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Posted: 5/16/2019 10:53:45 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
only one way an F-16 crashes into a building and does not get engulfed in a fireball and that if there isnt any fuel in it. That airframe looks intact to me. Send her back to maintenance, replace a few parts, and get her back in the air... 
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Posted: 5/16/2019 10:54:59 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always fail at embedding tweets. I have given up and gone to linking. Try it. |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 10:57:50 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hydrazine will ruin you day. What does the aircraft use the Hydrazine for? The F16 does not have a APU. |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 10:58:51 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the upper right hand corner of the tweet there is a downward facing chevron, click on that, then click on "copy link to tweet" then when you reply to arfcom, click the little tweet birdy at the top of the arfcom reply window and Ctl V / paste the link. Try it.
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:00:00 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:00:05 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stop/contain leak/spread if possible. Flush solid surfaces/objects and dilute with water. Chemically neutralize. Put every last thing that was contaminated into barrels and ship it off for some other guy to deal with. |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:02:04 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well it worked today. 
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:04:35 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I feel like I accomplished something today. |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:05:22 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wouldn't be the first time an F-16 crashed because of fuel starvation. No fire? I'm not saying it's devoid of fuel...but... |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:08:02 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuel starvation in a -16 is very low probability. The engine will still siphon fuel with all pumps off. It is possible to shut off fuel flow, but to do so accidentally is also very unlikely. edit- I see you probably meant running out of fuel. Always a possibility, but unlikely unless he had both a fuel quantity indication discrepancy and was also not paying attention to time in flight. Again unlikely. Military pilots rarely run out fuel in peacetime. |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:10:13 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I feel like I accomplished something today. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well it worked today. 
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:14:49 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We’re automatically considered guilty. |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:14:49 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 215 is now closed in both directions, glad to hear that the GF is ok |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:23:17 PM EST
[#14]
I last heard the news about 9 PM and the freeway was still closed in both directions.
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:26:54 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I last heard the news about 9 PM and the freeway was still closed in both directions. |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:31:07 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that allowed for a CW5?
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:35:38 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is March anywhere near where Norton Air Force Base used to be? I remember going to an airshow at Norton around 1968 or so. Or maybe it was just an open house deal. Fun fact: March AFB was where they parked AF1 when President Reagan was visiting his ranch in Santa Barbara Ca. |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:37:25 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a daily requirement, so that made my daily quota. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is that allowed for a CW5?
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:44:36 PM EST
[#19]
To clear up a possible misconception:
The EPU provides no thrust. It only provides electrical power and hydraulic pressure. |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:46:31 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To clear up a possible misconception: The EPU provides no thrust. It only provides electrical power and hydraulic pressure. |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:48:56 PM EST
[#21]
The red is where the freeway is still shut down.
https://www.sigalert.com/map.asp?lat=33.83467&lon=-117.33717&z=2 |
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Posted: 5/16/2019 11:53:57 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I kinda figured only the engine provided thrust. |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 12:26:42 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I figured that would be "I made a cup of coffee today" or "I pooped" or maybe even "I showed up to formation to confuse the fuck out of people." |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 12:35:34 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, March is about 30 miles south of Norton. Fun fact: March AFB was where they parked AF1 when President Reagan was visiting his ranch in Santa Barbara Ca. In the 70’s, March had a B52 mission. It went to Guam in the 80’s. In the 80’s, March had a KC-10 refueling mission and a number of reserve units that flew F4’s. It was a SAC base and 15th Air Force was housed just to the SW of where that crash was. The building where the crash occurred used to be base housing. That whole area west of the 215 was called Arnold Heights. With the reductions over the years, March has lost a significant footprint. The base hospital, where my oldest son was born, has been torn down. The main gate was closed and moved to what used to be a back gate entrance. The small footprint of the base now still contains a lot of neat, historical buildings. I think the old officer’s housing is low income rentals, but I could be wrong. It’s unfortunate that it is not used more. Most of the flights are for package/shipping. Norton is also used for shipping. Moreno Valley took a hit with the base reduction. Anyway, traffic is disrupted on the 215 (the only one, all the rest are called I-215. No others are called “the 215.” It’s a California thing, right?). The building is messed up, but no lives lost! ETA: NEACP is National Emergency Airborne Command Post, pronounced “kneecap.”  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 12:37:12 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That wasn't my point really. That viper not causing an explosion and fire? Wow! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There’s only 1 March ARB and it’s right next to the 1 I-215 here in California. Kind of narrows it down. That viper not causing an explosion and fire? Wow! |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 12:38:52 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, March is about 30 miles south of Norton. Fun fact: March AFB was where they parked AF1 when President Reagan was visiting his ranch in Santa Barbara Ca. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is March anywhere near where Norton Air Force Base used to be? I remember going to an airshow at Norton around 1968 or so. Or maybe it was just an open house deal. Fun fact: March AFB was where they parked AF1 when President Reagan was visiting his ranch in Santa Barbara Ca. |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 12:39:30 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To clear up a possible misconception: The EPU provides no thrust. It only provides electrical power and hydraulic pressure. 
