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Posted: 4/3/2014 3:24:02 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Need to find another church |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 3:24:04 AM EST
[#2]
Find another church
My tithing is between me and God |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 3:26:52 AM EST
[#3]
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I rarely preach/teach on tithing/giving. To tell you the truth, many in my congregation say that I don't hit it enough. If it is brought up, it is part of a broader message and I will hit it for at the most a minute. I am shocked at how often that other pastors hit the subject. As a pastor, I don't want to know who gives or don't give. Sounds like this pastor and congregation are stepping into an area of peoples life that is a place that only the Lord should be in! OP, do you know the race/culture of this congregation? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Need to find another church I rarely preach/teach on tithing/giving. To tell you the truth, many in my congregation say that I don't hit it enough. If it is brought up, it is part of a broader message and I will hit it for at the most a minute. I am shocked at how often that other pastors hit the subject. As a pastor, I don't want to know who gives or don't give. Sounds like this pastor and congregation are stepping into an area of peoples life that is a place that only the Lord should be in! OP, do you know the race/culture of this congregation? When the pastor of a church drives around in a brand new $50k Lexus, it concerns me where the congregations money is actually going. The church that I occasionally visit, an offering plate isn't even passed around. There's a offering box up front that people go to before and after services. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 3:28:12 AM EST
[#4]
Sounds like the couple didn't understand that that particular church was looking for faithful customers, not faithful congregants. Glad the church clarified that before the couple got fleeced.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 3:29:30 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any church that needs to force parishioners to pay up is not worth a second look. Any church that *wants* to force parishioners to pay up is not worth a second look. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 3:29:44 AM EST
[#6]
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hehe. You should see what goes on at my "church" Church of fudge? |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 3:32:27 AM EST
[#7]
lol, HELLLLLL no.
I remember a thread here in GD a few years ago where some poor couple barely out of college and barely into real jobs were planning on tithing 20% of their joint income to the church and people were congratulating them. WTF, really? TWENTY PERCENT out the door for what? Especially as a new non-established couple? Yeah, no. This is part of the problem with organized religion. Someone has to PAY for it. I don't mind donating when I can afford a little, I understand the clergy have to eat, that's fine. 20%? No way. Automatic deduction by W2/bank info? 
I'd laugh in their face and be gone down the road to a smaller church that needs more people to fill their pews, who I will gladly donate money to as I can afford in return for their services and use of their facility. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 3:32:31 AM EST
[#8]
Never set foot in that building again.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 3:33:32 AM EST
[#9]
Nope, I didn't find that part in the Bible anywhere. I did see where you are supposed to bring your offering before the Lord cheerfully and in keeping with your faith. Nothing about a mandatory 10% tax. Some churches are doing the whole thing wrong, and in doing so they do far more harm than any good they seek to accomplish.
What denomination was it? |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 3:38:19 AM EST
[#10]
A priest, a minister, and a Rabbi were talking about how they spent their collection money....
The priest said, "we draw a circle on the ground, toss the money in the air, and what lands inside the circle, is God's, the rest is mine" The minister said, " we do a similar thing, but what is inside the circle is mine, the rest is God's money.." Then the Rabbi says, "we do that too. Except we toss up the money, and whatever God catches, he can keep!"  |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 3:38:26 AM EST
[#11]
Matthew 21:13
And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. Even JC opened a can of whoop-ass over this one. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 3:52:46 AM EST
[#12]
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Name of the church? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I mentioned in a thread a few weeks ago that I worked with someone who had to provide their W2 info (not tax info) to their church, for this very reason (tithing). Someone stated "that's a cult, not a church". I agree. I am pretty sure a large black church in Killeen TX wants your W-2 to be a member. Name of the church? Shit...cannot remember the name, but it is the one that has something like He is risen or something like that on bumper stickers. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 3:57:49 AM EST
[#13]
I always thought tithing was to pay for those costs involved with spreading the Gospel. It should be voluntary and given with no thought of any return other than when the Gospel has been spread throughout the world then the end will come and Jesus comes back.
