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Link Posted: 11/9/2021 9:50:47 PM EST
[#1]
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Quoted:
Good heavens dude.   Consider safety.  I suspect that you are much safer in your truck than a tiny EV.
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Cars are generally safer than awkward, high center of gravity trucks with primitive suspensions, horrible weight distribution and poor braking performance.

Cars generally handle better, stop better, have superior performance and traction than pickups.
Link Posted: 11/9/2021 9:53:32 PM EST
[#2]
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Quoted:
Oil comes from pipelines.  Biden shuts those down or lets Russian criminals do it.


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Good luck charging your ev when the power grid is severely compromised by FJB and the lunatic left.
Oil comes from pipelines.  Biden shuts those down or lets Russian criminals do it.





Bruh.

When electricity is illegal, infinite gasoline will be free!

And thank God that gas cars don't have computers in them! Or a government that could stop them almost 2 decades ago!
Link Posted: 11/9/2021 9:53:44 PM EST
[#3]
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Quoted:
Cars are generally safer than awkward, high center of gravity trucks with primitive suspensions, horrible weight distribution and poor braking performance.

Cars generally handle better, stop better, have superior performance and traction than pickups.
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The bigger vehicle wins all day long so long as it's not 20+ years old.
Link Posted: 11/9/2021 9:55:37 PM EST
[#4]
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                                             Tesla 3         F-150 Supercrew
cost to buy                             $44,000$37,500
insurance                                      $1,300$1,200
electricity avg $ .042 cost per mile$840            $0
gasoline avg 15mpg at $3.00/gal        $0        $4,000
Total cost to 20,000 miles               $46,140$42,700

Still cheaper to pay for gasoline in F-150
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I like how you conveniently left out all the oil changes from this equation. And kindly show me a $37k Supercrew... With out getting into your time machine and going back to 1998.
Link Posted: 11/9/2021 9:56:23 PM EST
[#5]
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Quoted:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/114071/screenshot-tiremeetsroad_com-2021_11_08--2160136.png

WHY WOULD ANY ONE SPEND ALL THIS MONEY TO BUY ELECTRIC WHEN IT TAKES 10HR TO CHARGE
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1.  Almost no one empties the battery every day.
2.  Even if they did, the car charges while it is sitting in the garage.
Link Posted: 11/9/2021 9:57:29 PM EST
[#6]
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Quoted:
Trade it in on a Ford Maverick for 25K and 42 MPG for the win...
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This is probably one of the more reasonable options. Honestly there are a pile of under $30k cars that get around 30mpg or better that would still save OP hundreds of dollars a month.
Link Posted: 11/9/2021 10:02:52 PM EST
[#7]
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Quoted:

I believe Elon said they wanted to make an easily replaceable battery but virtually no one actually keeps their cars long enough
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The 2nd or 3rd owner might need to replace the battery. "New cars are usually kept for ...six years, because people want the latest features and technology, in addition to the new vehicle."
We will probably trade in the Mustang Mach-E  at just under 3 years. Not because it  will be worn out but because by then the newest model will have additional range and features. And the resale value is better if there is some warranty left.

Electric Vehicle Component Coverage: 8 years or 100,00 miles , with retention of 70% or more of the original High Voltage Battery capacity over that period.
Powertrain coverage: 5 years / 60,000 miles.
Bumper to Bumper coverage: 3 years / 36,000 miles
Ford Roadside Assistance is 5 years/60,000 miles
Link Posted: 11/9/2021 10:04:08 PM EST
[#8]
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I can't believe the morans that come up with this in every EV thread. The government is going to shut off electricity to people's homes to keep them from traveling anywhere but they will leave the gas stations open.
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It's sort of like TEOTWAWKI movies.  Everything's a complete disaster.  Thankfully, really hot chicks with sexy clothes and great personalities are in great abundance.
Link Posted: 11/9/2021 10:08:43 PM EST
[#9]
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That's the first thing I thought of with "gasser" in the title.
Link Posted: 11/9/2021 10:15:42 PM EST
[#10]
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Quoted:
just plug in to your neighbors house and get a free charge

bonus points for plugging into the street light
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That is exactly what we did on Monday.....
Link Posted: 11/9/2021 10:25:29 PM EST
[#11]
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The way people use the EV for commuting, they save considerable time because you don't have to fill up at a gas station.

He drives car 150 miles a day.  He comes home, plugs it and walks away.  That's it.

