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Posted: 8/1/2017 3:02:35 PM EDT
[#1]
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Obviously you are right handed, based on the location of your group.  
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Posted: 8/1/2017 3:03:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Tagging for info
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Posted: 8/1/2017 3:05:21 PM EDT
[#3]
so SIG violates Steyr's patent on the chassis system (they're getting sued because of it), then messes up the drop safety?
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Posted: 8/1/2017 3:05:56 PM EDT
[#4]
no link to valid facts = FAKE NEWS
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Posted: 8/1/2017 3:07:49 PM EDT
[#5]
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no link to valid facts = FAKE NEWS oh guess you changed it... 
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Posted: 8/1/2017 3:14:10 PM EDT
[#6]
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so SIG violates Steyr's patent on the chassis system (they're getting sued because of it), then messes up the drop safety?
https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.ricanhavocproductions.com%2Foldsite%2Fimages%2Fsteyr-chassis.jpg&sp=48eb78a8960d6a0c82175cac962971c1 https://s16-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetruthaboutguns.com%2F2017%2F05%2Ffoghorn%2Flawsuit-filed-sig-sauer-steyr-patent-infringement-new-army-p320%2F&ua=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFgxMTsgVTsgTGludXggaTY4NjsgZW4tVVM7IHJ2OjEuOS4xLjcpIEdlY2tvLzIwMDkxMjIxIEZpcmVmb3gvNTQuMA&uadata=95120a441d382616acc13a71bc2759d9&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2FP1060300-900x600.jpg&sp=55e95444d5a744976c6263ed41427145&f=5776f15a3c3769ed0c58fc5f1ff9a134.jpg  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 3:24:30 PM EDT
[#7]
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Don't know how official this is, but this is from pistol-forum https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/277883/IMG-0461-267877.JPG |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 3:27:10 PM EDT
[#8]
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Interesting thing.....watching the video the slide fails to cycle when it supposedly fired. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 3:32:32 PM EDT
[#9]
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Because it's a blank. But yeah, of course it didn't cycle, it wasn't a "live" round. I'm a pretty stupid motherfucker myself, but fuck doing drop testing with a firearm with actual live rounds, that shit is dangerous.
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Posted: 8/1/2017 4:21:18 PM EDT
[#10]
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Since I'm active in the P320 threads I'll assume you're referring to me. I haven't worked for SIG is a few years now,and neither do most of the people I knew well. It is disheartening to see a product you believe in and worked on go through such issues. I did a ton of work specifically drop testing the 320, so I do wonder what they changed to see an issue. I also have read about these same rumors with every major brand and PDs. On one hand, the "evidence" for problems seems rather suspect. Most hear don't understand how the 320 trigger was designed to be inherently drop safe. On the other, while SIG makes great guns they treat their employees like disposable tools and basically lays off half of their production staff every year. You have problems retaining institutional knowledge and consistent quality when you mass fire and rehire faster than people can learn the job. I believe in their designs and product, but I'm sad to see how they treat employees and how that affects their final product. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Meh. I was called a liar when the 320 first came out for saying a couple guys in a 3 day class I was in, had the giant takedown levers cut the fuck out of their thumbs. On day 2 they went back to Glock. The "anything but Glock, Sig rules!!!!" fans assured me that 100rds slow fire at the square range developed no issues. Then Sig released lo-pro levers, and I was told it may have been an issue but is fixed now...
This thread is curiously missing a certain Sig employee that resembles Baghdad Bob at times when addressing serious Sig QC flaws... 
