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Posted: 1/16/2023 10:30:11 PM EDT
The new rule book which dropped today makes it far too easy.
New standards for what’s legal include, “What would people at the mall think about that?” And “DON’T EVEN THINK ABOUT USING COMPETITION ORIENTED GEAR IN THE COMPETITION YOU’RE GOING TO”. Having a rule set this subjective is going to be unintentionally hilarious in the extreme.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 10:32:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Eh for it being defensive pistol/ccw based, it make sense: if anything they’re making it much more realistic and true to purpose for the intent of the game
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Posted: 1/16/2023 10:43:02 PM EDT
[#2]
I can't really get mad at that. Their game. Their rules.
I mean I shoot uspsa from concealment or with retention holsters. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 10:45:34 PM EDT
[#3]
I have to admit I hate how every genre of competitive practical shooting starts out "honest" with folks shooting what they would actually use for you know "practical shooting", but then it always devolves into gamer bullshit.
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Posted: 1/16/2023 10:47:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Keeping race guns and gear out of IDPA is funny I guess.
Ha Ha. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 10:51:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have to admit I hate how every genre of competitive practical shooting starts out "honest" with folks shooting what they would actually use for you know "practical shooting", but then it always devolves into gamer bullshit. This. 3 gun started the same way, a fun way to run and gun your SHTF stuff. It’s unrecognizable today in comparison. That said it’s all about your personal mindset with it. I still use matches as a form of training and have fun with it, score be damned. If I’m in the top 25%, I’m happy. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 10:55:20 PM EDT
[#6]
When I shoot comoa it’s IDPA and I use it as a training opportunity. I don’t give two shits if I win or not. Best way to get better is to shoot against amazing shooters
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Posted: 1/16/2023 10:58:07 PM EDT
[#7]
I actually saw the fishing vest wearing guy in the wild once at a movie theater
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:00:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keeping race guns and gear out of IDPA is funny I guess. Ha Ha. The funny thing is that you’re going to have 87 different opinions on what a race holster is. What’s a competition oriented magazine carrier? Tilted back? OWB? What about belts? Because those are arguments which are going to happen starting this Friday. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:05:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Holy shit. A mall reference ??
I was messing around at our steel bay today when our clubs USPSA director stopped in for some lunch hour practice. He’s a good guy, top notch shooter. We talked about USPSA vs IDPA a bit… he favors USPSA but he’s not aggressive about it…. he shoots along with us most matches The thing we agreed on was the loading rules and the slice the pie rules. We agreed they are kinda stringent and dumb. I’m leaning more and more towards USPSA these days….. fucking mall standards 
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:05:50 PM EDT
[#10]
I get it, people are bending the last set of rules to where some who play within the spirit and intent of the rules are getting smoked by the people that ride that gray area, so they are trying to clarify to the cheaters that it will not work no mo'.
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:07:18 PM EDT
[#11]
From what I remember from when I shot IDPA in the 90's it was started because IPSC got to be too much of a race gun match. IDPA was designed as concealed carry match, if you showed up to an outdoor match with a coat on you had to shoot with that coat on. I liked that idea and someday I would love to start shooting it again.
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:10:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. 3 gun started the same way, a fun way to run and gun your SHTF stuff. It's unrecognizable today in comparison. That said it's all about your personal mindset with it. I still use matches as a form of training and have fun with it, score be damned. If I'm in the top 25%, I'm happy. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:11:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get it, people are bending the last set of rules to where some who play within the spirit and intent of the rules are getting smoked by the people that ride that gray area, so they are trying to clarify to the cheaters that it will not work no mo'. The problem with that train of thought is that there isn’t really a grey area… There’s “legal” and “not legal”. It’s not illegal to take something right to the edge of the line. Say there’s a 45oz weight limit? I’ll build a 44.9oz gun (which I did). That’s not cheating but people will bitch and moan about “spirit and intent”. So now the way to fix the rules issues is to make things absurdly subjective? That sounds rad. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:12:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Seems perfectly reasonable. I've shot a few different types of matches, and all of them inevitably become an "arms race" where the people with the most money to buy the latest advancements always have an advantage over shooters who can't buy the latest new thing every time something comes out.
