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Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:25:57 PM EST
[#1]
I think Jon killing the Night King would have been too obvious and anti-climatic.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:26:27 PM EST
[#2]
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No kidding. But how many of them spent pages arguing with the same person or making the same ignorant argument? I’m guessing zero.
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Actually, some people here have written novels.
No kidding. But how many of them spent pages arguing with the same person or making the same ignorant argument? I’m guessing zero.
Ever been to GD?  
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:26:34 PM EST
[#3]
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So when all hope is lost and the army of dead is on the verge of complete destruction on Winterfell.....

It’s suddenly stopped by a girl flying through air to make the kill.....

Nope, not even close to DeusExMachina.....

A Deus ex Machina (pron: /di??s ?ks mæk?n?/ for Britons, /de?u?s ?ks m??k?n?/ for Americans; /deus eks ma?k?ina?/ in the orginal Latin) is when some new event, character, ability, or object solves a seemingly unsolvable problem in a sudden, unexpected way.
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That's quite the oversimplification but ok.

Y'all must have never rolled a rogue. Pop sprint and vanish ftw. Evasion was obviously on cooldown from the library fight.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:33:04 PM EST
[#4]
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See this is reasonable ^


I personally felt they should have done the conventional, and run beastmode from the 1 yard line.

There's merits to the switcheroo, and merits to the "obvious" paying off for the audience.

I do think a change was made, interesting we're in agreement, only "disagreement" is on the timeline of when they did.
IMHO it's a serious thing to consider.

While I would have gone with Jon?
At the absolute worst, and I'm withholding judgement until the season ends, hypothetically I might bump the Show down from a 100% to a 99%
It's still one of my all time favorite shows, and  I'll be watching again

ETA: I think this is why the final book is taking so long, GRRM has to re-write some things to make the pieces fit.
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One of the worse series to exploit misdirection was LOST.

The writers and directors literally got lost in all his misdirection in LOST.  They opened whole story arcs and subplots, they had misdirection within misdirections, and kept it going for seasons on end.  When they finally had to wrap the series they left open so many loose ends a lot of fans were absolutely pissed.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:33:12 PM EST
[#5]
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Most of your list happened in S7 when D&D just decided to make Arya kill the NK. Arya's story always pointed to her just being a ruthless/heartless assassin around westeros.

Then please explain why everyone who was wearing plate armor died by rusty old iron blades from the wights.
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In case you missed it:

1) Arya was given that dagger BY BRAN  when they were IN THE GODSWOOD
1b) This dagger was the same one that an assassin tried to kill Bran with in Season 1
2) Arya snuck up on Jon, who isn't exactly a dummy, IN THE GODSWOOD just a few episodes ago
3) Arya grew up in Winterfell and had the layout memorized
4) Arya has training to move silently / undetected with the Faceless Men
5) Arya has been training to fight ever since she could pick up a stick, literally since she was ~5.
6) Arya was specifically told by the hound to attack weak points in armor many seasons ago
7) Arya used the same move against Brienne LAST SEASON (season 7)
8) When SAM is reading books about "the others" in the Citadel, there's literally a picture of the exact dagger she uses in the book.
9) The Night King is many things, but arrogance is his biggest weakness
10) Theon distracted everyone moments before this happened
11) Earlier in THIS EPISODE Melisandre said that Arya stark would close Blue Eyes
12) Earlier in THIS episode, Beric Dondarrion and Sandor Clegane both save her life.

If you think (Arya killing the Night King) came out of left field, you weren't paying attention
Most of your list happened in S7 when D&D just decided to make Arya kill the NK. Arya's story always pointed to her just being a ruthless/heartless assassin around westeros.

Then please explain why everyone who was wearing plate armor died by rusty old iron blades from the wights.
They only had level III plates with no stab protection.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:35:40 PM EST
[#6]
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Yep, its not close. Its the exact definition.
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Yep, its not close. Its the exact definition.
No, I don't think so.

meh....it certainly wasn't a perfect example of deus ex machina. She had extreme motive. There was substantial foreshadowings of the event, both in this particular episodes, and prior episodes. Also, Arya didn't just come into the picture. She was focused upon in this episode, and has been a primary character throughout the series.

She didn't just arrive on the scene. She was there long before the antagonist. Throughout the series her abilities have been demonstrated time and time again. She was trained to be an assassin by the faceless man, and demonstrated extraordinary abilities of deception and stealth.

The fact that what seems like an unlikely jump for the actor doesn't really qualify as deus ex machina. Besides the series was filled with such events, and the jump was within her demonstrated ability. It was entirely possible for the character to have done, what she did.

