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Posted: 7/15/2019 5:18:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Boeing ditches 737 Max name on new Ryanair plane
"A Boeing 737 Max due to be delivered to Ryanair has had the model's name changed on the nose of the aircraft, it has emerged. Photos shared on Twitter show a plane in Ryanair colours outside Boeing's manufacturing base, with the name 737 Max replaced by 737-8200. It has fuelled speculation that the troubled Max will be rebranded after two fatal accidents led to a worldwide grounding. " |
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Posted: 7/15/2019 11:36:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Aviation experts expect Boeing 737 Max jets to be grounded into 2020
"Many aviation experts say the grounded Boeing 737 Max jets won't return to service until sometime in 2020. Fort Worth-based American Airlines extended its plan to fly without the jets into November. But Wall Street Journal FAA sources say those jets will stay grounded when the busy Thanksgiving and Christmas travel seasons come. Right now, airlines are grounding the planes through the start of November and getting awfully close to Thanksgiving and Christmas. One aviation expert expects cancellations to continue into next year. |
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Posted: 7/16/2019 1:30:10 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boeing ditches 737 Max name on new Ryanair plane https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/7BDD/production/_107890713_d_fclx0u0aa4_vz.jpg "A Boeing 737 Max due to be delivered to Ryanair has had the model's name changed on the nose of the aircraft, it has emerged. Photos shared on Twitter show a plane in Ryanair colours outside Boeing's manufacturing base, with the name 737 Max replaced by 737-8200. It has fuelled speculation that the troubled Max will be rebranded after two fatal accidents led to a worldwide grounding. " The re-badging doesn't seem to be following his institutional wisdom. I'm wondering how severe the changes are now that it's a couple months later and there hasn't even been word of a fix, only the discovery of another problem. That seems pretty drastic for what is, at heart, a software problem. If they're talking about next year, I'm wondering if a physical/equipment change is becoming an option, anything from separate powered trim or new flight computer with more processing power or something. Originally, the AoA disagree warning upgrade was the proposed fix and apparently that didn't pass? |
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Posted: 7/16/2019 2:51:49 AM EDT
[#4]
737-8200 special plane for Ryan air. 200 seats in a 737-8 no thank you.
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Posted: 7/16/2019 3:34:09 AM EDT
[#5]
I hope boeing figures this shit out, I can say from first hand experience, max's in all forms (8's, 9's and the new 10's) are still going out the door, where they begin. Granted they are going to storage which is getting ready to fuck the workforce without lube as it's contract time in less than a year.
Yeah boeing has dropped their rate, but the suppliers only went back 1 step before the last rate increase I can't remember the numbers right now, but I think boeing is doing 32 planes a month, but the supplier is pumping out 47. Supplier was supposed to be at 52, looking to go to 59 if I remember right. I could be off a plane or 3 on all these numbers. I'm too busy doing my job to really pay attention to too many details. |
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Posted: 7/16/2019 11:37:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Boeing 737 Max grounding hits Southwest’s pilot hiring
"Southwest Airlines said it delayed hiring for two classes of new pilots, which have about 25 apiece, and postponed captain upgrades for two other classes of current pilots because it isn’t clear when the Max planes will fly again. Dallas-based Southwest is the biggest U.S. operator of the Boeing 737 Max with 34 in its fleet of around 750 aircraft. “All of these classes were scheduled to take place in either September, October, or December of this year to support our previously anticipated delivery of 37 MAX 8 and 7 MAX 7 aircraft in 2019,” Southwest said in a statement. “Once we have more clarity on the return-to-service date of the MAX, and future MAX delivery timelines, we will look towards reinstating classes, as needed, to support the expected growth of our fleet.”" |
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Posted: 7/17/2019 2:43:56 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boeing 737 Max grounding hits Southwest’s pilot hiring "Southwest Airlines said it delayed hiring for two classes of new pilots, which have about 25 apiece, and postponed captain upgrades for two other classes of current pilots because it isn’t clear when the Max planes will fly again. Dallas-based Southwest is the biggest U.S. operator of the Boeing 737 Max with 34 in its fleet of around 750 aircraft. “All of these classes were scheduled to take place in either September, October, or December of this year to support our previously anticipated delivery of 37 MAX 8 and 7 MAX 7 aircraft in 2019,” Southwest said in a statement. “Once we have more clarity on the return-to-service date of the MAX, and future MAX delivery timelines, we will look towards reinstating classes, as needed, to support the expected growth of our fleet.”" 
