[ARCHIVED THREAD] - HOMEBREWERS OF ARFCOM UNITE!!! GoatBoy will create a homebrew subforum if we can get the support!!! (Page 4 of 7)
To actually answer your question on the cider since after 4 pages no one bothered....
You can definitely add sugar to get you up to 1.060, use brown sugar if you want a little extra flavor. As for your plan to keep it sweet, your best bet is to just fully ferment it out, then throw in a can of apple juice concentrate when you keg it, making sure of course to cold crash and of course force carbonate only. She probably won't want to share... |
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To actually answer your question on the cider since after 4 pages no one bothered....
You can definitely add sugar to get you up to 1.060, use brown sugar if you want a little extra flavor. As for your plan to keep it sweet, your best bet is to just fully ferment it out, then throw in a can of apple juice concentrate when you keg it, making sure of course to cold crash and of course force carbonate only. She probably won't want to share... I think I read recently that someone poured a bottle of diet sprite in. Gave it the sweetness without fermentable sugars. Turned out good. |
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To actually answer your question on the cider since after 4 pages no one bothered....
You can definitely add sugar to get you up to 1.060, use brown sugar if you want a little extra flavor. As for your plan to keep it sweet, your best bet is to just fully ferment it out, then throw in a can of apple juice concentrate when you keg it, making sure of course to cold crash and of course force carbonate only. She probably won't want to share... I think I read recently that someone poured a bottle of diet sprite in. Gave it the sweetness without fermentable sugars. Turned out good. WHat kind of timeframe is involved in cider? Am I able to get it into a keg in 2 weeks? |
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Cheers to a new Brewing forum.
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A lot of guys do it because it's a cool hobby. I like it particularly because of the self reliance factor. I grow my own hops and will soon be building a stir plate to be more involved with the yeast. I just built a mash tun and hot liquor tank. I plan to build a 1 tier brewing sculpture. I would like to see a picture thread dedicated to brewing sculpture 'builds.' Until then, off to google. |
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as a pro-brewer not home-brewer, I'll be a big part of it. answer questions n what not. been doing it for 6 years. if you like good beer chances are you've had something I've made.
edit: I've been meaning to put this out for a while, but for reals, if anyone has any q's about brewing better beer, just shoot me an pm |
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Cheers to a new Brewing forum. Quoted:
A lot of guys do it because it's a cool hobby. I like it particularly because of the self reliance factor. I grow my own hops and will soon be building a stir plate to be more involved with the yeast. I just built a mash tun and hot liquor tank. I plan to build a 1 tier brewing sculpture. I would like to see a picture thread dedicated to brewing sculpture 'builds.' Until then, off to google. I plan to build a system similar to the Brutus 10, but not fully automated. Takes the fun out of brewing. I'm building it out of mild steel instead of stainless, too. 
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as a pro-brewer not home-brewer, I'll be a big part of it. answer questions n what not. been doing it for 6 years. if you like good beer chances are you've had something I've made.edit: I've been meaning to put this out for a while, but for reals, if anyone has any q's about brewing better beer, just shoot me an pm What have you made? |
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To actually answer your question on the cider since after 4 pages no one bothered....
You can definitely add sugar to get you up to 1.060, use brown sugar if you want a little extra flavor. As for your plan to keep it sweet, your best bet is to just fully ferment it out, then throw in a can of apple juice concentrate when you keg it, making sure of course to cold crash and of course force carbonate only. She probably won't want to share... I think I read recently that someone poured a bottle of diet sprite in. Gave it the sweetness without fermentable sugars. Turned out good. I thought about the apple juice, but again, it's a fermentable sugar. I did pick up a bag of splenda to back-sweeten, but I'm not 100% sure I'll/she'll like the taste given that we're both not a fan of chemically fake sugar taste (i.e. diet pop). I was hoping that by getting the OG up high, only letting it ferment to 1.020 or so, it would still be sweet by the time I cold crash it and hopefully get those yeasties dormant. Nottingham has a temp range of something like 54-70 degrees, the fridge and the kegerator are both around 40-45, so by keeping it that cold the Nottingham shouldn't go active again. I guess this is part of the fun, I'll try a few different things and see what works out best
I'm probably going to be making a wort chiller soon, so I could make a write-up if people were interested...wif pitchers an' everyfing! 