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Posted: 5/17/2019 12:42:16 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably closer than Edwards. It's amazing how many AFB/NASs SoCal has lost. NorCal as well. Sucks. |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 12:49:44 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They lost George, AFB, too. I think it was a TAC base and Norton was MAC. All three were within 50 ish miles of each other. NAS, AFB, Ft Ord, etc. |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 12:53:35 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since CA went SJW, all but the most essential mil functions have left. NAS, AFB, Ft Ord, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: They lost George, AFB, too. I think it was a TAC base and Norton was MAC. All three were within 50 ish miles of each other. NAS, AFB, Ft Ord, etc. |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 12:54:55 AM EST
[#31]
Glad everyone is safe.
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Posted: 5/17/2019 12:57:08 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They lost George, AFB, too. I think it was a TAC base and Norton was MAC. All three were within 50 ish miles of each other. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Probably closer than Edwards. It's amazing how many AFB/NASs SoCal has lost. NorCal as well. Sucks. I can't blame them for leaving the SF Bay Area. All they get is BS from the cities around here. |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 1:09:03 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, Air Force One landed at Point Mugu NAS. The NEACP was always at March AFB when President Reagan was in Santa Barbara. If you are going off of a memory of seeing a plane on March that looked like AF1, then what you saw was the Boeing E-4/747. It was big and shiny, too. I spent sometime walking around the NEACP and the officer’s billets when they were on base. President Reagan screwed up a lot of holidays for me then and later in my civilian career. In the 70’s, March had a B52 mission. It went to Guam in the 80’s. In the 80’s, March had a KC-10 refueling mission and a number of reserve units that flew F4’s. It was a SAC base and 15th Air Force was housed just to the SW of where that crash was. The building where the crash occurred used to be base housing. That whole area west of the 215 was called Arnold Heights. With the reductions over the years, March has lost a significant footprint. The base hospital, where my oldest son was born, has been torn down. The main gate was closed and moved to what used to be a back gate entrance. The small footprint of the base now still contains a lot of neat, historical buildings. I think the old officer’s housing is low income rentals, but I could be wrong. It’s unfortunate that it is not used more. Most of the flights are for package/shipping. Norton is also used for shipping. Moreno Valley took a hit with the base reduction. Anyway, traffic is disrupted on the 215 (the only one, all the rest are called I-215. No others are called “the 215.” It’s a California thing, right?). The building is messed up, but no lives lost! ETA: NEACP is National Emergency Airborne Command Post, pronounced “kneecap.” https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/188107/AAB2DFC6-62F5-435D-A6C9-5F24B8AA54DC_jpeg-947724.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Yes, March is about 30 miles south of Norton. Fun fact: March AFB was where they parked AF1 when President Reagan was visiting his ranch in Santa Barbara Ca. In the 70’s, March had a B52 mission. It went to Guam in the 80’s. In the 80’s, March had a KC-10 refueling mission and a number of reserve units that flew F4’s. It was a SAC base and 15th Air Force was housed just to the SW of where that crash was. The building where the crash occurred used to be base housing. That whole area west of the 215 was called Arnold Heights. With the reductions over the years, March has lost a significant footprint. The base hospital, where my oldest son was born, has been torn down. The main gate was closed and moved to what used to be a back gate entrance. The small footprint of the base now still contains a lot of neat, historical buildings. I think the old officer’s housing is low income rentals, but I could be wrong. It’s unfortunate that it is not used more. Most of the flights are for package/shipping. Norton is also used for shipping. Moreno Valley took a hit with the base reduction. Anyway, traffic is disrupted on the 215 (the only one, all the rest are called I-215. No others are called “the 215.” It’s a California thing, right?). The building is messed up, but no lives lost! ETA: NEACP is National Emergency Airborne Command Post, pronounced “kneecap.” https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/188107/AAB2DFC6-62F5-435D-A6C9-5F24B8AA54DC_jpeg-947724.JPG |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 1:19:52 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you for the correction and information. I always thought that was AF1 parked on the south side of the base. Never to old to learn something. On a related note, the AF1 plane President Reagan used is in his library in Simi Valley. If you haven’t been, it’s worth the visit. Impressive. |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 1:46:49 AM EST
[#35]
This is hitting a little too close to home. The F-16 is reported to be from the 114th Fighter Wing out of Sioux Falls, SD. One of my good friend's son flies for the 114th. They are out west for training.
 Sioux Falls |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 4:28:16 AM EST
[#36]
No fire...jet was empty too of fuel?