If you can shoot the same gun/holster/belt/mags for several years, and spend the money on ammo instead, that's a much better proposition for most shooters, and it favors skill over spending. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:14:40 PM EDT
[#15]
I no longer shoot idpa because it turned into gaming. Glad to see I might be able to run my EDC gear again.
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:15:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems perfectly reasonable. I've shot a few different types of matches, and all of them inevitably become an "arms race" where the people with the most money to buy the latest advancements always have an advantage over shooters who can't buy the latest new thing every time something comes out. If you can shoot the same gun/holster/belt/mags for several years, and spend the money on ammo instead, that's a much better proposition for most shooters, and it favors skill over spending. It sounds reasonable until you take your gear which is legal at your locals to a Major and someone at EC has a different opinion. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:16:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I no longer shoot idpa because it turned into gaming. Glad to see I might be able to run my EDC gear again. You could still do that. I do that when I shoot IDPA. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:16:22 PM EDT
[#18]
I don't know, it's gun golf; we know what they mean.
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:20:41 PM EDT
[#19]
I'd bet groups running IDPA matches will be happy if everyone who thinks their rules are stupid stays home.
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:21:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could still do that. I do that when I shoot IDPA. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:26:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I no longer shoot idpa because it turned into gaming. Glad to see I might be able to run my EDC gear again. Me and a couple buds shot our daily carry guns at a USPSA style league match one time. If your goal is to test yourself or get better with your EDC, who cares if a dude with an open gun gets first place in a match? |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:30:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Practical class and gamer class.
Let them both shoot the same courses of fire. Any money stays within a class. Gamer class is an also ran class lumped in with lady shooters, youth and seniors.  I remember my first match, guy turned quickly to look at his buddy that called his name and his tricked out 1911 fell out into the sand. Nice “holster” pal! |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:30:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Me and a couple buds shot our daily carry guns at a USPSA style league match one time. If your goal is to test yourself or get better with your EDC, who cares if a dude with an open gun gets first place in a match? Exactly this. Matches are great at training to shoot under stress/increased heart rate. You have to care a little for that to happen, but who gives a shit if a guy with a race gun beats you. Although my absolute favorite thing to do is beat someone with a race gun with my bone stock G19.3 and iron sights. Not saying it’s happened a bunch, but it’s happened.
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:35:52 PM EDT
[#24]
LOL
So what exactly is now no longer legal in IDPA? They already had rules covering what types of guns and holsters were allowed. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:37:44 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:39:46 PM EDT
[#26]
There's nothing wrong with shooting IDPA if USPSA and 2gun/3gun aren't available in your area. It's all a game.
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:42:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Last time I shot IDPA, they still had 10rd rules.
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:42:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Going back a decade and half ago, I used to work at a gunshop/indoor range that used to host IDPA shoots twice a month. Had to open early for them, but checking everyone in for them was always a headache. Literally a bunch of boomers coming in in "shoot me first vests" complaining about the fee (that hasnt changed since the shop opened) and having to complete the liability waiver again (literally just a signature/date).
A IDPA match was the first time I ever used a tourniquet. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:45:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly this. Matches are great at training to shoot under stress/increased heart rate. You have to care a little for that to happen, but who gives a shit if a guy with a race gun beats you. Although my absolute favorite thing to do is beat someone with a race gun with my bone stock G19.3 and iron sights. Not saying it’s happened a bunch, but it’s happened. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Me and a couple buds shot our daily carry guns at a USPSA style league match one time. If your goal is to test yourself or get better with your EDC, who cares if a dude with an open gun gets first place in a match? Exactly this. Matches are great at training to shoot under stress/increased heart rate. You have to care a little for that to happen, but who gives a shit if a guy with a race gun beats you. Although my absolute favorite thing to do is beat someone with a race gun with my bone stock G19.3 and iron sights. Not saying it’s happened a bunch, but it’s happened. Now, I’ll be honest. I’ve never done that in a match that counted. But that’s because I do care about scores.
