead guilty or were convicted of it... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 10:58:52 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The proposed rule does hint that a qd swivel at the end of the buffer tube indicates it is intended not to be fired from the shoulder. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: LOL that point system. So what actual brace passes this? Does the new Magpul brace with QD on the end of the brace pass? This will workout about a good the 922 compliance laws. And a lot of folks will just start using real stocks instead... The proposed rule does hint that a qd swivel at the end of the buffer tube indicates it is intended not to be fired from the shoulder. Yes, but it also states that having a QD slot is something a stock would have. Thus it "could" have a point added under accessory design. Funny, I'm pretty sure my A2 style stock is not adjustable, nor does it have a QD slot. Is it still a stock? More goofy rules to shoot down. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:00:16 AM EDT
[#19]
How about this ?
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-11-5-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-btr-classic-w-carry-handle-ar-15-pistol-black.html |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:02:25 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL that point system. So what actual brace passes this? SB Mini |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:06:02 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: how is a sling attachment on AR pistol different than a lanyard on an M1911? A slot for a sling seems to be fine based on the Shockwave review. But a QD point for a sling makes the gun capable of firing 1000 people seeking bullets per second. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:06:13 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, but it also states that having a QD slot is something a stock would have. Thus it "could" have a point added under accessory design. Funny, I'm pretty sure my A2 style stock is not adjustable, nor does it have a QD slot. Is it still a stock? More goofy rules to shoot down. That's not how it works. If something "could be" used to put you in jail, then it will. If something "could be" used to exonerate you, it won't. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:07:07 AM EDT
[#23]
Folding sights? What if the rear sight is a pistol notch sight? NOT ADDRESSED
What if the brace is NOT against the shoulder (with the fore end resting on the support hand which is not gripping anything) and just against the cheek for three points of contact? (manufacturers may have to use a new design barrel "shroud" and not use rifle hand guards for builds) What if the if the brace is NOT against the shoulder and just against the cheek when using a magnified optic ON A BENCH? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:07:19 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about this ? https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-11-5-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-btr-classic-w-carry-handle-ar-15-pistol-black.html if you pinned the brace at one fixed position then it is good. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:08:39 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. He isn't wrong, but annoying as fuck. He enjoys it too as if everyone here supported the bumpstock ban . |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:09:53 AM EDT
[#26]
Didn't SB Tactical publish a letter from the ATF telling them to stop submitting every variation of the basic brace concept?
The original design was approved and the ATF didn't have time to look at every variation of the "2 flaps and a velcro strap" concept, therefore everything up through SBA3 and SBM4 has been sold in good faith as approved. And the Tailhook Mod1 and Mod2 have approval letters. And the Shockwave has an approval letter - without a strap. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:10:57 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And then there was that domestic violence misdemeanor conviction "thingy" in the late 1990s that permanently disqualified you from ever owning a gun if you ever plead guilty or were convicted of it... It is shit like this that means you fight anything. Yes it will be horrible, existential threats usually are. But that is the only path where there is a chance of not having your life completely destroyed. And in the context of the larger war; even the smallest drain on the enemy's resources helps the next person. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:13:29 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He enjoys it too as if everyone here supported the bumpstock ban . Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This. He isn't wrong, but annoying as fuck. He enjoys it too as if everyone here supported the bumpstock ban . I’ll take ‘de facto support’ for 1000 Alex. Even though the ATF started working on this on trumps watch, I sure am glad that it’s being finalized under Biden’s watch. As a result we have a real chance for the cattle to push back in big numbers on this one. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:16:34 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where are you people shooting that you're concerned about someone checking for stamps? I'm not Richie Rich shooting on my 1000 acres, i go to the ghetto ranges and occasionally the nicer indoor places when it rains. I used to go shoot on public lands when there were public lands in TX to shoot on. Have never had mine, or seen someone else's weapon inspected by LE, or even heard of anyone being asked for their stamp. I've shot with some folks with SBRs and had some take home goodies from work that I've shot at public ranges and never been acosted. Just carry on as you have. If you have a range thats participating in this silliness then call them out here. I’ve had it happen on ranges in Md and Pa. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:16:46 AM EDT
[#30]
Nvm
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:17:18 AM EDT
[#31]
I wonder how this is going to affect braces on the shorty shotguns like the Shockwave, tac 14, tac 13 extra?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:17:50 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Folding sights? What if the rear sight is a pistol notch sight? NOT ADDRESSED What if the brace is NOT against the shoulder (with the fore end resting on the support hand which is not gripping anything) and just against the cheek for three points of contact? (manufacturers may have to use a new design barrel "shroud" and not use rifle hand guards for builds) What if the if the brace is NOT against the shoulder and just against the cheek when using a magnified optic ON A BENCH? What happened to the old “ inadvertent” putting it to the shoulder? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:17:57 AM EDT
[#33]
I'd like to liquidate the genital organs of anyone involved in this with a wire cup on an angle grinder.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:19:57 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder how this is going to affect braces on the shorty shotguns like the Shockwave, tac 14, tac 13 extra? Why wonder? It’s in the document. They were never intended to be fired with one hand. Adding a brace is therefore a method of shouldering them. Making it a SBS |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:21:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about this ? https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-11-5-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-btr-classic-w-carry-handle-ar-15-pistol-black.html Too long. Over 26" and without a 16" or longer barrel and it's a SBR according to the ATF. Seriously. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:26:46 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He enjoys it too as if everyone here supported the bumpstock ban . I could literally write a program that would post the same things as him in every thread. He could be replaced by a robot |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:29:03 AM EDT
[#37]
"Permanently remove or alter the “stabilizing brace” such that it cannot be reattached,..."
