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Posted: 10/5/2021 10:27:04 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Appeals are a thing. IANAL Allowing evidence from one side and not the other opens things up to appeal. Based on the way RBT has "designed" their company and the people it employs, I would guess they are prepared for this sort of thing. You dont go hiring prior ATF Tech branch people because you expect things to be sunshine and roses. True enough. All the same - I'm frustrated with that judge. |
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Posted: 10/6/2021 11:25:07 AM EDT
[#2]
Anybody have an active Pacer account and is willing to purchase the transcript of the 10/4 telephone hearing? I'm happy to Venmo/Paypal the fee if needed (PM me):
https://ecf.flmd.uscourts.gov/doc1/047023539742?caseid=392523 |
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Posted: 10/6/2021 4:14:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Not sure it is worth it. Somehow I doubt much happened in only 22 minutes other than reading the rulings they mentioned and kicking the can down the road so to speak.
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Posted: 10/6/2021 4:21:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Ultimately, this particular case doesn't exactly matter much. This case is a civil case against the ATF where Rare Breed is trying to make them stop, that's why the judge is allowed to make calls on allowing witnesses or not. If this case goes in the ATF's favor, they would still need to prosecute Rare Breed in a criminal trial (a grand jury has been empaneled in Texas) and witnesses such as the former ATF employees who said it isn't a MG would absolutely be able to testify then.
The ATF may not even attempt that if they don't think it's going to be a slam dunk, because a ruling against them could lead to things they don't want. |
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Posted: 10/6/2021 5:12:45 PM EDT
[#5]
From his FB page.
FRT-15 owners group Lawrence DeMonico · 26m · We’re out of court. I’ll post an update shortly! |
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Posted: 10/6/2021 7:00:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From his FB page. FRT-15 owners group Lawrence DeMonico · 26m · We’re out of court. I’ll post an update shortly! Link? Couldn't seem to find group on FB |
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Posted: 10/6/2021 9:06:02 PM EDT
[#7]
RB had triggers for sale on their site today, briefly until sold out... That's nice to see since their regular releases dried up a few weeks ago.
Although at some point, one will start to wonder who's running the site 
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Posted: 10/6/2021 11:01:35 PM EDT
[#8]
Not sure if this link will work but the owners update video is on Rare Breeds Instagram page.
Rare Breed video |
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Posted: 10/6/2021 11:03:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RB had triggers for sale on their site today, briefly until sold out... That's nice to see since their regular releases dried up a few weeks ago. Although at some point, one will start to wonder who's running the site FUCK JOE BIDEN! Guessing it's Nascar fans. 
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Posted: 10/6/2021 11:22:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure if this link will work but the owners update video is on Rare Breeds Instagram page. Rare Breed video Good stuff. He claims triggers will be up on the website every day. They go up early and then sell out fast. I believe from Reddit comments that the crypto payment option has been removed too. |
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Posted: 10/7/2021 6:52:24 AM EDT
[#11]
I am glad triggers are still being sold. I wonder how many are out in the wild now? At a certain point are there just too many to collect if things don’t go the way we want? Are people really calling the judge? Wow
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Posted: 10/7/2021 7:24:53 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At a certain point are there just too many to collect if things don’t go the way we want? Millions of bump stocks were sold. That didn't slow them down from banning them. |
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Posted: 10/7/2021 8:18:18 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Millions of bump stocks were sold. That didn't slow them down from banning them. Right, but no one was getting a knock on the door or a letter in the mail over a bumpstock. I have no clue as to how many FRT's have been sold. I just wonder if there is a limit as to when the ATF simply puts out a general notice (like bumpstocks) because they do not have enough field agents to go door to door. |
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Posted: 10/7/2021 9:25:42 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right, but no one was getting a knock on the door or a letter in the mail over a bumpstock. I have no clue as to how many FRT's have been sold. I just wonder if there is a limit as to when the ATF simply puts out a general notice (like bumpstocks) because they do not have enough field agents to go door to door. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Millions of bump stocks were sold. That didn't slow them down from banning them. Right, but no one was getting a knock on the door or a letter in the mail over a bumpstock. I have no clue as to how many FRT's have been sold. I just wonder if there is a limit as to when the ATF simply puts out a general notice (like bumpstocks) because they do not have enough field agents to go door to door. They don't have to go door to door for any law that gets on the books- time is on their side after that happens. You have to be lucky every time not to get caught, they only have to get lucky once.  |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 3:16:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Update from yesterday.
