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Posted: 1/17/2023 7:07:07 PM EDT
[#1]
I shoot ALL of these sports with my carry gun. I have no illusion of being a "top notch" competitor. I do it for ME. I do it as a competency practice for my carry gun-skills.
Every great once in awhile I will do it with a full sized 1911 rather than a Commander size.....and I feel like I'm cheating. IDPA rules are kinda dumb...but that is something I am just realizing. Regardless of the sport, I always load from cover, shoot from cover, etc. My biggest beef with IDPA (aside from referencing a fucking mall in the rule book) is the reloading rules. I do understand, however guys that get into it ala full on race gun....guns are cool, I understand. The race gun stuff just doesn't appeal to me. If I can't carry it I'm not shooting with it.....probably.... |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 7:09:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If your ammunition isn’t functioning your gun there’s no way you’re meeting PF, so that’s not legal ammunition. If the venue or stage doesn’t require me to use cover, why should I use cover? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: LOL, "legal ammo"... my experience is dudes with subsonic loads that need special springs to allow the pistol to cycle... then there was the one who put just enough powder in their revolver loads to punch holes in cardboard... Or shaving seconds off their time by standing where they have full simultaneous visibility to 6 threat targets and can shoot them all without moving their feet one inch. Why use cover or concealment? Worked fabulously on a 1-way range!!! Most of these folks would have done a lot better for themselves by getting out and physically exercising once in a while instead. It was fine when I was younger and got bored punching holes in paper on a static firing line. I might even re-join one day to officially earn a Master Classification or two, but that's about it. If your ammunition isn’t functioning your gun there’s no way you’re meeting PF, so that’s not legal ammunition. If the venue or stage doesn’t require me to use cover, why should I use cover? Indeed. It is NOT legal ammo... and indeed, in the competition the incentive is not to use cover if you can help it. I'm a grown man and decided that sort of "gaming" wasn't for me. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 7:16:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The concealment requirement is fine and objectively gauged. “Can you see the gun with arms out at your sides or not?” There’s not much to it. As a way to differentiate it from USPSA as something that’s practical I’d expect that. Unpopular opinion but I’m actually cool with the ten round mag limits, too. The max stage round count is a paltry 18 rounds so it’s a good way to force a mag change. As that’s a basic skill of handgun shooting it’s a really solid way to incorporate it as a part of the match. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: OP, you may not remember, but 15 or so years ago bogus "concealment vests" were the rage in IDPA. The vests covered the firearm from the front, but the mesh in back allowed you to see the firearm completely. IDPA cracked down on those, somewhat... but generally unrealistic concealment vests were still going strong last time I shot a competition. Vests will all kinds of gun patches on them which covered the firearm but didn't leave much to the imagination. I used my actual carry gear including a shirt for concealment... but I was one of a very few. Enforcement will probably be arbitrary, but my last experience with IDPA was that different clubs were already very much arbitrary about what rules they actually enforced. Rules like Power Factor are usually ignored in local matches. I found Division rules not well enforced either. The concealment requirement is fine and objectively gauged. “Can you see the gun with arms out at your sides or not?” There’s not much to it. As a way to differentiate it from USPSA as something that’s practical I’d expect that. Unpopular opinion but I’m actually cool with the ten round mag limits, too. The max stage round count is a paltry 18 rounds so it’s a good way to force a mag change. As that’s a basic skill of handgun shooting it’s a really solid way to incorporate it as a part of the match. Yes. I totally understand the 10rd limit as well. It is good to practice reloads under stress. I roll my eyes at it, but there is good logic behind it. I ran some other competitions that allowed me to use full capacity or extended mags and liked that experience as well. Variety in mag loading is good. As far as "concealment" goes, I thought there was too much of this:  That is not subtle, and might even yield the element of surprise in an actual gunfight. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 7:58:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The funniest thing of all this is the Cooper Tunnel. Something Jeff Cooper specifically stated isn't realistic... and what did they do. They incorporated it into IPSC and named it after him.  https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QxGzmxLBbLQ/maxresdefault.jpg Cooper tunnel. I forgot all about those. It was a one second penalty for every lath you moved. They were just sitting there on top. Am I remembering that right? Old school IPSC. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 8:08:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem with that train of thought is that there isn’t really a grey area… There’s “legal” and “not legal”. It’s not illegal to take something right to the edge of the line. Say there’s a 45oz weight limit? I’ll build a 44.9oz gun (which I did). That’s not cheating but people will bitch and moan about “spirit and intent”. So now the way to fix the rules issues is to make things absurdly subjective? That sounds rad. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I get it, people are bending the last set of rules to where some who play within the spirit and intent of the rules are getting smoked by the people that ride that gray area, so they are trying to clarify to the cheaters that it will not work no mo'. The problem with that train of thought is that there isn’t really a grey area… There’s “legal” and “not legal”. It’s not illegal to take something right to the edge of the line. Say there’s a 45oz weight limit? I’ll build a 44.9oz gun (which I did). That’s not cheating but people will bitch and moan about “spirit and intent”. So now the way to fix the rules issues is to make things absurdly subjective? That sounds rad. I went to a couple idpa matches and the subjectivity wasn’t my biggest gripe but it didn’t make the matches fairer. The thing for me on run and gun is I get in a state of flow. Time stops. Thinking stops. I’m laser focused on one point while cognizant of the periphery. It feels good it’s exciting and calming. Idpa doesn’t do it |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 8:10:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. I totally understand the 10rd limit as well. It is good to practice reloads under stress. I roll my eyes at it, but there is good logic behind it. I ran some other competitions that allowed me to use full capacity or extended mags and liked that experience as well. Variety in mag loading is good. As far as "concealment" goes, I thought there was too much of this: https://i0.wp.com/handgunplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Armadillo-4.jpg That is not subtle, and might even yield the element of surprise in an actual gunfight. Now that AIWB has been adopted by IDPA (complete with the wailing and gnashing of teeth by the Fudds), when I shoot an IDPA match I just use a t-shirt. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 8:11:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cooper tunnel. I forgot all about those. It was a one second penalty for every lath you moved. They were just sitting there on top. Am I remembering that right? Old school IPSC. Yup. I can’t remember the last time I saw one. At Area 2, I think. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 9:09:44 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree that the 10 round limit is not realistic. Part of CCW is knowing the local laws for where you are carrying, so adjusting your equipment to be in compliance is a totally realistic scenario. If you are shooting a match in a location where >10 is allowed, load up and go for it. If you are shooting a match in a location where >10 is NOT allowed, you have to adjust your equipment, just like in real life. |
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Posted: 1/17/2023 9:26:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now that AIWB has been adopted by IDPA (complete with the wailing and gnashing of teeth by the Fudds), when I shoot an IDPA match I just use a t-shirt. Welcome to IDK how many years ago. I carry OWB at 3:30 and have been using nothing but a t-shirt for quite a while. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 1:05:13 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Welcome to IDK how many years ago. I carry OWB at 3:30 and have been using nothing but a t-shirt for quite a while. Ok |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 7:52:02 AM EDT
[#11]
Any round limit is dumb. Compete with the pistol of your choice. If you are worried about competing, use a pistol that gets you through the stage with the least amount of reloads. Heck, if you are smart, that same high capacity pistol is probably your carry gun. I do not understand putting bad habits into your head on the gun range. Fucking around with 10 round capacity when you normally carry 15 is stupid.
If not (like me) use your carry pistol and practice the way you might have to fight. I choose a 1911. I know there are pistols with more capacity. Lighter weight. Easier to put an RDS on. But I shoot a 1911 well, and have been carrying one since 1981. So that is what I will use. As an aside, I have never had a race gun guy give me any shit about my pistol of choice. Actually quite the opposite. Folks see an old fucker run a stage relatively quickly with competent gun handling skills and they are usually high fiving me. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 8:36:18 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any round limit is dumb. Compete with the pistol of your choice. If you are worried about competing, use a pistol that gets you through the stage with the least amount of reloads. Heck, if you are smart, that same high capacity pistol is probably your carry gun. I do not understand putting bad habits into your head on the gun range. Fucking around with 10 round capacity when you normally carry 15 is stupid. If not (like me) use your carry pistol and practice the way you might have to fight. I choose a 1911. I know there are pistols with more capacity. Lighter weight. Easier to put an RDS on. But I shoot a 1911 well, and have been carrying one since 1981. So that is what I will use. As an aside, I have never had a race gun guy give me any shit about my pistol of choice. Actually quite the opposite. Folks see an old fucker run a stage relatively quickly with competent gun handling skills and they are usually high fiving me. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 11:07:01 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now that AIWB has been adopted by IDPA (complete with the wailing and gnashing of teeth by the Fudds), when I shoot an IDPA match I just use a t-shirt. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes. I totally understand the 10rd limit as well. It is good to practice reloads under stress. I roll my eyes at it, but there is good logic behind it. I ran some other competitions that allowed me to use full capacity or extended mags and liked that experience as well. Variety in mag loading is good. As far as "concealment" goes, I thought there was too much of this: https://i0.wp.com/handgunplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Armadillo-4.jpg That is not subtle, and might even yield the element of surprise in an actual gunfight. Now that AIWB has been adopted by IDPA (complete with the wailing and gnashing of teeth by the Fudds), when I shoot an IDPA match I just use a t-shirt. Interesting development. I'll say holstering accidents are some of the most common firearm accidents. They have happened at IDPA in the past. There is a lot more room for error with strong side carry. Sounds like that makes the SO's job a lot more interesting. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 3:21:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting development. I'll say holstering accidents are some of the most common firearm accidents. They have happened at IDPA in the past. There is a lot more room for error with strong side carry. Sounds like that makes the SO's job a lot more interesting. I thought after each stage it was "show clear, holster". Although weird shit does happen. Had a shooter, in front of RO watching, drop mag, rack slide, pull trigger, and it went bang. He got DQd, but the rest of us spent half the night trying to figure what happened. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 3:24:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought after each stage it was "show clear, holster". Although weird shit does happen. Had a shooter, in front of RO watching, drop mag, rack slide, pull trigger, and it went bang. He got DQd, but the rest of us spent half the night trying to figure what happened. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 4:09:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Round was in the chamber and the extractor didn't grab it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I thought after each stage it was "show clear, holster". Although weird shit does happen. Had a shooter, in front of RO watching, drop mag, rack slide, pull trigger, and it went bang. He got DQd, but the rest of us spent half the night trying to figure what happened. The shooter and RO are supposed to ‘show clear’ which entails looking at an empty chamber. I’ve also seen the extractor claw slip off a round and lead to a bang when it should’ve been a click. Shooter and RO both failed to do what they’re supposed to do. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 7:27:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The shooter and RO are supposed to ‘show clear’ which entails looking at an empty chamber. I’ve also seen the extractor claw slip off a round and lead to a bang when it should’ve been a click. Shooter and RO both failed to do what they’re supposed to do. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought after each stage it was "show clear, holster". Although weird shit does happen. Had a shooter, in front of RO watching, drop mag, rack slide, pull trigger, and it went bang. He got DQd, but the rest of us spent half the night trying to figure what happened. The shooter and RO are supposed to ‘show clear’ which entails looking at an empty chamber. I’ve also seen the extractor claw slip off a round and lead to a bang when it should’ve been a click. Shooter and RO both failed to do what they’re supposed to do. Lots of shooters try to do that too fast imo. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 8:07:28 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of shooters try to do that too fast imo. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought after each stage it was "show clear, holster". Although weird shit does happen. Had a shooter, in front of RO watching, drop mag, rack slide, pull trigger, and it went bang. He got DQd, but the rest of us spent half the night trying to figure what happened. The shooter and RO are supposed to ‘show clear’ which entails looking at an empty chamber. I’ve also seen the extractor claw slip off a round and lead to a bang when it should’ve been a click. Shooter and RO both failed to do what they’re supposed to do. Lots of shooters try to do that too fast imo. You’re not wrong |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 8:24:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of shooters try to do that too fast imo. yep. This is the portion of the show, where it's best to go nice n slow, so the RO can see everything. not a fan of antics, like racking it back quickly and trying to grab the flying live round. "show clear" means show the RO a clear gun and chamber |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 8:37:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty much. The last IDPA Major I shot I had to have that discussion with the RO and MD about this. Yeah, what I did was legal but “that’s not what we wanted people to do.” Tough shit, I still won. ??????? Lol.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 8:47:18 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 1/18/2023 8:51:40 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting development. I'll say holstering accidents are some of the most common firearm accidents. They have happened at IDPA in the past. There is a lot more room for error with strong side carry. Sounds like that makes the SO's job a lot more interesting. There’s no reason for it to be dangerous in any way if you just watch your gun into the holster. In fact, it should be safer as you just look down to see that it’s clear. Not a problem for an RO/SO. It’s been legal in USPSA in Open and Limited forever. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 8:53:28 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 1/18/2023 8:57:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuote History  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 10:02:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @45-Seventy, I'm ready for IDPA! https://i.imgur.com/wMOSPdH.jpeg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153342_Gallery_jpg-2628407.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153440_Gallery_jpg-2628408.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153331_Gallery_jpg-2628410.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/20221210_151607_jpg-2630718.JPG I have staple guns with better triggers. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 10:18:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yep. This is the portion of the show, where it's best to go nice n slow, so the RO can see everything. not a fan of antics, like racking it back quickly and trying to grab the flying live round. "show clear" means show the RO a clear gun and chamber Maybe its an antic for some, or has garnered that reputation but catching the round when its time to show clear is of zero concern so long as all the other safety procedures are followed. Back when 9mm was 17c a round I used to let rounds go on the show clear. I haven't done that in several years. Rack slide, catch round, rack slide again and hold it open for RO to see it, click and back in the holster. I do agree that none of that needs to be done super fast. A lot of folks keep going like they're still on the clock when its time to reholster. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 10:37:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Eh for it being defensive pistol/ccw based, it make sense: if anything they’re making it much more realistic and true to purpose for the intent of the game Kind of where I am, too. “Defensive Pistol” doesn’t mean game guns you’d never carry. |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 10:48:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @45-Seventy, I'm ready for IDPA! https://i.imgur.com/wMOSPdH.jpeg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153342_Gallery_jpg-2628407.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153440_Gallery_jpg-2628408.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153331_Gallery_jpg-2628410.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/20221210_151607_jpg-2630718.JPG Shit yeah… you’re ready! |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 10:50:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Kind of where I am, too. “Defensive Pistol” doesn’t mean game guns you’d never carry. Who decides what gun I’d carry or not? |
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Posted: 1/18/2023 10:51:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have staple guns with better triggers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @45-Seventy, I'm ready for IDPA! https://i.imgur.com/wMOSPdH.jpeg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153342_Gallery_jpg-2628407.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153440_Gallery_jpg-2628408.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153331_Gallery_jpg-2628410.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/20221210_151607_jpg-2630718.JPG I have staple guns with better triggers. |
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Posted: 1/19/2023 12:23:03 AM EDT
[#31]
This whole thread is awesome.
IDPA=I Don’t Practice Anymore Arbitrary rules are dumb USPSA is on track to have 78 divisions because everyone wants a trophy. Lots of people try gun games but learn they suck. So they make excuses. Blame gear. Make up weak ammo stories. Lots of gun development came from competition. But people behind the curve whine and say it isn’t practical. Lots of gun handling/shooting technique came from competition. But tactards can’t shoot and need an excuse. I think that is what I learned. USPSA A76720 |
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Posted: 1/19/2023 1:31:34 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I shoot ALL of these sports with my carry gun. I have no illusion of being a "top notch" competitor. I do it for ME. I do it as a competency practice for my carry gun-skills. Every great once in awhile I will do it with a full sized 1911 rather than a Commander size.....and I feel like I'm cheating. IDPA rules are kinda dumb...but that is something I am just realizing. Regardless of the sport, I always load from cover, shoot from cover, etc. My biggest beef with IDPA (aside from referencing a fucking mall in the rule book) is the reloading rules. I do understand, however guys that get into it ala full on race gun....guns are cool, I understand. The race gun stuff just doesn't appeal to me. If I can't carry it I'm not shooting with it.....probably.... I'm pretty much the same. The last 3-Gun match I shot, I came in second, by just a few seconds. The guy who beat me had a G34 in a race belt and big magazines. I shot from concealment but I felt pretty good that I was still competitive with my carry gear. |
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Posted: 1/19/2023 8:28:33 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This whole thread is awesome. IDPA=I Don’t Practice Anymore Arbitrary rules are dumb USPSA is on track to have 78 divisions because everyone wants a trophy. Lots of people try gun games but learn they suck. So they make excuses. Blame gear. Make up weak ammo stories. Lot’s of gun development came from competition. But people behind the curve whine and say it isn’t practical. Lot’s of gun handling/shooting technique came from competition. But tactards can’t shoot and need an excuse. I think that is what I learned. USPSA A76720  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/19/2023 9:24:11 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @45-Seventy, I'm ready for IDPA! https://i.imgur.com/wMOSPdH.jpeg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153342_Gallery_jpg-2628407.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153440_Gallery_jpg-2628408.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153331_Gallery_jpg-2628410.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/20221210_151607_jpg-2630718.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: @45-Seventy, I'm ready for IDPA! https://i.imgur.com/wMOSPdH.jpeg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153342_Gallery_jpg-2628407.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153440_Gallery_jpg-2628408.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153331_Gallery_jpg-2628410.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/20221210_151607_jpg-2630718.JPG Those targets look like good training for the clown wars 