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Posted: 5/17/2019 4:41:25 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know shit about the F16. Would the emergency power not still power hydraulics? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought this happened on take off but it sounds like it was on landing. That explains my fuel confusion. No hydraulics or no hydraulics due to no engine powering the hydraulics? This jet died mid air long before it hit the ground. |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 5:22:49 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, Air Force One landed at Point Mugu NAS. The NEACP was always at March AFB when President Reagan was in Santa Barbara. If you are going off of a memory of seeing a plane on March that looked like AF1, then what you saw was the Boeing E-4/747. It was big and shiny, too. I spent sometime walking around the NEACP and the officer’s billets when they were on base. President Reagan screwed up a lot of holidays for me then and later in my civilian career. In the 70’s, March had a B52 mission. It went to Guam in the 80’s. In the 80’s, March had a KC-10 refueling mission and a number of reserve units that flew F4’s. It was a SAC base and 15th Air Force was housed just to the SW of where that crash was. The building where the crash occurred used to be base housing. That whole area west of the 215 was called Arnold Heights. With the reductions over the years, March has lost a significant footprint. The base hospital, where my oldest son was born, has been torn down. The main gate was closed and moved to what used to be a back gate entrance. The small footprint of the base now still contains a lot of neat, historical buildings. I think the old officer’s housing is low income rentals, but I could be wrong. It’s unfortunate that it is not used more. Most of the flights are for package/shipping. Norton is also used for shipping. Moreno Valley took a hit with the base reduction. Anyway, traffic is disrupted on the 215 (the only one, all the rest are called I-215. No others are called “the 215.” It’s a California thing, right?). The building is messed up, but no lives lost! ETA: NEACP is National Emergency Airborne Command Post, pronounced “kneecap.” https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/188107/AAB2DFC6-62F5-435D-A6C9-5F24B8AA54DC_jpeg-947724.JPG |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 5:27:35 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How does a plane not get fueled? I mean it seems like an important part of getting one ready to fly. Don't they have a fuel gauge of sorts and shouldn't the pilot have looked at it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
only one way an F-16 crashes into a building and does not get engulfed in a fireball and that if there isnt any fuel in it. How long was it airborne? I doubt it just took off, did it? Of course there is a furl gauge |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 5:30:38 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It ran out? How long was it airborne? I doubt it just took off, did it? Of course there is a furl gauge |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 5:35:31 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Emergency Power Unit. The F16 does not have a APU. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hydrazine will ruin you day. What does the aircraft use the Hydrazine for? The F16 does not have a APU. |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 5:45:04 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fighter jets are fully fueled as soon as they land unless they need fuel system maintenance. You know it was full when it cranked. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It ran out? How long was it airborne? I doubt it just took off, did it? Of course there is a furl gauge My point was how long was it airborne? Did it just take off or was it recovering from a mission? People dont understand how quickly fighters can run out of gas. The burn rate in AB is what around 60,000 lbs per hour or more and it has 7000 lbs of gas internally? The gas gauge is looked at all the time, constantly |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 5:58:55 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yes. My point was how long was it airborne? Did it just take off or was it recovering from a mission? People dont understand how quickly fighters can run out of gas. The burn rate in AB is what around 60,000 lbs per hour or more and it has 7000 lbs of gas internally? The gas gauge is looked at all the time, constantly
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Posted: 5/17/2019 6:02:20 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dont you consider the JFS very similiar to an APU? |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 6:14:46 AM EST
[#45]
It is reported that the pilot declared an emergency. It is reported that he had ordinance on board that he did not jettison.
So I think there is a good chance he had air ro air ordinance not air to ground ordinance, got very low on fuel, tried to get to high key and didnt and flamed out over the base and punched out and the jet without the engine running and with no fuel impacted the building with the EPU running. impact causing a hydrozine leak my best guess that fits what little we know so far. While it does have self sealing fuel tanks I can not imagine an impact that doesnt completely rupture the tanks. |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 6:31:07 AM EST
[#46]
Only one tank of a -16 contains a bladder (with limited sealing properties). All other tanks are integral to the airframe (without bladders). External tanks are also without bladders.
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Posted: 5/17/2019 6:36:59 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is NAOC not NEACP. I work closely with the mission. |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 6:40:11 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought it was automatic which is why they get pinned while the engine is still running. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I thought this happened on take off but it sounds like it was on landing. That explains my fuel confusion. No hydraulics or no hydraulics due to no engine powering the hydraulics? |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 6:41:31 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yes. My point was how long was it airborne? Did it just take off or was it recovering from a mission? People dont understand how quickly fighters can run out of gas. The burn rate in AB is what around 60,000 lbs per hour or more and it has 7000 lbs of gas internally? The gas gauge is looked at all the time, constantly |
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Posted: 5/17/2019 6:42:35 AM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like the cockpit area is still smoldering from the ejection rockets? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Eh. There are a lot of variables. But if the above were the case... One would think there was plenty of potential for ignition from all the electrical wiring involved in the crash both in the building and the aircraft among many, many other things. You can see in the pictures in the warehouse that there was a lot of black smoke, but one would assume that the broken water main that is dumping hundreds of gallons of water on the aircraft may have put the fire out... And that it was not a fuel fed fire due to the fact that a fuel fed fire would only be spread by water. https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/a7ef4c21-25e1-46cf-95c0-c083afc2ec2f.png But that is all speculation. |
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