We give to no one particular person or church or denomination. We give to those who use it to spread the Gospel, who use it to help the sick, feed the poor and the rest of what Christians are supposed to be doing. Any church that requires mandatory donations to become a member is missing what a church is supposed to be and not a place you will find your salvation. What Jesus offers is free. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:22:51 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've never been to a Catholic Church where that was even mentioned. "Tithing" seems more of a Protestant thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My parents' Catholic church recommends a 10% tithe, but you have to sign the check each week. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I've never been to a Catholic Church where that was even mentioned. "Tithing" seems more of a Protestant thing. The RCC parish my parents used to go to had a priest for a bit who, no shit, sent letters to people he thought were undergiving. He based this on what was given in the envelopes. My dad never uses those because he always forgets them at home, so he gave cash every Sunday. So my dad got a letter basically saying he didn't give anything to the church. When the letters hit there was basically a revolt and the Bishop ended up having to move the guy. Only time I've ever personally heard of it. Our Church does a first collection for parish stuff and a second collection for The Cause of The Week but there's no pressure. Everybody gets an annual report that details where all the money went. It takes a fair amount just to keep the lights on and the HVAC going. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:26:29 AM EST
[#15]
I really need to start a religion..
Eta: Tabootism - we only take 9%!! Join now and your first month is free*. * - after Baby Jesus renunciation fee, membership activation fee, processing fee and non-refundable deposit. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:26:51 AM EST
[#16]
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Find another church My tithing is between me and God And there is this.... ATL Bishop $2 MIL Home |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:29:18 AM EST
[#17]
There are plenty of churches that do no such thing. Find one of them.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:33:04 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yep Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That almost sounds like what the Germans do. Don't the Germans have a church tax? yep You think we DON'T? Money is fungible. When you make someone tax exempt, you are taking more money (taxes) from everyone and giving it to the free rider. We have a church tax. The Germans just know how much theirs actually is where we don't. NOBODY should be tax exempt. Period. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:35:53 AM EST
[#19]
Name of the church and city and state, please. James River Assembly, Ozark MO. One co worker attends and stated that they requested to see W2s and that he tithe accordingly when he was inquiring to become a member. A friend of the family stated the same. Only when inquiring about membership was their any discussion of W2s and the appropriate amount to tithe. I have not visited this church or inquired about membership so I guess I should take it with a grain of salt. Perhaps they misunderstood something, but I don't see why they would not be truthful about it with me. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:36:56 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This happens with a lot of the black churches I know. I've been asked for copies to give to the Church. This also happens to be a lot of the Churches where the Pastor (or so called) drives a bentley and lives in a multi-million dollar home. I'm a Christian and this stuff offends me to no end. Our Church never asks for a penny, it's up to the member and God what they give and we've never gone without our needs being met. No wonder people hate Church God wants joyful givers. Churches that require submission of W2 and forced tithes have, apparently, not read the Bible. Mike |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:39:41 AM EST
[#21]
That new sanctuary ain't gonna build itself.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:42:44 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That new sanctuary ain't gonna build itself. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:46:40 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think we DON'T? Money is fungible. When you make someone tax exempt, you are taking more money (taxes) from everyone and giving it to the free rider. We have a church tax. The Germans just know how much theirs actually is where we don't. EVERYBODY should be tax exempt. Period. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That almost sounds like what the Germans do. Don't the Germans have a church tax? yep You think we DON'T? Money is fungible. When you make someone tax exempt, you are taking more money (taxes) from everyone and giving it to the free rider. We have a church tax. The Germans just know how much theirs actually is where we don't. EVERYBODY should be tax exempt. Period. fixed |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:47:22 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The RCC parish my parents used to go to had a priest for a bit who, no shit, sent letters to people he thought were undergiving. He based this on what was given in the envelopes. My dad never uses those because he always forgets them at home, so he gave cash every Sunday. So my dad got a letter basically saying he didn't give anything to the church. When the letters hit there was basically a revolt and the Bishop ended up having to move the guy. Only time I've ever personally heard of it. Our Church does a first collection for parish stuff and a second collection for The Cause of The Week but there's no pressure. Everybody gets an annual report that details where all the money went. It takes a fair amount just to keep the lights on and the HVAC going. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My parents' Catholic church recommends a 10% tithe, but you have to sign the check each week. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I've never been to a Catholic Church where that was even mentioned. "Tithing" seems more of a Protestant thing. The RCC parish my parents used to go to had a priest for a bit who, no shit, sent letters to people he thought were undergiving. He based this on what was given in the envelopes. My dad never uses those because he always forgets them at home, so he gave cash every Sunday. So my dad got a letter basically saying he didn't give anything to the church. When the letters hit there was basically a revolt and the Bishop ended up having to move the guy. Only time I've ever personally heard of it. Our Church does a first collection for parish stuff and a second collection for The Cause of The Week but there's no pressure. Everybody gets an annual report that details where all the money went. It takes a fair amount just to keep the lights on and the HVAC going. My wife's ex-husband (who I get along with) recently stopped going to his Lutheran church, because they were putting amounts (down to the penny) of what people donated/tithed in the monthly newsletter. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:49:33 AM EST
[#25]
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FPNI. A tithe is between that person and God. We don't tithe all 10% to our home church, as we contribute to other ministries as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Need to find another church FPNI. A tithe is between that person and God. We don't tithe all 10% to our home church, as we contribute to other ministries as well. This. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:49:59 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ha fuck that i think $20 from several hundred attendees for several masses every week brings in a pretty nice chunk of change $20? When did the ticket price jump?
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Posted: 4/3/2014 4:54:25 AM EST
[#27]
Lol- there is a few churches in Dallas that you can still "buy. " a pew in. And they do the same shit.
That's not of God. Jesus had a whip in his hand over this typo thang. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:01:30 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As for whether I pay tithes on gross or net earnings, it depends on whether I personally desire gross or net blessings.  
That is awesome. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:03:53 AM EST
[#29]
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It isn't a tithe if it is compelled. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Need to find another church Then it is dues, like a Union. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:18:33 AM EST
[#30]
I might give them 10 % of whats left after expenses, but they should have gotten to me before I got married
 
They might get more if I just pass them a 20 bill on sunday
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:19:15 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think we DON'T? Money is fungible. When you make someone tax exempt, you are taking more money (taxes) from everyone and giving it to the free rider. We have a church tax. The Germans just know how much theirs actually is where we don't. NOBODY should be tax exempt. Period. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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That almost sounds like what the Germans do. Don't the Germans have a church tax? yep You think we DON'T? Money is fungible. When you make someone tax exempt, you are taking more money (taxes) from everyone and giving it to the free rider. We have a church tax. The Germans just know how much theirs actually is where we don't. NOBODY should be tax exempt. Period. 
Not taxing somebody is not the same as giving them money. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:22:40 AM EST
[#32]
This is the kind of stuff that turns people away from God. The people who turn others away from God because of their behavior are in for some deep do doo down the road.
I know of churches and individual pastors who will not baptize a person into their (not God's church) church who don't sign a list of doctrinal beliefs and promises, one of which is to tithe. They are missing the point that being baptized is to be baptized into Christ and not into any denomination. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:24:09 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Need to find another church Yep. That's outrageous. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:25:08 AM EST
[#34]
So we still don't have the name of a single church where this is claimed to be happening?
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:25:28 AM EST
[#35]
My mother had a falling out with our church for many years. Our priest liked to drink, gamble, and go on European vacations - not to mention lived in what was probably the most expensive house in town at the time. That was just accepted - drinks were always given to him. The house was used for other things. The vacations were free except for the airfare - and he generally paid off his gambling bill...
