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Posted: 12/11/2019 4:02:20 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL, that thing would be more lethal to German pilots than P80s 
Totes stylish, though; even had a designer flight mask by Hugo Boss Just like most of these threads that extend the war, and have no agreed upon where everyone was in this hypothetical 1946. I still think the entire war began tremendous folly, and exposing Hitlers madness when he halted steam rolling the BEF at Dunkirk. Then if we could again pontificate about operation sea lion, but Ii enjoy those threads. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 4:02:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I grant you it would be a tough sell after the communists in our government spent the previous 4 years talking up how swell Uncle Joe was. A few movie news reals showing the people being forcedinto trucks to go back to Russia and be killed might do it, but we had fake news back then, too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Try and explain to the American people, indeed the entire world, how we decided to fight the Soviets in 1945. Stalin had been doing inhumane shit for about as long as he was Stalin. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 4:04:57 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
RIF, that was exactly my point. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 4:05:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Too bad it didn't go on long enough to defeat the Soviets before they had nukes.  |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 4:08:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
100+ delivered, 200 more complete and awaiting pick up and final inspections. A few of them saw combat and shot down a handful of Allied planes. The Germans built enormous underground factories for them and were ready to crank them out by the thousands, but they ran out of time. Like somebody said though, lack of pilots made it pointless. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 4:11:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
See the bold? That's the flaw in your plan. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well, port cities. U-boat delivers a bomb with a midget sub built around it, or sacrifice the u-boat if necessary. There was a thread the other day about an Italian plan to run a midget sub up into New York harbor so that frogmen could attach limpet mines to shipping. They had the midget subs built and were training, sounds like it had a chance, but it got derailed when the carrier sub was sunk. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 4:16:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Much moar
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Posted: 12/11/2019 4:16:32 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Germany did not have a production bomber capable of reaching CONUS in operational use - EVER. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 4:28:08 PM EDT
[#9]
A B-36 over Europe is likely going to be facing Me-1101s armed with X-4s. That would have been bad for B-36s and the cities they would have fallen upon. This leads to "what would the US have done to protect them?" and I think the answer is would have legitimately tried the FICON concept to at least chase Nazi missile carriers out of range. Also,it would be near certain that the Wasserfall would have come into use and B-36s would not be flying higher than they could.
The B-36 would have significantly changed the war in the Pacific. If the US was backed on a different timeline due to perhaps losses at Midway and Guadalcanal and there not only being no Pacific Fleet left but keeping in the agreement to win in Europe first,who knows what the strategy may have been. Japan may have ended up taking India and then found themselves fighting Russians coming through Iran,all kinds of crazy shit could have happened with another 2 years of war. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 4:38:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We start WW3 over truck loads of refugees. Got it. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 4:46:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you think about the JU-390 flight near NYC? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Germany did not have a production bomber capable of reaching CONUS in operational use - EVER. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 4:59:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The amount of ignorance in this country about the Russian Front is staggering.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 5:05:51 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 12/11/2019 5:10:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Germany had nukes in '45 and '46. 
So to keep the thread going correctly, let's assume no nukes were used so the war can continue with all the new cool toys.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpvAdeAv8KI |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 5:11:25 PM EDT
[#15]
 Attached File Attached File Attached FileI have nothing contribute to these what-if threads except some potentially cool pics. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 5:28:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably not. The reason the Montanas were cancelled is that they were too slow (26 knots vs 30+ for all other classes of post 1940-US Battleships) By 1944, the most important surface weapons for daytime fleet defense were the BB's massive #'s of AAA weapons (nighttime, the 16" + Radar were still primary, as nighttime flight operational carrier capability was still in it's infancy.) The US had plenty of 20-ish knot Battleships that were already relegated to nighttime/shore bombardment operations due to the fact they were too slow to operate with carriers. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 5:34:46 PM EDT
[#17]
:focal(500x316:501x317)/https://public-media.si-cdn.com/filer/42/59/4259ed22-1be6-40ef-8a19-3f7cce850da2/15i_on2014_si-94-13979_live-1.jpg)
 