Eddard Stark showing up and killing the Night King is a good imagery example of what would have been deus ex Machina. Arya doing it, is not.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:37:26 PM EST
[#7]
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You know that's another interesting thought.  If you go back and look at the scene, there are all these heavy iron grated baskets that Theon's men were using for their arrows and fire.  They look about two, maybe two and half feet tall, and pretty solid.  The actress that plays Arya is only 5'1 and the actor that plays the Night King is 6'1, so with a running start, and using the iron baskets to gain some jumping height, maybe the trajectory seen in the film really wasn't all that extraordinary for the character Arya.

Damn, if you really look at the scene, and what's around, there are all sorts ways Arya, with her particular skill set, could have made that jump running from a hidden position.  ...hmmmm.  Again, no flying, and no unusual magic needed
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You guys think way too much into scenes on a fiction show that designed for nothing more than entertainment.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:41:58 PM EST
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:

No, that post lays it all out pretty good but some people have to be spoon fed everything.  You might  want to look up what Deus ex machina is because you look like a fool when you keep claiming it is, when its not.

Here, I'll help you out.  https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeusExmachina
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So when all hope is lost and the army of dead is on the verge of complete destruction on Winterfell.....

It’s suddenly stopped by a girl flying through air to make the kill.....

Nope, not even close to DeusExMachina.....

A Deus ex Machina (pron: /di??s ?ks mæk?n?/ for Britons, /de?u?s ?ks m??k?n?/ for Americans; /deus eks ma?k?ina?/ in the orginal Latin) is when some new event, character, ability, or object solves a seemingly unsolvable problem in a sudden, unexpected way.
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Thanks for proving you can't read.  Arya is not a new character, running/jumping/stabbing has been established as not being a new ability, and the catspaw is an established object.

from the link:

Note that there are a number of requirements for a sudden plot development to be a Deus ex Machina:

1    Deus ex Machina are solutions to a problem. They are never unexpected developments that make things worse, nor sudden twists that only change the understanding of a story.
2    Deus ex Machina are sudden or unexpected. This means that even if they are featured, referenced or set-up earlier in the story, they do not change the course of nor appear as a natural or a viable solution to the plotline they eventually "solve".
3    Deus ex Machina are used to resolve a situation portrayed as unsolvable or hopeless. If the problem could be solved with a bit of common sense or other type of simple intervention, the solution is not a Deus ex Machina no matter how unexpected it may seem.
4    Deus ex Machina are external to the characters and their choices throughout the story. The solution comes from a character with small or non-existent influence on the plot until that point or random chance from nature or karma.
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1 is satisfied, but every plot element has that.
2 fail because it is completely forshadowed and Arya was alway a possible character to combat and kill the NK.
3 fail because it is not an unsolvable problem to kill the NK.  The plan worked to lure him into the Godswood and any of the characters with Valyrian steel weapons or maybe even dragonglass could kill him.
4 is the biggest fail.  Arya's actions are not external to her characters and she is not a small character in the story.

If it fails one point it is not Deus ex machina.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:42:30 PM EST
[#9]
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No, I don't think so.
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You somehow missed that she evaded an entire army of soldiers in an open field without being noticed. Was she wearing Frodo’s cloak of invisibility?
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:43:39 PM EST
[#10]
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What the hell happened to TV and movies being fun or entertaining?

Watching a show about DRAGONS and UNDEAD and MAGIC and WHITE WALKERS and FACE-LIFTING ASSASSINS and DIRE WOLVES and WARGING.....etc. And people get their panties in a wad over how Arya managed to get the drop on the NK.

Arya knows Winterfell as well as anyone and would have known the best place to go, or at least to start from on/in the walls around the godswood.

Arya knows how to jump from high stuff. (see gif above with the waif chasing her...)

The White Walkers and the wights that were in the godswood stopped at the NK's "order". He was going to kill (or do whatever) to Bran. They were told to stand there and watch. We had seen them do that a LOT.
Recall when the NK speared the dragon north of the wall..."Hey Chilly Joe, get your cold ass over there and bring me that ice spear". All the rest of them sat there on their horses with their icy thumbs up their frozen arseholes.

