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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:33:20 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. I that true? Screw that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nope, now she gets paid by social security until the kids are 18. No. I that true? Screw that. Yup, once a parent dies with kids under the age of 18, they file for survivors benefits. Pays out a portion of the decedents SSI benefits to the surviving parent for care of the kids. What do you want to bet that since "dead dad" and mom were in the middle of a divorce, that he never removed her as beneficiary of his life insurance, 401K, pension, house or other items. So she just might be rich now. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:35:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Dead guy Chad goes to pick up his son at Kyle’s house. Chad believes his son is there because his ex wife Christina is having an affair with Kyle.
Kyle is currently married to Anne-Marie, a judge (and not present). Chad’s current wife Jennifer filmed the potato video. Is that right? |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:35:24 PM EDT
[#3]
I wonder if they will charge him for firing in the direction of the structure that was occupied since there was a woman inside.
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:35:44 PM EDT
[#4]
Do mods just get to pick what words they feel are personal insults, even when they are not directed at a specific person?
I propose a CoC amendment: "The target of a supposed insult has to report the post in order for a mod to review it. A mod cannot decide on their own that something is an insult if the person it was directed doesn't even see it as one" |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:41:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Anybody else think this looks exactly like Mutual Combat?
If it is, can you inject 9mm HST into a fistfight before the other guy even punches you? 
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:43:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anybody else think this looks exactly like Mutual Combat? If it is, can you inject 9mm HST into a fistfight before the other guy even punches you? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1rwY4M1pK2U/mqdefault.jpg He asked the guy to leave his property multiple times. What are the duty to retreat laws like in Texas? I mean, trying to kick an intruder out of your house looks like "mutual combat" as well. From my moral standpoint, the shooter wasn't in the right. Legally? Tough call on this one, his house, his property, asked kindly multiple times, could be a violent or threatening history for all I know from the "victim". Neither were wrong, neither were right, so there is your mutual part. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:46:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, she's a State District Judge too, appointed by none other than Gov. Abbott himself to fill a vacancy left by the death of the elected judge. This whole thing is like a fucking made for tv movie. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This is actually so typical, almost a SOP I submit she used the live-in boyfriend to terminate her ex, used him like a pawn. Now *he* will get a sentence. She got rid of two men in one move. Utterly brilliant, and nobody looks at her as a grand orchestrator of things. Nope, she is in the shadows. But yeah, women excel at manipulation. What business did that man have in the situation, it wasn't his child. It was between her and her ex. This is so insane on so many levels. And just proves how retarded men can be when situation turns explosive. Legal issues aside, I can totally understand the victim here. Oh, she's a State District Judge too, appointed by none other than Gov. Abbott himself to fill a vacancy left by the death of the elected judge. This whole thing is like a fucking made for tv movie. Bio-mom is not the judge. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:48:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He asked the guy to leave his property multiple times. What are the duty to retreat laws like in Texas? I mean, trying to kick an intruder out of your house looks like "mutual combat" as well. From my moral standpoint, the shooter wasn't in the right. Legally? Tough call on this one, his house, his property, asked kindly multiple times, could be a violent or threatening history for all I know from the "victim". Neither were wrong, neither were right, so there is your mutual part. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:48:11 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anybody else think this looks exactly like Mutual Combat? If it is, can you inject 9mm HST into a fistfight before the other guy even punches you? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1rwY4M1pK2U/mqdefault.jpg That's a cool tree fort. I like how mom doesn't look up from her phone. I'm mostly shocked this didn't occur in a trailer park. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:49:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You shouldn't confuse trespassing with burglary. You can't use deadly force to stop trespassing but you can for burglary. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He asked the guy to leave his property multiple times. What are the duty to retreat laws like in Texas? I mean, trying to kick an intruder out of your house looks like "mutual combat" as well. From my moral standpoint, the shooter wasn't in the right. Legally? Tough call on this one, his house, his property, asked kindly multiple times, could be a violent or threatening history for all I know from the "victim". Neither were wrong, neither were right, so there is your mutual part. Is that Texas law? It's not like that here. That's why I asked what are the duty to retreat laws like. It has nothing to do with "burglary" here. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:52:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that Texas law? It's not like that here. That's why I asked what are the duty to retreat laws like. It has nothing to do with "burglary" here. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:53:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, it is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is that Texas law? It's not like that here. That's why I asked what are the duty to retreat laws like. It has nothing to do with "burglary" here. So you can't defend yourself from someone that is in your house/on your property/in your presence that is violent? Only when they are attempting or in the crime of stealing possessions? That might be the most screwed up self defense law that I've ever heard. Can any other Texans confirm this? |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:55:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dead guy Chad goes to pick up his son at Kyle's house. Chad believes his son is there because his ex wife Christina is having an affair with Kyle. Kyle is currently married to Anne-Marie, a judge (and not present). Chad's current wife Jennifer filmed the potato video. Is that right? |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:55:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dead guy Chad goes to pick up his son at Kyle’s house. Chad believes his son is there because his ex wife Christina is having an affair with Kyle. Kyle is currently married to Anne-Marie, a judge (and not present). Chad’s current wife Jennifer filmed the potato video. Is that right? Yes. Supposedly Jennifer's son was in the vehicle as well watching the shit show go down as well. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:56:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you can't defend yourself from someone that is in your house/on your property/in your presence that is violent? Only when they are attempting or in the crime of stealing possessions? That might be the most screwed up self defense law that I've ever heard. Can any other Texans confirm this? |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:57:43 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not what I wrote at all. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So you can't defend yourself from someone that is in your house/on your property/in your presence that is violent? Only when they are attempting or in the crime of stealing possessions? That might be the most screwed up self defense law that I've ever heard. Can any other Texans confirm this? So Texas duty to retreat laws only have to do with burglary? I'm confused as to how you wrote it any differently. Just clarify it, we don't all live in Texas. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 3:58:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do so many people here equate displaying a gun as an act of aggression? Does someone open carrying send you into fight or flight mode? Holding a gun is not an act of aggression. Eta: I’m not calling anyone “Bingers”, but I understand the reference. How can members of a gun forum be so obtuse? There's a bit of a difference between openly carrying a gun, and after a mild civil conflict arises retrieving one from inside. If I were having an argument with folks and someone retrieved a gun you can bet your ass I'd be in fight or flight mode. I'd tend toward flight. Some midget grabbing a PCC from inside, posturing, and yelling is aggressive. Maybe he was legally justified in doing so to run off the trespasser depending on state law, but it was a stupid way to handle the situation at hand. Then Chad went turbo moron and didn't just do what the guy with the gun said and you've got a child without a father. Perhaps the penalties offset, but there's a lot of retardation to go around. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:06:38 PM EDT
[#18]
That dude is going to prison.
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:06:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a bit of a difference between openly carrying a gun, and after a mild civil conflict arises retrieving one from inside. If I were having an argument with folks and someone retrieved a gun you can bet your ass I'd be in fight or flight mode. I'd tend toward flight. Some midget grabbing a PCC from inside, posturing, and yelling is aggressive. Maybe he was legally justified in doing so to run off the trespasser depending on state law, but it was a stupid way to handle the situation at hand. Then Chad went turbo moron and didn't just do what the guy with the gun said and you've got a child without a father. Perhaps the penalties offset, but there's a lot of retardation to go around. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why do so many people here equate displaying a gun as an act of aggression? Does someone open carrying send you into fight or flight mode? Holding a gun is not an act of aggression. Eta: I’m not calling anyone “Bingers”, but I understand the reference. How can members of a gun forum be so obtuse? There's a bit of a difference between openly carrying a gun, and after a mild civil conflict arises retrieving one from inside. If I were having an argument with folks and someone retrieved a gun you can bet your ass I'd be in fight or flight mode. I'd tend toward flight. Some midget grabbing a PCC from inside, posturing, and yelling is aggressive. Maybe he was legally justified in doing so to run off the trespasser depending on state law, but it was a stupid way to handle the situation at hand. Then Chad went turbo moron and didn't just do what the guy with the gun said and you've got a child without a father. Perhaps the penalties offset, but there's a lot of retardation to go around. Now go ask or research what encounters LEO have the most drastic outcomes with. You can't have it both ways. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:07:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a bit of a difference between openly carrying a gun, and after a mild civil conflict arises retrieving one from inside. If I were having an argument with folks and someone retrieved a gun you can bet your ass I'd be in fight or flight mode. I'd tend toward flight. Some midget grabbing a PCC from inside, posturing, and yelling is aggressive. Maybe he was legally justified in doing so to run off the trespasser depending on state law, but it was a stupid way to handle the situation at hand. Then Chad went turbo moron and didn't just do what the guy with the gun said and you've got a child without a father. Perhaps the penalties offset, but there's a lot of retardation to go around. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why do so many people here equate displaying a gun as an act of aggression? Does someone open carrying send you into fight or flight mode? Holding a gun is not an act of aggression. Eta: I’m not calling anyone “Bingers”, but I understand the reference. How can members of a gun forum be so obtuse? There's a bit of a difference between openly carrying a gun, and after a mild civil conflict arises retrieving one from inside. If I were having an argument with folks and someone retrieved a gun you can bet your ass I'd be in fight or flight mode. I'd tend toward flight. Some midget grabbing a PCC from inside, posturing, and yelling is aggressive. Maybe he was legally justified in doing so to run off the trespasser depending on state law, but it was a stupid way to handle the situation at hand. Then Chad went turbo moron and didn't just do what the guy with the gun said and you've got a child without a father. Perhaps the penalties offset, but there's a lot of retardation to go around. Who had a legal right to be there? Shooter did. Dead guy did not. Who threatened whom first? Dead guy did, shooter didn't. Who has the legal right to be there and the right to defend themselves and their property? Not the dead guy. Honestly, this is pretty straightforward. Hence why shooter wasn't arrested on scene. Who knows, another DA will probably be pressured to bring it to a grand jury, and who the fuck knows how a dozen randos will rule, but from the basic tenets of self defense and castle doctrine, there's no crime. Dead guy fucked around and found out. Note the basic concept that we keep seeing time and time again: don't try to disarm someone who is carrying a long gun, because it's literally one of the fastest known ways to win the room temperature challenge known to man. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:09:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Shooter told dead guy to leave.
