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Posted: 7/21/2021 11:16:54 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's all ball bearings nowadays. |
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Posted: 7/21/2021 11:23:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Literally thousands. I just scrapped a 2004 van that we scavenged the wire harness out of to repair one that had the harness butchered past the main computer or ECU (hundreds of IC's ) there was a brake control -ABS module cruise control module, BCM or body control module,transmission and a separate control for the transfer case --traction control to make those work together modules for the fuel injectors, HVAC, wipers, lights and of course the sound system each had a circuit board and each board had a dozen or so chips on it. SO yes that van from 2004 probably had about a thousand chips in it easy. The number has only grown with technology advances. A modern car or truck has so much electronic stuff in it you are better off with a good bi directional scan tool than wrenches to work on them.
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Posted: 7/21/2021 11:39:57 PM EDT
[#3]
They must need a lot. Every dealership around here has half empty lots.
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Posted: 7/21/2021 11:53:38 PM EDT
[#4]
... the dashboard was full of all sorts of esosteric knobs and dials, which I would never understand...
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Posted: 7/21/2021 11:56:56 PM EDT
[#5]
On average there are roughly 3000 microchips that go into the production of a single vehicle
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Posted: 7/21/2021 11:59:46 PM EDT
[#6]
I blame Customers
 , 7 and 8 year car loans  . And finally the manufactures for looking at the CANBUS systems and saying YES to ever idea to implement. I KNOW I KNOW they are not going to give it up. Heck it saves 200 LBS. in wiring alone on a regular family sedan. BUT STILL!!! I have said it before and will say it again. ANY company that makes a 2 door 2 seat Pickup with 2.0L 4 cyl. engine, automatic transmission, and simple air conditioning will sell everyone they make. |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 12:01:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Soooo.......car shortage is going to be a few years?
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Posted: 7/22/2021 12:01:27 AM EDT
[#8]
My square body suburban has about two or three.
 fuck modern cars. |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 12:06:40 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Idk but my location tractor dealer is trying to beg, borrow or steal me a tractor as a loaner or a replacement because the eta on my new machine is unknown. This is 100% Obamas fault for the epa bullshit he passed on diesels. I hope I live to see all of those smug fucks starve to death. My 20 year old tractors are all mechanical. I don’t think there’s a chip to be found on them. They just run too. Those emission rules were supposed to calculate the cost to consumers. I bet they weren’t even close on those numbers |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 12:15:09 AM EDT
[#10]
For you "car has no chips" folks, if you have an alternator, you have semiconductors in the vehicle.
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Posted: 7/22/2021 12:18:38 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For you "car has no chips" folks, if you have an alternator, you have semiconductors in the vehicle. Ha!, 3 brush generator master race 
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Posted: 7/22/2021 12:27:07 AM EDT
[#12]
Folks are conflating CPUs with actual silicon chips. You can have lots of CPUs (compute engines) on a single piece of silicon,
In a car - thousands of CPUs on hundreds of silicon chips, probably. A large proportion of them custom so not 'off the shelf' products. Self-driving cars; many more, think of a server rack with wheels. |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 12:29:54 AM EDT
[#13]
There is a about 1500 on average. More features means more ICs so some luxury cars can be double.
Your throttle, steering, braking, transmission, windows, and door locks use ICs to control switches and motors versus physical linkage now (drive by wire). Add in the infotainment, connectivity, and sensors you need a lot of silicon. There aremillions of lines of code in a highly autonomous vehicle now and it’s growing rapidly. |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 12:41:44 AM EDT
[#14]
My 2021 Buick has about 60 computer modules. Probably untold “chips” in those modules.
It’s the reason I got the 72 month upgraded bumper-to-bumper. Was an extra $2k... but cars are getting too complex and require too much diagnostic tools to easily wrench on yourself anymore. Anything fails in the first 6 years and I drive it in. |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 1:21:27 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am almost ready to go full-on luddite. What benefit do I really get from a car packed with 87 computers vs. something from 20 or even 30 years ago? IDGAF about backup cameras, GPS, keyless start/entry, airbags for my balls, or any of this bullshit. Unless the thing fucking drives itself I am not impressed. All I want is something comfortable and reliable with an adequate amount of power. Guess it's time to buy some good examples of 'analog' cars and become one of those weird old curmudgeons i always laughed at as a kid |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 1:23:07 AM EDT
[#16]
I find this question about chips in cars extremely fishy.
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Posted: 7/22/2021 1:24:01 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: I get that the chips in cars aren't especially profitable for chip makers to produce, so they are scaling back production in favor of much higher margin chips (which are also in short supply). I am curious, though, just how many chips does a modern car actually have? 87 |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 1:30:33 AM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 7/22/2021 1:46:13 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're not shitting me? All those fancy sensors that report everything from tire pressure to memorizing the 18 different seat adjustments to the hundreds/thousands involved in the media/nav/display all use semiconductor chips. IIRC Ford started selling cars without the fancy screens and stuff in the dash just to cut the number of chips and be able to roll out some trucks during this shortage. To make it worse there are only a small group of manufacturers of these chips in the world. Most are in SE Asia like Taiwan and China and now that China wants to threaten Taiwan, that just adds more to the shortage on top of the massive supply chain shortages happening right now. It’s a giant cluster right now… ETA: most of the sensors will have smaller ICs and memory modules that aren’t full blown processors. But the gadgets will all be very processor heavy as they’re practically computers now days with Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, cellular, etc. |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 1:56:13 AM EDT
[#20]
Toyota Global told us back in November/December that US averse across their fleet was around 1400 across 150 chip sets or some such.