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Posted: 7/17/2019 9:08:11 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I keep hearing "Pilot Training", but that means nothing with regards to the Lion Air that went down earlier. They knew nothing of the MCAS subsystem or how to respond in time. The issues made loud are now added to: Manual trim physically too difficult to operate at speed and flight computer overload/lag issue. Those two problems are in addition to strictly limiting MCAS control range and alerting pilots via AoA mismatch or MCAS active/auto trim alert on PFD. This has turned into a far bigger hairball than I first thought. We probably haven't heard the end of it, they seem to ignore the Lion Air crash entirely so pilots can be blamed. Boeing's attitude about bad pilots is making it worse for them in the public eye. Pilots shouldn't need training on how to fight an airplane that thinks it knows what to do better than them. In looking at this as someone with no expertise, the above highlighted sentence is the damning: It looks to the average passenger that the plane just went crazy. That a modern plane, which is essentially set up to fly itself, decided to fly itself into the ground. My second impression here is that the problems must run very deep with the 737: the political pressure from the parties involved, Boeing, the airlines, and the Administration, must be enormous. And yet the plane is still grounded. As an aside, it's also clear that the airlines are storing up a lot of passenger animosity with thousands of cancellations: it appears to be possible, but difficult, to get a refund on the tickets. And, if you do, and have to rebook, the prices will be higher. And the airlines seem to be attempting to rebook in a very tight market, so folks are finding that they are being given very bizarre and inconvenient alternatives to their original booking. |
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Posted: 7/17/2019 10:48:26 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boeing 737 Max crash: Did foreign pilots have enough training to fly commercial jets? "In the final, harrowing seconds of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302, the pilots tried desperately to keep their Boeing 737 Max aloft. Nothing worked. Not pulling back on the yoke to try to get the nose up. Not attempting to adjust the trim, the preliminary report on the crash would show. Making matters worse, multiple alarms, clackers and other audible warnings distracted the pair. The jet crashed in March outside Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, killing 157. The crash laid bare Boeing's shortcomings in having designed an automated flight system that overrode the actions of the flight crew. But it also raised questions about pilot experience — whether mistakes were made in the cockpit and whether foreign airlines require pilots to have enough training. Those questions will be at the fore Monday, when a committee of the United Nations-backed body that sets international standards for air travel is scheduled to take a fresh look at pilot requirements."
Let’s let IATA in the room, too. We KNOW they’re honest. TC |
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Posted: 7/17/2019 10:53:13 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I keep hearing "Pilot Training", but that means nothing with regards to the Lion Air that went down earlier. They knew nothing of the MCAS subsystem or how to respond in time. The issues made loud are now added to: Manual trim physically too difficult to operate at speed and flight computer overload/lag issue. Those two problems are in addition to strictly limiting MCAS control range and alerting pilots via AoA mismatch or MCAS active/auto trim alert on PFD. This has turned into a far bigger hairball than I first thought. We probably haven't heard the end of it, they seem to ignore the Lion Air crash entirely so pilots can be blamed. Boeing's attitude about bad pilots is making it worse for them in the public eye. Pilots shouldn't need training on how to fight an airplane that thinks it knows what to do better than them. Bold part: But how would we operate Airbuses?  Kidding. I like the bus so far...