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Posted: 12/11/2019 5:47:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Germany did not have a production bomber capable of reaching CONUS in operational use - EVER. The JU-390 was capable of reaching US targets. It never reached regular production but at least two were built and operational and the design was licensed for production in Japan. Germany did have the technical capability to bomb the East Coast. They also had a two stage rocket in development that theoretically could have hit New York and Washington. Given another year or two they may have become a very real threat. This is under the hypothetical scenario that the war was extended because D-Day failed. In reality they never went into production because by the time working prototypes were making their test flights Germany was already fighting a purely defensive war. They ordered a few dozen but the contracts were canceled in the final days of the war as Germany had neither the money or resources to complete them. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 5:49:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But they did have nice pictures. The Germans were very good at drawing nice pictures. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 5:54:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia isn't fighting SHIT without food, fuel, av gas, ammunition, trucks, railroad car and locomotives, and 40% of their armored vehicles. All that is coming in via Lend-Lease, and I'm pretty sure if we are fighting them, we aren't still shipping all of that to them. Once we we shut off the tap Russia had nothing left to fight with while our war machine was still in full stride. Their people were decimated and their nation was in ruins. We could have prevented unimaginable human suffering under the USSR but instead we bent over and let Stalin have his way with Eastern Europe. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:01:15 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote History |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:03:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Amerika Bomber - The German Plan to Bomb New York
 Amerika Bomber - The German Plan to Bomb New York |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:03:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exactly. Once we we shut off the tap Russia had nothing left to fight with while our war machine was still in full stride. Their people were decimated and their nation was in ruins. We could have prevented unimaginable human suffering under the USSR but instead we bent over and let Stalin have his way with Eastern Europe. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:05:01 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The development of CAS?? Ummm... |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:14:41 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
P-80 could outrun, outclimb, outroll, and outturn the 262. It would have been a slaughter. Although the two aircraft never met in combat, they were flown in a comparison test at Wright Field after the war. According to reports from that test, the Me 262 had a speed advantage in a dive, but the P-80 was superior in all other respects. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:24:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The most obvious one, nukes. Russia or GB might have nuked Germany if they accelerated their development or if the US loaned them a nuke as part of an allied war effort. Shit, look at what they did to Dresden... they might as well have nuked it. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:29:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Without the atomic bomb? The US invading Japan with thousands of casualties on both sides.
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:32:53 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Last time I looked, we had free Pole, Czech, etc. forces fighting alongside of us, but also significant ethnic populations form those areas. Those folks might not be too happy to see their reletives shipped back to be shot. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:36:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Americans tend to believe they defeated Nazi Germany on their own, and forget that 9 out of every 10 casualties in the European theater were on the German-Soviet front |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:38:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The development of CAS?? Ummm... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We would have developed the B36 peacekeeper and pressed it into service. As we started to dominate the air more...we'd have seen the development of CAS. Ummm... |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:46:46 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1 to 2 million people starved to death in the Soviet famine of 1946-1947. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:49:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe they had been using P-47s to bring down hell on German armor for a while by the end of the war. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:53:05 PM EDT
[#33]
All we have to do is look at Korea, Mig15 was a German WWII design taken right off the blueprints...it killed the Shooting star and any other US jet or propeller fighters. Yes the Mig15 was indeed a German Nazi era fighter design stolen by the Red army and its designers were forced to work as slave labor for Stalin. Look at it's true origins.
In fact all the Soviet cold war jets, missiles and rockets and space technology came from German scientist slaves taken captive in WWII (even Sputnik), same way the US Apollo programs were the same from German scientists. We wouldn't have gone to the moon without them. But when those slave German scientists died in the Soviet Union by the 80's the Russians lost any edge they had. Which is why they once seemed awesome and are now a joke. Hell even Kalashnikov was a thief and a liar...he was the coffee boy for Hugo Schmeisser who again was Nazi slave labor for the Russian...but yeah, Hugo, one of the greatest gun designers of the 20th century had nothing to do with the AK47 even though he "worked" with AK...AK the tractor driver and great Soviet hero of the Motherland....lol. We should call it the "HS47" if we want to be truthful. What did AK design after Hugo's death? nothing new. There you go... Take the WWII slave German scientists away during the cold war and Russia becomes Pakistan in arms and technology. This is why when those captured German scientists died the "Soviet edge" died...fact. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:53:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No need for all that yanking banking stuff. Just have the B-45s bomb the Me 262 maintenance hangers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
P-80 could outrun, outclimb, outroll, and outturn the 262. It would have been a slaughter. Although the two aircraft never met in combat, they were flown in a comparison test at Wright Field after the war. According to reports from that test, the Me 262 had a speed advantage in a dive, but the P-80 was superior in all other respects. 