Dead guy refused*. <This is the escalation. I can't hear what was said*, but the shooter decided to arm himself. Shooter returns armed and told dead guy to leave again. <He kept gun pointed down, didn't wave it around yelling I'll kill you.... Dead guy moves into shooters space, starts physical posturing, threatens to take and use gun.<This action may prove shooters decision to arm himself sensible, refusal* to leave and history. Disparity of force. Dead guy "reaches for gun" at 1:11\1:12, this leads to the first shot. Dead guy then grabs gun, flings shooter into yard*. Shooter regains footing, shoots. Was shooter supposed to wait for dead to to get back in his space and reach for the gun again? Was dead guy just standing in place or going into house? Was wife lady in white outside, or inside house? |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:12:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Had a good friend tell me I come across as an asshole. To anyone I may have offended I apologize folks. I’m bowing out of this thread, and wish everyone a very happy Thanksgiving to you and your families
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:14:32 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Had a good friend tell me I come across as an asshole. To anyone I may have offended I apologize folks. I’m bowing out of this thread, and wish everyone a very happy Thanksgiving to you and your families I don't see anything that makes you come across as an asshole in this thread. Your are stating relevant facts as known to the situation and it seems as though your "friend" simply disagrees with your stance, if it revolves around this thread. I'd bow out of that friendship before this thread. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:15:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Supposedly Jennifer's son was in the vehicle as well watching the shit show go down as well. Who is the woman filming from the house? |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:15:43 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dead guy FAFOd. Best not to FA when the other guy has a gun. This is why you have cops present during child exchanges. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:15:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He asked the guy to leave his property multiple times. What are the duty to retreat laws like in Texas? I mean, trying to kick an intruder out of your house looks like "mutual combat" as well. From my moral standpoint, the shooter wasn't in the right. Legally? Tough call on this one, his house, his property, asked kindly multiple times, could be a violent or threatening history for all I know from the "victim". Neither were wrong, neither were right, so there is your mutual part. Generally - you can't shoot someone for simple tresspass. That is a Call the Cops & let them handle it affair. Texas Stand Your Ground Laws are pretty much against attackers and you can lose that right if you are considered an aggressor. When the two idiots decided to get face to face to have a Dick Measuring Contest, and Rifle Guy went inside to get his gun - he could / should have called police at that point. He wasn't in danger - I believe much will be made of him returning back outside with that rifle to be a Macho Man (Taking the Law into his own hands). His firing that "warning shot" at the feet of Dead Guy was a Clear Escalation to Deadly Conduct and Aggravated Assault w/a Deadly Weapon. Loud guy hadn't physically stuck him or lady, nor had stolen any property. Going to be VERY Expensive for him to mount a criminal defense so at best he's out 6 figures for a trial, at worst a long prison sentence and no more guns ever. Should have called the girl to go inside, shut the door & called the cops. But hindsite 20 / 20 and all that... BIGGER_HAMMER  |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:16:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who is the woman filming from the house? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes. Supposedly Jennifer's son was in the vehicle as well watching the shit show go down as well. Who is the woman filming from the house? I read somewhere that the home was also Kyle’s business. Employee? |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:17:26 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Had a good friend tell me I come across as an asshole. To anyone I may have offended I apologize folks. I’m bowing out of this thread, and wish everyone a very happy Thanksgiving to you and your families I liked your old avatar. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:19:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Generally - you can't shoot someone for simple tresspass. That is a Call the Cops & let them handle it affair. Texas Stand Your Ground Laws are pretty much against attackers and you can lose that right if you are considered an aggressor. When the two idiots decided to get face to face to have a Dick Measuring Contest, and Rifle Guy went inside to get his gun - he could / should have called police at that point. He wasn't in danger - I believe much will be made of him returning back outside with that rifle to be a Macho Man (Taking the Law into his own hands). His firing that "warning shot" at the feet of Dead Guy was a Clear Escalation to Deadly Conduct and Aggravated Assault w/a Deadly Weapon. Loud guy hadn't physically stuck him or lady, nor had stolen any property. Going to be VERY Expensive for him to mount a criminal defense so at best he's out 6 figures for a trial, at worst a long prison sentence and no more guns ever. Should have called the girl to go inside, shut the door & called the cops. But hindsite 20 / 20 and all that... BIGGER_HAMMER Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He asked the guy to leave his property multiple times. What are the duty to retreat laws like in Texas? I mean, trying to kick an intruder out of your house looks like "mutual combat" as well. From my moral standpoint, the shooter wasn't in the right. Legally? Tough