TC |
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Posted: 7/17/2019 11:05:23 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Southwest reissues 737 safety cards to allay MAX fears "A few months ago, not long after the FAA ordered the grounding of all Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, we noted that the seatback safety information cards in Southwest Airlines' 737-800s might be a cause of confusion and concern for some customers because the cards referenced both the 737-800 and the 737 MAX 8. At the time, Southwest didn't think it would be a problem, but in recent weeks the airline has quietly replaced those safety cards with new ones that only mention the 737-800. The earlier safety cards were issued before the MAX grounding because the same safety information applied to both aircraft types, Southwest told us at the time. But infrequent travelers who weren't aware of the FAA-ordered grounding might have thought 737 MAX 8 was just another way of referring to a 737-800. A Southwest official told USA Today this week that the cards were changed "to alleviate any confusion from customers so they know exactly what type of aircraft they are on." A separate new safety card was also printed for the MAX 8, but it obviously won't be seen until that aircraft starts flying again." Boeing screwed up BIG TIME. A press release and some feel good ads won’t fix this. TC |
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Posted: 7/17/2019 11:09:06 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, Boeing 
TC |
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Posted: 7/17/2019 5:30:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It’s a HUGE f’ing problem, SWA. People DO NOT WANT TO FLY ON THAT PLANE! I commute on you guys and everyone I sit next to asks about it and “even when it’s fixed, I don’t trust them”. Boeing screwed up BIG TIME. A press release and some feel good ads won’t fix this. TC Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Southwest reissues 737 safety cards to allay MAX fears "A few months ago, not long after the FAA ordered the grounding of all Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, we noted that the seatback safety information cards in Southwest Airlines' 737-800s might be a cause of confusion and concern for some customers because the cards referenced both the 737-800 and the 737 MAX 8. At the time, Southwest didn't think it would be a problem, but in recent weeks the airline has quietly replaced those safety cards with new ones that only mention the 737-800. The earlier safety cards were issued before the MAX grounding because the same safety information applied to both aircraft types, Southwest told us at the time. But infrequent travelers who weren't aware of the FAA-ordered grounding might have thought 737 MAX 8 was just another way of referring to a 737-800. A Southwest official told USA Today this week that the cards were changed "to alleviate any confusion from customers so they know exactly what type of aircraft they are on." A separate new safety card was also printed for the MAX 8, but it obviously won't be seen until that aircraft starts flying again." Boeing screwed up BIG TIME. A press release and some feel good ads won’t fix this. TC How much commonality is there with the previous iterations? Canabirds galore. |
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Posted: 7/17/2019 5:39:19 PM EDT
[#14]
The 737 max should be scrapped and all orders cancelled in my opinion. The whole situation has been a cluster from the start.
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Posted: 7/17/2019 11:56:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Boeing hires 9/11 compensation fund lawyer to dole out $50 million to victims of 737 Max crashes
"Boeing has shifted its stance on how it plans to compensate families of those who died in two 737 Max crashes in the last year. The company announced Wednesday that it has set aside $50 million to give directly to victims' families. Boeing (BA) had previously said it would pay out $100 million to local nonprofits and community groups that will distribute the funds to the relatives of the 346 people who died. To facilitate the distribution of funds, Boeing has hired attorney Kenneth Feinberg and his colleague, Camille Biros, to come up with a formula to determine who gets how much money. Feinberg's Washington-based firm has overseen distribution to victims of several major events, such as the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, and the BP Deepwater Horizon oil spill. Some family members had criticized Boeing's initial commitment to distribute funds. At a congressional hearing Wednesday on the 737 Max crisis, Michael Stumo, the father of victim Samya Stumo, said Boeing's initial announcement "seemed like a PR stunt to us." " |