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:54:02 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
speed isn't so important when you are building it for naval bombardment. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:55:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No need for all that yanking banking stuff. Just have the B-45s bomb the Me 262 maintenance hangers. What an odd bomber choice, but I thank you, Did not much about them. In 1947 those cost 1.1 million a piece.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:55:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're correct on that front but I didn't say they had regular production bombers, just that they had the capability. The JU-390 was capable of reaching US targets. It never reached regular production but at least two were built and operational and the design was licensed for production in Japan. Germany did have the technical capability to bomb the East Coast. They also had a two stage rocket in development that theoretically could have hit New York and Washington. Given another year or two they may have become a very real threat. This is under the hypothetical scenario that the war was extended because D-Day failed. In reality they never went into production because by the time working prototypes were making their test flights Germany was already fighting a purely defensive war. They ordered a few dozen but the contracts were canceled in the final days of the war as Germany had neither the money or resources to complete them. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 6:59:26 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The US would not have nuked Europe. The US war effort went to great lengths to dehumanize Japanese people/cultures as subhuman vermin. The pacific war effort propaganda and posters were incredibly racial/xenophobic in nature. The Japanese did things so vile it would make you puke. At least one author writing about their atrocities committed suicide. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 7:00:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While this is true, it completely ignores the amount of equipment the Germans had to keep in defense of the Reich...specifically aircraft. I can't remember at what point in 1943, but the Soviets were operating with almost complete air superiority in the East simply because aircraft were dedicated to the defense of Germany against US and British air power. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 7:01:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryA tank with a wooden barrel? groundbreaking.
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Posted: 12/11/2019 7:02:34 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All we have to do is look at Korea, Mig15 was a German WWII design taken right off the blueprints...it killed the Shooting star and any other US jet or propeller fighters. Yes the Mig15 was indeed a German Nazi era fighter design stolen by the Red army and its designers were forced to work as slave labor for Stalin. Look at it's true origins. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 7:11:25 PM EDT
[#42]
What did AK design after Hugo's death? nothing new. There you go... |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 7:18:28 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Panzerkampfwagen E-100, Panzer VIII Maus, Horten 229, STG44 being more widespread, Leibermuster camo pattern, Fliegerfaust |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 7:19:01 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Two were built, but they were never operational. They could reach Newfoundland, but not New York. Germany did not have the ability to reach the east cost, and if you have evidence otherwise, I would like to see it. They had a range of 5,000 nautical miles in bomber configuration. They absolutely could have bombed New York, that's not debatable. It may have been a one way trip for the plane with the crew bailing out over the Atlantic to get picked up by U-boats but it was possible. If the Germans managed to build atom bombs (by some accounts they may have but those are unverifiable) then I think they absolutely would have made the trip given enough time. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 7:20:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except it had a British engine. Do you suppose the Brits are going to ship the blueprints to the Nene to Hitler? |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 7:22:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Japan earned every bit of it. They did things that horrified dedicated Nazi diplomats sent to them. Things that repelled the architects of the Final Solution. You don't know about it because we wanted the data they generated for our own chem and bio weapon programs, and because we wanted Japan as a bulwark against communism. The Japanese did things so vile it would make you puke. At least one author writing about their atrocities committed suicide. One a side note both my grandfathers served in WWII. My paternal grandfather was in the army at Normandy on D-Day and my maternal grandfather was a marine who served in the Pacific theater. My paternal grandfather never had a bad thing to say about the Germans (although he hated Italians for some reason I never understood but he served there as well so who knows). Mom's dad hated the Japanese with a fiery passion till the day he died. Never heard many stories from either of them relating to their experiences other than mom's dad stating once or twice that "Japs were some soulless sons of bitches". |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 7:23:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont think so, Germany was in shambles at the end... they had no industry with which to construct these wonder weapons. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 7:56:02 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Japan earned every bit of it. They did things that horrified dedicated Nazi diplomats sent to them. Things that repelled the architects of the Final Solution. You don't know about it because we wanted the data they generated for our own chem and bio weapon programs, and because we wanted Japan as a bulwark against communism. The Japanese did things so vile it would make you puke. At least one author writing about their atrocities committed suicide. I’m just saying, for the most part, the US and GB did not have that same inhumane view of Germany ... the kind needed to say fuck you and drop canned sunshine on cities and give their children’s children cancer. European bombing campaigns in Germany were more often than not limited to strategic areas. The European western front saw a hell of a lot more decorum than the pacific or eastern front. I don’t think Truman drops the bomb on Germany. If it is dropped, its-falling out of Russian bomber bays à la lend lease... because US & GB don’t want the backlash on them for dropping a nuke in Europe. USSR doesn’t care what any non-commies think about them. |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 8:01:42 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote History |
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Posted: 12/11/2019 8:10:44 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolutely. And they viewed Americans in the same light we viewed them and their dehumanization of us made their atrocities justified in their eyes. I’m just saying, for the most part, the US and GB did not have that same inhumane view of Germany ... the kind needed to say fuck you and drop canned sunshine on cities and give their children’s children cancer. European bombing campaigns in Germany were more often than not limited to strategic areas. The European western front saw a hell of a lot more decorum than the pacific or eastern front. I don’t think Truman drops the bomb on Germany. If it is dropped, its-falling out of Russian bomber bays à la lend lease... because US & GB don’t want the backlash on them for dropping a nuke in Europe. USSR doesn’t care what any non-commies think about them. EDIT:SPELL |
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