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They better not get a little beer pint icon. That's the best idea evar! 
And no, I don't want to moderate anything. I'll have my hands full just trying to help populate the forum with good info. Do you know how much there is to learn about brewing? I've spent all my free time (which, admittedly, isn't very much) in the last 3 years reading technical books on the subject and I still don't know it all. We're talking about a graduate-level science/art here, and to think you can fully absorb the subject by reading a few books at home is... Well, it's like saying you can learn everything there is about shooting by reading a few books and practicing at the 100-yard static known-distance range near your house. No doubt, you can get pretty good that way. But you're never going to know everything. You'll never really learn how to read wind just shooting at 100yds, for example, no matter how many books you read. There's a feel to it, and you just have to learn by experience. Anyhow... I've plenty more to say if/when the forum goes live. |
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To actually answer your question on the cider since after 4 pages no one bothered....
You can definitely add sugar to get you up to 1.060, use brown sugar if you want a little extra flavor. As for your plan to keep it sweet, your best bet is to just fully ferment it out, then throw in a can of apple juice concentrate when you keg it, making sure of course to cold crash and of course force carbonate only. She probably won't want to share... I think I read recently that someone poured a bottle of diet sprite in. Gave it the sweetness without fermentable sugars. Turned out good. I thought about the apple juice, but again, it's a fermentable sugar. I did pick up a bag of splenda to back-sweeten, but I'm not 100% sure I'll/she'll like the taste given that we're both not a fan of chemically fake sugar taste (i.e. diet pop). I was hoping that by getting the OG up high, only letting it ferment to 1.020 or so, it would still be sweet by the time I cold crash it and hopefully get those yeasties dormant. Nottingham has a temp range of something like 54-70 degrees, the fridge and the kegerator are both around 40-45, so by keeping it that cold the Nottingham shouldn't go active again. I guess this is part of the fun, I'll try a few different things and see what works out best
I'm probably going to be making a wort chiller soon, so I could make a write-up if people were interested...wif pitchers an' everyfing! My personal thoughts on residual sugar... Get there with full attenuation if at all possible. It's part of my overall philosophy of, "The yeast know what they're doing." You go messing with unfermentable sugars and backsweetening... I'm not saying that makes BAD brews (and certainly, there are plenty of styles that benefit from it, such as lactose-sweetened milk stouts) but for the most part, your beverages will be better if the yeast are allowed to complete their fermentation cycle. What this means for cider is selecting the right yeast, the right sugar source, and the right OG. All three of those will affect final gravity and residual sweetness, the yeast most of all, so it's a bit of a balancing act. Fortunately, cider is very inexpensive and easy to make, so you can afford to try a bunch of times. Do a big run of 1-gallon fermentations (directly inside the jug the apple juice comes in, if you're really lazy) and do a blind tasting to see which one(s) you like the best. Or, if that's too much for you, do this for a 6%, medium sweetness cider: * 5 gallons Kirkland apple juice - product may vary in your area, so check to make sure it does not contain any preservatives that will harm the yeast. Ascorbic acid, for example, is fine. * 2 pounds clover honey (Costco sells it cheap in 5lb jugs - I often make two batches with 10 gallons of juice and 5 lb of honey) * Nottingham dry yeast - (I ALWAYS make a 1 pint starter on wort, but EdWort's "shake and bake" method does work fine) - it's a British yeast that comes in a dry packet, so it's convenient for cider makers, and it finishes relatively sweet with an alcohol tolerance up to around 7-8%. 