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Posted: 7/18/2019 5:22:51 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boeing hires 9/11 compensation fund lawyer to dole out $50 million to victims of 737 Max crashes "Boeing has shifted its stance on how it plans to compensate families of those who died in two 737 Max crashes in the last year. The company announced Wednesday that it has set aside $50 million to give directly to victims' families. Boeing (BA) had previously said it would pay out $100 million to local nonprofits and community groups that will distribute the funds to the relatives of the 346 people who died. To facilitate the distribution of funds, Boeing has hired attorney Kenneth Feinberg and his colleague, Camille Biros, to come up with a formula to determine who gets how much money. Feinberg's Washington-based firm has overseen distribution to victims of several major events, such as the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, and the BP Deepwater Horizon oil spill. Some family members had criticized Boeing's initial commitment to distribute funds. At a congressional hearing Wednesday on the 737 Max crisis, Michael Stumo, the father of victim Samya Stumo, said Boeing's initial announcement "seemed like a PR stunt to us." " Fortunately, stupid hurts. And I don’t think Boeing has even begun to feel the true pain of their actions. Ultimately, I wouldn’t be surprised if the MCAS system were scrapped altogether. If not, I’d envision that any pilots flying the Max will need to undergo training or earn a new type rating (sorry if I’m getting the nomenclature wrong); which will be done on Boeing’s dime. They concealed their attempt to force a square peg into a round hole. Had that decision go south on them. Continued to brush it under the rug. But are finally paying for those decisions. I don’t think there are many who believe Boeing will actually make things right. And that could prove to be very costly for them. As it should. |
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Posted: 7/18/2019 2:05:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Southwest Airlines yanks Boeing 737 Max from schedules through early November with no end in sight to grounding
"Uncertainty over when regulators will allow the Boeing 737 Max to fly again following two deadly crashes prompted Southwest Airlines, the largest U.S. operator of the jets, to remove them from its schedules through early November — a month longer than it estimated in late June. Southwest’s move follows similar schedule changes announced over the last week by American and United. Southwest said Thursday it will cancel about 180 flights a day out of about 4,000 flights because of the schedule change. Last month, the Dallas-based airline said it was targeting October for the planes’ return, which would have meant 150 daily flight cancellations." |
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Posted: 7/18/2019 2:56:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They maintained take off thrust throughout the incident. IMO, that’s very much a contributing factor. It’s a training and experience issue. Bold part: But how would we operate Airbuses? Kidding. I like the bus so far...
TC Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I keep hearing "Pilot Training", but that means nothing with regards to the Lion Air that went down earlier. They knew nothing of the MCAS subsystem or how to respond in time. The issues made loud are now added to: Manual trim physically too difficult to operate at speed and flight computer overload/lag issue. Those two problems are in addition to strictly limiting MCAS control range and alerting pilots via AoA mismatch or MCAS active/auto trim alert on PFD. This has turned into a far bigger hairball than I first thought. We probably haven't heard the end of it, they seem to ignore the Lion Air crash entirely so pilots can be blamed. Boeing's attitude about bad pilots is making it worse for them in the public eye. Pilots shouldn't need training on how to fight an airplane that thinks it knows what to do better than them. Bold part: But how would we operate Airbuses? Kidding. I like the bus so far...
TC If they weren't grounded, and pilots followed the procedures, no other changes (AoA disagree alert, etc) implemented, we'd likely see another one planted before this same process was repeated. That would then also be the pilot's fault. Like the Reliant Robin crashes caused only because of bad drivers.
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Posted: 7/18/2019 3:09:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks, Boeing |
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Posted: 7/18/2019 7:02:25 PM EDT
[#20]
Boeing Plans $5 Billion Charge to Compensate 737 MAX Customers
"Boeing will set aside about $5 billion to compensate airlines which have suffered because of the prolonged grounding of the 737 MAX plane. Chicago-based Boeing also faces litigation seeking compensation for families of the 346 people who died in two crashes, as well as higher costs after curtailing production of the MAX following its grounding by global regulators in March. " Initially I thought it was for the people killed. It seems to be to compensate airlines who fly the Max. |
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Posted: 7/18/2019 8:07:03 PM EDT
[#21]
I think it’s 5M for the families and 5B for the customers.
