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Posted: 5/13/2019 11:50:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Those 3 plant workers, balls of plutonium.
And Stellan Skarsgard playing Boris Shcherbina was a great choice. He sells the roll well. |
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Posted: 5/13/2019 11:56:17 PM EDT
[#2]
I was at work at my plant today and I was getting a little creeped out lol. Just thinking what those dudes went through while I was standing in the reactor building...
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Posted: 5/13/2019 11:58:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like how it's a nuclear emergency and the nuclear scientists in Minsk won't come in because it's Saturday. Such patriots! Communism: bringing out the worst in people since 1917. 
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:12:25 AM EDT
[#4]
Just finished the first 2 episodes
Holy fuck this show is awesome |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:18:03 AM EDT
[#5]
Think this is the best show right now, certainly better than Game of Thrones has become. I got my brother to watch the first episode. He agrees this mini series is great. Said he was blown away at the fact that communism is worse than he thought it was and was portrayed that way. Very accurate and well done.
I had a land lord in missoula, he was Greek and went back often. Older guy who was lonely and i would BS with him for an hour whenever i would go pay rent. He told me that all his friends were dead in Greece. He said he thought it was Chernobyl that was the cause. That was 5 or 6 years ago. He told me back then that the winds carried all that crap into Greece. Pretty sure he was living in Montana when it happened. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:23:46 AM EDT
[#6]
Watched Ep 1 last night and it was amazing! Makes me hate communists even more. Have not seen Ep 2 yet.
Thanks to the (seemingly) nuclear engineers or physicists on this thread. In combo with you guys and other sources I spend some time learning about what happened inside this reactor, and concepts of neutron moderation, void coefficients, and xenon 135 poisoning. Coincidentally this is my readying material for tonight, not because of this show either. I actually have to take the Raphex exam tomorrow. Some of the information from Chernobyl directly impacts what I’m tested on in my field. Crazy.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:33:19 AM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:34:09 AM EDT
[#8]
I'm not tracking how they got to a multiple mega ton explosion from the potential steam explosion in the bubbler pools. Big and bad sure. Multiple times more radiation released..yeah. but I'm not seeing the yield of a multiple stage boosted fusion weapon.
When in the midst of the poo hitting the spinny thing it is always best to assume the worst and act accordingly. But 3-4 megatons isn't happening without a nuclear detonation and I don't see how that would be possible. Did it get lost in the translation of history, did the smart people in the room mean contamination equivalent to a 4 megaton explosion? Or is there some scenario where a steam explosion could somehow be the catalyst for a nuclear detonation? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:38:34 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Holy shit. At worst I thought they might have embellished her character a little, not made it up completely. And then to give a fictional character the solution to the problem the old white male idiots couldn't solve. Just wow. Good show otherwise, lol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
With all the SJW bullshit these days are we really supposed to believe a woman muscled her way through security zones and single handedly saved the situation? It's cool if she really did, but Hollywood's agenda has me second guessing everything these days. The guy that finally gets to the valve that diverts the water in the next episode will probably be a black transgender rusky. 