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CVBNNLaIFzM Direct hotlink it is. I can't get the IG linking thing to work with a video post. |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 3:30:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Update from yesterday. https://www.instagram.com/tv/CVBNNLaIFzM Direct hotlink it is. I can't get the IG linking thing to work with a video post. Not great, no terrible. Execsum: "Court session wasn't a slam dunk, but could have been a lot worse. Lawsuits continue. We are still shipping triggers. We are still suing the people copying our triggers." |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 4:22:31 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not great, no terrible. Execsum: "Court session wasn't a slam dunk, but could have been a lot worse. Lawsuits continue. We are still shipping triggers. We are still suing the people copying our triggers." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Update from yesterday. https://www.instagram.com/tv/CVBNNLaIFzM Direct hotlink it is. I can't get the IG linking thing to work with a video post. Not great, no terrible. Execsum: "Court session wasn't a slam dunk, but could have been a lot worse. Lawsuits continue. We are still shipping triggers. We are still suing the people copying our triggers." Court to Rare Breed: The court will not provide injunctive relief from the ATF. Rare Breed: Don’t care. Can’t stop. Won’t stop. |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 4:26:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Court to Rare Breed: The court will not provide injunctive relief from the ATF. Rare Breed: Don’t care. Can’t stop. Won’t stop. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Update from yesterday. https://www.instagram.com/tv/CVBNNLaIFzM Direct hotlink it is. I can't get the IG linking thing to work with a video post. Not great, no terrible. Execsum: "Court session wasn't a slam dunk, but could have been a lot worse. Lawsuits continue. We are still shipping triggers. We are still suing the people copying our triggers." Court to Rare Breed: The court will not provide injunctive relief from the ATF. Rare Breed: Don’t care. Can’t stop. Won’t stop. Honestly more excited about the possibility of more manufacturers taking this stance than I am about this one single case. Even though I do want a FRT pretty bad. |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 5:06:39 PM EDT
[#19]
The ATF is in a pickle. They can try to prosecute, but it's an obvious loser. In which case they will no longer be able to rewrite laws by redefining common English words. Which if we're being honest is like 90% of what they do at this point. Right now people mostly go along with their BS because they are unwilling/unable to spend the money to see them in criminal court.
They will probably try to apply financial pressure to get the company to submit, but considering it's their flagship (and only?) product, and the community at large willing to donate that's not gonna work. Even if they get congress to pass some amendment to the NFA they won't likely be able to keep their current regulatory procedures (making shit up). |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 5:15:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ATF is in a pickle. They can try to prosecute, but it's an obvious loser. In which case they will no longer be able to rewrite laws by redefining common English words. Which if we're being honest is like 90% of what they do at this point. Right now people mostly go along with their BS because they are unwilling/unable to spend the money to see them in criminal court. They will probably try to apply financial pressure to get the company to submit, but considering it's their flagship (and only?) product, and the community at large willing to donate that's not gonna work. Even if they get congress to pass some amendment to the NFA they won't likely be able to keep their current regulatory procedures (making shit up). Plus, Chevron. ETA: Also, keep in mind that in this case, RV is suing ATF. |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 5:17:07 PM EDT
[#21]
I purchased one of these in 1988, 'The Ultimate', pull back bang, push forward bang, a methodical single function, works really great.
 Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 5:28:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I purchased one of these in 1988, 'The Ultimate', pull back bang, push forward bang, a methodical single function, works really great. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/12582/ultimate_1_jpg-2131288.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/12582/ultimate_jpg-2131289.JPG I looked up the patent on that trigger. It sounds like it functions like a binary trigger.  Attached FileLink to patent. |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 5:38:21 PM EDT
[#23]
This one actually works, vs. other gadgets of that time period.
I lost the 'Certificate of legality' or whatever it was called signed by the ATF head Edward G. Owens of the technical branch. |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 5:46:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Owens...