ETA: not sure about the shareholders... |
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Posted: 7/19/2019 3:24:33 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boeing Plans $5 Billion Charge to Compensate 737 MAX Customers "Boeing will set aside about $5 billion to compensate airlines which have suffered because of the prolonged grounding of the 737 MAX plane. Chicago-based Boeing also faces litigation seeking compensation for families of the 346 people who died in two crashes, as well as higher costs after curtailing production of the MAX following its grounding by global regulators in March. " Initially I thought it was for the people killed. It seems to be to compensate airlines who fly the Max. “Oh, we just feel terrible about all the families who lost loved ones. Here’s 50 million dollars for all 346 of you split. On a related note, we understand the grounding has really inconvenienced some airline companies. So, here’s 5 billion dollars for your troubles.” I get why they’re doing it. They’re hemorrhaging money and likely fear more airlines will pull their orders. But it just makes their whole issue of putting dollars over people seem even more ludicrous. |
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Posted: 7/19/2019 3:31:31 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it just me, or do the optics of this make Boeing look absolutely tone deaf? “Oh, we just feel terrible about all the families who lost loved ones. Here’s 50 million dollars for all 346 of you split. On a related note, we understand the grounding has really inconvenienced some airline companies. So, here’s 5 billion dollars for your troubles.” I get why they’re doing it. They’re hemorrhaging money and likely fear more airlines will pull their orders. But it just makes their whole issue of putting dollars over people seem even more ludicrous. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Boeing Plans $5 Billion Charge to Compensate 737 MAX Customers "Boeing will set aside about $5 billion to compensate airlines which have suffered because of the prolonged grounding of the 737 MAX plane. Chicago-based Boeing also faces litigation seeking compensation for families of the 346 people who died in two crashes, as well as higher costs after curtailing production of the MAX following its grounding by global regulators in March. " Initially I thought it was for the people killed. It seems to be to compensate airlines who fly the Max. “Oh, we just feel terrible about all the families who lost loved ones. Here’s 50 million dollars for all 346 of you split. On a related note, we understand the grounding has really inconvenienced some airline companies. So, here’s 5 billion dollars for your troubles.” I get why they’re doing it. They’re hemorrhaging money and likely fear more airlines will pull their orders. But it just makes their whole issue of putting dollars over people seem even more ludicrous. Look up the cost of a max, then multiply that by whatever % interest you think the airlines are paying. Then multiply that, by how many Maxs they have parked. Hint: it’s not a small number. |
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Posted: 7/19/2019 5:16:58 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Evidently, you don’t know how much airplanes cost, or how they are used. Look up the cost of a max, then multiply that by whatever % interest you think the airlines are paying. Then multiply that, by how many Maxs they have parked. Hint: it’s not a small number.  .Of course the airlines are losing money due to the grounding. I wasn’t contending that they have no claim of financial loss; which Boeing should be on the hook for. Well, in reality, Boeing’s insurer will likely be the first to cough up their policy limits. I also don’t know whether the insurers for each individual airline might be taking a hit as well; if the grounding might trigger coverage for lost business income. Sucks for the insurers...potentially the reinsurers .Regardless, I don’t doubt that Boeing will be paying something out of their own pockets. How much that’ll be is dependent upon the above, how long the grounding is in force, etc. My point was simply about the optics of such an enormous disconnect in what they’re setting aside between the airlines and victims. The dollar value for the former will likely be higher. But what they’ve currently allocated for the latter (publicly) is an absolute joke. That, and Boeing’s 5B pledge to the airlines certainly (IMHO) comes across as, “Please don’t head for the hills. We’ll take care of you while we get this whole planes lawn-darting thing sorted out.” The airlines will get their restitution one way or another. Boeing knows that. It’s an empty show of good faith for the sake of trying to stop the bleed. |
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Posted: 7/19/2019 8:59:25 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Evidently I needed to expound further on the, “I get why they’re doing it” comment .Of course the airlines are losing money due to the grounding. I wasn’t contending that they have no claim of financial loss; which Boeing should be on the hook for. Well, in reality, Boeing’s insurer will likely be the first to cough up their policy limits. I also don’t know whether the insurers for each individual airline might be taking a hit as well; if the grounding might trigger coverage for lost business income. Sucks for the insurers...potentially the reinsurers .Regardless, I don’t doubt that Boeing will be paying something out of their own pockets. How much that’ll be is dependent upon the above, how long the grounding is in force, etc. My point was simply about the optics of such an enormous disconnect in what they’re setting aside between the airlines and victims. The dollar value for the former will likely be higher. But what they’ve currently allocated for the latter (publicly) is an absolute joke. That, and Boeing’s 5B pledge to the airlines certainly (IMHO) comes across as, “Please don’t head for the hills. We’ll take care of you while we get this whole planes lawn-darting thing sorted out.” The airlines will get their restitution one way or another. Boeing knows