User Panel
Quoted:
So uh... Mr Trump, about those two remaining openings on the 9th... you wanna go ahead and make some nominations please. View Quote https://www.uscourts.gov/judges-judgeships/judicial-vacancies/current-judicial-vacancies vacancies and nominations listed. he's pedaling as fast as he can |
|
|
Quoted:
From what I gather the way ahead from here is: 1. 9th says the mag restrictions are legal; opening the door to SCOTUS possibly taking it. 2. 9th says the mag restrictions illegal; CA gun owners win bigly Either way it gets interesting. We've wanted another SCOTUS gun case and this would be a big one. Do we know how long it takes 9th to do a case like this? Months? Years? (I really don't know) View Quote RKBA and Equal Protection. Now as it stands if you purchased an item before 1700 you are more equal than someone who did not. I am no mathematician, but there is no way this is unintentional. |
|
|
Quoted:
How in the actual F*&^ is that even enforceable? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What does the stay mean? Technically according to the current stay, if you bought 1 mag in the last week you can buy more past 5pm today. |
|
Quoted: Unless I’m mistaken, he filled them https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-reshapes-9th-circuit-gop-judges-near-majority View Quote FKH! |
|
Quoted:
From what I gather the way ahead from here is: 1. 9th says the mag restrictions are legal; opening the door to SCOTUS possibly taking it. 2. 9th says the mag restrictions illegal; CA gun owners win bigly Either way it gets interesting. We've wanted another SCOTUS gun case and this would be a big one. Do we know how long it takes 9th to do a case like this? Months? Years? (I really don't know) View Quote |
|
|
Judge's order is stayed. Tell me you didn't see that one coming. This is going to go all the way to the Supreme Court. With Roberts I wouldn't be surprised if the 2d takes another screw job.
|
|
Quoted:
@NorCalRT I usually buy from Greg Cote, but he is sold out of most stuff...it looks like Stoeger has some (hopefully he ships to CA) https://benstoegerproshop.com/gun-parts/cz/magazines/ View Quote Doesn't ship, but thank you for looking! I appreciate it! |
|
Quoted:
Judge's order is stayed. Tell me you didn't see that one coming. This is going to go all the way to the Supreme Court. With Roberts I wouldn't be surprised if the 2d takes another screw job. View Quote So now we’re back to illegal “high capacity” magazines in CA? |
|
Not clear to me - can retailers still sell and send mags to guys in Cali?
|
|
Quoted:
I wonder if retailers are going to continue selling mags after 5pm. If the buyer bought at least 1 mag this week than they can lawfully keep buying more unless the 9th issues a more prohibitive stay. View Quote However, if someone thinks the Order says that then I guess we'll be able to see first hand [and I would love to be wrong]. |
|
|
|
|
Quoted: @dcs12345 Doesn't ship, but thank you for looking! I appreciate it! View Quote |
|
Quoted:
Quoted: Unless I’m mistaken, he filled them https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-reshapes-9th-circuit-gop-judges-near-majority FKH! |
|
|
Quoted:
So when are you posting a video of you drilling third holes? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson Degrees, dude... |
|
Quoted:
So when are you posting a video of you drilling third holes? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
|
Quoted: Could someone break down the wording in the stay so a layperson can understand how it comes to this conclusion? View Quote I doubt any legally trained person would try to make that stretch, but I could be wrong. However, I often destroy other lawyers when they try mental gymnastics like that in court. Go down that road at your own risk. |
|
Quoted:
Judge's order is stayed. Tell me you didn't see that one coming. This is going to go all the way to the Supreme Court. With Roberts I wouldn't be surprised if the 2d takes another screw job. View Quote This is my fear, and it's consistent with what's happened before. SCOTUS can sit there and refuse anything they want, allowing ridiculously bad law to stand forever. |
|
Quoted:
You can't. It's mental gymnastics. Some are trying to say because the Order protects "persons" it makes an ongoing protected class. It does not - because as soon as you buy or sell after 5pm (Pacific time) today you are not a person who bought that item before 5pm today- you are a person who bought a different item before 5pm today. I doubt any legally trained person would try to make that stretch, but I could be wrong because I often destroy other lawyers when they try mental gymnastics like that in court. Go down that road at your own risk. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Could someone break down the wording in the stay so a layperson can understand how it comes to this conclusion? I doubt any legally trained person would try to make that stretch, but I could be wrong because I often destroy other lawyers when they try mental gymnastics like that in court. Go down that road at your own risk. IT IS HEREBY FURTHER ORDERED that the permanent injunction enjoining enforcement of California Penal Code § 32310 (a) and (b) shall remain in effect for those persons and business entities who have manufactured, imported, sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds between the entry of this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019 and 5:00 p.m., Friday, April 5, 2019. Dated: April 4, 2019 |
|
Anyone still needing AR mags, used AK mags, or Glock 17 round/31 round mags send me an IM.