Owens was the one that signed my letter authorizing me to get a reproduction stock for my Mauser Broomhandle. |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 10:41:58 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I purchased one of these in 1988, 'The Ultimate', pull back bang, push forward bang, a methodical single function, works really great. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/12582/ultimate_1_jpg-2131288.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/12582/ultimate_jpg-2131289.JPG Looks like a fucked up gas pump. But a cool antique nonetheless. 
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Posted: 10/15/2021 10:50:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I purchased one of these in 1988, 'The Ultimate', pull back bang, push forward bang, a methodical single function, works really great. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/12582/ultimate_1_jpg-2131288.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/12582/ultimate_jpg-2131289.JPG Fugly, but curiously printable. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 11:27:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I purchased one of these in 1988, 'The Ultimate', pull back bang, push forward bang, a methodical single function, works really great. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/12582/ultimate_1_jpg-2131288.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/12582/ultimate_jpg-2131289.JPG I have so many questions… |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 11:47:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Am I the only one that wants Lenny Magill to do a retro Hellstorm 2000 esque advertisement video for the FRT trigger?
Have it playing over and over on a little tv at a table in a gun show. Cheap ruskie ammo and sar 1’s, I’d feel like I’m back in 2004. |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 10:59:00 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Am I the only one that wants Lenny Magill to do a retro Hellstorm 2000 esque advertisement video for the FRT trigger? Have it playing over and over on a little tv at a table in a gun show. Cheap ruskie ammo and sar 1’s, I’d feel like I’m back in 2004. I thought there was one with a bunch of blondes with big hair and tits demoing it. All I could find was this:  Hellfire Trigger System |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 11:14:17 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought there was one with a bunch of blondes with big hair and tits demoing it. All I could find was this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7X8vrtluRYYeah that’s the one, I think he did other videos too at some point. WhisperTactical on YouTube posted a video yesterday saying there’s a 4th guy building forced reset triggers and is making one for the AK and Ruger 10/22. |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 12:05:54 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah that’s the one, I think he did other videos too at some point. WhisperTactical on YouTube posted a video yesterday saying there’s a 4th guy building forced reset triggers and is making one for the AK and Ruger 10/22. 
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Posted: 10/18/2021 2:47:56 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah that’s the one, I think he did other videos too at some point. WhisperTactical on YouTube posted a video yesterday saying there’s a 4th guy building forced reset triggers and is making one for the AK and Ruger 10/22. AK FRT? You have my attention...where? |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 2:50:50 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AK FRT? You have my attention...where? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah that’s the one, I think he did other videos too at some point. WhisperTactical on YouTube posted a video yesterday saying there’s a 4th guy building forced reset triggers and is making one for the AK and Ruger 10/22. AK FRT? You have my attention...where? No joke. I'd like to pick up a few of those as well as the 10/22 version. Realistically should RB prevail - and I hope they do - there would eventually be a FRT for all semis. Although nearly totally impractical I'd love one for a Glock. |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 4:44:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought there was one with a bunch of blondes with big hair and tits demoing it. All I could find was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7X8vrtluRYLenny from the Glock Store. |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 10:16:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AK FRT? You have my attention...where? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah that’s the one, I think he did other videos too at some point. WhisperTactical on YouTube posted a video yesterday saying there’s a 4th guy building forced reset triggers and is making one for the AK and Ruger 10/22. AK FRT? You have my attention...where? So my understanding (definitely not fact) is that this guy Thomas Allen Graves originally invented and patented the forced reset trigger. He sold the patent to RB, hence the lawsuits. Graves also designed his own forced reset trigger and apparently sold that design to Alamo triggers called the star fire. It has a roller instead of lever on the top. The star fire is possibly being released by Big Daddy, but is $1000. Who knows because they’re also selling the WOT. Back to Graves, he apparently has functional FRT triggers for the AK and 10/22. Because of the huge variety of AK specs it is still not market ready. Also possibly the patent lawsuits are slowing them. That’s just me guessing. This info is just what I’ve gathered from the YouTube channels focusing on them. I’d love to see an AK model that worked as well as the AR ones. Rare Breed has apparently told some YouTube personalities they’re building an AK model too. Again no confirmation beyond that. |
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Posted: 10/18/2021 11:16:03 PM EDT
[#36]
We don't need an AK model on the eve of the end of Russian ammo, we need an HK model so all these mp5 clones can sing!
