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Posted: 12/4/2021 5:03:22 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Simple answer yes I'd have an extremely heightened desire to unass the area. The theme of this argument however from the other side that you are chiming in on is that he should have expected to have to shoot him just because he got the gun, which comprises him expecting this bizarre reaction that we see in the video. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You're not living in reality if you think that someone going to get a gun shouldn't provoke a reasonable non violent person. It's a provocative action in itself. Arguing that it isn't is silly. It's not like Black shirt and Green shirt are buddies, and Black shirt says, "Wait right here man. I've got something cool to show you." No, they're in an argument, and Black shirt leaves to go grab a gun. He does this so he can end the argument with a display of force. He just miscalculated the effect his display would have. That's all totally separate from, is it legal for him to arm himself. Yes, it's totally legal to arm oneself on their own property. However, just because it's legal doesn't mean the way he did it was smart. How many times have innocent homeowners been shot through their front doors by cops because they answered the door with a firearm in hand? I know we've done a few of those. ETA: And all that is separate from was Green shirt within his rights to charge Black shirt. Again, the answer is no. He should have left. I honestly do not know one single person who when confronted with a gun unarmed would charge into it like that over a domestic issue. Not referring to people willing to be a real hero against an active shooter, or in war etc.. I don't think you do either. If I knew such a person, I would unknow them and distance my self from them. I sure as hell wouldn't consider them reasonable and non-violent ever again. Objectively. That's not what I typed. I said it's a provocative action. I didn't say people would charge you and attempt to take your firearm. You're right. People I know wouldn't charge a drawn firearm. That seems like a moot point though because people I know wouldn't pull a firearm on another party in a domestic dispute. I can say with absolute certainty, if I had an acquaintance that drew down on me over a disagreement, then I would leave and they wouldn't be my acquaintance anymore. I also wouldn't consider them reasonable and non-violent because reasonable and non-violent people don't use firearms to settle disagreements. Putting all that aside, you're saying that if you were in an argument with someone, and they left and came back with a firearm as a means to end the argument, that you wouldn't have any heightened response to it? I seriously doubt that, unless you're really really used to having firearms used to end arguments. The theme of this argument however from the other side that you are chiming in on is that he should have expected to have to shoot him just because he got the gun, which comprises him expecting this bizarre reaction that we see in the video. I don't think Black shirt should have expected to have to shoot Green shirt. I do think Black shirt should have at least thought through what happens when Green shirt doesn't comply with a lawful command to vacate the premises backed up by a firearm. I know that if it's me walking out on that porch with a rifle, then I've mentally prepared myself for possibly having to hold this person at gun point until the cops show up or possibly having to shoot them when they try to fight me. I'm hoping and praying that the person just leaves as ordered. I also know that if it's me, I don't walk out on the porch with a rifle because I'm not willing to risk having to kill someone over a nonviolent domestic situation that doesn't involve me. I especially don't walk out on the porch with a rifle if the nonviolent domestic situation involves my girlfriend, her ex husband, and their kids, and it's because my girlfriend is interfering with a child custody order. Obviously Black shirt's mental calculus was different. |
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Posted: 12/4/2021 5:06:46 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not true. He made physical contact with black shirt guy and threatened to do him serious bodily harm. That is all that matters in this case. All the “dog ate my homework” arguments don’t come into play. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No he wasn’t attacked. He was confronted. He was yelled at. He wasn’t attacked. Not true. He made physical contact with black shirt guy and threatened to do him serious bodily harm. That is all that matters in this case. All the “dog ate my homework” arguments don’t come into play. Chest bumping isn’t an attack and cause for use of deadly force no matter how many of you guys claim it. You embarrass yourselves making that argument. |
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Posted: 12/4/2021 5:34:20 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. People are either purposefully, or are too arrogant, to acknowledge how black shirt leaving an argument and returning to it with a gun escalated the situation. Throwing up lines about Rittenhouse, how you can legally be armed, etc is simple excuse making and a refusal to see how introducing a gun into a situation where a gun wasnt needed can, and in this case did, lead to life altering circumstances that are easily avoidable. Outside of legalities, how does the shooter expect to maintain a relationship with the kids? He shot their father, and there were lots of other logical alternatives that could have been used. And how does mom expect to maintain a relationship with the kids, when her boyfriend shot and killed dad? People are so fucking self centered and stupid! |
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Posted: 12/4/2021 6:28:51 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Chest bumping isn’t an attack and cause for use of deadly force no matter how many of you guys claim it. You embarrass yourselves making that argument. If memory serves, black shirt re-emerged with the rifle, standing on the porch and demanding that green shirt leave. Green shirt then advances on black shirt and attempted to take the rifle, twice. Ignoring that fact doesn’t make it go away. Green shirts actions got him killed, IMO. It’s a sordid mess to be certain, but green shirts aggressive actions prompted his own demise. |