that. It’s an empty show of good faith for the sake of trying to stop the bleed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Evidently, you don’t know how much airplanes cost, or how they are used. Look up the cost of a max, then multiply that by whatever % interest you think the airlines are paying. Then multiply that, by how many Maxs they have parked. Hint: it’s not a small number. .Of course the airlines are losing money due to the grounding. I wasn’t contending that they have no claim of financial loss; which Boeing should be on the hook for. Well, in reality, Boeing’s insurer will likely be the first to cough up their policy limits. I also don’t know whether the insurers for each individual airline might be taking a hit as well; if the grounding might trigger coverage for lost business income. Sucks for the insurers...potentially the reinsurers .Regardless, I don’t doubt that Boeing will be paying something out of their own pockets. How much that’ll be is dependent upon the above, how long the grounding is in force, etc. My point was simply about the optics of such an enormous disconnect in what they’re setting aside between the airlines and victims. The dollar value for the former will likely be higher. But what they’ve currently allocated for the latter (publicly) is an absolute joke. That, and Boeing’s 5B pledge to the airlines certainly (IMHO) comes across as, “Please don’t head for the hills. We’ll take care of you while we get this whole planes lawn-darting thing sorted out.” The airlines will get their restitution one way or another. Boeing knows that. It’s an empty show of good faith for the sake of trying to stop the bleed. You can bet Boeing has been having conversations about forms of compensation with the customers themselves behind closed doors for months now. |
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Posted: 7/20/2019 11:06:57 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm kind of surprised that the FAA doesn't mandate that at least major customers of a given type of plane should be required to have full featured simulators for training in that type, simulators as good as the manufacturer uses. If those customers had the same simulators as Boeing uses for testing, then those customers could contribute meaningfully to test programs that would be able to quickly rack up lots of hours testing changes to software and procedures. I'm kind of surprised Boeing doesn't require that of its major customers, too. "If you want to buy more than 20 737-9 Maxes, you have to get a Max 9 simulator installed in your training facility as well." The MCAS was developed to make it the same type as those. Didnt work out so well. This is all a money saving, training saving, make it bigger but the same, cluster fuck |
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Posted: 7/20/2019 1:36:58 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s a HUGE f’ing problem, SWA. People DO NOT WANT TO FLY ON THAT PLANE! I commute on you guys and everyone I sit next to asks about it and “even when it’s fixed, I don’t trust them”. Boeing screwed up BIG TIME. A press release and some feel good ads won’t fix this. TC |
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Posted: 7/20/2019 3:52:40 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's kinda how I'm feeling. I don't think I want to fly on a Max Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It’s a HUGE f’ing problem, SWA. People DO NOT WANT TO FLY ON THAT PLANE! I commute on you guys and everyone I sit next to asks about it and “even when it’s fixed, I don’t trust them”. Boeing screwed up BIG TIME. A press release and some feel good ads won’t fix this. TC What has come out is bad enough, and we don't know if there are additional issues found which are pushing the planned fix date into the future. |
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Posted: 7/20/2019 3:57:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Short the fuck out of Boeing
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Posted: 7/20/2019 4:00:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
737-8200 special plane for Ryan air. 200 seats in a 737-8 no thank you. But yeah, cattle car version. |
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Posted: 7/20/2019 4:00:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's kinda how I'm feeling. I don't think I want to fly on a Max Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It's a HUGE f'ing problem, SWA. People DO NOT WANT TO FLY ON THAT PLANE! I commute on you guys and everyone I sit next to asks about it and "even when it's fixed, I don't trust them". Boeing screwed up BIG TIME. A press release and some feel good ads won't fix this. TC |
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Posted: 7/20/2019 4:05:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boeing ditches 737 Max name on new Ryanair plane https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/7BDD/production/_107890713_d_fclx0u0aa4_vz.jpg "A Boeing 737 Max due to be delivered to Ryanair has had the model's name changed on the nose of the aircraft, it has emerged. Photos shared on Twitter show a plane in Ryanair colours outside Boeing's manufacturing base, with the name 737 Max replaced by 737-8200. It has fuelled speculation that the troubled Max will be rebranded after two fatal accidents led to a worldwide grounding. " |
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Posted: 7/20/2019 6:32:49 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I suspect after all of this attention they should be fine. Way too much attention to what happened and catastrophe for Boeing if it happens again. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: It's a HUGE f'ing problem, SWA. People DO NOT WANT TO FLY ON THAT PLANE! I commute on you guys and everyone I sit next to asks about it and "even when it's fixed, I don't trust them". Boeing screwed up BIG TIME. A press release and some feel good ads won't fix this. TC |
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Posted: 7/25/2019 9:56:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Southwest cancels Max flights through 5 January 2020.