Other than the encounter with Jon and Dany when he was on the blue dragon, he kept himself AND the WWs out of the battle. The numbers of wights in his army were overwhelming
and WAY more than had been accounted for. Even though the humans knew they were vastly outnumbered, they grossly underestimated the numbers, hence the Dothraki demise because they got cocky.
The NK's forces had conquered Winterfell's defenses, overtaken the castle and he laughed off Drogon's flames and strolled into the godswood to claim his prize. There was no need for him to engage the WWs.
They were all just generals in the war tent, anyway. NK was running the show.

The situation flipped and the NK got cocky.

The WWs are posted up on their dead horses, doing nothing. They've strolled into the godswood with the NK with nothing to do but observe.

The NK, about to claim his prized victory, is focused on nothing but Bran and ending humanity or whatever. Having killed Theon Jenkins, there's now no barrier between him and Bran. He lets down his guard. The NK
and Bran are locked in this weird lovers' gaze thingy. Bran looks at the NK and then appears to look at the hilt of the NK's sword. The NK does this "dog turning his head in response to funny noises head turn" as if he noticed
what Bran was thinking like "Oh yeah? Really?". Alternatively, Bran might be communicating with him on some level that we can't see (I think this is the case). Essentially, he's distracted and thinks it's all over but the swordstrike.

Arya gets the drop on the WWs. With her training, her knowledge of the castle layout and obviously being "in the zone" after Mel's reminder about blue eyes and pep talk about "not today" (there is also an element of fate happening here),
she blows past the WWs who are sitting there on their horses with their frozen little thumbs in their chilly little arseholes (again/still), weapons sheathed, watching the NK about to claim his victory. They don't have any supernatural sensory
abilities. They were asleep at the wheel. Whether she jumped from height (wall or tree) or even ran past, it was too late. We see the hair of a WW blow as something goes past. It's too late for them to do anything at that point.

Whatever Arya's method to get past the WWs, the NK senses/hears her coming and turns and catches her by the throat and the dagger arm in mid-air, but her assassin training comes through. No panic. Dagger flip/drop (which we had seen
before, and shouldn't really be all that unbelievable for the character). Stab with Dagger of Destiny®. End NK. End WWs. End wights and blue dragon. End war with the dead.

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!?!?!????!!!!
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I am going with this.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:47:04 PM EST
[#11]
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If you pay attention to the show, most of the human characters do not get a good onscreen death either.  This last episode was unusual that a lot of the good guys died heroically in battle.  Throughout the series most characters die by poisoning, getting their throats cut, head chopped off, smothered or died in bed/on the ground from wounds, suicide, assassination, or explosion.
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Come to think of it: of the 6 Stark direwolves 4 are dead and not one of them was given a good onscreen death.

Lady obliviously gets her throat cut.

Grey Wind gets killed with crossbows while he is caged due to his owner's stupidity.

Shaggydog gets killed off screen.

Summer was given the best death by far and it was simply him lasting about .87 seconds against wights before getting stabbed to death.  He sacrificed his life to buy Bran an extra two seconds.
If you pay attention to the show, most of the human characters do not get a good onscreen death either.  This last episode was unusual that a lot of the good guys died heroically in battle.  Throughout the series most characters die by poisoning, getting their throats cut, head chopped off, smothered or died in bed/on the ground from wounds, suicide, assassination, or explosion.
Thank you for clearing that up.  I had no idea most of the human characters on the show didn't get a "good" onscreen death.  Before your post I thought everyone was getting the Lyanna Mormont treatment. That completely changes my observation about the creatures capable of individually killing dozens of men and horses during a single battle.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:49:12 PM EST
[#12]
I'm just going to say this:

GoT is famous for killing off everyone's favorite and not sticking to usual tropes.
Arya is a badass and was a favorite of many viewers. NOW she's a freaking legend since slaying the NK. She fulfilled the biggest purposes of one the main plots.

Click To View Spoiler
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:50:06 PM EST
[#13]
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Quoted:
Come to think of it: of the 6 Stark direwolves 4 are dead and not one of them was given a good onscreen death.

Lady obliviously gets her throat cut.

Grey Wind gets killed with crossbows while he is caged due to his owner's stupidity.

Shaggydog gets killed off screen.

Summer was given the best death by far and it was simply him lasting about .87 seconds against wights before getting stabbed to death.  He sacrificed his life to buy Bran an extra two seconds.
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I'm really disappointed with how Nymeria's story went in the show. At least in the books Arya keeps dreaming of her (which are obviously not dreams but projections) and stories keep popping up about a direwolf female-lead wolf pack ambushing people.