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:47:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Me and a couple buds shot our daily carry guns at a USPSA style league match one time. If your goal is to test yourself or get better with your EDC, who cares if a dude with an open gun gets first place in a match? If you're shooting your EDC, why not sign up for production division instead of open division ? |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:48:34 PM EDT
[#31]
The simple solution is to take a picture of yourself at the mall wearing the same gun and gear. Hell I ran into a guy who works at my favorite Gyro place rucking in the grocery store. Full size ruck and carrying an HK USP.
ETA: The pistol was in an Uncle Mike's soft IWB tucked in his front right pocket. Obviously he did not consider what other people might think when he left the house. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:56:59 PM EDT
[#32]
I shot my last season in IDPA with a Agency Arms comped g43 and ETS extendos. The first 10 years I shot a stock 1911.
Figured I’d try it with my carry gun for once. I sucked either way so it didn’t matter lol. I’m glad to see they are at least trying to keep it from being a gear whore like 3 gun turned into. |
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Posted: 1/16/2023 11:58:19 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you're shooting your EDC, why not sign up for production division instead of open division ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Me and a couple buds shot our daily carry guns at a USPSA style league match one time. If your goal is to test yourself or get better with your EDC, who cares if a dude with an open gun gets first place in a match? If you're shooting your EDC, why not sign up for production division instead of open division ? Honestly I don’t remember what division we were put in. The point lm (trying) to make is that succeeding in your goals doesn’t always mean winning the match. If you just want to test your skills with your edc, what other people are shooting is irrelevant. There are times I’ve shot matches that I knew was beyond my skill set and my goal was just not embarrassing myself. Even though I didn’t win, at least I was successful in the goal I set. If you want to win, that’s cool too, get in the race and win. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 12:38:45 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keeping race guns and gear out of IDPA is funny I guess. Ha Ha. That is the best thing about IDPA. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 12:58:03 AM EDT
[#35]
They should have done away with capacity limits.
You want to shoot a 1911, go ahead. Nobody else should have to artificially cap their mags to make it fair. It won’t be on the street so why set a false standard? |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 1:09:41 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. 3 gun started the same way, a fun way to run and gun your SHTF stuff. It’s unrecognizable today in comparison. That said it’s all about your personal mindset with it. I still use matches as a form of training and have fun with it, score be damned. If I’m in the top 25%, I’m happy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have to admit I hate how every genre of competitive practical shooting starts out "honest" with folks shooting what they would actually use for you know "practical shooting", but then it always devolves into gamer bullshit. This. 3 gun started the same way, a fun way to run and gun your SHTF stuff. It’s unrecognizable today in comparison. That said it’s all about your personal mindset with it. I still use matches as a form of training and have fun with it, score be damned. If I’m in the top 25%, I’m happy. The beauty of it is that you can show up with pretty much whatever you want. You might not be competitive against the guys with giant magazines on their comped shotguns and whatnot, but do you really care? I just go to have fun. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 1:13:03 AM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 1/17/2023 1:13:12 AM EDT
[#38]
Lol, I guess IDPA is tired of dudes that get their ass kicked in USPSA moving to IDPA to run race guns and try to win.
It’s like trannys taking over women’s sports and proclaiming victory in the Olympics. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 1:28:47 AM EDT
[#39]
Good thing it doesn't say carry like most do at Walmart. Then everyone would have to shoot IDPA open carrying a Taurus in an Uncle Mike's holster.
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Posted: 1/17/2023 2:20:49 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol, I guess IDPA is tired of dudes that get their ass kicked in USPSA moving to IDPA to run race guns and try to win. It’s like trannys taking over women’s sports and proclaiming victory in the Olympics. Man, there's a lotta great quotes/replies up in this thread, but this one's my favorite lol.. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 2:21:16 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem with that train of thought is that there isn't really a grey area There's "legal" and "not legal". It's not illegal to take something right to the edge of the line. Say there's a 45oz weight limit? I'll build a 44.9oz gun (which I did). That's not cheating but people will bitch and moan about "spirit and intent". So now the way to fix the rules issues is to make things absurdly subjective? That sounds rad. 