"Southwest also said it has removed the Boeing 737 Max 8 from its schedule through Jan. 5, which covers the busy holiday travel season. It is the first airline to extend Max cancellations past early November. Earlier this month, Southwest and other carriers extended cancellations into November. Southwest is the largest U.S. operator of the Max, with 34 of the planes at the time of the grounding in March." |
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Posted: 7/25/2019 11:42:44 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Southwest cancels Max flights through 5 January 2020. "Southwest also said it has removed the Boeing 737 Max 8 from its schedule through Jan. 5, which covers the busy holiday travel season. It is the first airline to extend Max cancellations past early November. Earlier this month, Southwest and other carriers extended cancellations into November. Southwest is the largest U.S. operator of the Max, with 34 of the planes at the time of the grounding in March." |
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Posted: 7/26/2019 12:52:27 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boeing hires 9/11 compensation fund lawyer to dole out $50 million to victims of 737 Max crashes "Boeing has shifted its stance on how it plans to compensate families of those who died in two 737 Max crashes in the last year. The company announced Wednesday that it has set aside $50 million to give directly to victims' families. Boeing (BA) had previously said it would pay out $100 million to local nonprofits and community groups that will distribute the funds to the relatives of the 346 people who died. To facilitate the distribution of funds, Boeing has hired attorney Kenneth Feinberg and his colleague, Camille Biros, to come up with a formula to determine who gets how much money. Feinberg's Washington-based firm has overseen distribution to victims of several major events, such as the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, and the BP Deepwater Horizon oil spill. Some family members had criticized Boeing's initial commitment to distribute funds. At a congressional hearing Wednesday on the 737 Max crisis, Michael Stumo, the father of victim Samya Stumo, said Boeing's initial announcement "seemed like a PR stunt to us." The local DFW news was saying this morning that Southwest has lost something on the order of $200 million since their 737 Max planes are grounded. American Airlines is losing $180 million per quarter. Looks Like that may continue into 2020. Those are some major losses and not the fault of the carriers. |
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Posted: 7/26/2019 1:14:57 AM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 7/26/2019 10:19:01 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The last time they extended cancellations we heard about that hardware lagging issue about a week later. I'm wondering if there's an additional 'quirk' found that also needs to be addressed now? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Southwest cancels Max flights through 5 January 2020. "Southwest also said it has removed the Boeing 737 Max 8 from its schedule through Jan. 5, which covers the busy holiday travel season. It is the first airline to extend Max cancellations past early November. Earlier this month, Southwest and other carriers extended cancellations into November. Southwest is the largest U.S. operator of the Max, with 34 of the planes at the time of the grounding in March." I think the FAA will require type ratings, and I know the training curriculum is in work. I won't be surprised if the airplane gets a type certificate. If a reworked airworthiness rep program has to be in place before flying, I have no idea how. |
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Posted: 7/26/2019 3:30:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Short the fuck out of Boeing In the end, employees will pay, shareholders will pay, and if worse comes to worst, taxpayers will pay... Executives (who are the ones at fault) will still get their golden parachutes. |
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Posted: 7/26/2019 3:34:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boeing C-suiters know that whatever happens, they are too big to fail, and will get bailed out if things ever get too bad. In the end, employees will pay, shareholders will pay, and if worse comes to worst, taxpayers will pay... Executives (who are the ones at fault) will still get their golden parachutes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Short the fuck out of Boeing In the end, employees will pay, shareholders will pay, and if worse comes to worst, taxpayers will pay... Executives (who are the ones at fault) will still get their golden parachutes. |
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Posted: 7/26/2019 3:36:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Boeing CEO stated that people have a short memory and this will all blow over. |
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Posted: 7/26/2019 3:48:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Boeing C-suiters know that whatever happens, they are too big to fail, and will get bailed out if things ever get too bad. In the end, employees will pay, shareholders will pay, and if worse comes to worst, taxpayers will pay... Executives (who are the ones at fault) will still get their golden parachutes. |