call on this one, his house, his property, asked kindly multiple times, could be a violent or threatening history for all I know from the "victim". Neither were wrong, neither were right, so there is your mutual part. Generally - you can't shoot someone for simple tresspass. That is a Call the Cops & let them handle it affair. Texas Stand Your Ground Laws are pretty much against attackers and you can lose that right if you are considered an aggressor. When the two idiots decided to get face to face to have a Dick Measuring Contest, and Rifle Guy went inside to get his gun - he could / should have called police at that point. He wasn't in danger - I believe much will be made of him returning back outside with that rifle to be a Macho Man (Taking the Law into his own hands). His firing that "warning shot" at the feet of Dead Guy was a Clear Escalation to Deadly Conduct and Aggravated Assault w/a Deadly Weapon. Loud guy hadn't physically stuck him or lady, nor had stolen any property. Going to be VERY Expensive for him to mount a criminal defense so at best he's out 6 figures for a trial, at worst a long prison sentence and no more guns ever. Should have called the girl to go inside, shut the door & called the cops. But hindsite 20 / 20 and all that... BIGGER_HAMMER It's a good summary, but while he went inside the ex wife/mother was still outside. I'm sure self defense applies to the defense of others as well in Texas, correct? Either way, agreed, this one is a coin flip. Both right, both wrong, tragic all around. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:21:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup, once a parent dies with kids under the age of 18, they file for survivors benefits. Pays out a portion of the decedents SSI benefits to the surviving parent for care of the kids. What do you want to bet that since "dead dad" and mom were in the middle of a divorce, that he never removed her as beneficiary of his life insurance, 401K, pension, house or other items. So she just might be rich now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nope, now she gets paid by social security until the kids are 18. No. I that true? Screw that. Yup, once a parent dies with kids under the age of 18, they file for survivors benefits. Pays out a portion of the decedents SSI benefits to the surviving parent for care of the kids. What do you want to bet that since "dead dad" and mom were in the middle of a divorce, that he never removed her as beneficiary of his life insurance, 401K, pension, house or other items. So she just might be rich now. @cat-mechanic And now the ex-wife will get a new boyfriend, with her current one going to prison and her ex-husband dead. 
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:22:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who had a legal right to be there? Shooter did. Dead guy did not. Who threatened whom first? Dead guy did, shooter didn't. Who has the legal right to be there and the right to defend themselves and their property? Not the dead guy. Honestly, this is pretty straightforward. Hence why shooter wasn't arrested on scene. Who knows, another DA will probably be pressured to bring it to a grand jury, and who the fuck knows how a dozen randos will rule, but from the basic tenets of self defense and castle doctrine, there's no crime. Dead guy fucked around and found out. Note the basic concept that we keep seeing time and time again: don't try to disarm someone who is carrying a long gun, because it's literally one of the fastest known ways to win the room temperature challenge known to man. It really is this straightforward, even if it is the latest episode of asshole collide in the trailer park Fucking scary that more than half of GD cant fathom this and is reacting to there feeling like a liberal women. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:23:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Don't think I could vote to convict.
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:23:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dead guy Chad goes to pick up his son at Kyle’s house. Chad believes his son is there because his ex wife Christina is having an affair with Kyle. Kyle is currently married to Anne-Marie, a judge (and not present). Chad’s current wife Jennifer filmed the potato video. Is that right? If true that presents a new twist. Now you have a non custodian interfering with parental custody…..in Florida that’s a crime. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:23:57 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He asked the guy to leave his property multiple times. What are the duty to retreat laws like in Texas? I mean, trying to kick an intruder out of your house looks like "mutual combat" as well. From my moral standpoint, the shooter wasn't in the right. Legally? Tough call on this one, his house, his property, asked kindly multiple times, could be a violent or threatening history for all I know from the "victim". Neither were wrong, neither were right, so there is your mutual part. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anybody else think this looks exactly like Mutual Combat? If it is, can you inject 9mm HST into a fistfight before the other guy even punches you? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1rwY4M1pK2U/mqdefault.jpg He asked the guy to leave his property multiple times. What are the duty to retreat laws like in Texas? I mean, trying to kick an intruder out of your house looks like "mutual combat" as well. From my moral standpoint, the shooter wasn't in the right. Legally? Tough call on this one, his house, his property, asked kindly multiple times, could be a violent or threatening history for all I know from the "victim". Neither were wrong, neither were right, so there is your mutual part. @itstock Not a bad way of looking at it. Very murky legally when you look at the totality of the circumstances! |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:24:03 PM EDT
[#35]
You can be well within your rights and still do the wrong thing.