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Posted: 7/22/2021 1:57:26 AM EDT
[#21]
Hey op, have you ever seen the inside of a pc? You know how there’s like one main board with 8700 “chips” On it; then other boards with other chips on them attached to the bigger board and all of those chips just so you can look at porn?
It’s like that, but smaller and covered in aluminum boxes and there’s like 87 of them attached to every major component in your car. The biggest difference is the porn comes via 5G antenna module and shuts off when the D lights up.
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Posted: 7/22/2021 2:32:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I could say a lot but I won't  |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 2:50:56 AM EDT
[#23]
If China took Taiwan the automakers would be fooked
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Posted: 7/22/2021 3:26:52 AM EDT
[#24]
Just more shit to fail.
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Posted: 7/22/2021 3:42:36 AM EDT
[#25]
Here's what I'm working on, right now, at 3:30 in the frickin' AM.
It's a shifter interface board for one of "the big 3". It plugs into another board of LED's to tell you what gear (PRNDL) you are in. It also controls the BTSI (Brake/Transmission Shift Interlock) which prevents you from shifting into gear before you engage your brake. This feature is often not present on product we send to a particular country that ryhmes with "Vachina". As fast as we can acquire the parts, we crank these out, or at least try to, 24/7. You see that little black square sitting on the printed circuit board? That's one of them there IC chips (integrated circuit), a little baby microprocessor. That's everybody's main shortage - but connectors, LEDs and of course, tantulum capacitors - all are in short supply. It's freakin' hand to mouth right now with no end in sight.   |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 5:03:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Soooo.......car shortage is going to be a few years? Brand new customer orders won't be receiving shipment until 2024. We were already expanding our main fab between 20-30% in 2H 2020. Everyone that waited until earlier this year to put fab expansion/construction plans in place won't be on-line with volume production until 2024/2025. Also, with the industry staying at 12" wafers, things will only get worse going forward. We have been stuck with 12" wafers for almost 20years, when we would typically see a +2x increase to raw wafer area every ~10years. Current cutting edge nodes are using a new lithography process called EUV that will be with us for at least the next 10 or so years, so likely 12" wafers are here to stay. The majority of automotive IC's are still made on 20-30year old process nodes on 6-8" wafers. |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 5:15:14 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: with the industry staying at 12" wafers, things will only get worse going forward. We have been stuck with 12" wafers for almost 20years, when we would typically see a +2x increase to raw wafer area every ~10years. Current cutting edge nodes are using a new lithography process called EUV that will be with us for at least the next 10 or so years, so likely 12" wafers are here to stay. The majority of automotive IC's are still made on 20-30year old process nodes on 6-8" wafers. |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 8:26:24 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah I get that. That's what people want so that's what they should make. Just sucks to be the odd one out; no one makes a car for luddites  They do, Americans just buy them. |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 8:29:16 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Entire car and engine wiring schematic https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/498772/image-2023367.jpg Stop making me cry. schematics if they were actually printed now out for one of our new cars would be as thick as a Webster dictionary. That's only an mild exaggeration |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 8:33:30 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If China took Taiwan the automakers would be fooked So would busses, trucks and trains |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 8:36:48 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ha!, 3 brush generator master race Tehe generator go werrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr @Stutzmech 
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Posted: 7/22/2021 8:37:44 AM EDT
[#32]
My company supplies parts for semiconductor tool manufacturers.
The market is incredibly cyclical. Fabs will use the same tools for a few years then redo everything. We have been in a trough a few years, and entered a ramp late last year. Everyone who's been in the industry for 20 years or more says this is the biggest ramp they've ever seen. |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 8:46:36 AM EDT
[#33]
@littlepony. Didn't I see you post that you owned a Kia Soul?
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Posted: 7/22/2021 8:50:25 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @littlepony. Didn't I see you post that you owned a Kia Soul? Own 2 A 13 and a 20 @richlands55 |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 8:55:05 AM EDT
[#35]
Over 100 "control units" in a non hybrid 2021 German made auto. No idea how many are in each control unit but bunches.
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Posted: 7/22/2021 4:17:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Own 2 A 13 and a 20 @richlands55 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @littlepony. Didn't I see you post that you owned a Kia Soul? Own 2 A 13 and a 20 @richlands55 Reason I asked, I had an 18, traded it in about 6 weeks ago and bought a 2021 Soul EX. @littlepony |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 4:30:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: precession. customer demands have forced all of this. all of it. innovation for the sake of innovating |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 4:33:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Had a service tech tell me there were something like 9 different computer modules in my vehicle(at the time).
He could have been exaggerating but I know there are several. ECM, TCM, BCM at a minimum. |
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Posted: 7/22/2021 4:41:56 PM EDT
[#39]
Don't know really, probably a lot. Coworker has been waiting on a water pump for his 2018 Freightliner Cascadia for almost two months. Says there's none available in the USA
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Posted: 7/22/2021 4:51:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If China took Taiwan the automakers would be fooked Well all vehicles will have a Chinese backdoor in their software at a minimum.
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Posted: 7/22/2021 6:28:45 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Reason I asked, I had an 18, traded it in about 6 weeks ago and bought a 2021 Soul EX. @littlepony Noice |
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