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Posted: 10/18/2021 11:54:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So my understanding (definitely not fact) is that this guy Thomas Allen Graves originally invented and patented the forced reset trigger. He sold the patent to RB, hence the lawsuits. Graves also designed his own forced reset trigger and apparently sold that design to Alamo triggers called the star fire. It has a roller instead of lever on the top. The star fire is possibly being released by Big Daddy, but is $1000. Who knows because they’re also selling the WOT. Back to Graves, he apparently has functional FRT triggers for the AK and 10/22. Because of the huge variety of AK specs it is still not market ready. Also possibly the patent lawsuits are slowing them. That’s just me guessing. This info is just what I’ve gathered from the YouTube channels focusing on them. I’d love to see an AK model that worked as well as the AR ones. Rare Breed has apparently told some YouTube personalities they’re building an AK model too. Again no confirmation beyond that. I wonder if something like this could be designed for the FAL, too. I doubt it, but it'd be cool. AK one would be great on an RPK or something. A FRT for the RPD would be sweet, too (not sure how its trigger design differs from an AK). Same for any of the belt-fed or magazine-fed machine guns that have semi-auto versions in existence. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 12:21:59 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We don't need an AK model on the eve of the end of Russian ammo, we need an HK model so all these mp5 clones can sing! Russian ammo isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and MP5 clones still aren't readily available. Bring on the AK FRT! |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 12:44:59 AM EDT
[#39]
A forced reset trigger for the 10/22 would be fun and less issues with tolerances than AK varieties.
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Posted: 10/19/2021 1:05:29 AM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 10/19/2021 1:29:20 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah that’s the one, I think he did other videos too at some point. WhisperTactical on YouTube posted a video yesterday saying there’s a 4th guy building forced reset triggers and is making one for the AK and Ruger 10/22. God I'd kill for one in a 10-22 |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 5:20:42 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder if something like this could be designed for the FAL, too. I doubt it, but it'd be cool. AK one would be great on an RPK or something. A FRT for the RPD would be sweet, too (not sure how its trigger design differs from an AK). Same for any of the belt-fed or magazine-fed machine guns that have semi-auto versions in existence. RPDs are very different, they are striker fired |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 5:47:08 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No returns on them. I would just keep it and live like a free man but you could always sell it on the EE. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I literally just received mine yesterday and it is still in the clamshell. How would I go about returning it? Just mail it back with tracking confirmation? No returns on them. I would just keep it and live like a free man but you could always sell it on the EE.  Attached FileWhat he said |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 5:52:24 AM EDT
[#44]
Some paintball guns have had forced reset triggers for years.
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Posted: 10/19/2021 9:15:28 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: God I'd kill for one in a 10-22 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah that’s the one, I think he did other videos too at some point. WhisperTactical on YouTube posted a video yesterday saying there’s a 4th guy building forced reset triggers and is making one for the AK and Ruger 10/22. God I'd kill for one in a 10-22 Would be a ton of fun in a Scorpion too, assuming you could keep ammo in the mag with such a high rate of fire. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 9:21:26 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russian ammo isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and MP5 clones still aren't readily available. Bring on the AK FRT!
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Posted: 10/19/2021 9:25:58 AM EDT
[#47]
Be in if they weren't $400.
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Posted: 10/19/2021 9:38:07 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: We don't need an AK model on the eve of the end of Russian ammo, we need an HK model so all these mp5 clones can sing! Bring a MP5 version at a price point lower than the Franklin Armory trigger.  Attached FileQuoted: Would be a ton of fun in a Scorpion too, assuming you could keep ammo in the mag with such a high rate of fire. I have the Franklin Armory model in my Scorpion, works great. I’d be willing to upgrade to a forced reset for though. |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 9:41:19 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryThat doesn’t sound too good… |
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Posted: 10/19/2021 10:39:23 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That doesn't sound too good Quote HistoryQuoted: That doesn't sound too good |
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