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:29:29 PM EDT
[#36]
When idiots collide and when emotional macho pride overtakes rational decision making.
Also a case in why men should avoid messing around with single moms and cheating wives. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:29:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You've clearly never personally been involved in a child exchange with a complete piece of shit. Dude actually seemed pretty restrained considering the stupid ass games the "mom" was playing. I had to kick the shit out of my first Ex's beau, (she married him years later), for gettin' in between nunja. He swung first & I let him take a 2nd free shot (he missed), before I retaliated. He almost forgot how long he was in the hospital and how long his jaw was wired shut. Almost. I reminded him of that the next time she beckoned him to get off the couch & take care of this when she was being pissy about returning the kids late. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:30:40 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now go ask or research what encounters LEO have the most drastic outcomes with. You can't have it both ways. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why do so many people here equate displaying a gun as an act of aggression? Does someone open carrying send you into fight or flight mode? Holding a gun is not an act of aggression. Eta: I’m not calling anyone “Bingers”, but I understand the reference. How can members of a gun forum be so obtuse? There's a bit of a difference between openly carrying a gun, and after a mild civil conflict arises retrieving one from inside. If I were having an argument with folks and someone retrieved a gun you can bet your ass I'd be in fight or flight mode. I'd tend toward flight. Some midget grabbing a PCC from inside, posturing, and yelling is aggressive. Maybe he was legally justified in doing so to run off the trespasser depending on state law, but it was a stupid way to handle the situation at hand. Then Chad went turbo moron and didn't just do what the guy with the gun said and you've got a child without a father. Perhaps the penalties offset, but there's a lot of retardation to go around. Now go ask or research what encounters LEO have the most drastic outcomes with. You can't have it both ways. Does the fact that domestic shit can go really sour mean that the prudent thing to do is ratchet up the situation instead of calling for backup and trying to cool things down? Approaching the angry father after fetching the gun was tactically retarded. He could have stood at the door or window and called the PD and waited. If dude came in, or attacked the woman, then would be the time to shoot. It's not like this was some random burglar. It was a father trying to pick up his son that he supposedly was supposed to have. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:33:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who had a legal right to be there? Shooter did. Dead guy did not. Who threatened whom first? Dead guy did, shooter didn't. Who has the legal right to be there and the right to defend themselves and their property? Not the dead guy. Honestly, this is pretty straightforward. Hence why shooter wasn't arrested on scene. Who knows, another DA will probably be pressured to bring it to a grand jury, and who the fuck knows how a dozen randos will rule, but from the basic tenets of self defense and castle doctrine, there's no crime. Dead guy fucked around and found out. Note the basic concept that we keep seeing time and time again: don't try to disarm someone who is carrying a long gun, because it's literally one of the fastest known ways to win the room temperature challenge known to man. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why do so many people here equate displaying a gun as an act of aggression? Does someone open carrying send you into fight or flight mode? Holding a gun is not an act of aggression. Eta: I’m not calling anyone “Bingers”, but I understand the reference. How can members of a gun forum be so obtuse? There's a bit of a difference between openly carrying a gun, and after a mild civil conflict arises retrieving one from inside. If I were having an argument with folks and someone retrieved a gun you can bet your ass I'd be in fight or flight mode. I'd tend toward flight. Some midget grabbing a PCC from inside, posturing, and yelling is aggressive. Maybe he was legally justified in doing so to run off the trespasser depending on state law, but it was a stupid way to handle the situation at hand. Then Chad went turbo moron and didn't just do what the guy with the gun said and you've got a child without a father. Perhaps the penalties offset, but there's a lot of retardation to go around. Who had a legal right to be there? Shooter did. Dead guy did not. Who threatened whom first? Dead guy did, shooter didn't. Who has the legal right to be there and the right to defend themselves and their property? Not the dead guy. Honestly, this is pretty straightforward. Hence why shooter wasn't arrested on scene. Who knows, another DA will probably be pressured to bring it to a grand jury, and who the fuck knows how a dozen randos will rule, but from the basic tenets of self defense and castle doctrine, there's no crime. Dead guy fucked around and found out. Note the basic concept that we keep seeing time and time again: don't try to disarm someone who is carrying a long gun, because it's literally one of the fastest known ways to win the room temperature challenge known to man. I haven't argued that I think charges are appropriate. I don't know Texas law enough to give an informed opinion. The father certainly took the last retarded step by assaulting the armed man and forcing him to shoot him. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:37:12 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does the fact that domestic shit can go really sour mean that the prudent thing to do is ratchet up the situation instead of calling for backup and trying to cool things down? Approaching the angry father after fetching the gun was tactically retarded. He could have stood at the door or window and called the PD and waited. If dude came in, or attacked the woman, then would be the time to shoot. It's not like this was some random burglar. It was a father trying to pick up his son that he supposedly was supposed to have. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why do so many people here equate displaying a gun as an act of aggression? Does someone open carrying send you into fight or flight mode? Holding a gun is not an act of aggression. Eta: I’m not calling anyone “Bingers”, but I understand the reference. How can members of a gun forum be so obtuse? There's a bit of a difference between openly carrying a gun, and after a mild civil conflict arises retrieving one from inside. If I were having an argument with folks and someone retrieved a gun you can bet your ass I'd be in fight or flight mode. I'd tend toward flight. Some midget grabbing a PCC from inside, posturing, and yelling is aggressive. Maybe he was legally justified in doing so to run off the trespasser depending on state law, but it was a stupid way to handle the situation at hand. Then Chad went turbo moron and didn't just do what the guy with the gun said and you've got a child without a father. Perhaps the penalties offset, but there's a lot of retardation to go around. Now go ask or research what encounters LEO have the most drastic outcomes with. You can't have it both ways. Does the fact that domestic shit can go really sour mean that the prudent thing to do is ratchet up the situation instead of calling for backup and trying to cool things down? Approaching the angry father after fetching the gun was tactically retarded. He could have stood at the door or window and called the PD and waited. If dude came in, or attacked the woman, then would be the time to shoot. It's not like this was some random burglar. It was a father trying to pick up his son that he supposedly was supposed to have. I don't disagree with the gist of what you are saying, but right/wrong does not equal legal/illegal. The father, rightfully so, was acting irrational, angry, confrontational, and violent. But where did it occur? Who pushed who? I mean, the "property owner" even fired the dreaded warning shot to which the father just went on attack. It is REALLY tough to take sides on this one. We simply have a tragic event. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:38:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He asked the guy to leave his property multiple times. What are the duty to retreat laws like in Texas? I mean, trying to kick an intruder out of your house looks like "mutual combat" as well. From my moral standpoint, the shooter wasn't in the right. Legally? Tough call on this one, his house, his property, asked kindly multiple times, could be a violent or threatening history for all I know from the "victim". Neither were wrong, neither were right, so there is your mutual part. Quoted: Generally - you can't shoot someone for simple tresspass. That is a Call the Cops & let them handle it affair. Texas Stand Your Ground Laws are pretty much against attackers and you can lose that right if you are considered an aggressor. When the two idiots decided to get face to face to have a Dick Measuring Contest, and Rifle Guy went inside to get his gun - he could / should have called police at that point. He wasn't in danger - I believe much will be made of him returning back outside with that rifle to be a Macho Man (Taking the Law into his own hands). His firing that "warning shot" at the feet of Dead Guy was a Clear Escalation to Deadly Conduct and Aggravated Assault w/a Deadly Weapon. Loud guy hadn't physically stuck him or lady, nor had stolen any property. Going to be VERY Expensive for him to mount a criminal defense so at best he's out 6 figures for a trial, at worst a long prison sentence and no more guns ever. Should have called the girl to go inside, shut the door & called the cops. But hindsite 20 / 20 and all that... BIGGER_HAMMER Quoted: It's a good summary, but while he went inside the ex wife/mother was still outside. I'm sure self defense applies to the defense of others as well in Texas, correct? Either way, agreed, this one is a coin flip. Both right, both wrong, tragic all around. Tragic all around is right. However - there was no evidence (from either of the tapes) at all that "Mad Dad" in any way touched, or threatened physical harm to the lady outside. In Hindsite, Kyle should have said, "Woman go inside house & call 9-1-1". Kyle stands at door. If "Mad Dad" tries anything physical then - game on - but until then - it is soley a matter for the Police to remove a Trespasser & give him warning never to return. That would have been a winning strategy that would have covered his bases. If a unsettled person tries to force their way into your home where a woman is & while knowing you've called 9-1-1, then I don't think anyone could convict. @itstock |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:39:57 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On the one hand, Shooter escalated an ordinary argument by unnecessarily bringing a gun into the situation. Dead guy tried to call his bluff. Shooter wasn’t bluffing. Shooter is a murderer. On the other hand, Shooter told dead guy to get off his property. He didn’t, so shooter brought out a gun. Shooter didn’t point it at dead guy till dead guy got a little physical. Shooter then shoots dead guy. I’m actually gonna go with shooter on this one. Get the fuck off my property and sue me later if you want. But get the fuck off my property when you are uninvited or become uninvited. And definitely don’t touch me on my property when I’ve told you to leave my property. I reserve the right to change my stance as more information becomes available. +1 |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:41:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tragic all around is right. However - there was no evidence (from either of the tapes) at all that "Mad Dad" in any way touched, or threatened physical harm to the lady outside. In Hindsite, Kyle should have said, "Woman go inside house & call 9-1-1". Kyle stands at door. If "Mad Dad" tries anything physical then - game on - but until then - it is soley a matter for the Police to remove a Trespasser & give him warning never to return. That would have been a winning strategy that would have covered his bases. If a person tries to force their way into your home where a woman is & they know you've called 9-1-1 then I don't think anyone would convict. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He asked the guy to leave his property multiple times. What are the duty to retreat laws like in Texas? I mean, trying to kick an intruder out of your house looks like "mutual combat" as well. From my moral standpoint, the shooter wasn't in the right. Legally? Tough call on this one, his house, his property, asked kindly multiple times, could be a violent or threatening history for all I know from the "victim". Neither were wrong, neither were right, so there is your mutual part. Quoted: Generally - you can't shoot someone for simple tresspass. That is a Call the Cops & let them handle it affair. Texas Stand Your Ground Laws are pretty much against attackers and you can lose that right if you are considered an aggressor. When the two idiots decided to get face to face to have a Dick Measuring Contest, and Rifle Guy went inside to get his gun - he could / should have called police at that point. He wasn't in danger - I believe much will be made of him returning back outside with that rifle to be a Macho Man (Taking the Law into his own hands). His firing that "warning shot" at the feet of Dead Guy was a Clear Escalation to Deadly Conduct and Aggravated Assault w/a Deadly Weapon. Loud guy hadn't physically stuck him or lady, nor had stolen any property. Going to be VERY Expensive for him to mount a criminal defense so at best he's out 6 figures for a trial, at worst a long prison sentence and no more guns ever. Should have called the girl to go inside, shut the door & called the cops. But hindsite 20 / 20 and all that... BIGGER_HAMMER Quoted: It's a good summary, but while he went inside the ex wife/mother was still outside. I'm sure self defense applies to the defense of others as well in Texas, correct? Either way, agreed, this one is a coin flip. Both right, both wrong, tragic all around. Tragic all around is right. However - there was no evidence (from either of the tapes) at all that "Mad Dad" in any way touched, or threatened physical harm to the lady outside. In Hindsite, Kyle should have said, "Woman go inside house & call 9-1-1". Kyle stands at door. If "Mad Dad" tries anything physical then - game on - but until then - it is soley a matter for the Police to remove a Trespasser & give him warning never to return. That would have been a winning strategy that would have covered his bases. If a person tries to force their way into your home where a woman is & they know you've called 9-1-1 then I don't think anyone would convict. At any rate, I'm not sure the what if's typically play out in convictions. We have what happened, and as said ,hindsight is always 20/20. In true hindsight, "Kyle" should not have been involved in the situation at all. I think it escalated past trespass when they bumped chests the first time. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:41:12 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even by Texas standards, this looks really really bad for the shooter. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looks like a good shoot. The shooter appeared to be in fear for his life and the "victim" stood in his path of retreat back into his residence. I don't see how this could have played out any differently. Even by Texas standards, this looks really really bad for the shooter. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:42:22 PM EDT
[#45]
Opinion: When assholes collide
Reality: shooter won’t be charged cause, Texas law. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:44:11 PM EDT
[#46]
Legally speaking, I do believe that this is another important case to watch, if it comes to that. The KR trial was extremely interesting as it was a politically motivated case against a clear case of self defense, where as this one is on very neutral legal grounds. If the duty to retreat exists in TX, then it will be clear. If not, then it becomes a situation of escalation, which cause and effect illustrates, unfortunately, the father was the cause.
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:44:17 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At any rate, I'm not sure the what if's typically play out in convictions. We have what happened, and as said ,hindsight is always 20/20. In true hindsight, "Kyle" should not have been involved in the situation at all. I think it escalated past trespass when they bumped chests the first time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: He asked the guy to leave his property multiple times. What are the duty to retreat laws like in Texas? I mean, trying to kick an intruder out of your house looks like "mutual combat" as well. From my moral standpoint, the shooter wasn't in the right. Legally? Tough call on this one, his house, his property, asked kindly multiple times, could be a violent or threatening history for all I know from the "victim". Neither were wrong, neither were right, so there is your mutual part. Quoted: Generally - you can't shoot someone for simple tresspass. That is a Call the Cops & let them handle it affair. Texas Stand Your Ground Laws are pretty much against attackers and you can lose that right if you are considered an aggressor. When the two idiots decided to get face to face to have a Dick Measuring Contest, and Rifle Guy went inside to get his gun - he could / should have called police at that point. He wasn't in danger - I believe much will be made of him returning back outside with that rifle to be a Macho Man (Taking the Law into his own hands). His firing that "warning shot" at the feet of Dead Guy was a Clear Escalation to Deadly Conduct and Aggravated Assault w/a Deadly Weapon. Loud guy hadn't physically stuck him or lady, nor had stolen any property. Going to be VERY Expensive for him to mount a criminal defense so at best he's out 6 figures for a trial, at worst a long prison sentence and no more guns ever. Should