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Posted: 1/17/2023 2:28:44 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. 3 gun started the same way, a fun way to run and gun your SHTF stuff. It’s unrecognizable today in comparison. That said it’s all about your personal mindset with it. I still use matches as a form of training and have fun with it, score be damned. If I’m in the top 25%, I’m happy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have to admit I hate how every genre of competitive practical shooting starts out "honest" with folks shooting what they would actually use for you know "practical shooting", but then it always devolves into gamer bullshit. This. 3 gun started the same way, a fun way to run and gun your SHTF stuff. It’s unrecognizable today in comparison. That said it’s all about your personal mindset with it. I still use matches as a form of training and have fun with it, score be damned. If I’m in the top 25%, I’m happy. Exactly, IDPA has managed to still be a sport where you can show up with your CCW piece and find out how well you shoot. The cover rules are antiquated, retaining the magazines is stupid, but in a lot of ways it has more utility than USPSA, which might as well be golf for as much as stages have to do with any sort of defensive concept. I used to love 3 Gun, but once people started gluing shotgun shells together... The sport suddenly became more about running an antiquated platform than it did improving your relevant pistol and rifle skills. It happens to all "action" shooting sports eventually. Big shout out to ACTS, if that is still going on out in Michigan. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 2:34:06 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They should have done away with capacity limits. You want to shoot a 1911, go ahead. Nobody else should have to artificially cap their mags to make it fair. It won’t be on the street so why set a false standard? Because using that argument all of the winning times would be people running .22s with 50 round mags, even though they would never see use "on the street". Much of the point of competition is to figure out where you stack up against people who are using similar equipment. I'm glad there are revolver classes, because some folks like to shoot those. I'm glad there are open classes, so guys can stretch their legs and figure out what is possible without restrictions on the equipment. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 2:40:39 AM EDT
[#44]
I conceal my .50 AE Desert Eagle all day continuously. It's practical to me. Can I participate in IDPA?
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Posted: 1/17/2023 2:58:13 AM EDT
[#45]
Well, this is fun- if IDPA wants to become even less relevant, this would be how to do it.
Objective rules for divisions and legality is important. The "what is 'practical' argument" is a lot of horseshit anyway. Make you divisions and rules, and be damned no matter what, but make the rules fuckin' objective, please. I have Roland Specials that I carry, those are my "primary" handguns. I also sometime carry my old Single Stack 1911, and I've got a P365. Just make up some divisions, and let's get to the shooting. There's always someone who will argue that a 69 ounce, 2lb trigger, WML & RDS pistol is their "EDC", and then there are the people who carry really little pistols, that would be unpleasant at best in a match environment. I feel like IDPA never got over how much it hated hated hated USPSA, and so now it's stuck in a place where it's hard to acknowledge Open gun shit turning into EDC shit. Make rules, sure, absolutely, but pleeeease, make rules that are objective. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 7:25:15 AM EDT
[#46]
Well if this doesn't end up in the media I would be very surprised.
Eventually somebody's going to say that they're training Mall shooters |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 8:15:29 AM EDT
[#47]
So run what you want too and tell the RO not to score you.
Pretty simple. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 8:19:11 AM EDT
[#48]
Probably at least 15 years ago a couple of guys I used to shoot USPSA with had a side business as couriers. Often times couriering jewelry to stores at malls and would on occasion open carry their open class USPSA gear and guns while doing so.
Including Crossroads Mall in St. Cloud where this incident happened a few years ago. Coincidentally, the shooter that stopped this attack also shot with us.  Authorities Release Video Of St. Cloud Mall Stabbings |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 8:26:04 AM EDT
[#49]
Them competition guns always had me cracking up.
Shotguns with 20rd single stack box mags dangling down to the shooters' ankles. Gear purpose built for winning that one specific competition but would be way too cumbersome or impractical to deal with in any other situation. Seems to me like they are trying to stop that sort of goofy shit. Its just hard to put that into words. Those tarded looking competition-only settups and accessories are like porn. Hard to define in words but everybody knows them when they see them. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 8:28:13 AM EDT
[#50]
Having discretion as an RO for an outlaw match that only occurs at one place is fine, applying that logic to a national sport is completely retarded.
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