https://meaww.com/hbo-chernobyl-emilty-watson-spoiler-scientists-ulana-valery-legasov God forbid the majority of good shit and good deeds came from white men. But in the new movies little Rey mastered the Jedi arts in two weeks of weekends just playing around with it. That's the new Hollywood narrative in all skill sets involving women. Marvel does it too. In season 2 of Iron Fist the Iron Fist dude, who had spent a decade mastering the power, transferred that power to a woman who didn't really believe it existed. And she mastered its use in 2 minutes. The narrative is all women, by virtue of their sex, are born superwomen. IOW, better than men at everything (except upper body strength and knowing when to STFU.) |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:51:22 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not tracking how they got to a multiple mega ton explosion from the potential steam explosion in the bubbler pools. Big and bad sure. Multiple times more radiation released..yeah. but I'm not seeing the yield of a multiple stage boosted fusion weapon. When in the midst of the poo hitting the spinny thing it is always best to assume the worst and act accordingly. But 3-4 megatons isn't happening without a nuclear detonation and I don't see how that would be possible. Did it get lost in the translation of history, did the smart people in the room mean contamination equivalent to a 4 megaton explosion? Or is there some scenario where a steam explosion could somehow be the catalyst for a nuclear detonation? Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not tracking how they got to a multiple mega ton explosion from the potential steam explosion in the bubbler pools. Big and bad sure. Multiple times more radiation released..yeah. but I'm not seeing the yield of a multiple stage boosted fusion weapon. When in the midst of the poo hitting the spinny thing it is always best to assume the worst and act accordingly. But 3-4 megatons isn't happening without a nuclear detonation and I don't see how that would be possible. Did it get lost in the translation of history, did the smart people in the room mean contamination equivalent to a 4 megaton explosion? Or is there some scenario where a steam explosion could somehow be the catalyst for a nuclear detonation? http://www.rri.kyoto-u.ac.jp/NSRG/reports/kr79/kr79pdf/Malko1.pdf Another model of the nuclear explosion was proposed by authors [16]. According to them, soon after
the beginning of the experiment a sudden boiling of water occurred in the core. It was caused as a result of depressurization and flow rate reduction of the coolant. The introduced positive reactivity was higher than the anti-reactivity Doppler margin. Therefore, the fuel reached the enthalpy of disaggregation just being able to quench the first reactivity trip. Some tenth seconds after this first power burst, the energy deposited initially in the fuel was transferred to the water. This process was very fast and the heat transmission to the water was so high that convective streams could not develop within the water. The steam film and bubbles formed on the cladding. The internal pressure of the bubbles increased so rapidly that the water was expelled from the reactor. This was the first explosion (steam explosion). It caused a demolishing of coolant communications. The reactor became dried and more reactive than the wet one, and a new power burst occur. The authors estimated the energy of the last power burst to be 1.0 TJ. This energy is equivalent to the energy of explosion of approximately 200 tons of the trinitrotoluene [18]. Similar estimations were established also in the reports [13,15]. Western specialists claimed after the Chernobyl accident that the catastrophic consequences of this accident were caused because an absence of the containment of the Chernobyl reactor. However, it is clear that there is no such containment in the world that can sustain to such explosion. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 12:55:57 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did i hear those estimates of the steam explosion right? Thought she said like 9 megatons, there is no way a steam explosion could do that. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 1:00:41 AM EDT
[#12]
Note to self: radiation not good for flashlight batteries.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 1:05:44 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Note to self: radiation not good for flashlight batteries. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 1:13:58 AM EDT
[#14]
Checking out the first episode right now. I've watched all sorts of documentaries on this.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 1:14:21 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Episode 2 ending was INTENSE!  |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 1:21:02 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Neither Hollywood nor the BBC produces the facts anymore. It's all about gender and identity politics. God forbid the majority of good shit and good deeds came from white men. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
With all the SJW bullshit these days are we really supposed to believe a woman muscled her way through security zones and single handedly saved the situation? It's cool if she really did, but Hollywood's agenda has me second guessing everything these days. The guy that finally gets to the valve that diverts the water in the next episode will probably be a black transgender rusky.
https://meaww.com/hbo-chernobyl-emilty-watson-spoiler-scientists-ulana-valery-legasov God forbid the majority of good shit and good deeds came from white men. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 1:32:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Awesome show, I watched the behind the scenes and they mentioned they made up the female character who is essentially a consolidation of all the Russian scientific community
Glad they were able to take a real event and add a fictional empowered female to it lol. Not a big deal but kind of funny that shit is a must if you want to have an HBO or a Netflix series |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 1:35:29 AM EDT
[#18]
Wonder what they(Russians) are saying about the show?
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Posted: 5/14/2019 1:56:03 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bitch all you want. But, if I had a look around the office, that wouldn't be an unrealistic choice for a composite character. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bitch all you want. But, if I had a look around the office, that wouldn't be an unrealistic choice for a composite character. On another note, I'm glad we have two threads for this show. This one has been awesome whereas the other one is producing typical GD gems like this: The elephants foot thing is just more anti-nuclear bullshit. Used to work with a guy who said you could make a counter-top out of it, eat off it, and you'd be fine.