have called the girl to go inside, shut the door & called the cops. But hindsite 20 / 20 and all that... BIGGER_HAMMER Quoted: It's a good summary, but while he went inside the ex wife/mother was still outside. I'm sure self defense applies to the defense of others as well in Texas, correct? Either way, agreed, this one is a coin flip. Both right, both wrong, tragic all around. Tragic all around is right. However - there was no evidence (from either of the tapes) at all that "Mad Dad" in any way touched, or threatened physical harm to the lady outside. In Hindsite, Kyle should have said, "Woman go inside house & call 9-1-1". Kyle stands at door. If "Mad Dad" tries anything physical then - game on - but until then - it is soley a matter for the Police to remove a Trespasser & give him warning never to return. That would have been a winning strategy that would have covered his bases. If a person tries to force their way into your home where a woman is & they know you've called 9-1-1 then I don't think anyone would convict. At any rate, I'm not sure the what if's typically play out in convictions. We have what happened, and as said ,hindsight is always 20/20. In true hindsight, "Kyle" should not have been involved in the situation at all. I think it escalated past trespass when they bumped chests the first time. Idiots all around on that one. I think they both were up for the Chest bump AKA Prairie Chicken I'm more manly than You thing... When you see idiots at that phase of things - logic & reason have fled the scene. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:45:17 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't disagree with the gist of what you are saying, but right/wrong does not equal legal/illegal. The father, rightfully so, was acting irrational, angry, confrontational, and violent. But where did it occur? Who pushed who? I mean, the "property owner" even fired the dreaded warning shot to which the father just went on attack. It is REALLY tough to take sides on this one. We simply have a tragic event. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why do so many people here equate displaying a gun as an act of aggression? Does someone open carrying send you into fight or flight mode? Holding a gun is not an act of aggression. Eta: I’m not calling anyone “Bingers”, but I understand the reference. How can members of a gun forum be so obtuse? There's a bit of a difference between openly carrying a gun, and after a mild civil conflict arises retrieving one from inside. If I were having an argument with folks and someone retrieved a gun you can bet your ass I'd be in fight or flight mode. I'd tend toward flight. Some midget grabbing a PCC from inside, posturing, and yelling is aggressive. Maybe he was legally justified in doing so to run off the trespasser depending on state law, but it was a stupid way to handle the situation at hand. Then Chad went turbo moron and didn't just do what the guy with the gun said and you've got a child without a father. Perhaps the penalties offset, but there's a lot of retardation to go around. Now go ask or research what encounters LEO have the most drastic outcomes with. You can't have it both ways. Does the fact that domestic shit can go really sour mean that the prudent thing to do is ratchet up the situation instead of calling for backup and trying to cool things down? Approaching the angry father after fetching the gun was tactically retarded. He could have stood at the door or window and called the PD and waited. If dude came in, or attacked the woman, then would be the time to shoot. It's not like this was some random burglar. It was a father trying to pick up his son that he supposedly was supposed to have. I don't disagree with the gist of what you are saying, but right/wrong does not equal legal/illegal. The father, rightfully so, was acting irrational, angry, confrontational, and violent. But where did it occur? Who pushed who? I mean, the "property owner" even fired the dreaded warning shot to which the father just went on attack. It is REALLY tough to take sides on this one. We simply have a tragic event. Absolutely, I think both of them allowed their egos and anger get ahead of them and turn a bad situation into a horrible one for both. I don't know what if any charges are appropriate, but Kyle wouldn't have to worry about that either if he'd just stayed inside and waited. Chad basically killed himself by proxy by attacking the armed guy. Can't see your son when you're dead. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:49:06 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're all calm as shit for a guy just being murdered. "I have it on video, you did it, not him." Yeah that's great but you don't care the guy you're with is now drt? No shit, I don't think she fully processed what had happened. lol Gonna be an interesting case non the less. Also, I don't know how you end up scoring points for killing your wife's ex right in front of her, and your stepchild's father. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 4:49:07 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Legally speaking, I do believe that this is another important case to watch, if it comes to that. The KR trial was extremely interesting as it was a politically motivated case against a clear case of self defense, where as this one is on very neutral legal grounds. If the duty to retreat exists in TX, then it will be clear. If not, then it becomes a situation of escalation, which cause and effect illustrates, unfortunately, the father was the cause. In Texas, you no longer have a duty to retreat if lawfully doing lawful things. HOWEVER - sometimes True Wisdom is doing more than the minimum required to ensure you cover your bases. I think much of the case is Kyle introducing his rifle and the first Shot (which is Deadly Force used in "Deadly Conduct" & "Aggravated Assault w/ a deadly weapon" If Rage Dad had any brains, he's have stepped away - called 9-1-1 and Kyle would be on his way to jail for two felonies. To be clear There are NO "Innocent WARNING SHOTS" - once you fire - Things are ON & the Cops ARE involved. |
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