This is the "constructive possession" part of the rule that many will gloss over. In other words, if you decide to keep your brace as a paperweight or for collecting purposes, you had better either: a) get rid of all of your AR pistols or b) destroy the brace's ability to be attached to an AR pistol. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:32:23 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I could literally write a program that would post the same things as him in every thread. He could be replaced by a robot Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He enjoys it too as if everyone here supported the bumpstock ban . I could literally write a program that would post the same things as him in every thread. He could be replaced by a robot  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:35:12 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder how this is going to affect braces on the shorty shotguns like the Shockwave, tac 14, tac 13 extra? Already answered. SBS in all cases. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:35:45 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve had it happen on ranges in Md and Pa. Lead Valley in Colorado checks paperwork on everybody. I never went back. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:37:52 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Permanently remove or alter the “stabilizing brace” such that it cannot be reattached,..." This is the "constructive possession" part of the rule that many will gloss over. In other words, if you decide to keep your brace as a paperweight or for collecting purposes, you had better either: a) get rid of all of your AR pistols or b) destroy the brace's ability to be attached to an AR pistol. Which of course makes no sense. ATF if tarded and should feel bad. So if I have a legal braced pistol, but I put folding sights and a 3x magnifier on it, I now have an SBR according to the ATF. The only way for such a weapon to become an SBR is for the brace to magically become a stock. If it can be a stock, why can't I put it on a rifle? ATF is trying to have it both ways. What they proposed fails all tests of logic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:43:28 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which of course makes no sense. ATF if tarded and should feel bad. So if I have a legal braced pistol, but I put folding sights and a 3x magnifier on it, I now have an SBR according to the ATF. The only way for such a weapon to become an SBR is for the brace to magically become a stock. If it can be a stock, why can't I put it on a rifle? ATF is trying to have it both ways. What they proposed fails all tests of logic. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "Permanently remove or alter the “stabilizing brace” such that it cannot be reattached,..." This is the "constructive possession" part of the rule that many will gloss over. In other words, if you decide to keep your brace as a paperweight or for collecting purposes, you had better either: a) get rid of all of your AR pistols or b) destroy the brace's ability to be attached to an AR pistol. Which of course makes no sense. ATF if tarded and should feel bad. So if I have a legal braced pistol, but I put folding sights and a 3x magnifier on it, I now have an SBR according to the ATF. The only way for such a weapon to become an SBR is for the brace to magically become a stock. If it can be a stock, why can't I put it on a rifle? ATF is trying to have it both ways. What they proposed fails all tests of logic. You can place it on a rifle - no problem. The issue is if the brace is an extra accessory just laying around and you also have an AR pistol in your possession. Then they can charge you with intent. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:52:11 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can place it on a rifle - no problem. The issue is if the brace is an extra accessory just laying around and you also have an AR pistol in your possession. Then they can charge you with |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:53:08 AM EDT
[#44]
Did anyone post, just silly range toy, I can kill things at a 1000 yard, just an ATF workaround yet?
But seriously, ATF needs to spend more time at their glory-holes and less time making up silly rules no one can understand. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:53:51 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which of course makes no sense. ATF if tarded and should feel bad. So if I have a legal braced pistol, but I put folding sights and a 3x magnifier on it, I now have an SBR according to the ATF. The only way for such a weapon to become an SBR is for the brace to magically become a stock. If it can be a stock, why can't I put it on a rifle? ATF is trying to have it both ways. What they proposed fails all tests of logic. That's your problem....you're trying to apply logic to an illogical document. The only thing you'll get is a headache and / or a felony 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:54:34 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lead Valley in Colorado checks paperwork on everybody. I never went back. Sounds like they have lead for brains. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:56:06 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's your problem....you're trying to apply logic to an illogical document. The only thing you'll get is a headache and / or a felony The overall picture makes perfect sense: they are trying to write the spirit of the law into the text of the law. The dumpster fire is what happens when you try to do that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:56:42 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ll take ‘de facto support’ for 1000 Alex. Even though the ATF started working on this on trumps watch, I sure am glad that it’s being finalized under Biden’s watch. As a result we have a real chance for the cattle to push back in big numbers on this one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This. He isn't wrong, but annoying as fuck. He enjoys it too as if everyone here supported the bumpstock ban . I’ll take ‘de facto support’ for 1000 Alex. Even though the ATF started working on this on trumps watch, I sure am glad that it’s being finalized under Biden’s watch. As a result we have a real chance for the cattle to push back in big numbers on this one. I can only imagine the mental gymnastics if this was being done under Trump. Nah,who am I kidding,probably be the same as it was under Bumpstocks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:58:09 AM EDT
[#49]
These rules are just absurd.
You get a point if your gun has no sights. If the gun is borderline on points and you take your red dot off to change the battery, did you just construct an SBR by doing so? Clown world. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/8/2021 11:59:58 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He enjoys it too as if everyone here supported the bumpstock ban . Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This. He isn't wrong, but annoying as fuck. He enjoys it too as if everyone here supported the bumpstock ban . Maybe not actually supported it,but many made excuses/justifications/defenses for it. And some of us voiced the concern over that not being the last thing they go after without the need for Congress. And here we are. Well,here you are,since I don't own a Brace or AR pistol and at this point will comment in favor of the new rules. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