|
|
Quoted:
Not clear to me - can retailers still sell and send mags to guys in Cali? View Quote Rather than explain it again I'm just going to say go back in the thread and read Featureless' posts from last night. The stay had a little gift in it for us. |
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Could someone break down the wording in the stay so a layperson can understand how it comes to this conclusion? I doubt any legally trained person would try to make that stretch, but I could be wrong because I often destroy other lawyers when they try mental gymnastics like that in court. Go down that road at your own risk. IT IS HEREBY FURTHER ORDERED that the permanent injunction enjoining enforcement of California Penal Code § 32310 (a) and (b) shall remain in effect for those persons and business entities who have manufactured, imported, sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds between the entry of this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019 and 5:00 p.m., Friday, April 5, 2019. Dated: April 4, 2019 I really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think this stay is carte blanche to continue on past the April 5th deadline. |
|
Quoted: Really hoping Nolo chimes in. Again I’m not an attorney, but the way I understand it is people who manufactured(put together kits), imported/sold(IE people out of state selling mags in from EE), and CA residents who purchased standard capacity mags between 3/29/19 5pm and 4/5/19 at 5pm can keep the magazines during that time. I really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think this stay is carte blanche to continue on past the April 5th deadline. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
Don't make me page Sylvan to tell you how Roberts is going to F* you. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Seeing as how nothing seems to mandate how magazines need to be destroyed and tracked.... Every man, woman, and child in California that has purchased a magazine in the past week has the legal right to continue to order such magazines under this permanent ruling. If those men, women, or children were to accidentally drop those magazines on the ground and others picked them up, oh well. There is also no legal requirement for tracking receipts for purchases, so anyone that is willing to file a use tax for a magazine purchase, regardless of if they retain any form of receipt, is going to be assumed by the state to be such a person. And anyone that can claim to have been gifted a magazine, as so many have been, is under no legal obligation to establish the provenance of said magazine that they received during this brief period of freedom. It would, quite frankly, be impossible to establish, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that any given Californian was not such a person, unless they were already incarcerated or dead during the past week. Undefined is right...people can and should continue to purchase magazines past the Friday "deadline", as the door was opened so wide that it's impossible to close now. However, the possibility exists that the 9th Cir., perhaps many months from now, will order the judge to lift the stay. If the contested statute goes into effect my understanding is that possession of those millions of magazines would be criminalized by the state of CA. Until then, party on. Caetano Hint: Caetano was a per curium decision. I want to offer a Big Thank You to all the good guys who stayed and fought in California. You guys have moved the ball a long way down the field with this action and buying all the magazines. You made the Cali DOJ panic and force the issue. SCOTUS won't be able to ignore, not that I think they would, this case due to how many mags you guys bought the moment the ban was lifted. Thanks again to every guy in Cali who bought a mag. |
|
Quoted: Really hoping Nolo chimes in. Again I’m not an attorney, but the way I understand it is people who manufactured(put together kits), imported/sold(IE people out of state selling mags in from EE), and CA residents who purchased standard capacity mags between 3/29/19 5pm and 4/5/19 at 5pm can keep the magazines during that time. I really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think this stay is carte blanche to continue on past the April 5th deadline. View Quote |
|
Quoted: The stay clearly says sales end at 5pm today, ownership remains legal. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Yes - if they buy before 5pm today they can definately keep them until some further Court Order says different. |
|
Quoted:
So when are you posting a video of you drilling third holes? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson They sell auto sear pin Drill jigs at flea markets in VA. |
|
|
|
|
Quoted:
Really hoping Nolo chimes in. Again I’m not an attorney, but the way I understand it is people who manufactured(put together kits), imported/sold(IE people out of state selling mags in from EE), and CA residents who purchased standard capacity mags between 3/29/19 5pm and 4/5/19 at 5pm can keep the magazines during that time. I really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think this stay is carte blanche to continue on past the April 5th deadline. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Could someone break down the wording in the stay so a layperson can understand how it comes to this conclusion? I doubt any legally trained person would try to make that stretch, but I could be wrong because I often destroy other lawyers when they try mental gymnastics like that in court. Go down that road at your own risk. IT IS HEREBY FURTHER ORDERED that the permanent injunction enjoining enforcement of California Penal Code § 32310 (a) and (b) shall remain in effect for those persons and business entities who have manufactured, imported, sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds between the entry of this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019 and 5:00 p.m., Friday, April 5, 2019. Dated: April 4, 2019 I really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think this stay is carte blanche to continue on past the April 5th deadline. In order to protect those that did any of those things, the protection has to apply to the business or person (not to the merchandise itself). The 5PM cut off is to determine which businesses or persons acted as a result of last weeks ruling and are in need of exemption from this stay. Everyone with me so far? In order not to create instant felons, the judge cast an extra 24 hour window on who is included in a protected class. But what about the tens of thousands of magazines in transit right now? What about the magazines that are being converted / restored right now? There is no registry of magazines. There are no serial numbers on magazines. What about gifted mags? etc. etc. etc. So the judge did the only reasonable thing - he made the protected class those "persons and business entities" who acted this week, and not the merchandise/magazine itself. Think this one over for a moment - the state wants a stay, the judge wants everyone to have freedom. If we have two hypothetical Californians, lets call them Mr. Blackrifle and Mr. Fudd, and one of them (Mr. Blackrifle) bought a case of PMAGs yesterday, he needs to be protected - even if that case isn't delivered until next Tuesday. If two weeks from now he drives to Arizona for a rifle match and brings 20 full capacity magazines with him, if he gets pulled over on his ride home he still needs to be protected. If he comes home with 25 magazines, he still gets to be protected even for the 5 new magazines, as the state is enjoined against enforcement of that law upon him. Now, if Mr. Fudd comes over for dinner and asks "Can I get one of those PMAGs I keep hearing about from you?", Mr. Blackrifle is protected if he gives it over or sells it to Mr. Fudd, but Mr. Fudd is NOT protected for receiving / buying it. Mr. Fudd was not in the protected class established by Benitez, and the protection does not follow the magazine, it applies only to the person or business entity. |
|
Quoted: We can agree to disagree - courts are full of people who think they're both right. I lose cases like every other lawyer (but not very often ). View Quote |
|
Quoted:
Okay, I misunderstood. Thought the stance was if someone bought 1 mag during this time, they could continue buying after. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: The stay clearly says sales end at 5pm today, ownership remains legal. Quoted: Yes - if they buy before 5pm today they can definately keep them until some further Court Order says different. |
|
Calguns is starting to run real slow. Will probably crash later today before the deadline.
|
|
|
|
Quoted:
It HAS TO BE. Let me explain why. In order to protect those that did any of those things, the protection has to apply to the business or person (not to the merchandise itself). The 5PM cut off is to determine which businesses or persons acted as a result of last weeks ruling and are in need of exemption from this stay. Everyone with me so far? In order not to create instant felons, the judge cast an extra 24 hour window on who is included in a protected class. But what about the tens of thousands of magazines in transit right now? What about the magazines that are being converted / restored right now? There is no registry of magazines. There are no serial numbers on magazines. What about gifted mags? etc. etc. etc. So the judge did the only reasonable thing - he made the protected class those "persons and business entities" who acted this week, and not the merchandise/magazine itself. Think this one over for a moment - the state wants a stay, the judge wants everyone to have freedom. If we have two hypothetical Californians, lets call them Mr. Blackrifle and Mr. Fudd, and one of them (Mr. Blackrifle) bought a case of PMAGs yesterday, he needs to be protected - even if that case isn't delivered until next Tuesday. If two weeks from now he drives to Arizona for a rifle match and brings 20 full capacity magazines with him, if he gets pulled over on his ride home he still needs to be protected. If he comes home with 25 magazines, he still gets to be protected even for the 5 new magazines, as the state is enjoined against enforcement of that law upon him. Now, if Mr. Fudd comes over for dinner and asks "Can I get one of those PMAGs I keep hearing about from you?", Mr. Blackrifle is protected if he gives it over or sells it to Mr. Fudd, but Mr. Fudd is NOT protected for receiving / buying it. Mr. Fudd was not in the protected class established by Benitez, and the protection does not follow the magazine, it applies only to the person or business entity. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Could someone break down the wording in the stay so a layperson can understand how it comes to this conclusion? I doubt any legally trained person would try to make that stretch, but I could be wrong because I often destroy other lawyers when they try mental gymnastics like that in court. Go down that road at your own risk. IT IS HEREBY FURTHER ORDERED that the permanent injunction enjoining enforcement of California Penal Code § 32310 (a) and (b) shall remain in effect for those persons and business entities who have manufactured, imported, sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds between the entry of this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019 and 5:00 p.m., Friday, April 5, 2019. Dated: April 4, 2019 I really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think this stay is carte blanche to continue on past the April 5th deadline. In order to protect those that did any of those things, the protection has to apply to the business or person (not to the merchandise itself). The 5PM cut off is to determine which businesses or persons acted as a result of last weeks ruling and are in need of exemption