Here's to hoping they make a trip through the Riverlands and see her one last time in the show.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:50:31 PM EST
[#14]
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The fucking bigots that wrote that article completely ignore the genocide of the undead that occurred in episode 3. #WightLivesMatter
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:51:37 PM EST
[#15]
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I'm just going to say this:

GoT is famous for killing off everyone's favorite and not sticking to usual tropes.
Arya is a badass and was a favorite of many viewers. NOW she's a freaking legend since slaying the NK. She fulfilled the biggest purposes of one the main plots.

Click To View Spoiler
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You’re confusing GRRMartin (the author of the books), who is unafraid to kill off major characters, with D&D, who are metrosexual hollywood whores who write popular fanfiction loosely based on GRRM’s books.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:52:21 PM EST
[#16]
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Better than 20 pages about rape.
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Great, ten fucking pages of Arya's jump discussion.
Better than 20 pages about rape.
QFT
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:53:18 PM EST
[#17]
We do need at least two more pages discussing the Arya superjump.

The godswood is loaded with big trees.  She could have easily moved among them to make her kill
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:54:31 PM EST
[#18]
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Quoted:
I'm just going to say this:

GoT is famous for killing off everyone's favorite and not sticking to usual tropes.
Arya is a badass and was a favorite of many viewers. NOW she's a freaking legend since slaying the NK. She fulfilled the biggest purposes of one the main plots.

Click To View Spoiler
View Quote
This is the problem I have with Arya killing the NK. We are quickly approaching TLJ territory.

She is now the unstoppable supper assasain that kills everyone going forward and/or we get wonky shit that makes no sense.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:57:56 PM EST
[#19]
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Quoted:
This is the problem I have with Arya killing the NK. We are quickly approaching TLJ territory.

She is now the unstoppable supper assasain that kills everyone going forward and/or we get wonky shit that makes no sense.
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Quoted:
I'm just going to say this:

GoT is famous for killing off everyone's favorite and not sticking to usual tropes.
Arya is a badass and was a favorite of many viewers. NOW she's a freaking legend since slaying the NK. She fulfilled the biggest purposes of one the main plots.

Click To View Spoiler
This is the problem I have with Arya killing the NK. We are quickly approaching TLJ territory.

She is now the unstoppable supper assasain that kills everyone going forward and/or we get wonky shit that makes no sense.
Yep. I really hope this doesn't end in "you go girls!"

I'd be ok if it's Sansa (ETA grammar) uses her new shiny dragon glass pointy thing to kill Cersei...but accidentally plunges it into her heart creating a night queen.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:58:46 PM EST
[#20]
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 12:58:54 PM EST
[#21]
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Thanks for proving you can't read.  Arya is not a new character, running/jumping/stabbing has been established as not being a new ability, and the catspaw is an established object.

from the link:

1 is satisfied, but every plot element has that.
2 is satisfied because she suddenly appeared in mid-air, in the open, surrounded by enemy soldiers
3 is satisfied because all appeared lost until Arya magically flying in.
4 is satisfied because Arya spent the entire series training so she could cross name off her list. She knew nothing of the army of the dead until arrived in winterfell. She’s never battled them, hell shes never seen them until this episode. Her plot line could have never happened and series would still have gotten here. She was of zero importance to it.

If it fails one point it is not Deus ex machina.

It satisfied all the points.
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No, that post lays it all out pretty good but some people have to be spoon fed everything.  You might  want to look up what Deus ex machina is because you look like a fool when you keep claiming it is, when its not.

Here, I'll help you out.  https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeusExmachina
So when all hope is lost and the army of dead is on the verge of complete destruction on Winterfell.....

It’s suddenly stopped by a girl flying through air to make the kill.....

Nope, not even close to DeusExMachina.....

A Deus ex Machina (pron: /di??s ?ks mæk?n?/ for Britons, /de?u?s ?ks m??k?n?/ for Americans; /deus eks ma?k?ina?/ in the orginal Latin) is when some new event, character, ability, or object solves a seemingly unsolvable problem in a sudden, unexpected way.
Thanks for proving you can't read.  Arya is not a new character, running/jumping/stabbing has been established as not being a new ability, and the catspaw is an established object.

from the link:

Note that there are a number of requirements for a sudden plot development to be a Deus ex Machina:

1    Deus ex Machina are solutions to a problem. They are never unexpected developments that make things worse, nor sudden twists that only change the understanding of a story.
2    Deus ex Machina are sudden or unexpected. This means that even if they are featured, referenced or set-up earlier in the story, they do not change the course of nor appear as a natural or a viable solution to the plotline they eventually "solve".
3    Deus ex Machina are used to resolve a situation portrayed as unsolvable or hopeless. If the problem could be solved with a bit of common sense or other type of simple intervention, the solution is not a Deus ex Machina no matter how unexpected it may seem.
4    Deus ex Machina are external to the characters and their choices throughout the story. The solution comes from a character with small or non-existent influence on the plot until that point or random chance from nature or karma.
1 is satisfied, but every plot element has that.
2 is satisfied because she suddenly appeared in mid-air, in the open, surrounded by enemy soldiers
3 is satisfied because all appeared lost until Arya magically flying in.
4 is satisfied because Arya spent the entire series training so she could cross name off her list. She knew nothing of the army of the dead until arrived in winterfell. She’s never battled them, hell shes never seen them until this episode. Her plot line could have never happened and series would still have gotten here. She was of zero importance to it.

If it fails one point it is not Deus ex machina.

It satisfied all the points.
Fixed it for you.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:01:38 PM EST
[#22]
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Quoted:
Thank you for clearing that up.  I had no idea most of the human characters on the show didn't get a "good" onscreen death.  Before your post I thought everyone was getting the Lyanna Mormont treatment. That completely changes my observation about the creatures capable of individually killing dozens of men and horses during a single battle.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Come to think of it: of the 6 Stark direwolves 4 are dead and not one of them was given a good onscreen death.

Lady obliviously gets her throat cut.

Grey Wind gets killed with crossbows while he is caged due to his owner's stupidity.

Shaggydog gets killed off screen.

Summer was given the best death by far and it was simply him lasting about .87 seconds against wights before getting stabbed to death.  He sacrificed his life to buy Bran an extra two seconds.
If you pay attention to the show, most of the human characters do not get a good onscreen death either.  This last episode was unusual that a lot of the good guys died heroically in battle.  Throughout the series most characters die by poisoning, getting their throats cut, head chopped off, smothered or died in bed/on the ground from wounds, suicide, assassination, or explosion.
Thank you for clearing that up.  I had no idea most of the human characters on the show didn't get a "good" onscreen death.  Before your post I thought everyone was getting the Lyanna Mormont treatment. That completely changes my observation about the creatures capable of individually killing dozens of men and horses during a single battle.
I get it, you're still upset that your precious direwolves didn't get more screen time.  Don't worry, they will get plenty of action when the rest of the books get published.  GRRM says it will only be a couple more years, he promises.

Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm just going to say this:

GoT is famous for killing off everyone's favorite and not sticking to usual tropes.
Arya is a badass and was a favorite of many viewers. NOW she's a freaking legend since slaying the NK. She fulfilled the biggest purposes of one the main plots.

Click To View Spoiler
This is the problem I have with Arya killing the NK. We are quickly approaching TLJ territory.

She is now the unstoppable supper assasain that kills everyone going forward and/or we get wonky shit that makes no sense.
Well the problem goes back to GRRM introducing the faceless men into the story.  You create a group of unstoppable super assassins and send one of the major characters to go train with them and become one of them, what do you expect to happen?
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:02:57 PM EST
[#23]
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:03:23 PM EST
[#24]
Skipping to the future...

Cersei has made a MST of enemies by her betrayal (in alphabetic order by last name):

Sandor "The Hound" Clegane
Tormund Giantsbane
Asha Yara Greyjoy
Jamie Lannister
Tyrion Lannister
Podrick Payne
Davos Seaworth
Arya Stark
Brann Stark
Sansa Stark
Daenerys Targaryen
Jon Snow Targaryen
Brienne of Tarth
Samwell Tarly
Lord Varys
Grey Worm

She'd best sleep with both eyes open.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:03:29 PM EST
[#25]
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I get it, you're still upset that your precious direwolves didn't get more screen time.  Don't worry, they will get plenty of action when the rest of the books get published.  GRRM says it will only be a couple more years, he promises.

Well the problem goes back to GRRM introducing the faceless men into the story.  You create a group of unstoppable super assassins and send one of the major characters to go train with them and become one of them, what do you expect to happen?
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They’re hardly unstoppable. Jaquen was captured and going to die in a cage until Arya saved him.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:03:34 PM EST
[#26]
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Quoted:
The Night King and Snoke are the same character now.

No motivation, no explanation, just a bad guy that was bad because bad then died from a silly trick.
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We are quickly approaching TLJ territory.
The Night King and Snoke are the same character now.