With the F150 every other day, he has to stop at a gas station and fill up.  The guy in a Tesla just drives home while the F150 guy has to dick around at a gas station.
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I took the motorhome to the gas station today to fill up because we're going to go out of town on Thursday. I had to use three different credit cards to put 65 gallons in it because it kept shutting off when it got the $65 or $75 depending on the card.
And the pump was slow. It took me 15 minutes each way to the gas station plus about 20 minutes fueling.
The EV, I spent zero time getting to the charger and zero time standing by the charging station in the garage.
It reminded me of another reason I'm glad i bought the Mustang.
Link Posted: 11/9/2021 10:29:35 PM EST
[#12]
In every thread about Tesla's, there are always a number of people saying that you will need to replace the battery...  Seriously?  

The battery in a Tesla is warrantied for 8 years.  The expected life cycle of current generation Tesla batteries is over 20+ years based on actual data logged from customer cars.  

Tesla batteries are in no way similar in their life cycle to a Phone, Power tool, or Laptop battery.  Tesla batteries have an active thermal management system with a liquid coolant, heat pump, and radiator.  It cools under driving use, as well as when charging, and it heats the battery in winter. The heat/cooling cycles is what degrades batteries, consumer electronics use passive air cooling, while a car uses active liquid cooling.  

Old Nissan Leafs had a battery cooled by air only when driving, and those cars had some serious battery issues in the early years.  All modern EV's use liquid cooled systems.  A Tesla battery will easily last as long as the motor and trans in a gas car.
Link Posted: 11/9/2021 10:33:39 PM EST
[#13]
I have no idea if Tesla is the right answer.

I do know that a 15mpg truck is the wrong answer.
Link Posted: 11/9/2021 10:34:55 PM EST
[#14]
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Quoted:
The way people use the EV for commuting, they save considerable time because you don't have to fill up at a gas station.

He drives car 150 miles a day.  He comes home, plugs it and walks away.  That's it.

With the F150 every other day, he has to stop at a gas station and fill up.  The guy in a Tesla just drives home while the F150 guy has to dick around at a gas station.
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This is a good point for the "I don't want to wait hours to charge!" crowd. When I had my Volt, plugging in at home was great. When I moved closer to work I'd go months without the engine running at all. Get home, plug in, unplug when leaving. It's less than 5 seconds a day. It's stupid convenient.

If an EV fits the context of your needs, your home and your ability to charge it, they're really great. If you don't have a house and preferably a garage not packed full of useless shit so you can actually park your car in it, or at least somewhere you can set up a charger where you live, an EV could be a pain in the ass.
Link Posted: 11/9/2021 10:36:35 PM EST
[#15]
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Quoted:


I don't mean to be a dick but this is a silly question.

Unless you're single living in a downtown condo or something, it's retarded to buy an EV unless you can afford at least one more conventional vehicle.   Even more so if it's one of the more expensive EV's.

This is because having an EV is not 1:1 to owning a conventional vehicle (ICE or hybrid).   You WILL find yourself without power, or without enough range, or unable to make trips on demand like you could otherwise for various reasons.   Every family I know with a Tesla is a constant chinese fire drill of swapping vehicles because of range and charge issues, even if they enjoy the Tesla - they all use them as a luxury good/toy and the EV is wholly incapable of handling normal errands and daily drive uses 100% by itself.

If you are keeping the F-150, forget about it; it doesn't pay at all.

Now, if this vehicle is primarily for business purposes and you otherwise would have no vehicle at all, that's different.   And even then a hybrid is probably the way to go for reasons of opportunity costs - again, you're shelling out a bunch of money; it makes little sense for almost any application to sink that much money and not be able to drive any damn place you please whenever you want to.

And good luck if you're in the part of TX that gets cold in the winter or need to go some place cold.
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I drive about 150 miles per day for work. Currently I have an F150 that gets about 15mpg. My question is, if I purchase a Tesla to drive, how much will it cost me in electricity to drive about 150 miles per day? Also, there are no oil changes so that saves money, but are there any other hidden fee's I'm unaware of?

I'm trying to decide if it's worth is financially to make the jump to electric.



I don't mean to be a dick but this is a silly question.

Unless you're single living in a downtown condo or something, it's retarded to buy an EV unless you can afford at least one more conventional vehicle.   Even more so if it's one of the more expensive EV's.

This is because having an EV is not 1:1 to owning a conventional vehicle (ICE or hybrid).   You WILL find yourself without power, or without enough range, or unable to make trips on demand like you could otherwise for various reasons.   Every family I know with a Tesla is a constant chinese fire drill of swapping vehicles because of range and charge issues, even if they enjoy the Tesla - they all use them as a luxury good/toy and the EV is wholly incapable of handling normal errands and daily drive uses 100% by itself.

If you are keeping the F-150, forget about it; it doesn't pay at all.