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Posted: 12/4/2021 9:53:25 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If memory serves, black shirt re-emerged with the rifle, standing on the porch and demanding that green shirt leave. Green shirt then advances on black shirt and attempted to take the rifle, twice. Playing Devil's Asshole here - If there is a rule byva judge dictating that the custodial transfer occur at that place and by a certain time, then what? |
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Posted: 12/4/2021 9:15:49 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would love to see ex wife and anyone who helped keep the kid from dad charged with contempt of court. Yes, criminal contempt, at least for those privy to the terms of the court order. This whole bit of "If they violate the order, pay your lawyer to tell us, and the violator will be free to keep violating for the next 6-12 months while you wait for us to schedule a hearing, and when the hearing comes around, if we think they violated our order we'll order them to quit violating our order" is totally unacceptable. And if you're complaining about a woman, you'll be lucky if the court takes action the 2nd time you bring it up, meanwhile your rights and your child's rights have been violated for a year or two by your ex. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 1:09:16 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Playing Devil's Asshole here - If there is a rule by a judge dictating that the custodial transfer occur at that place and by a certain time, then what? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If memory serves, black shirt re-emerged with the rifle, standing on the porch and demanding that green shirt leave. Green shirt then advances on black shirt and attempted to take the rifle, twice. Playing Devil's Asshole here - If there is a rule by a judge dictating that the custodial transfer occur at that place and by a certain time, then what? Once they tell the father the child is not there, and I believe they did, the father should have left when told to do so. Even if they refused to transfer the child, once father has been told to leave the premises, he should have left, or at least called the police to make a report. What he should NOT have done is advance onto the porch to confront the homeowner who is armed and telling him to leave. What he should not have done was attempt to disarm the homeowner. Remember, the homeowner did NOT advance on him, he stood his ground. It went from 0-100 in a matter of seconds once the father tried to disarm the homeowner, on his own property. That is what got him killed. Was the homeowner justified in his actions by using deadly force...? Well, Texas laws indicate he was. Finding 12 jurors in west Texas that disagree with that will be a tall order, imo. * I am not an attorney *... just some random goober giving my opinion based on what I saw and what I've read. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 1:22:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, criminal contempt, at least for those privy to the terms of the court order. This whole bit of "If they violate the order, pay your lawyer to tell us, and the violator will be free to keep violating for the next 6-12 months while you wait for us to schedule a hearing, and when the hearing comes around, if we think they violated our order we'll order them to quit violating our order" is totally unacceptable. And if you're complaining about a woman, you'll be lucky if the court takes action the 2nd time you bring it up, meanwhile your rights and your child's rights have been violated for a year or two by your ex. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I would love to see ex wife and anyone who helped keep the kid from dad charged with contempt of court. Yes, criminal contempt, at least for those privy to the terms of the court order. This whole bit of "If they violate the order, pay your lawyer to tell us, and the violator will be free to keep violating for the next 6-12 months while you wait for us to schedule a hearing, and when the hearing comes around, if we think they violated our order we'll order them to quit violating our order" is totally unacceptable. And if you're complaining about a woman, you'll be lucky if the court takes action the 2nd time you bring it up, meanwhile your rights and your child's rights have been violated for a year or two by your ex. Better than bleeding out on the ground in the Texas sun. Ymmv. Now that kid(s?) has nobody except a pos mom. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 1:45:30 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But going in the house and getting one and returning with it does signal intent. If it was in his hands the whole time since before the argument started it would be less damning. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm just throwing this out there. I'm guessing that these two knew each other and obviously do not get along. Is it possible that even if he is now trespassing, going inside to retrieve a firearm when no deadly (or bodily harm) force is shown could be intent to commit murder? Things did not escalate until the firearm was brought into the scene. Having a gun does not prove intent. You can open carry any gun on your own property But going in the house and getting one and returning with it does signal intent. If it was in his hands the whole time since before the argument started it would be less damning. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 3:26:48 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Once they tell the father the child is not there, and I believe they did, the father should have left when told to do so. Even if they refused to transfer the child, once father has been told to leave the premises, he should have left, or at least called the police to make a report. What he should NOT have done is advance onto the porch to confront the homeowner who is armed and telling him to leave. What he should not have done was attempt to disarm the homeowner. Remember, the homeowner did NOT advance on him, he stood his ground. It went from 0-100 in a matter of seconds once the father tried to disarm the homeowner, on his own property. That is what got him killed. Was the homeowner justified in his actions by using deadly force...? Well, Texas laws indicate he was. Finding 12 jurors in west Texas that disagree with that will be a tall order, imo. * I am not an attorney *... just some random goober giving my opinion based on what I saw and what I've read. You said a lot of things - mostly in defense of the shooter, but failed to answer very my simple question. I am not interested (at this time) in ANY aspect of the altercation or the shooting. I asked a simple question about a custodial transfer. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 3:36:05 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You said a lot of things - mostly in defense of the shooter, but failed to answer very my simple question. I am not interested (at this time) in ANY aspect of the altercation or the shooting. I asked a simple question about a custodial transfer. Understood. The fact of the matter is, I simply do not know. One would/could assume that IF this location was the custodial transfer location, the father had a right to be there at whatever time they agreed on. In my mind (opinion), once the father was informed the son was not at that location, he should have left, called the police and made a report, etc. Document it all. Now, we all can imagine how emotional things like this can be, and I'm not faulting the father for getting angry about it. End of incident, right? Nope. The inflamed father's emotions led to some really confrontational decisions and we all saw the result. Some will argue they are connected, some will argue one has nothing to do with the other. I can see both of those arguments. I do know this much, it didn't need to happen. Not a single adult there attempted to de-escalate a very emotional event and multiple lives are fucked up as a result. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 3:49:40 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Understood. The fact of the matter is, I simply do not know. One would/could assume that IF this location was the custodial transfer location, the father had a right to be there at whatever time they agreed on. In my mind (opinion), once the father was informed the son was not at that location, he should have left, called the police and made a report, etc. Document it all. Now, we all can imagine how emotional things like this can be, and I'm not faulting the father for getting angry about it. End of incident, right? Nope. The inflamed father's emotions led to some really confrontational decisions and we all saw the result. Some will argue they are connected, some will argue one has nothing to do with the other. I can see both of those arguments. I do know this much, it didn't need to happen. Not a single adult there attempted to de-escalate a very emotional event and multiple lives are fucked up as a result. Cool.  Seems like neither you nor I have ever had to deal with court ordered custodial matters. I am trying to understand how those work, and if the "transfer" is at a designated time and place, or what...? |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 4:33:04 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cool. Seems like neither you nor I have ever had to deal with court ordered custodial matters. I am trying to understand how those work, and if the "transfer" is at a designated time and place, or what...? No sir, thankfully I’ve never been in that position but I’ve had friends that have been. In no way do I envy anyone that must deal with a shitty spouse that make it hard to spend time with their kids. There are those in this very thread that are still dealing with it, unfortunately. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 8:51:58 AM EDT
[#14]
Has anything new happened in this case or is this thread still just people without law degrees swinging purses at each other?
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Posted: 12/5/2021 9:07:32 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has anything new happened in this case or is this thread still just people without law degrees swinging purses at each other? Latest update : poster prior to this attempts at snarky humor, but face plants.  |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 9:46:58 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has anything new happened in this case or is this thread still just people without law degrees swinging purses at each other? No you got it. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 11:54:58 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has anything new happened in this case or is this thread still just people without law degrees swinging purses at each other? |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 6:31:11 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Better than bleeding out on the ground in the Texas sun. Ymmv. Now that kid(s?) has nobody except a pos mom. And a stepmom who's fighting an uphill battle for custody. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 10:10:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And a stepmom who's fighting an uphill battle for custody. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Better than bleeding out on the ground in the Texas sun. Ymmv. Now that kid(s?) has nobody except a pos mom. And a stepmom who's fighting an uphill battle for custody. That case was tossed already |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 12:48:33 AM EDT
[#20]
Nvm
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Posted: 12/6/2021 1:27:20 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No it wasnt and thats why black shirt is sitting in the middle of the shit storm that he is. There was 0 need to get a gun in that situation. There were zero threats of assaults or anything prior to the gun coming out of the house so why was it appropriate; just because a statute says that you can? This is where the ability to critically think and recognize appropriate actions comes into play. Sadly GD demonstrates on a damn near daily basis that the ability to do that is a foreign concept to many. A criminal trespasser that is physical larger than you is in your front yard, refusing to leave, and is raging at you and your girlfriend. It’s absolutely “appropriate” to arm oneself in such circumstances, even though no justification is needed. “Critically think”? Time for you to start. . . |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 1:44:20 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A criminal trespasser that is physical larger than you is in your front yard, refusing to leave, and is raging at you and your girlfriend. It’s absolutely “appropriate” to arm oneself in such circumstances, even though no justification is needed. “Critically think”? Time for you to start. . . "raging at you and your girlfriend"? You mean yelling about where is his kid at and threatening to haul people to court? Yeeeeaaaahhhhhhhhhhh; that certainly warrants getting a gun to protect yourself from those non-existent physical threats. 