And I had a friend with a 556R that was shit and get fucked on warranty, and a co-worker with a now discontinued 556 thats gonna son be fucked on future parts/repairs.. I haven't worked for SIG is a few years now,and neither do most of the people I knew well. It is disheartening to see a product you believe in and worked on go through such issues. I did a ton of work specifically drop testing the 320, so I do wonder what they changed to see an issue. I also have read about these same rumors with every major brand and PDs. On one hand, the "evidence" for problems seems rather suspect. Most hear don't understand how the 320 trigger was designed to be inherently drop safe. On the other, while SIG makes great guns they treat their employees like disposable tools and basically lays off half of their production staff every year. You have problems retaining institutional knowledge and consistent quality when you mass fire and rehire faster than people can learn the job. I believe in their designs and product, but I'm sad to see how they treat employees and how that affects their final product. Had some other stuff goin on last night and didnt need to lash out like a dick with that snark. Again, my apologies. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 4:48:23 PM EDT
[#11]
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Hey. What I said was pretty shitty and a cheap shot. Im sorry. Had some other stuff goin on last night and didnt need to lash out like a dick with that snark. Again, my apologies. I try to toe the line between trying to convey my story and having a lawyer send me a nasty letter. Im proud of my tiny piece of history, and I know what SIG does and can do. I know the people behind the scenes and know there are no black and white hats, just imperfect people trying to produce genuinely good guns for people who put their lives on the line. I also try to keep everything in perspective with regards to the history of the industry. Everything people say about SIG I've seen with other companies. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 5:32:51 PM EDT
[#12]
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Not bullshit. Might have been Vickers but I think it was MAC. Saw it in a video or post by him a couple weeks ago. Maybe he'll come to this thread and clarify. Edit: ok i rewatch his third video on the vp9 test. He made the comments around the 6 minutes mark after the vp9 failed again. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nhUZa_q20Os |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 5:39:36 PM EDT
[#13]
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Interesting thing.....watching the video the slide fails to cycle when it supposedly fired. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Don't know how official this is, but this is from pistol-forum https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/277883/IMG-0461-267877.JPG |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 6:36:25 PM EDT
[#15]
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http://i.imgur.com/R5EJe8g.jpg 
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Posted: 8/1/2017 6:59:45 PM EDT
[#16]
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Well the sig FCG is folded steel while the Steyr is a milled piece of metal, alco the SIG FCG is serial numbered and considered a firearms where the Steyr isn't. Might be enough for SIG to win by proving the Steyr patent is vague and the 2 FCGs have many differences. The Steyr is a part of the receiver and not considered a firearm where the SIG FCG is the firearm. SIG had to have realized this years ago and planned for a upcoming lawsuit. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 8:00:04 PM EDT
[#17]
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Actually, it's a primed empty case. But yeah, of course it didn't cycle, it wasn't a "live" round. I'm a pretty stupid motherfucker myself, but fuck doing drop testing with a firearm with actual live rounds, that shit is dangerous. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 8:12:54 PM EDT
[#18]
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Look, I'm just passing it on. This is a gun board, this is an issue of interest to gun owners. I have no stock in Sig, do not own a Sig 320, and I do not give one infinitesimal fuck if you believe it or not. (Drops the Mike). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well, you and I know some people who know each other. F'n small world, less than 7 degrees of seperation between you and any other random person on the face of the earth. Mind boggling. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 8:22:25 PM EDT
[#19]
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NO Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Submit an open records request to the Dallas Police Department asking for all emails generated on or after 7:00 AM July 28 with the words Sig, the numbers 320, or any combination thereof. You'll find your answer young grasshopper. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 8:23:26 PM EDT
[#20]
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Well after watching that video and reading the text on that pic, I'm convinced op is not a douchebag, at least in this post  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Don't know how official this is, but this is from pistol-forum https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/277883/IMG-0461-267877.JPG  just noticed the 6 stars blocking out the name of th department-pure coincidence that DALLAS is spelled with 6 letters.
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Posted: 8/1/2017 8:25:01 PM EDT
[#21]
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Game, Set, and Match to ryann. He smoked your ass. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Submit an open records request to the Dallas Police Department asking for all emails generated on or after 7:00 AM July 28 with the words Sig, the numbers 320, or any combination thereof. You'll find your answer young grasshopper. 
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Posted: 8/1/2017 8:26:35 PM EDT
[#22]
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Thank God for that. Since you are thus convinced I may be able to sleep at night.