Now, if this vehicle is primarily for business purposes and you otherwise would have no vehicle at all, that's different.   And even then a hybrid is probably the way to go for reasons of opportunity costs - again, you're shelling out a bunch of money; it makes little sense for almost any application to sink that much money and not be able to drive any damn place you please whenever you want to.

And good luck if you're in the part of TX that gets cold in the winter or need to go some place cold.


He already has a 2nd ICE vehicle,  an F-350.
He would be replacing a gas guzzling F150 with the EV.
Link Posted: 11/9/2021 10:42:30 PM EST
[#16]
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Quoted:
Cars are generally safer than awkward, high center of gravity trucks with primitive suspensions, horrible weight distribution and poor braking performance.

Cars generally handle better, stop better, have superior performance and traction than pickups.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Good heavens dude.   Consider safety.  I suspect that you are much safer in your truck than a tiny EV.
Cars are generally safer than awkward, high center of gravity trucks with primitive suspensions, horrible weight distribution and poor braking performance.

Cars generally handle better, stop better, have superior performance and traction than pickups.



@AmericanPeople

It's counter intuitive, but I would look at the crash data outcomes for those two vehicles.  I owned a 3/4 ton Ram w/ 5.9 Cummins, and a Prius (close to 15 years ago for both), and my truck had a way higher mortality rate per 100k accidents than the Prius ... Like multiple times more, it wasn't even close.
Link Posted: 11/9/2021 10:43:45 PM EST
[#17]
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He already has a 2nd ICE vehicle,  an F-350.
He would be replacing a gas guzzling F150 with the EV.
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I drive about 150 miles per day for work. Currently I have an F150 that gets about 15mpg. My question is, if I purchase a Tesla to drive, how much will it cost me in electricity to drive about 150 miles per day? Also, there are no oil changes so that saves money, but are there any other hidden fee's I'm unaware of?

I'm trying to decide if it's worth is financially to make the jump to electric.



I don't mean to be a dick but this is a silly question.

Unless you're single living in a downtown condo or something, it's retarded to buy an EV unless you can afford at least one more conventional vehicle.   Even more so if it's one of the more expensive EV's.

This is because having an EV is not 1:1 to owning a conventional vehicle (ICE or hybrid).   You WILL find yourself without power, or without enough range, or unable to make trips on demand like you could otherwise for various reasons.   Every family I know with a Tesla is a constant chinese fire drill of swapping vehicles because of range and charge issues, even if they enjoy the Tesla - they all use them as a luxury good/toy and the EV is wholly incapable of handling normal errands and daily drive uses 100% by itself.

If you are keeping the F-150, forget about it; it doesn't pay at all.

Now, if this vehicle is primarily for business purposes and you otherwise would have no vehicle at all, that's different.   And even then a hybrid is probably the way to go for reasons of opportunity costs - again, you're shelling out a bunch of money; it makes little sense for almost any application to sink that much money and not be able to drive any damn place you please whenever you want to.

And good luck if you're in the part of TX that gets cold in the winter or need to go some place cold.


He already has a 2nd ICE vehicle,  an F-350.
He would be replacing a gas guzzling F150 with the EV.


Let's not use "dis-empowering" words like "gas-guzzling".

I might be an EV fan... but I have also been driving a Hummer for... "oh God almost 12 years"...

I'm...

Bi-gasual

...

Wait

I mean that might work, BRI if gas and diesel... (barely)

...


PAN-ALL POWER PRODUCTION AND UTILIZATION
Link Posted: 11/10/2021 10:43:43 AM EST
[#18]
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That is exactly what we did on Monday.....
https://i.imgur.com/ZEyD1eR.jpeg
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Quoted:
just plug in to your neighbors house and get a free charge

bonus points for plugging into the street light


That is exactly what we did on Monday.....
https://i.imgur.com/ZEyD1eR.jpeg


lol nice.

Link Posted: 11/10/2021 11:13:09 AM EST
[#19]
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Yeah, it's a no.   Because I'm tired of idiots believing overhyped marketing on cheap chinese lithium batteries claiming they can go 5,000 charge cycles.  And I'm tired of idiots who think that if a battery is still functioning, it's still counting towards charge cycles.  And I'm tired of idiots who just lazily say "Source?" when someone says something that they disagree with.  This isn't a scholarly paper, I'm not going to take the time to record every source I've looked at in the post, or keep a list of them in case someone asks for them.