Keep being pussies about it all though, sorry youre girl lost. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 2:14:36 AM EDT
[#20]
The USSR and their satellites produced a lot of female PhDs and academics in that era. Substantially different than what you'd see here in the US at the time. Think about it: they were top-down, command economies.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 2:29:10 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wonder what they(Russians) are saying about the show? Don't ever ask them how their day is going. Because they'll fucking tell you. Rule number two when talking to Russians: Don't expect them to jump on your anti-communism bandwagon. Because it's human nature to be defensive. No matter how shitty it was, look, it was their system, and they're going to take offense to some fucking outsider who wasn't there telling them how their lives were. They lived it. And they'll circle the wagons from outsider criticism. Even people "from Russia, but not Russian", those out in the Urals, out in those areas that supported those military-industrial-complex cities out there, people who really dislike Russian Russians, even they will get defensive when you screw up the beginning of a touchy conversation. People who grew up in the Soviet satellites are a bit different. It wasn't their system. It was a system imposed upon them, and their memories are far less "fond". tl;dr I wouldn't ask Russians what they think about it. It's just an unnecessary complication in the workplace. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 2:53:34 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rule number one when talking to Russians: Don't ever ask them how their day is going. Because they'll fucking tell you. Rule number two when talking to Russians: Don't expect them to jump on your anti-communism bandwagon. Because it's human nature to be defensive. No matter how shitty it was, look, it was their system, and they're going to take offense to some fucking outsider who wasn't there telling them how their lives were. They lived it. And they'll circle the wagons from outsider criticism. Even people "from Russia, but not Russian", those out in the Urals, out in those areas that supported those military-industrial-complex cities out there, people who really dislike Russian Russians, even they will get defensive when you screw up the beginning of a touchy conversation. People who grew up in the Soviet satellites are a bit different. It wasn't their system. It was a system imposed upon them, and their memories are far less "fond". tl;dr I wouldn't ask Russians what they think about it. It's just an unnecessary complication in the workplace. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:00:48 AM EDT
[#23]
Note to self - when entering the basement of a destroyed nuclear power plant, bring glowsticks as backup light source.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:23:30 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With all the SJW bullshit these days are we really supposed to believe a woman muscled her way through security zones and single handedly saved the situation? It's cool if she really did, but Hollywood's agenda has me second guessing everything these days. The guy that finally gets to the valve that diverts the water in the next episode will probably be a black transgender rusky. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 3:30:45 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The USSR and their satellites produced a lot of female PhDs and academics in that era. Substantially different than what you'd see here in the US at the time. Think about it: they were top-down, command economies. The producer may well have still made the part female because "muh strong woman" - there's a good chance that it's the case, I'd say, or maybe the production overlords demanded a female character because the cast was "too male dominated" or some such BS. But at least the part doesn't strain credulity or peg the BS meter nearly as much as when it's shoehorned in for other stories. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 4:06:14 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I only give it 6.5/10 because everyone speaks with a British accent. Its annoying as hell. They couldn't find any Russian/Ukraine actors? 
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Posted: 5/14/2019 4:06:23 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Note to self - when entering the basement of a destroyed nuclear power plant, bring glowsticks as backup light source. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/richard_onr/Forums/CPF%20Meet%202013%20Stonehenge%20Box%20Mine/12ivegota12incher.jpg |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 4:06:42 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I only give it 6.5/10 because everyone speaks with a British accent. Its annoying as hell. They couldn't find any Russian/Ukraine actors?
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Posted: 5/14/2019 4:08:22 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
when the fireman picked up that graphite block, I was like HOLY SHIT!!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Good first episode. Poor fuckin firefighters and families. Jesus. Portraying Dyatlov as I expected. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 4:14:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryIIRC,it is estimated the Soviet Union, in only 75 or so years, rendered ~1/8-1/7 of the entire land area of the planet unfit for habitation, as in incompatible with normal safe and healthy life, for the next thousand years or so. And remember that a bunch of the planet is already unfit, such as all of Antarctica and half of Alaska, and the Sahara, etc.