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Posted: 7/26/2019 4:03:24 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 737 max should be scrapped and all orders cancelled in my opinion. The whole situation has been a cluster from the start. It's annoying to be told... "sorry the plane cannot take off because it's too hot, we can look to book you on another flight today, or spend the night for a morning flight out." Of course, the likely plane to be rebooked on for that day is a 757. |
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Posted: 7/26/2019 4:19:34 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It certainly is looking more and more like the thing to do. I wonder how hard is Boeing looking for a quick replacement of the 737. One of the most annoying features of the 737 as a frequent flyer is the wing is too dam small. On hot summer days in AZ, I've been on cancelled flights because it's too hot for that wing. It's annoying to be told... "sorry the plane cannot take off because it's too hot, we can look to book you on another flight today, or spend the night for a morning flight out." Of course, the likely plane to be rebooked on for that day is a 757. |
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Posted: 7/26/2019 4:29:15 PM EDT
[#45]
Acquaintance/former co-worker is a retired cop and went out there last year to work as some major Boeing security guy. Wonder what's going-on in his head as all of this unfolds. Not his fault and he's already retired once, but still... would make you wonder about your luck.
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Posted: 7/26/2019 11:09:05 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is an issue I've never heard about. I'd like to know more. I imagine the same issue would be a problem at a high altitude airport, like the one in my county (6450'). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It certainly is looking more and more like the thing to do. I wonder how hard is Boeing looking for a quick replacement of the 737. One of the most annoying features of the 737 as a frequent flyer is the wing is too dam small. On hot summer days in AZ, I've been on cancelled flights because it's too hot for that wing. It's annoying to be told... "sorry the plane cannot take off because it's too hot, we can look to book you on another flight today, or spend the night for a morning flight out." Of course, the likely plane to be rebooked on for that day is a 757. |
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Posted: 7/27/2019 11:58:50 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is an issue I've never heard about. I'd like to know more. I imagine the same issue would be a problem at a high altitude airport, like the one in my county (6450'). So, it could perceivably be an issue at any airport if the conditions are right (wrong). Hopefully someone with more expertise can come along and correct anything I’ve overlooked or misstated. |
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Posted: 7/28/2019 12:14:40 AM EDT
[#48]
In 1992 I was flying from Denver to Houston. It was right at 100F in Denver. Airline said they couldn't take off with enough fuel to make it to Houston. We took off, landed in Oklahoma city, refueld, then made the last hop to Houston. I'm not sure what plane it was, possibly a 737. There was a grand total of 5 passangers. 3 in my party and 2 other people.
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Posted: 7/28/2019 12:24:36 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It certainly is looking more and more like the thing to do. I wonder how hard is Boeing looking for a quick replacement of the 737. One of the most annoying features of the 737 as a frequent flyer is the wing is too dam small. On hot summer days in AZ, I've been on cancelled flights because it's too hot for that wing. It's annoying to be told... "sorry the plane cannot take off because it's too hot, we can look to book you on another flight today, or spend the night for a morning flight out." Of course, the likely plane to be rebooked on for that day is a 757. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The 737 max should be scrapped and all orders cancelled in my opinion. The whole situation has been a cluster from the start. It's annoying to be told... "sorry the plane cannot take off because it's too hot, we can look to book you on another flight today, or spend the night for a morning flight out." Of course, the likely plane to be rebooked on for that day is a 757. |
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Posted: 7/28/2019 1:31:25 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I can find, Lion Air reduced thrust and crashed, the first one. If they weren't grounded, and pilots followed the procedures, no other changes (AoA disagree alert, etc) implemented, we'd likely see another one planted before this same process was repeated. That would then also be the pilot's fault. Like the Reliant Robin crashes caused only because of bad drivers.  Failed To Load Title |
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