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Posted: 12/6/2021 1:48:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would love to see ex wife and anyone who helped keep the kid from dad charged with contempt of court. That would be an awesome slap in the face. Whole thing could have been avoided if the kid was produced at 3:15 as agreed upon and ordered by the court. Simple. Before we talk about anything else, let me hear the defenders justify why the kid wasn’t in dad’s custody at 3:15pm Until,I hear a good reason I don’t want to hear your excuses. I don’t think anyone here is trying to justify or excuse that. But Read was killed for attacking a man armed with a rifle. You wouldn’t be trying to justify or excuse that, would you? ?? |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 1:49:49 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol he was attacked? Surely you at least see why everyone is laughing about the mental gymnastics being performed in this thread, don’t you? You cannot kill someone for a chest bump during an argument, even here in Texas. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Except black shirt was attacked by green shirt and lethal force was legal for self defense at that instance. The fact the shot he fired missed does not make that shot meet the defination of a "warning shot".  Lol he was attacked? Surely you at least see why everyone is laughing about the mental gymnastics being performed in this thread, don’t you? You cannot kill someone for a chest bump during an argument, even here in Texas. Why would you leave out the attempted gun grab? Doesn’t fit into your narrative, does it. . . |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 1:55:09 PM EDT
[#25]
He asked him to leave so there is that.
But then I seen he was there to get his son so there is that. I would have to hear more of the story I could swing either way right now. |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 2:18:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Outside of legalities, how does the shooter expect to maintain a relationship with the kids? He shot their father, and there were lots of other logical alternatives that could have been used. And how does mom expect to maintain a relationship with the kids, when her boyfriend shot and killed dad? People are so fucking self centered and stupid! Will it be like "The God Father"? As in when his sons grow of age, they will seek retribution against the man who murdered their father? Could make for some very interesting meal & table talk at dinner. 
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Posted: 12/6/2021 2:25:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will it be like "The God Father"? As in when his sons grow of age, they will seek retribution against the man who murdered their father? Could make for some very interesting meal & table talk at dinner. https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/45924478.jpg I'd rather get caught doing that as a 12 year old than as an 18 year old. |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 2:26:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would you leave out the attempted gun grab? Doesn’t fit into your narrative, does it. . . What attempted gun grab? When he pushed it away from his body, or when he grabbed it to avoid getting shot with it while he did the blackshirt toss? |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 2:35:41 PM EDT
[#29]
I was told if my ex played fuck fuck games with the transfer of our children to document everything. First call is to PD to have a report filed, so when family court decides to see you there is proof. Also told don’t expect anything to be done unless it happens on multiple occasions.