Well one night the game was at our house. I think as the story goes, it was acey ducey. I guess the Priest had a good hand, bet hard and lost - this was in the 60's and he lost a little less than 1k (worth a bit more than 1/2 a new car at the time). He paid off. Next week he asked my mom for her calf donation (traditionally our community tithed with the products of our ranches - ranchers would donate calves, which would be auctioned to raise money - I think the donation that we normally gave would have just about covered the gambling debt). My mother really did not go to church much after that. Timing is important - he lacked it. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:27:23 AM EST
[#36]
New church time
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:28:10 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think we DON'T? Money is fungible. When you make someone tax exempt, you are taking more money (taxes) from everyone and giving it to the free rider. We have a church tax. The Germans just know how much theirs actually is where we don't. NOBODY should be tax exempt. Period. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That almost sounds like what the Germans do. Don't the Germans have a church tax? yep You think we DON'T? Money is fungible. When you make someone tax exempt, you are taking more money (taxes) from everyone and giving it to the free rider. We have a church tax. The Germans just know how much theirs actually is where we don't. NOBODY should be tax exempt. Period. Lol. Libertarians: taxes are too high and should be eliminated, unless you disagree with our ideology. Fun fact, the founding fathers were planning on creating a national tax designed to support the nations churches, as seen in Europe. They were dissuaded by a Baptist pastor named John Leland who argued that such a tax would violate people's free exercise of religion. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:28:51 AM EST
[#38]
Quoted:
Local talk radio today discussed the fact that after two visits to a church a couple new to the area was approached by church members and told that in order to become members that had to bring in their W-2's and have a tithe (10%) automatically deducted? Anyone ever heard of this? If genuine, they should run...not walk, not saunter, not jog...run away as fast as it is possible for them to run. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:31:47 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think we DON'T? Money is fungible. When you make someone tax exempt, you are taking more money (taxes) from everyone and giving it to the free rider. We have a church tax. The Germans just know how much theirs actually is where we don't. NOBODY should be tax exempt. Period. Nobody who goes to a church and voluntarily contributes money to it is tax exempt...so what are you bitching about? If you've had no actual involvement in the operation of a nonprofit, it's probably pretty fucking stupid to run your trap about how they operate. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:32:48 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
James River Assembly, Ozark MO. One co worker attends and stated that they requested to see W2s and that he tithe accordingly when he was inquiring to become a member. A friend of the family stated the same. Only when inquiring about membership was their any discussion of W2s and the appropriate amount to tithe. I have not visited this church or inquired about membership so I guess I should take it with a grain of salt. Perhaps they misunderstood something, but I don't see why they would not be truthful about it with me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Name of the church and city and state, please. James River Assembly, Ozark MO. One co worker attends and stated that they requested to see W2s and that he tithe accordingly when he was inquiring to become a member. A friend of the family stated the same. Only when inquiring about membership was their any discussion of W2s and the appropriate amount to tithe. I have not visited this church or inquired about membership so I guess I should take it with a grain of salt. Perhaps they misunderstood something, but I don't see why they would not be truthful about it with me. A church asking to see your W2 is way the fuck over the line in ways so massive it's difficult to actually verbalize how fucking deeply and horrifically wrong it is. I've worked in churches and charities all my life as a volunteer, including doing finances. Never in a million years would I ever even conceive of asking to see somebody's W2. It's never even flashed across by brain as a thought that a sane, moral human being would have. ...which is, I suspect, the problem. The people asking are not sane or moral. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:49:31 AM EST
[#41]
I'll be the fist to admit that my nickname in the Army was "the Antichrist". Wouldn't step foot into a church after the BS I was put through growing up a Catholic (and no I wasn't an alter boy). Finally in my new wife convinced me to go to a Christian place. I'd go once a year or so. I swear every single time I went the sermon was about how we needed to tithe and the congregation wasn't doing enough. Fucking Bullshit - it's always about the money.