from this stay. Everyone with me so far? In order not to create instant felons, the judge cast an extra 24 hour window on who is included in a protected class. But what about the tens of thousands of magazines in transit right now? What about the magazines that are being converted / restored right now? There is no registry of magazines. There are no serial numbers on magazines. What about gifted mags? etc. etc. etc. So the judge did the only reasonable thing - he made the protected class those "persons and business entities" who acted this week, and not the merchandise/magazine itself. Think this one over for a moment - the state wants a stay, the judge wants everyone to have freedom. If we have two hypothetical Californians, lets call them Mr. Blackrifle and Mr. Fudd, and one of them (Mr. Blackrifle) bought a case of PMAGs yesterday, he needs to be protected - even if that case isn't delivered until next Tuesday. If two weeks from now he drives to Arizona for a rifle match and brings 20 full capacity magazines with him, if he gets pulled over on his ride home he still needs to be protected. If he comes home with 25 magazines, he still gets to be protected even for the 5 new magazines, as the state is enjoined against enforcement of that law upon him. Now, if Mr. Fudd comes over for dinner and asks "Can I get one of those PMAGs I keep hearing about from you?", Mr. Blackrifle is protected if he gives it over or sells it to Mr. Fudd, but Mr. Fudd is NOT protected for receiving / buying it. Mr. Fudd was not in the protected class established by Benitez, and the protection does not follow the magazine, it applies only to the person or business entity. However, I wouldn't want to be the defendant. That said, even though I live here and pay more attention then the average CA gun owner, I have no idea what the penalty for violating the statute on possession (if the decision is overturned) or purchasing after the deadline is. Some say it is an "infraction", you lose said magazine and maybe pay a fine. Others say it is a felony and it comes with mandatory prison time Another I have heard states it is a wobbler (can be charged as a misdemeanor or a felony) and since it it is a gun crime can come with a 10 year state level prohibition on 2A rights (if charged as a misdemeanor). What is it? |
|
Look at it this way, the stay protects anyone who acted on last weeks ruling.
From a practical standpoint, it does protect further orders, manufacturing, etc, but since only those persons or businesses that acted in the past week are covered, and for a transaction to be protected both parties must be in the protected class, it makes it unreasonable for anyone to gift or sell to a Californian unless they had done so already at least once with that same Californian during the one week period. Otherwise how would you know with certainty that the other party is part of the class? It also means that within California you won't be able to sell or gift the newly acquired magazines unless both parties are part of the class. But there is no registry of who is and isn't part of the class... |
|
Quoted: It HAS TO BE. Let me explain why. In order to protect those that did any of those things, the protection has to apply to the business or person (not to the merchandise itself). The 5PM cut off is to determine which businesses or persons acted as a result of last weeks ruling and are in need of exemption from this stay. Everyone with me so far? In order not to create instant felons, the judge cast an extra 24 hour window on who is included in a protected class. But what about the tens of thousands of magazines in transit right now? What about the magazines that are being converted / restored right now? There is no registry of magazines. There are no serial numbers on magazines. What about gifted mags? etc. etc. etc. So the judge did the only reasonable thing - he made the protected class those "persons and business entities" who acted this week, and not the merchandise/magazine itself. Think this one over for a moment - the state wants a stay, the judge wants everyone to have freedom. If we have two hypothetical Californians, lets call them Mr. Blackrifle and Mr. Fudd, and one of them (Mr. Blackrifle) bought a case of PMAGs yesterday, he needs to be protected - even if that case isn't delivered until next Tuesday. If two weeks from now he drives to Arizona for a rifle match and brings 20 full capacity magazines with him, if he gets pulled over on his ride home he still needs to be protected. If he comes home with 25 magazines, he still gets to be protected even for the 5 new magazines, as the state is enjoined against enforcement of that law upon him. Now, if Mr. Fudd comes over for dinner and asks "Can I get one of those PMAGs I keep hearing about from you?", Mr. Blackrifle is protected if he gives it over or sells it to Mr. Fudd, but Mr. Fudd is NOT protected for receiving / buying it. Mr. Fudd was not in the protected class established by Benitez, and the protection does not follow the magazine, it applies only to the person or business entity. View Quote |
|
|
|
Quoted: Now, if Mr. Fudd comes over for dinner and asks "Can I get one of those PMAGs I keep hearing about from you?", Mr. Blackrifle is protected if he gives it over or sells it to Mr. Fudd, but Mr. Fudd is NOT protected for receiving / buying it. Mr. Fudd was not in the protected class established by Benitez, and the protection does not follow the magazine, it applies only to the person or business entity. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
So Pres Trump should have checked with Harris and Swinestein? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Unless I’m mistaken, he filled them https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-reshapes-9th-circuit-gop-judges-near-majority FKH! |
|
So how would anyone know if I got mags after 5 PM?
cat has run off and left bag in dust. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.