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Posted: 8/1/2017 8:29:27 PM EDT
[#23]
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Shouldn't those cops, oh I don't know, maybe NOT DROP THEIR FIREARMS? How many times were they dropped? On purpose? Or did they have a couple dozen cops drop their pistols on duty and they all went off? Do carpenters drop hammers or surgeons drop scalpels? Get over yourself. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 8:33:26 PM EDT
[#24]
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I agree. They should lock themselves in the station during their shift and avoid all human contact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They shouldn't do that. Their gun could go off. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 8:37:51 PM EDT
[#25]
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Yea new Army handguns have a history of growing pains http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab174/smurfyc84/189883_10150137291117993_561527992_6601345_3331825_n.jpg http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx319/jayjaypunisher/068.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://i.imgur.com/R5EJe8g.jpg http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab174/smurfyc84/189883_10150137291117993_561527992_6601345_3331825_n.jpg http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx319/jayjaypunisher/068.jpg |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 8:42:56 PM EDT
[#26]
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Warm whiskey and a hot ass woman, will help ya sleep even better.. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 8:49:14 PM EDT
[#27]
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AKA the Beretta Exposively Modular Handgun System (EMHS) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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http://i.imgur.com/R5EJe8g.jpg http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab174/smurfyc84/189883_10150137291117993_561527992_6601345_3331825_n.jpg http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx319/jayjaypunisher/068.jpg Nothing to see, move along. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:02:16 PM EDT
[#28]
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Shouldn't those cops, oh I don't know, maybe NOT DROP THEIR FIREARMS? How many times were they dropped? On purpose? Or did they have a couple dozen cops drop their pistols on duty and they all went off? Shouldn't you, oh, I don't know, maybe think before you post? It's a pretty safe bet that every cop in America (even the fat ones) has done things like climb through a window, have an arrest turn into a wrestling match, have a suspect try to disarm them-- you know, stuff you've only seen in tv shows, movies, and video games-- while holding a gun. But hey, keep thinking your 8 or 12 hour concealed handgun license class (with no retention training or even a minimum marksmanship requirement) taught you everything there is to know about carrying and using a pistol. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:05:12 PM EDT
[#29]
This thread has brought out Glock and Sig fanatics. Also a few HK haters decided to dive in.
Meanwhile I have been throwing my P320 around since reading this thread. J/K. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:05:15 PM EDT
[#30]
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It was MAC and iirc it was his third reliability test on the vp9 when he made the comment. It was a reply from HK to MAC on the two highly viewed videos where vp9 did extremely poorly. He also posted it on arfcom at least one time. Btw all three times the vp9 failed the test. Edit: ok i rewatch his third video on the vp9 test. He made the comments around the 6 minutes mark after the vp9 failed again. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nhUZa_q20Os Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not bullshit. Might have been Vickers but I think it was MAC. Saw it in a video or post by him a couple weeks ago. Maybe he'll come to this thread and clarify. Edit: ok i rewatch his third video on the vp9 test. He made the comments around the 6 minutes mark after the vp9 failed again. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nhUZa_q20Os |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:12:01 PM EDT
[#31]
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I was down at the Sweet Frog getting some yogurt when I overheard a guy talking about his cousin, who lives in the next county over, who had talked about his nephew, who lives in my county, who was at church this past Sunday, when the conversation about military grade duty pistols came up. Then the guy who works on lawnmower engines said his girlfriends husband said he heard that them there Sig handguns be going bang when you drop them..................... |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:14:48 PM EDT
[#32]
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The SIG320 is an ugly piece of shit and is easily bested by Glock, M&P, and even the VP9 which is by far sub-par by HK's standards IM me if you like, to keep this thread on track. Thx. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 9:57:20 PM EDT
[#33]
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Specifically, I see a lot of "this is why striker guns have tabbed triggers". I detail why this is here : https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_4/173064_.html&page=2&anc=1922878#i1922878 I'm not going to type all up again. As for the drop testing, the P320 was dropped tested in accordance with Army TOP, NATO AC/225, and the ANSI/SAAMI standards that define what is drop safe for firearms. Then the engineers created increased difficulty standards far above those industry standards to flush out more possible issues. Now, once again, that was early 2014. They very well could have had a qualify issue since then. But for all the "they should have tested the prototypes", we did, extensively. There's no testing like getting thousands of them into the hands of end users, and 5 generations later Glock still hasn't figured it out 100% either. I have no real vested interest in its success at this point, there's not even one in my safe yet (there is a Glock and the M&P I carried at SIG). I just genuinely believe in it. I'm also not brand loyal either and can seperate my brand list from my dick size. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:00:48 PM EDT
[#34]
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I read somewhere on GD a while back that Glock takes potential clients to high-end strip clubs to help with the decision making process. Don't know if it's true. 