5gal+2lb will hit around 6.5%ABV, and you can adjust it up or down by about half a pound of honey. * OPTIONAL - Replace honey with fruit puree at 1:1. I've had good luck with strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, peaches, and cherries. I've not tried anything else. The amount of puree you use will depend on the strength of that fruit's flavor. Don't use more than a quarter pound of cherry, for example, but feel free to use all two pounds of strawberry. I really want to try watermellon for next Summer. How to get puree - buying it is the obvious example, but that's very expensive. Organic pie filling is cheaper than buying the brewer's purees, and it's *mostly* the same - be aware that they often contain gelatin and the pectin HAS been set, so you will get protein haze in your brew. the best option is, of course, to make it yourself. I have a "Mister Squeezo" strainer which is the ideal tool, but you can use a food processor as long as you don't mind tannins from the seeds and skins. After you press/strain/puree your fruit, mix it with a bit of the apple juice so it's not as think of a mush. Put it on the stove and you want to bring it up to 140*F and hold it there for at least 10 minutes. 15min is perfect. Just stir occasionally and enjoy a beer while you do it. This is a "low temperature, long time" Pasteurization. It's not hot enough to set the pectin in the fruit, but it will kill any bacteria that made its way into the fruit from the skins, your equipment, or any other sources. Then mix, pitch, and ferment as normal. Note: If you put one gallon of juice in the refrigerator, it'll bring the puree down to pitchable temperature once you mix everything together, so you won't need to use your chiller unless you want to. Rough substitution levels to my taste: Blueberry - 1lb in 5 gal. Peach - 3/4 lb in 5 gal. Raspberry - 1 1/2 lb in 5 gal. Cherry - 1/4 lb in 5 gal. Strawberry - 2 lb in 5 gal. One final tip: Because cider contains no nutrients for your yeast, it's a good idea to make a 1 pint starter using DME and a hop pellet or two. You won't taste "beer" in the final drink, but it'll ensure that your yeast get off to a healthy, rapid fermentation. Pitch at high krausen and your cider will be finished in under 10 days. It'll take another 2-3 weeks to condition the small amount of "hot" esters away. I also like to drop about 2 tbsp of yeast nutrient (NOT yeast energizer, your starter took care of that) into the juice for additional insurance. I don't actually buy yeast nutrient because it's wicked expensive. Go to GNC and buy a pound of "Brewer's Yeast Extract." It's the same thing (just dried, centrifuged yeast), but about 1/3 of the price. It's also super high in B vitamins so it'll help prevent hangovers, and since the yeast are dead it can't give you the runs like drinking a slug off the bottom of a keg might (personally, I am now immune to both hangovers and stomach ailments from drinking so much unfiltered homebrew). One final word of caution: Anyone who's tried EdWort's recipe understands the inherrent danger of something that's 7%ABV and tastes like apples. Your uninitiated guests have a habit of putting down a pint, remarking how good it is, going for a second, and then promptly becoming blubbering fools. This stuff can get you wrecked in a hurry, so please be careful with it. Before you know it, your house will be filled with the pleasant scent of rhino farts! |
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Just to clarify I'm not trying to make Apfelwein, I've already done that, I'm trying to make cider.