No motivation, no explanation, just a bad guy that was bad because bad then died from a silly trick.
I really hate making the comparison, but "the ink is dry." I'm not going to see Ep.9 of SW. Don't even care (lifelong SW fan). I will watch the last 3 episodes of GoT, but D&D are on an uphill climb to find some redemption after ep. 3.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:04:15 PM EST
[#27]
I've been on team Arya since that move at the Twins. I think her and The Hound are the best Characters on the show.

They will be kicking ass tother in the final battle (from leaked shots)
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:04:34 PM EST
[#28]
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Quoted:
Significant items on that list happened seasons prior to season 7, the plan for Arya to kill the Night King solidified in season 5.
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Quoted:

Most of your list happened in S7 when D&D just decided to make Arya kill the NK. Arya's story always pointed to her just being a ruthless/heartless assassin around westeros.

Then please explain why everyone who was wearing plate armor died by rusty old iron blades from the wights.
Significant items on that list happened seasons prior to season 7, the plan for Arya to kill the Night King solidified in season 5.
What plan was that?
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:05:41 PM EST
[#29]
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Looks Familiar.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:06:21 PM EST
[#30]
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I've been on team Arya since that move at the Twins. I think her and The Hound are the best Characters on the show.

They will be kicking ass tother in the final battle (from leaked shots)
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That's all fine and dandy, but she'd better die quick. I swear if this show has a typical fairy tale ending where everyone lives happily ever after, I won't ever watch it again.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:07:12 PM EST
[#31]
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Yep. I really hope this doesn't end in "you go girls!"
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Me too, but I'm still expecting it.

Go watch the "inside the episode" interview with Dumb and Dumber talking about the war council on Dragonstone in S7. They talked about the "all female" war council like it was the TV equivalent of Rosa Parks or something.

Never mind that it was Tyrion leading the conversation and all these "powerful independent women" were discussing his plan.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:07:40 PM EST
[#32]
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Skipping to the future...

Cersei has made a MST of enemies by her betrayal (in alphabetic order by last name):

Sandor "The Hound" Clegane
Tormund Giantsbane
Asha Yara Greyjoy
Jamie Lannister
Tyrion Lannister
Podrick Payne
Davos Seaworth
Arya Stark
Brann Stark
Sansa Stark
Daenerys Targaryen
Jon Snow Targaryen
Brienne of Tarth
Samwell Tarly
Lord Varys
Grey Worm

She'd best sleep with both eyes open.
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There’s only one name that matters...Arya. She’s probably hiding in the bushes on KL right now.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:09:28 PM EST
[#33]
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Since I haven't seen it mentioned yet, I'd like to give a shout-out to the winterfell courtyard team of like 6 people for being absolute tanks and holding off thousands of wights that just cut through an entire army
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They had leet heals. Pallys are imba.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:09:46 PM EST
[#34]
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In before the Arya truthers claim it’s photoshopped.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:11:57 PM EST
[#35]
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I think Jon killing the Night King would have been too obvious and anti-climatic.
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Not if he skydived off of Rhaegal to do it.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:13:29 PM EST
[#36]
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:15:00 PM EST
[#37]
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I get it, you're still upset that your precious direwolves didn't get more screen time.  Don't worry, they will get plenty of action when the rest of the books get published.  GRRM says it will only be a couple more years, he promises.
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Come to think of it: of the 6 Stark direwolves 4 are dead and not one of them was given a good onscreen death.

Lady obliviously gets her throat cut.

Grey Wind gets killed with crossbows while he is caged due to his owner's stupidity.

Shaggydog gets killed off screen.

Summer was given the best death by far and it was simply him lasting about .87 seconds against wights before getting stabbed to death.  He sacrificed his life to buy Bran an extra two seconds.
If you pay attention to the show, most of the human characters do not get a good onscreen death either.  This last episode was unusual that a lot of the good guys died heroically in battle.  Throughout the series most characters die by poisoning, getting their throats cut, head chopped off, smothered or died in bed/on the ground from wounds, suicide, assassination, or explosion.
Thank you for clearing that up.  I had no idea most of the human characters on the show didn't get a "good" onscreen death.  Before your post I thought everyone was getting the Lyanna Mormont treatment. That completely changes my observation about the creatures capable of individually killing dozens of men and horses during a single battle.
I get it, you're still upset that your precious direwolves didn't get more screen time.  Don't worry, they will get plenty of action when the rest of the books get published.  GRRM says it will only be a couple more years, he promises.
I totally get it and I am so appreciative of you pointing out that random nobodies on the show usually don't get good deaths so clearly its impertinent to make a post about how none of these creatures the show built up as intimidating killing machines capable of individually killing dozens of men and horses during a single battle were given a good death and wishing that at least one did.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:15:50 PM EST
[#38]
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IIRC as late as 2013 GRRM was talking a "Bittersweet ending" and stuff like that?