Yes, I'm calling you lazy.  If you disagree with something, make a claim.  Don't just sit there going "cAn wE GEt a SoURCe oN THaT?"  Quit being lazy or STFU.
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This is my new favorite comment in this thread.
Link Posted: 11/10/2021 5:15:47 PM EST
[#20]
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Yeah, it's a no.   Because I'm tired of idiots believing overhyped marketing on cheap chinese lithium batteries claiming they can go 5,000 charge cycles.  And I'm tired of idiots who think that if a battery is still functioning, it's still counting towards charge cycles.  And I'm tired of idiots who just lazily say "Source?" when someone says something that they disagree with.  This isn't a scholarly paper, I'm not going to take the time to record every source I've looked at in the post, or keep a list of them in case someone asks for them.

Yes, I'm calling you lazy.  If you disagree with something, make a claim.  Don't just sit there going "cAn wE GEt a SoURCe oN THaT?"  Quit being lazy or STFU.
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Teslas are around 3kWH/mile, so you're talking ~50kWH of electricity ($5-15) vs. 10 gallons of gas ($35-$40).  That's probably $7200/year savings.

You'd be running the battery down around 75%, so you'd get probably somewhere around 600-900 trips before needing a new battery, so let's call it 4 years.  After 4 years of saving ($29k), you'd need a new battery at a cost of $16,000, so you'd still come out ahead.

Now, hot/cold temps and hills will affect the numbers on the Tesla significantly, so factor that in.  All in all, maybe run the numbers on something like a Prius, that takes gas, but still gets amazing mileage.


Can we get a source on that?


I had some numbers up when I typed that showing tests with a certain % discharge, and extrapolated.  If you're not at the extremes, cycles vs. charge/discharge depth is somewhat linear.

But even without numbers, that figure should be evident.  If you're testing to industry standards (not YouTube idiot "bUT tHe BAttEry SteEL WuRKS" methodology), then really, lithium ion is only good for around 500 full charge/discharge cycles.  Going 70% would extend that out some, maybe 900 or so.  Keep in mind that in OP's case, he wouldn't need the battery to FAIL.  Since he would need to use about 75% of nominal capacity for each day, he would need to replace it when it lost even 15-20% of nominal capacity.


So, that's a no on the sourcing your claims?


Yeah, it's a no.   Because I'm tired of idiots believing overhyped marketing on cheap chinese lithium batteries claiming they can go 5,000 charge cycles.  And I'm tired of idiots who think that if a battery is still functioning, it's still counting towards charge cycles.  And I'm tired of idiots who just lazily say "Source?" when someone says something that they disagree with.  This isn't a scholarly paper, I'm not going to take the time to record every source I've looked at in the post, or keep a list of them in case someone asks for them.

Yes, I'm calling you lazy.  If you disagree with something, make a claim.  Don't just sit there going "cAn wE GEt a SoURCe oN THaT?"  Quit being lazy or STFU.

At what point did I give any impression that I disagreed with you? Chevy offered a 100kmi (up to 150k actually) warranty on their Volt batteries, which at the 50mi claimed range would be 2000 full charge cycles and you're claiming less than half of that... Ya I'm curious where you're getting your numbers.

Getting all defensive doesn't help your credibility
Link Posted: 11/10/2021 8:52:47 PM EST
[#21]
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@AmericanPeople

It's counter intuitive, but I would look at the crash data outcomes for those two vehicles.  I owned a 3/4 ton Ram w/ 5.9 Cummins, and a Prius (close to 15 years ago for both), and my truck had a way higher mortality rate per 100k accidents than the Prius ... Like multiple times more, it wasn't even close.
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In order to understand the safety of a vehicle you need to know 2 things.

1.  Accident rate for the vehicle.
2.  Accident death rate and injury rate for the vehicle.

Item 1 is about not getting into a wreck in the first place.  Lots of accidents are avoidable.  Cars can generally stop faster, accelerate faster, have superior road holding ability, have superior traction, have superior high speed dynamic agility, have superior wind handling capabilities and are generally superior in all driving characteristics.  This allows cars to be more capable of avoiding impending accidents and not getting in situations that cause them.

Some accidents cannot be avoided.  Such as being at a stop light when some one piles into the back of you.  This is one place where size can offer some protection to the people being hit.

Item 2. is what happens to the passengers when an accident occurs.  In many cases, trucks are at a disadvantage because the high center of gravity and the inept road holding capabilites can mean worse outcomes because the vehicle flips or is less controllable than a car after an accident.

Muh size can be helpful in some situations.  However, there are plenty of situations where a car wouldn't have gotten in a car wreck because the driver could simply stop, or swerve to avoid an accident where a truck ends up upside down in the ditch.

Link Posted: 11/10/2021 9:13:57 PM EST
[#22]
I would just lease the Tesla keep getting a new one every couple years.
No need to worry about replacing the battery.
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