I hear the Mormons keep very good records of tithing as well. And for a Church that makes millions I find it surprising the parents foot the bill for the missionaries. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:50:21 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A church asking to see your W2 is way the fuck over the line in ways so massive it's difficult to actually verbalize how fucking deeply and horrifically wrong it is. I've worked in churches and charities all my life as a volunteer, including doing finances. Never in a million years would I ever even conceive of asking to see somebody's W2. It's never even flashed across by brain as a thought that a sane, moral human being would have. ...which is, I suspect, the problem. The people asking are not sane or moral. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Name of the church and city and state, please. James River Assembly, Ozark MO. One co worker attends and stated that they requested to see W2s and that he tithe accordingly when he was inquiring to become a member. A friend of the family stated the same. Only when inquiring about membership was their any discussion of W2s and the appropriate amount to tithe. I have not visited this church or inquired about membership so I guess I should take it with a grain of salt. Perhaps they misunderstood something, but I don't see why they would not be truthful about it with me. A church asking to see your W2 is way the fuck over the line in ways so massive it's difficult to actually verbalize how fucking deeply and horrifically wrong it is. I've worked in churches and charities all my life as a volunteer, including doing finances. Never in a million years would I ever even conceive of asking to see somebody's W2. It's never even flashed across by brain as a thought that a sane, moral human being would have. ...which is, I suspect, the problem. The people asking are not sane or moral. I'm calling BS on the James River claim. I know several members down there who would flip their lid over handing over their W2s & at least one that doesn't believe in a tithe. The church has an option for online giving, maybe that's where he's getting this from. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:50:49 AM EST
[#43]
Fuck that, places like that aren't churches they are criminal enterprises cloaked in a smug garment of morality.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:51:57 AM EST
[#44]
hey nobody told you that you are forced to tithe and nobody told you that you are forced to obey God that is your choice.
if a pastor or priest misuses God's money it is God that will deal with him, not you. if you are not getting fed by that Church find one that finds you and obey God there. the roughest times of my life is when I did the things that many here tell you to do. when I stopped tithing on my gross and just gave a 20 like my Mother in law suggested I kept going deeper in debt, when I went back to tithing 10% of my gross it was like the sky opened up and all our needs were met. its just the way it is. I have posted this story before and its long so I will tell the short version company i worked for just shut down, I had a house and food and my last paycheck but not much else. I passed a man standing in the pouring rain on the other side of the highway holding a will work for food sign. I heard God's voice tell me to go back and give him all I had on me which was only $13.47 so I did. as I pulled away he was gone, no car had passed me and he was next to a huge open field. within an hour I got a call to come pickup a check for a job that I bid to a condo and instead of taking 2 weeks to do it the job fell in place and I did it within 3.5 days and made over 9k profit.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 5:53:06 AM EST
[#45]
If that Church feels like it's their right to do that... then they should be taxed.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:05:38 AM EST
[#46]
some friends went to a new local church
I joined them a few Sundays in my search for a church that wasnt about social aspects I liked the church and went back, it was no secret new church needs $ to keep the doors open it came to the point of every Sunday the whole sermon was about tithing.... every... single... Sunday... we all quit attending, church is still there so I guess the message met its mark lol |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:06:52 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Speaking of money and churches, there's a special on Scientology on H2 right now. Quite the documentary. Sorry for thread hijack. How Scientology can get away with being classified as a church is beyond me.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:07:51 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It isn't a tithe if it is compelled. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Need to find another church All of the above
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:09:07 AM EST
[#49]
Quoted:
Local talk radio today discussed the fact that after two visits to a church a couple new to the area was approached by church members and told that in order to become members that had to bring in their W-2's and have a tithe (10%) automatically deducted? Anyone ever heard of this? I think tithing (if that is the correct term) is admirable. I think the church forcing members to do so is ... missing the point. Thoughts? I wouldn't go to a church like that. That completely contradicts the entire intent of tithes and offerings. However they are a private organization free to make their own rules for membership. |
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Posted: 4/3/2014 6:09:56 AM EST
[#50]
I have no issue with this.
If you don't like it, don't attend. Seems simple. |
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