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Posted: 5/14/2019 4:19:10 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IIRC,it is estimated the Soviet Union, in only 75 or so years, rendered ~1/8-1/7 of the entire land area of the planet unfit for habitation, as in incompatible with normal safe and healthy life, for the next thousand years or so. And remember that a bunch of the planet is already unfit, such as all of Antarctica and half of Alaska, and the Sahara, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
 Attached File |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 4:21:54 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good first episode. It really illustrates how unprepared they were to deal with a nuclear disaster and how f-ed up it would be to deal with it. Things aren’t much better now for any country dependent on nuclear power. Think Fukushima. Other than being upfront and honest with the public, dealing with a nuclear disaster is still going to be a horrifying lethal shit show. With all the nuclear facilities located in vulnerable areas in this country near high population areas, it’s very possible we could experience our own nuclear disaster at some point. As opposed to:  Attached Filecoal industry deaths annually |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 7:32:05 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. Do some reading on the way the Soviets talked about their ideal society at the time and in decades prior; it was quite egalitarian in theory and they liked to proclaim it as such. Seeing a female in a scientific position like that wouldn't be particularly odd, IMO. The producer may well have still made the part female because "muh strong woman" - there's a good chance that it's the case, I'd say, or maybe the production overlords demanded a female character because the cast was "too male dominated" or some such BS. But at least the part doesn't strain credulity or peg the BS meter nearly as much as when it's shoehorned in for other stories. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 8:44:46 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This report claims an explosion of around 200 tonnes of TNT. http://www.rri.kyoto-u.ac.jp/NSRG/reports/kr79/kr79pdf/Malko1.pdf I'm thinking the megaton level explosion and the visible ionization above the reactor in air are a little over the top but that's really picking nits...overall I think they've done a good job. The next episode seemed like they might deal with the causes of at least start down that road. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:03:35 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh yeah that's a pretty commonly accepted thought. The RBMK could be fuel cycled easier...maybe even while running?....not sure on that one... so it could be used for a breeder. They said they used that design for cost reasons...maybe...but they at least liked the idea that it was a possible plutonium producer. Objectively speaking, it's not up to par with western designs but run according to the operating procedures they are safe. They are still running, 30 years later. My take on it is that they shut off all the safeties and flew it into a mountain...metaphorically speaking. They didn't melt it down...they blew it the fuck up. It's tough to call it an accident, everything they did, they chose to do despite it being against the operating rules. Negligence? At least. I've seen it called "a lack of safety culture"...I was a safety engineer...lack of safety culture doesn't cover it. It was criminal negligence bordering on a crime against humanity. Western reactors don't have the dangerous characteristics of the RBMK so I'm not sure you could blow up a Westinghouse BWR the same way...but put the backup gensets in the basement in a earthquake and tsunami zone and watch what happens. They survived the one of the largest earthquakes and tsunamis in history only to melt down because the power went out and couldn't be restored fast enough. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is my take... The RBMK reactor was designed for non-enriched (natural) uranium, so had a large fuel volume. Water cooling through the fuel tubes with graphite moderation. Sound familiar? Yes, just like the US plutonium production reactors at Hanford, and the Soviet's initial plutonium production reactor which was based on stolen design of the US reactors. The Soviets were using the RBMK power reactors as distributed plutonium production. But the reactor design was not suitable for the operating demands of power production as the operating envelope just wasn't flexible enough. My take on it is that they shut off all the safeties and flew it into a mountain...metaphorically speaking. They didn't melt it down...they blew it the fuck up. It's tough to call it an accident, everything they did, they chose to do despite it being against the operating rules. Negligence? At least. I've seen it called "a lack of safety culture"...I was a safety engineer...lack of safety culture doesn't cover it. It was criminal negligence bordering on a crime against humanity. Western reactors don't have the dangerous characteristics of the RBMK so I'm not sure you could blow up a Westinghouse BWR the same way...but put the backup gensets in the basement in a earthquake and tsunami zone and watch what happens. They survived the one of the largest earthquakes and tsunamis in history only to melt down because the power went out and couldn't be restored fast enough. When you take a pause and really think about what they did, it appears that this was unlikely to be an accident. I believe there is a strong chance the Soviet government did this on purpose to undermine Western nuclear power efforts. What most people don't realize is how much time and effort the NKVD and KGB spent on undermining and obstructing the nuclear programs in France, Germany, South Africa, Spain, the UK, the USA, etc. Through any means possible. I would not put this "accident" above them, in fact, it is fits perfectly with their normal MO. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:07:09 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That describes the initial accident. I'm talking about the briefing they gave to Gorby. The estimate of the steam explosion if the corium reached the bubbler pools....it was massive...and I can't see why. I'm just trying to determine if I'm missing something or its creative license. I'm thinking the megaton level explosion and the visible ionization above the reactor in air are a little over the top but that's really picking nits...overall I think they've done a good job. The next episode seemed like they might deal with the causes of at least start down that road. It worked. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:09:08 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have said this many times before also. When you take a pause and really think about what they did, it appears that this was unlikely to be an accident. I believe there is a strong chance the Soviet government did this on purpose to undermine Western nuclear power efforts. What most people don't realize is how much time and effort the NKVD and KGB spent on undermining and obstructing the nuclear programs in France, Germany, South Africa, Spain, the UK, the USA, etc. Through any means possible. I would not put this "accident" above them, in fact, it is fits perfectly with their normal MO. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:12:56 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bet he died from cancer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Yeah The photo caption says that it was only able to be photographed via mirror. It was photographed in person, there is even a photograph of the person taking that photograph. What's disturbing is that the graininess of the photo isn't due to poor film or development or even JPEG compression of this image (though it doesn't help). It's due to radiation bombardment of the film. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KxRuWaD0sXg/U7MHoNyBuiI/AAAAAAAAJhs/qyyqpQXmDQY/s1600/The+Elephant's+Foot+of+the+Chernobyl+disaster,+1986+(1).jpg Doesn't take much radiation to fuck with film. Don't believe everything you learned from watching the Simpsons. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:13:35 AM EDT
[#39]
The explosion would be closer to 3-5 megatons.
It could be at first they may have exaggerated the number given the amount of unknowns and fear. Thare was a lot of water under the plant. Water expands 1700 times when turned into steam. Either way...most of Europe was on a brink of a total environmental disaster |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:14:34 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good first episode. It really illustrates how unprepared they were to deal with a nuclear disaster and how f-ed up it would be to deal with it. Things aren't much better now for any country dependent on nuclear power. Think Fukushima. Other than being upfront and honest with the public, dealing with a nuclear disaster is still going to be a horrifying lethal shit show. With all the nuclear facilities located in vulnerable areas in this country near high population areas, it's very possible we could experience our own nuclear disaster at some point. Read more books, watch less cartoons. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:16:09 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have said this many times before also. When you take a pause and really think about what they did, it appears that this was unlikely to be an accident. I believe there is a strong chance the Soviet government did this on purpose to undermine Western nuclear power efforts. What most people don't realize is how much time and effort the NKVD and KGB spent on undermining and obstructing the nuclear programs in France, Germany, South Africa, Spain, the UK, the USA, etc. Through any means possible. I would not put this "accident" above them, in fact, it is fits perfectly with their normal MO. I'm not saying they exploded a reactor on purpose. Even KGB wouldn't try to kill a continent. They wouldn't kill 50k of their own people just to cast a negative light on nuclear power. In actuality it contributed to the downfall of the USSR..certainly not one of the KGBs goals. Was it a breeder for weapons material? Maybe. Was is run by technically incompetent beuracrats? Yes. Did they blow it up on purpose? No chance. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:22:26 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah...not what I was saying. Accident implies simple carelessness was able to cause this. It wasn't. They were reckless and negligent. They new the rules and the reasons and took dangerous irresponsible actions anyway. I'm not saying they exploded a reactor on purpose. Even KGB wouldn't try to kill a continent. They wouldn't kill 50k of their own people just to cast a negative light on nuclear power. In actuality it contributed to the downfall of the USSR..certainly not one of the KGBs goals. Was it a breeder for weapons material? Maybe. Was is run by technically incompetent beuracrats? Yes. Did they blow it up on purpose? No chance. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:24:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The explosion would be closer to 3-5 megatons. It could be at first they may have exaggerated the number given the amount of unknowns and fear. Thare was a lot of water under the plant. Water expands 1700 times when turned into steam. Either way...most of Europe was on a brink of a total environmental disaster You're not getting a megaton yield steam explosion. Not even close. And i can't think of a scenario where corium could be made supercritical by a steam explosion. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:25:45 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Out of curiosity, what is your stance on jet fuel's ability to melt structural steel beams? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have said this many times before also. When you take a pause and really think about what they did, it appears that this was unlikely to be an accident. I believe there is a strong chance the Soviet government did this on purpose to undermine Western nuclear power efforts. What most people don't realize is how much time and effort the NKVD and KGB spent on undermining and obstructing the nuclear programs in France, Germany, South Africa, Spain, the UK, the USA, etc. Through any means possible. I would not put this "accident" above them, in fact, it is fits perfectly with their normal MO. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:25:51 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That describes the initial accident. I'm talking about the briefing they gave to Gorby. The estimate of the steam explosion if the corium reached the bubbler pools....it was massive...and I can't see why. I'm just trying to determine if I'm missing something or its creative license. I'm thinking the megaton level explosion and the visible ionization above the reactor in air are a little over the top but that's really picking nits...overall I think they've done a good job. The next episode seemed like they might deal with the causes of at least start down that road. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: This report claims an explosion of around 200 tonnes of TNT. http://www.rri.kyoto-u.ac.jp/NSRG/reports/kr79/kr79pdf/Malko1.pdf I'm thinking the megaton level explosion and the visible ionization above the reactor in air are a little over the top but that's really picking nits...overall I think they've done a good job. The next episode seemed like they might deal with the causes of at least start down that road. Megatons doesn't make any sense. "In a nuclear meltdown, the most severe outcome of a steam explosion is early containment building failure. Two possibilities are the ejection at high pressure of molten fuel into the containment, causing rapid heating; or an in-vessel steam explosion causing ejection of a missile (such as the upper head) into, and through, the containment." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_explosion It seems like the primary risk would be that the quantity of water would have enough force to launch all of reactor 4 + 2&3 into the air. So instead of 5-10% of the reactor entering the air like it did, it would have been 100%-300% of the reactor entering the air and causing massive contamination. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:30:10 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah...not what I was saying. Accident implies simple carelessness was able to cause this. It wasn't. They were reckless and negligent. They new the rules and the reasons and took dangerous irresponsible actions anyway. I'm not saying they exploded a reactor on purpose. Even KGB wouldn't try to kill a continent. They wouldn't kill 50k of their own people just to cast a negative light on nuclear power. In actuality it contributed to the downfall of the USSR..certainly not one of the KGBs goals. Was it a breeder for weapons material? Maybe. Was is run by technically incompetent beuracrats? Yes. Did they blow it up on purpose? No chance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have said this many times before also. When you take a pause and really think about what they did, it appears that this was unlikely to be an accident. I believe there is a strong chance the Soviet government did this on purpose to undermine Western nuclear power efforts. What most people don't realize is how much time and effort the NKVD and KGB spent on undermining and obstructing the nuclear programs in France, Germany, South Africa, Spain, the UK, the USA, etc. Through any means possible. I would not put this "accident" above them, in fact, it is fits perfectly with their normal MO. I'm not saying they exploded a reactor on purpose. Even KGB wouldn't try to kill a continent. They wouldn't kill 50k of their own people just to cast a negative light on nuclear power. In actuality it contributed to the downfall of the USSR..certainly not one of the KGBs goals. Was it a breeder for weapons material? Maybe. Was is run by technically incompetent beuracrats? Yes. Did they blow it up on purpose? No chance. It killed a few dozen people. As far as industrial accidents go, the body count wasn't impressive. Secondly, you don't know shit about the NKVD/KGB. You have no idea the evil they did. Its all public information now. Perhaps you should read more. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:41:16 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Killotons seems somewhat possible. Megatons doesn't make any sense. "In a nuclear meltdown, the most severe outcome of a steam explosion is early containment building failure. Two possibilities are the ejection at high pressure of molten fuel into the containment, causing rapid heating; or an in-vessel steam explosion causing ejection of a missile (such as the upper head) into, and through, the containment." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_explosion It seems like the primary risk would be that the quantity of water would have enough force to launch all of reactor 4 + 2&3 into the air. So instead of 5-10% of the reactor entering the air like it did, it would have been 100%-300% of the reactor entering the air and causing massive contamination. It would have made things dramatically worse for sure but not megaton scale. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:53:34 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First of all, it didn't kill 50k people and it sure as fuck didn't "kill a continent". Thats pure hyperbole and quite childish to say. It killed a few dozen people. As far as industrial accidents go, the body count wasn't impressive. Secondly, you don't know shit about the NKVD/KGB. You have no idea the evil they did. Its all public information now. Perhaps you should read more. As far as what I know...how the fuck do you know what I know? Because I disagree with you're opinion I'm not well read on the topic? And childish? Take your truthing some place else, this was a good thread. |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:54:26 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First of all, it didn't kill 50k people and it sure as fuck didn't "kill a continent". Thats pure hyperbole and quite childish to say. It killed a few dozen people. As far as industrial accidents go, the body count wasn't impressive. Secondly, you don't know shit about the NKVD/KGB. You have no idea the evil they did. Its all public information now. Perhaps you should read more. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have said this many times before also. When you take a pause and really think about what they did, it appears that this was unlikely to be an accident. I believe there is a strong chance the Soviet government did this on purpose to undermine Western nuclear power efforts. What most people don't realize is how much time and effort the NKVD and KGB spent on undermining and obstructing the nuclear programs in France, Germany, South Africa, Spain, the UK, the USA, etc. Through any means possible. I would not put this "accident" above them, in fact, it is fits perfectly with their normal MO. I'm not saying they exploded a reactor on purpose. Even KGB wouldn't try to kill a continent. They wouldn't kill 50k of their own people just to cast a negative light on nuclear power. In actuality it contributed to the downfall of the USSR..certainly not one of the KGBs goals. Was it a breeder for weapons material? Maybe. Was is run by technically incompetent beuracrats? Yes. Did they blow it up on purpose? No chance. It killed a few dozen people. As far as industrial accidents go, the body count wasn't impressive. Secondly, you don't know shit about the NKVD/KGB. You have no idea the evil they did. Its all public information now. Perhaps you should read more. If they wanted to that and were really willing to go through with something of that magnitude, they would have blown up a reactor in the west. Not only would it be much more effective at accomplishing what you say they wanted, it would also not have the potential effect of irridating a good portion of their own country. They would have no control of the after-effects of the explosion and would have had no way to know it wouldn't be even bigger than it was. Was Kyshtym also a KGB black op? |
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Posted: 5/14/2019 9:56:54 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you looking for a real answer or are you some kind of child? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have said this many times before also. When you take a pause and really think about what they did, it appears that this was unlikely to be an accident. I believe there is a strong chance the Soviet government did this on purpose to undermine Western nuclear power efforts. What most people don't realize is how much time and effort the NKVD and KGB spent on undermining and obstructing the nuclear programs in France, Germany, South Africa, Spain, the UK, the USA, etc. Through any means possible. I would not put this "accident" above them, in fact, it is fits perfectly with their normal MO. ?GB PL?? ??? G???T??SS: P??S? 1) ?L?? ?P ????????L P??S? 2) ??? P??S? 3) P????T I mean, shit... after that I'm genuinely interested in your thought on other theories. Click To View Spoiler |
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