Which Makes me think from 2013 to 2016, Fame is setting in, GRRM hadn't released the book, D&D started persauding him.
2 years in they got him to relent, and the story changed.
Now there's more "fan service" stuff, better scenes, "Better deaths" for main characters, things of that nature.
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source?

D&D said 3 years ago in the after show, which would have put them in production of season 7.
Your right, I was wrong.  I thought they said for 3 seasons, but they actually said 3 years.  They've known since 2016, and started foreshadowing in season 7.
IIRC as late as 2013 GRRM was talking a "Bittersweet ending" and stuff like that?

Which Makes me think from 2013 to 2016, Fame is setting in, GRRM hadn't released the book, D&D started persauding him.
2 years in they got him to relent, and the story changed.
Now there's more "fan service" stuff, better scenes, "Better deaths" for main characters, things of that nature.
I'm starting to believe this, and I really wanted to pick up the books to read, but now I don't even want to cause I know I'll feel cheated from the original ending/plot.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:17:57 PM EST
[#39]
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*removed*
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It's been over 16 months since S7 ended and now we finally have the S8 premiere date.  The last season of Game of Thrones will start April 14.

PLEASE PUT ANY SPOILERS IN SPOILER TAGS.  DON'T BE A CUNT.

If you don't know how just copy and paste the following and remove the X's:

[spoilerX] type spoiler here [/spoilerX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA38GCX4Tb0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlR4PJn8b8I
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:18:44 PM EST
[#40]
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Also not if he stabbed through Dany to do it.

You get your Nissa Nissa and you get rid of awful Dany.
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Not if he skydived off of Rhaegal to do it.
Also not if he stabbed through Dany to do it.

You get your Nissa Nissa and you get rid of awful Dany.
It would have been better if Jon cut down old blue flames, ran in and dove in front of the Night Kings killing blow with Long Claw, fights NK pitifully holding onto hope and just at the moment when you know NK is going to run Jon through, Click To View Spoiler

Would've been so much better.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:22:51 PM EST
[#41]
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I'm just going to say this:

GoT is famous for killing off everyone's favorite and not sticking to usual tropes.
Arya is a badass and was a favorite of many viewers. NOW she's a freaking legend since slaying the NK. She fulfilled the biggest purposes of one the main plots.

Click To View Spoiler
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Im hoping she shanks him...he grabs her  does the break your back on my knee trick....then rips her heart out of her chest, rib cage guts and all.
Just cause...
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:23:20 PM EST
[#42]
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Also not if he stabbed through Dany to do it.

You get your Nissa Nissa and you get rid of awful Dany.
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So you'd be cool with a cliché and predictable prophecy fulfillment outcome like that but what did happen was a bridge too far?

How would Jon Snow getting into a 1v1 with the Nightking and winning be any less of Deus ex Machina than what happened?

Arya killing the Nightking is the Red Wedding of plot devices to y'alls hopes for what should have been but wasn't.

The Nightking should have steamrolled everybody, everything else is bad writing. Change my mind.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:26:16 PM EST
[#43]
This thread in a nutshell
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:26:20 PM EST
[#44]
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How about 10 pages of someone arguing that modern sexual assault laws in the real world somehow apply to a fantasy world?
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That still sticks in your craw, doesn't it? You just can't let it go.

On the show,  Daenerys was raped on her wedding night.

Nonconsensual sex = rape. It is universal. In the GoT world and in ours. Whether you're married, a slave, a whore, a midget, a wight, or a self-proclaimed Hunter-Killer.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:29:32 PM EST
[#45]
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Quoted:
It would have been better if Jon cut down old blue flames, ran in and dove in front of the Night Kings killing blow with Long Claw, fights NK pitifully holding onto hope and just at the moment when you know NK is going to run Jon through, Click To View Spoiler

Would've been so much better.
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That would have been great. NK looks down in disbelief as the wound starts to chill and ice spreads over the dagger, then Jon rams longclaw into the same wound, the whole glade starts to ice over like someone opened an industrial-scale deep freeze unit. The wights begin to keel over, NK falls to his knees, and instead of shattering, turns into an ice sculpture with two blades embedded in it.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:30:51 PM EST
[#46]
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I'm really disappointed with how Nymeria's story went in the show. At least in the books Arya keeps dreaming of her (which are obviously not dreams but projections) and stories keep popping up about a direwolf female-lead wolf pack ambushing people.