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:06:57 PM EDT
[#35]
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Thanks buddy. I love all the assholes that come out and call me a liar without knowing what the fuck they are talking about. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:26:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Okay so I finally saw an e-mail on this from a neighboring agency. It doesn't show any proof or state any testing that was done, just that people have been made aware of an alleged problem. It does say "the manufacturer recommends not carrying a loaded chamber until ready to engage a course of fire." Apparently SIG is going to inspect the handgun in question to determine the cause.
Still sounds like no actual proof, but I do find the "manufacturer statement" line a bit concerning. I think I'll keep carrying my P320 though. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:28:31 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay so I finally saw an e-mail on this from a neighboring agency. It doesn't show any proof or state any testing that was done, just that people have been made aware of an alleged problem. It does say "the manufacturer recommends not carrying a loaded chamber until ready to engage a course of fire." Apparently SIG is going to inspect the handgun in question to determine the cause. Still sounds like no actual proof, but I do find the "manufacturer statement" line a bit concerning. I think I'll keep carrying my P320 though. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:32:35 PM EDT
[#38]
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Didn't the Army just pick oh idk a couple pallets up themselves?  |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 10:33:01 PM EDT
[#39]
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....and that's exactly where I got this information. From my brothers cousins garbage man. Nevermind the fact that I'm retired from DPD, and have known this officer since he was a rookie now on the academy staff. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Like I said, I need more than some random internet dude who heard it from a brothers cousins garbage man. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 11:16:35 PM EDT
[#40]
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Sounds like typical CYA... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Okay so I finally saw an e-mail on this from a neighboring agency. It doesn't show any proof or state any testing that was done, just that people have been made aware of an alleged problem. It does say "the manufacturer recommends not carrying a loaded chamber until ready to engage a course of fire." Apparently SIG is going to inspect the handgun in question to determine the cause. Still sounds like no actual proof, but I do find the "manufacturer statement" line a bit concerning. I think I'll keep carrying my P320 though. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 2:09:40 AM EDT
[#41]
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Are you assuming they can't? Would you like me to tell you about their FLIR systems that doesnt work very well because its so old, and they cant get parts for it? Of course DPS-101 is in Mesquite, so not too far away, and the city pays the state back in either air hours (DPD Air-1 covers for DPS-101 when it is out of service or on another call out) or $$$ at the end of the year. I wish DPD could acquire the Bell 222s that Careflite will or has retired. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 2:44:22 AM EDT
[#42]
Sig offers a "Glock style" (and others) safety tab on the trigger as an option.
I wonder if this option will now be the standard configuration? Sorry to hear, I had high hopes for the 320. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 3:04:22 AM EDT
[#43]
I just cringingly dropped my P320 full size 6x, 3 drops per test like in the video. Empty chber and empty mag and after each string of drops the trigger did not need to be reset to drop the striker, ie it did not fire due to the drop.
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Posted: 8/2/2017 6:40:34 AM EDT
[#44]
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AND your the only one in the room smart enough to fire this weapon...... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Like I said, I need more than some random internet dude who heard it from a brothers cousins garbage man. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:11:13 AM EDT
[#45]
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Repeating lies is still lying, you're just doing it out of ignorance instead of malice. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thanks buddy. I love all the assholes that come out and call me a liar without knowing what the fuck they are talking about. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:13:58 AM EDT
[#46]
So, is this a real issue? I haven' read all 7 pages, but it seems like there's info saying there is a drop issue and then "FAKE NEWS" posts.
I was interested in possibly buying one... |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:51:01 AM EDT
[#47]
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So, is this a real issue? I haven' read all 7 pages, but it seems like there's info saying there is a drop issue and then "FAKE NEWS" posts. I was interested in possibly buying one... |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:55:22 AM EDT
[#48]
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Again that is the rumor. DPD isn't making it public for now the reason |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 9:23:12 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again that is the rumor. DPD isn't making it public for now the reason |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 9:25:44 AM EDT
[#50]
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Where do your armorers get their training above and beyond Glock factory training? Because form a purely maintenance point of view glocks are awesome. Easy to disassemble completely. The disassembly/assembly times are also very short. Lots of available parts. Gun will shoot with 6 broken parts as long as the shooter does not mash the trigger 5 parts if he does. Easy to train armorers how to work on them. So why do your armorers hate them? Glocks are not my favorite pistol but for use as a Police or Military gun as a standard issued sidearm they are hard to beat. |
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