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Posted: 12/6/2021 2:52:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What attempted gun grab? When he pushed it away from his body, or when he grabbed it to avoid getting shot with it while he did the blackshirt toss? Chad's mistake was not grabbing the rifle barrel then pummeling Kyle until Kyle released the rifle. |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 2:59:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Chad's mistake was not grabbing the rifle barrel then pummeling Kyle until Kyle released the rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What attempted gun grab? When he pushed it away from his body, or when he grabbed it to avoid getting shot with it while he did the blackshirt toss? Chad's mistake was not grabbing the rifle barrel then pummeling Kyle until Kyle released the rifle. At least he'd be in jail then not dead |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 3:27:33 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Playing Devil's Asshole here - If there is a rule byva judge dictating that the custodial transfer occur at that place and by a certain time, then what? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If memory serves, black shirt re-emerged with the rifle, standing on the porch and demanding that green shirt leave. Green shirt then advances on black shirt and attempted to take the rifle, twice. Playing Devil's Asshole here - If there is a rule byva judge dictating that the custodial transfer occur at that place and by a certain time, then what? Then what? Seriously, you can’t fathom any other alternatives than threatening to take the property owners weapon and kill him with it? How about staying on the sidewalk, or waiting in your car on the street? ?? |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 4:24:04 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That doesn't show intent either. He got the gun after repeatedly telling Read to leave. He also didn't walk out and shoot him. Shoulda shot him when read rushed towards him Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm just throwing this out there. I'm guessing that these two knew each other and obviously do not get along. Is it possible that even if he is now trespassing, going inside to retrieve a firearm when no deadly (or bodily harm) force is shown could be intent to commit murder? Things did not escalate until the firearm was brought into the scene. Having a gun does not prove intent. You can open carry any gun on your own property But going in the house and getting one and returning with it does signal intent. If it was in his hands the whole time since before the argument started it would be less damning. That doesn't show intent either. He got the gun after repeatedly telling Read to leave. He also didn't walk out and shoot him. Shoulda shot him when read rushed towards him Should have never gotten the gun in the first place and killed another man over a custody disagreement. Whether within his rights or not, black shirt is a fucking bitch little pussy who’s killed his side piece’s son’s dad over some dumb shit. If my ex wife did this kind of dumb shit (and she has, I just didn’t take the bait) and I was on her property to pick my boys up and their stepdad shot and killed me, they’d never forgive him and their mom for the rest of their lives. I’m familiar with the laws in Texas. I’m not a sme, but I know enough to stay out of trouble and to understand when I have the right to use deadly force. This was senseless and I’d love to see black shirt go to prison for it. I admit, while I’m trying to be impartial, it could be because I feel for the dad because I’ve been in his shoes. But whether he’s legally entitled to or not, black shirt had no reason to get that gun. “Baby, get in the house please. You can stand here and yell about it all you want and you’re welcome to contact the police, but me and her are going inside. We’re done asking you to leave and we’re done arguing with you.” Both go in the house and lock the door behind them. Dial 911… “Hello there is a man on my property who is refusing to leave when I ask him to. Can you please send an officer to my home.” |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 4:34:49 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Should have never gotten the gun in the first place and killed another man over a custody disagreement. Whether within his rights or not, black shirt is a fucking bitch little pussy who’s killed his side piece’s son’s dad over some dumb shit. If my ex wife did this kind of dumb shit (and she has, I just didn’t take the bait) and I was on her property to pick my boys up and their stepdad shot and killed me, they’d never forgive him and their mom for the rest of their lives. I’m familiar with the laws in Texas. I’m not a sme, but I know enough to stay out of trouble and to understand when I have the right to use deadly force. This was senseless and I’d love to see black shirt go to prison for it. I admit, while I’m trying to be impartial, it could be because I feel for the dad because I’ve been in his shoes. But whether he’s legally entitled to or not, black shirt had no reason to get that gun. “Baby, get in the house please. You can stand here and yell about it all you want and you’re welcome to contact the police, but me and her are going inside. We’re done asking you to leave and we’re done arguing with you.” Both go in the house and lock the door behind them. Dial 911… “Hello there is a man on my property who is refusing to leave when I ask him to. Can you please send an officer to my home.” Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm just throwing this out there. I'm guessing that these two knew each other and obviously do not get along. Is it possible that even if he is now trespassing, going inside to retrieve a firearm when no deadly (or bodily harm) force is shown could be intent to commit murder? Things did not escalate until the firearm was brought into the scene. Having a gun does not prove intent. You can open carry any gun on your own property But going in the house and getting one and returning with it does signal intent. If it was in his hands the whole time since before the argument started it would be less damning. That doesn't show intent either. He got the gun after repeatedly telling Read to leave. He also didn't walk out and shoot him. Shoulda shot him when read rushed towards him Should have never gotten the gun in the first place and killed another man over a custody disagreement. Whether within his rights or not, black shirt is a fucking bitch little pussy who’s killed his side piece’s son’s dad over some dumb shit. If my ex wife did this kind of dumb shit (and she has, I just didn’t take the bait) and I was on her property to pick my boys up and their stepdad shot and killed me, they’d never forgive him and their mom for the rest of their lives. I’m familiar with the laws in Texas. I’m not a sme, but I know enough to stay out of trouble and to understand when I have the right to use deadly force. This was senseless and I’d love to see black shirt go to prison for it. I admit, while I’m trying to be impartial, it could be because I feel for the dad because I’ve been in his shoes. But whether he’s legally entitled to or not, black shirt had no reason to get that gun. “Baby, get in the house please. You can stand here and yell about it all you want and you’re welcome to contact the police, but me and her are going inside. We’re done asking you to leave and we’re done arguing with you.” Both go in the house and lock the door behind them. Dial 911… “Hello there is a man on my property who is refusing to leave when I ask him to. Can you please send an officer to my home.” Common sense would say it shoulda been handled differently, like no duh. I'd have gone inside and had the police haul green shirts ass off, he went another way and has a ton of internet commandos wanting to hang him |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 4:35:27 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would you leave out the attempted gun grab? Doesn’t fit into your narrative, does it. . . Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Except black shirt was attacked by green shirt and lethal force was legal for self defense at that instance. The fact the shot he fired missed does not make that shot meet the defination of a "warning shot". Lol he was attacked? Surely you at least see why everyone is laughing about the mental gymnastics being performed in this thread, don’t you? You cannot kill someone for a chest bump during an argument, even here in Texas. Why would you leave out the attempted gun grab? Doesn’t fit into your narrative, does it. . . What gun grab?? Are you talking about when he pushed the little man away from him, after the little man left the conversation to retrieve a gun and started shooting at him? If you're talking about that part, then that was left out because anything that green shirt did after the bullets started flying, would easily fall under the umbrella of self defense. |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 4:35:28 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then what? Seriously, you can’t fathom any other alternatives than threatening to take the property owners weapon and kill him with it? How about staying on the sidewalk, or waiting in your car on the street? ?? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If memory serves, black shirt re-emerged with the rifle, standing on the porch and demanding that green shirt leave. Green shirt then advances on black shirt and attempted to take the rifle, twice. Playing Devil's Asshole here - If there is a rule byva judge dictating that the custodial transfer occur at that place and by a certain time, then what? Then what? Seriously, you can’t fathom any other alternatives than threatening to take the property owners weapon and kill him with it? How about staying on the sidewalk, or waiting in your car on the street? ?? Keep calm and follow the law.... |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 4:36:42 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What gun grab?? Are you talking about when he pushed the little man away from him, after the little man left the conversation to retrieve a gun and started shooting at him? If you're talking about that part, then that was left out because anything that green shirt did after the bullets started flying, would easily fall under the umbrella of self defense. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Except black shirt was attacked by green shirt and lethal force was legal for self defense at that instance. The fact the shot he fired missed does not make that shot meet the defination of a "warning shot". Lol he was attacked? Surely you at least see why everyone is laughing about the mental gymnastics being performed in this thread, don’t you? You cannot kill someone for a chest bump during an argument, even here in Texas. Why would you leave out the attempted gun grab? Doesn’t fit into your narrative, does it. . . What gun grab?? Are you talking about when he pushed the little man away from him, after the little man left the conversation to retrieve a gun and started shooting at him? If you're talking about that part, then that was left out because anything that green shirt did after the bullets started flying, would easily fall under the umbrella of self defense. Can't claim self defense while standing in some place you DO NOT have the legal right to be. |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 4:46:47 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Chad's mistake was not grabbing the rifle barrel then pummeling Kyle until Kyle released the rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What attempted gun grab? When he pushed it away from his body, or when he grabbed it to avoid getting shot with it while he did the blackshirt toss? Chad's mistake was not grabbing the rifle barrel then pummeling Kyle until Kyle released the rifle. If Green shirt was really committed to a gun grab, then Black shirt would have lost that rifle. Green shirt was the larger man, he had the initiative, and he was rubbing nipples with Black shirt before Black shirt even knew what was going on. Everything was posturing. |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 4:51:00 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can't claim self defense while standing in some place you DO NOT have the legal right to be. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Except black shirt was attacked by green shirt and lethal force was legal for self defense at that instance. The fact the shot he fired missed does not make that shot meet the defination of a "warning shot". Lol he was attacked? Surely you at least see why everyone is laughing about the mental gymnastics being performed in this thread, don’t you? You cannot kill someone for a chest bump during an argument, even here in Texas. Why would you leave out the attempted gun grab? Doesn’t fit into your narrative, does it. . . What gun grab?? Are you talking about when he pushed the little man away from him, after the little man left the conversation to retrieve a gun and started shooting at him? If you're talking about that part, then that was left out because anything that green shirt did after the bullets started flying, would easily fall under the umbrella of self defense. Can't claim self defense while standing in some place you DO NOT have the legal right to be. Sure you can. I've used this hypothetical before, but let's do it again... If I catch you breaking into my house, and rather than call the police, I decide that I am going to channel my inner Zed from Pulp Fiction; you still have every right to defend yourself. You do not have to let me ass rape you. just because you are inside my house. |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 4:54:18 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure you can. I've used this hypothetical before, but let's do it again... If I catch you breaking into my house, and rather than call the police, I decide that I am going to channel my inner Zed from Pulp Fiction; you still have every right to defend yourself. You do not have to let me ass rape you. just because you are inside my house. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Except black shirt was attacked by green shirt and lethal force was legal for self defense at that instance. The fact the shot he fired missed does not make that shot meet the defination of a "warning shot". Lol he was attacked? Surely you at least see why everyone is laughing about the mental gymnastics being performed in this thread, don’t you? You cannot kill someone for a chest bump during an argument, even here in Texas. Why would you leave out the attempted gun grab? Doesn’t fit into your narrative, does it. . . What gun grab?? Are you talking about when he pushed the little man away from him, after the little man left the conversation to retrieve a gun and started shooting at him? If you're talking about that part, then that was left out because anything that green shirt did after the bullets started flying, would easily fall under the umbrella of self defense. Can't claim self defense while standing in some place you DO NOT have the legal right to be. Sure you can. I've used this hypothetical before, but let's do it again... If I catch you breaking into my house, and rather than call the police, I decide that I am going to channel my inner Zed from Pulp Fiction; you still have every right to defend yourself. You do not have to let me ass rape you. just because you are inside my house. Take that one to court and let me know how it goes. Robbery, and murder charge will stick, might get a light sentence ala what's her name off duty officer in Dallas who killed that dood on his own couch and got 10 years for said murder |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 8:46:55 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then what? Seriously, you can't fathom any other alternatives than threatening to take the property owners weapon and kill him with it? How about staying on the sidewalk, or waiting in your car on the street? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If memory serves, black shirt re-emerged with the rifle, standing on the porch and demanding that green shirt leave. Green shirt then advances on black shirt and attempted to take the rifle, twice. Playing Devil's Asshole here - If there is a rule byva judge dictating that the custodial transfer occur at that place and by a certain time, then what? Then what? Seriously, you can't fathom any other alternatives than threatening to take the property owners weapon and kill him with it? How about staying on the sidewalk, or waiting in your car on the street? Where did I advocate any action, or any position in this whole cock-muck? How about don't fucking read into what people are saying? Where have I propositioned anything? I asked a question about custodial transfers. JFC..."you people". |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 8:52:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If Green shirt was really committed to a gun grab, then Black shirt would have lost that rifle. Green shirt was the larger man, he had the initiative, and he was rubbing nipples with Black shirt before Black shirt even knew what was going on. Everything was posturing. Black shirt thought his posturing with a gun would scare green shirt into backing down. Green shirt thought his posturing would scare black shirt into backing down because he was bigger than black shirt. Ain't nobody here smart enough to back down from a stupid confrontation. |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 9:53:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Black shirt thought his posturing with a gun would scare green shirt into backing down. Green shirt thought his posturing would scare black shirt into backing down because he was bigger than black shirt. Ain't nobody here smart enough to back down from a stupid confrontation. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If Green shirt was really committed to a gun grab, then Black shirt would have lost that rifle. Green shirt was the larger man, he had the initiative, and he was rubbing nipples with Black shirt before Black shirt even knew what was going on. Everything was posturing. Black shirt thought his posturing with a gun would scare green shirt into backing down. Green shirt thought his posturing would scare black shirt into backing down because he was bigger than black shirt. Ain't nobody here smart enough to back down from a stupid confrontation. Yup |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 10:56:03 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "raging at you and your girlfriend"? You mean yelling about where is his kid at and threatening to haul people to court? Yeeeeaaaahhhhhhhhhhh; that certainly warrants getting a gun to protect yourself from those non-existent physical threats. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A criminal trespasser that is physical larger than you is in your front yard, refusing to leave, and is raging at you and your girlfriend. It’s absolutely “appropriate” to arm oneself in such circumstances, even though no justification is needed. “Critically think”? Time for you to start. . . "raging at you and your girlfriend"? You mean yelling about where is his kid at and threatening to haul people to court? Yeeeeaaaahhhhhhhhhhh; that certainly warrants getting a gun to protect yourself from those non-existent physical threats. In your world, are domestic situations all rainbows and unicorns, or do they, like in the real world, turn violent? “Critically think.” Just do it. |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 11:02:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where did I advocate any action, or any position in this whole cock-muck? How about don't fucking read into what people are saying? Where have I propositioned anything? I asked a question about custodial transfers. JFC..."you people". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If memory serves, black shirt re-emerged with the rifle, standing on the porch and demanding that green shirt leave. Green shirt then advances on black shirt and attempted to take the rifle, twice. Playing Devil's Asshole here - If there is a rule byva judge dictating that the custodial transfer occur at that place and by a certain time, then what? Then what? Seriously, you can't fathom any other alternatives than threatening to take the property owners weapon and kill him with it? How about staying on the sidewalk, or waiting in your car on the street? Where did I advocate any action, or any position in this whole cock-muck? How about don't fucking read into what people are saying? Where have I propositioned anything? I asked a question about custodial transfers. JFC..."you people". Sorry you weren’t able to follow along. |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 11:30:51 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In your world, are domestic situations all rainbows and unicorns, or do they, like in the real world, turn violent? “Critically think.” Just do it. Pretty sure I have a lot more experience addressing DV situations than you.............and this one didnt need a gun. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:34:58 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In your world, are domestic situations all rainbows and unicorns, or do they, like in the real world, turn violent? “Critically think.” Just do it. How many of them turn violent because one party introduces something into the argument that they think will deescalate the situation....and instead escalate it further? If some of the TX folks in the thread are correct, black shirt was completely legal to go in the house and get his gun....but the argument didn't get physical until he did that. I could see where that could hurt him with a jury....or not....it's all just speculation at this point. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 9:43:51 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In your world, are domestic situations all rainbows and unicorns, or do they, like in the real world, turn violent? "Critically think." Just do it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: A criminal trespasser that is physical larger than you is in your front yard, refusing to leave, and is raging at you and your girlfriend. It's absolutely "appropriate" to arm oneself in such circumstances, even though no justification is needed. "Critically think"? Time for you to start. . . "raging at you and your girlfriend"? You mean yelling about where is his kid at and threatening to haul people to court? Yeeeeaaaahhhhhhhhhhh; that certainly warrants getting a gun to protect yourself from those non-existent physical threats. In your world, are domestic situations all rainbows and unicorns, or do they, like in the real world, turn violent? "Critically think." Just do it. The dude you're arguing with (now) is a police officer. But since you already quoted me and replied with a bunch of dumb stuff, I'm going to infer you were either drinking, or naturally inclined to a lower level of cogitation. Or both. 
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Posted: 12/7/2021 3:47:55 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The dude you're arguing with (now) is a police officer. But since you already quoted me and replied with a bunch of dumb stuff, I'm going to infer you were either drinking, or naturally inclined to a lower level of cogitation. Or both. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A criminal trespasser that is physical larger than you is in your front yard, refusing to leave, and is raging at you and your girlfriend. It's absolutely "appropriate" to arm oneself in such circumstances, even though no justification is needed. "Critically think"? Time for you to start. . . "raging at you and your girlfriend"? You mean yelling about where is his kid at and threatening to haul people to court? Yeeeeaaaahhhhhhhhhhh; that certainly warrants getting a gun to protect yourself from those non-existent physical threats. In your world, are domestic situations all rainbows and unicorns, or do they, like in the real world, turn violent? "Critically think." Just do it. The dude you're arguing with (now) is a police officer. But since you already quoted me and replied with a bunch of dumb stuff, I'm going to infer you were either drinking, or naturally inclined to a lower level of cogitation. Or both. It's another 2013 account with 300 posts (and probably 50-100 in this thread alone.) I think this is one of those accounts that the mods are suppose to be looking for. |
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Posted: 12/7/2021 4:06:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Once they tell the father the child is not there, and I believe they did, the father should have left when told to do so. I think the whore/mother of his children told him to stay she wanted to talk to him. The whole thing smells like it was a setup to kill the guy. |
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