Here are the stats on Nottingham: A relatively neutral ale yeast, capable of medium-high attenuation. Has high flocculation rate, and can reach ABV of 11%-13% in normal conditions, 18% when adding Fermaid-K as fermentation progresses. Fast fermentations, frequently done in under 48 hours. So, given that the yeast, if allowed to go it's course, in this case, it will eat all of the sugar avab (let's say I add 2 pounds of sugar to 5 gallons of juice) in the fermenter, leaving no sweetness....like apfelwien; hence the cold crash question. I'm not planning on using the cold crash to clarify the cider but to knock the yeast out of action before they consume all the sugars. Make sense? If I try to back sweeten with a can of applejuice at kegging I'm slightly affraid that they'll come to life again, and hence the splenda idea. This makes me wonder how companies like Ace and Woodchuck make their ciders. Edit, now that I think about it, my idea would be the same as (for an easy exampl) only putting 1 pound of sugar in the first 5 gallons, letting the thing ferment out then adding 1 pound of sugar at kegging. I guess it's time to experiment! |
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Just to clarify I'm not trying to make Apfelwein, I've already done that, I'm trying to make cider. Here are the stats on Nottingham: A relatively neutral ale yeast, capable of medium-high attenuation. Has high flocculation rate, and can reach ABV of 11%-13% in normal conditions, 18% when adding Fermaid-K as fermentation progresses. Fast fermentations, frequently done in under 48 hours. So, given that the yeast, if allowed to go it's course, in this case, it will eat all of the sugar avab (let's say I add 2 pounds of sugar to 5 gallons of juice) in the fermenter, leaving no sweetness....like apfelwien; hence the cold crash question. I'm not planning on using the cold crash to clarify the cider but to knock the yeast out of action before they consume all the sugars. Make sense? If I try to back sweeten with a can of applejuice at kegging I'm slightly affraid that they'll come to life again, and hence the splenda idea. This makes me wonder how companies like Ace and Woodchuck make their ciders. I said tolerance, and I'm sorry. 6-8% is your target range for a medium-sweet finish. Tolerance does not drive attenuation. They are related, but attenuation always goes down as alcohol yield increases. Nottingham finishes medium-sweet in the 6-8% range, trust me. It also puts off some fruit esters (again, English yeast) that I think compliment cider very well. Using just juice and honey, it gets pretty close to Strongbow. I'd have to experiment with other yeasts to get it exact, but it's in the neighborhood. In the 4-5% range, Nottingham remains medium-dry, and above 8% it finishes cloyingly sweet. In a beer, I wouldn't go over 6%. In cider, it works well above there. I wouldn't push it above 8% for anything. |
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as a pro-brewer not home-brewer, I'll be a big part of it. answer questions n what not. been doing it for 6 years. if you like good beer chances are you've had something I've made.edit: I've been meaning to put this out for a while, but for reals, if anyone has any q's about brewing better beer, just shoot me an pm What have you made? well right now we have something like 30 ish beers we produce, all are craft beers. we are always messing around, have a barleywine in the tasting room that was just a fun brew. i took a small amount of stout and fermented it with a different strain (Belgian) and added lactose. just kegged it off Tuesday. right now in the cellar we have 4 yeast strains doing different things. we have another 3 strains our lab can whip up for us. |
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Add me in! Just made my first batch of Edworts Apfelwein. I recently cracked a bottle that was almost a year old....it was amazing. I used S-04 instead of Montrachet, though (I like some sweetness). My roommate got a bunch of carboys for free from his family, so we are going to make a shit ton of apfelwein at one time, trying different yeasts. I think I may have asked this before, but, if i started a batch next week could it be ready to go for Christmas presents? No, not if it's EdWort's Apfelwein. I haven't made any other ciders. However, it would be amazing to make now and hand out next Christmas. You must have lots of patience if you're going for optimum quality. |
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I said tolerance, and I'm sorry. 6-8% is your target range for a medium-sweet finish. Tolerance does not drive attenuation. They are related, but attenuation always goes down as alcohol yield increases. Nottingham finishes medium-sweet in the 6-8% range, trust me. It also puts off some fruit esters (again, English yeast) that I think compliment cider very well. Using just juice and honey, it gets pretty close to Strongbow. I'd have to experiment with other yeasts to get it exact, but it's in the neighborhood. In the 4-5% range, Nottingham remains medium-dry, and above 8% it finishes cloyingly sweet. In a beer, I wouldn't go over 6%. In cider, it works well above there. I wouldn't push it above 8% for anything. Ok, I'm new to cider, so I'll try the Nottingham, shoot for 8% or so and see what happens The wife would like sweeter, Woodchuck compared to Strongbow, so maybe I'll make 6 gallons, split them into 2 x 3gallon secondaries and mess around!
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