Here's to hoping they make a trip through the Riverlands and see her one last time in the show.
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Come to think of it: of the 6 Stark direwolves 4 are dead and not one of them was given a good onscreen death.

Lady obliviously gets her throat cut.

Grey Wind gets killed with crossbows while he is caged due to his owner's stupidity.

Shaggydog gets killed off screen.

Summer was given the best death by far and it was simply him lasting about .87 seconds against wights before getting stabbed to death.  He sacrificed his life to buy Bran an extra two seconds.
I'm really disappointed with how Nymeria's story went in the show. At least in the books Arya keeps dreaming of her (which are obviously not dreams but projections) and stories keep popping up about a direwolf female-lead wolf pack ambushing people.

Here's to hoping they make a trip through the Riverlands and see her one last time in the show.
That'd be nice, but unfortunately with the massive amount of the CGI budget spent on the dragons it doesn't seem very likely.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:33:00 PM EST
[#47]
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They’re hardly unstoppable. Jaquen was captured and going to die in a cage until Arya saved him.
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A man knows a man was willingly in the cage because the Many Faced God wanted a man to meet a girl...
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:34:04 PM EST
[#48]
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So you'd be cool with a cliché and predictable prophecy fulfillment outcome like that but what did happen was a bridge too far?

How would Jon Snow getting into a 1v1 with the Nightking and winning be any less of Deus ex Machina than what happened?

Arya killing the Nightking is the Red Wedding of plot devices to y'alls hopes for what should have been but wasn't.

The Nightking should have steamrolled everybody, everything else is bad writing. Change my mind.
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Jon is predictable because literally the entire story is set in motion by his father choosing to create him for that very purpose. Rhaegar read and studied and came to believe that him fulfilling the prophecies was necessary to save mankind.

Rhaegar chose to sacrifice his honor, his family's legacy, and plunge his kingdom into a brutal civil war because JON was necessary to save mankind. Everything known about Rhaegar indicates he was not the kind of person to do that lightly. Everything in the books and in the show when it was following the books demonstrate the importance and validity of those prophecies. The show even makes a point of showing Jon born under the bleeding star with Dawn leaned against the bed.

Then we watch this last episode and Arya saves mankind. Jon had very little significant impact on the outcome. I can accept it if we don't get the interview afterwards with D&D saying essentially that they came up with Arya being the one to do it just because it seemed like a good idea. It wasn't some carefully reasoned demonstration of the fallibility of prophecy and the perils of trying to live according to it. Just a pure subvert the expectations choice.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:34:10 PM EST
[#49]
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Quoted:

So you'd be cool with a cliché and predictable prophecy fulfillment outcome like that but what did happen was a bridge too far?

How would Jon Snow getting into a 1v1 with the Nightking and winning be any less of Deus ex Machina than what happened?

Arya killing the Nightking is the Red Wedding of plot devices to y'alls hopes for what should have been but wasn't.

The Nightking should have steamrolled everybody, everything else is bad writing. Change my mind.
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Why do you guys keep yammering about “oh sooooo predictable, that would suck”.

Unpredictability for the sake of unpredictability isn’t what makes for good entertainment. If it did TLJ wouldn’t suck, M. Night Shamalan would be the greatest director in film history, biopics wouldn’t exist, movies based on true stories wouldn’t be made, and Marvel movies would have stopped 8 years ago.

Proper execution through good acting, cinematography, sound/music, and telling the story well make for good entertainment. Not every event in GOT has been an “OMG shocking twist” moment. You can build up to an event and then make it happen.
Link Posted: 5/1/2019 1:36:24 PM EST
[#50]
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You somehow missed that she evaded an entire army of soldiers in an open field without being noticed. Was she wearing Frodo’s cloak of invisibility?
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Arya left Melisandre before the Night King was knocked off his dragon, and raised the second wave of the undead.  They're was a ebb in their numbers, dead undead were everywhere.  You can see them all over the area outside of Winterfell, in the room Melisandre set Arya off in, and throughout the castle.   There were plenty of dead undead faces Arya could have used, or she could have just used her skills to get into position before the Night King even entered Winterfell and remained unseen until it came time to act, which is what she trained to do as an assassin.

Earlier in the episode we saw her evading and maneuvering through, around, and even over mobs of undead.  So yes, I think it was very plausible for her to get into position. I also think it helped that she started her maneuver when there were the least number of undead still moving.
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