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Posted: 1/19/2023 9:30:03 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: New standards for what’s legal include, “What would people at the mall think about that?” And “DON’T EVEN THINK ABOUT USING COMPETITION ORIENTED GEAR IN THE COMPETITION YOU’RE GOING TO”. Having a rule set this subjective is going to be unintentionally hilarious in the extreme. Many posters have commented on approved firearms which are not the subject of this rule change. There were some laughable gun rule changes though, like allowing bushing compensators and porting in ESP but not allowing Roland Specials because the comp is screwed and pinned. The point is that the old holster rules were specific and it was easy to measure and check if a holster would qualify. With the new rules it's “whatever the Match Director decides at equipment check”, so better bring a bag full of holster and hope that some of them will pass. The old rules: 8.5.1.9 For male shooters, the holster must carry firearm so that the entire front strap (to the trigger guard) is at or above the top of the belt. IWB holsters are exempt from this rule. 8.5.1.15 The front edge of the holster may not be more than 1 ¾ inch/44.5mm below the breech face (autos) or 1 inch/25.4mm below the rear of the cylinder (revolvers). 8.5.1.17 Holsters with screws or knobs that extend past the outer face of the holster are allowed if the adjustment screw(s) require a tool to change tension, the screws protrude less than 0.125” (3.2 mm) from the outer face of the holster, and they meet all other holster requirements. Additionally, all tension screws anywhere on a holster must require a tool for tension adjustment. 8.5.1.18 For male shooters only, the holsters must fit the shooter’s body such that a ¾ inch/19.1mm diameter dowel placed between the shooter and the firearm anywhere above the belt contacts both the shooter and the firearm simultaneously.  There were similar rules about mag pouches including dimensions and pictures so that even a monkey could figure out if they were legal or not. But no, measurements used by every other equipment sport to ensure compliance is too easy for IDPA, must have MD discretion with “I know a 'will be killed in the streets of a mall' holster when I see it” as the guiding principle. |
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Posted: 1/19/2023 10:06:22 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those targets look like good training for the clown wars Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @45-Seventy, I'm ready for IDPA! https://i.imgur.com/wMOSPdH.jpeg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153342_Gallery_jpg-2628407.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153440_Gallery_jpg-2628408.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/Screenshot_20221208-153331_Gallery_jpg-2628410.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/122381/20221210_151607_jpg-2630718.JPG Those targets look like good training for the clown wars |
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Posted: 1/19/2023 11:05:11 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 1/19/2023 11:59:36 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:47:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly, IDPA has managed to still be a sport where you can show up with your CCW piece and find out how well you shoot. The cover rules are antiquated, retaining the magazines is stupid, but in a lot of ways it has more utility than USPSA, which might as well be golf for as much as stages have to do with any sort of defensive concept. I used to love 3 Gun, but once people started gluing shotgun shells together... The sport suddenly became more about running an antiquated platform than it did improving your relevant pistol and rifle skills. It happens to all "action" shooting sports eventually. Big shout out to ACTS, if that is still going on out in Michigan. Gluing shotgun shells together? Say what? That is a new one on me??? |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 3:56:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gluing shotgun shells together? Say what? That is a new one on me??? |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 4:19:24 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never heard of that either. My guess is, a weak glue is used to keep the shells together for easier loading into the mag tube, but it is weak enough that the action can break the bond and load a shell into a chamber. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Gluing shotgun shells together? Say what? That is a new one on me??? I'd think they'd have to break while going into the loading gate. Seems like you'd introducing some risk of having shells with bits of glue, or just flaked off glue in general jam something up in the action. I guess it would fall under: If it's stupid but it works, it's not stupid?
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Posted: 1/26/2023 4:20:43 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never heard of that either. My guess is, a weak glue is used to keep the shells together for easier loading into the mag tube, but it is weak enough that the action can break the bond and load a shell into a chamber. Yeah the two shell stab method….maybe:  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 4:28:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: True...most factory ammo isn't that much over power factor in 9mm that is...now 45 is a totally different story. Now how 115 vs 147gr feels is a whole different story...but just a good excuse to start reloading  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There's a minimum power factor for a reason. If it makes power factor appropriate for the division, who cares? True...most factory ammo isn't that much over power factor in 9mm that is...now 45 is a totally different story. Now how 115 vs 147gr feels is a whole different story...but just a good excuse to start reloading |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 4:34:21 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At the 2017 Area 4 Championship a dude on my squad went sub minor shooting WWB. He was fucking pissed. A good friend of mine went sub minor at a Major running Federal Syntec. That was fun. I almost got burned last year when I switched to a different jug of powder and went from 138 PF down to 127 PF. That’s the only thing I could think of because the charge weight and primers were the same but this lot was consistently slow. I’ve never seen that kind of change before. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 7:21:55 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah the two shell stab method….maybe: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369122/3779A33F-4BC9-49E6-83A6-1B476BEA2B35_jpe-2686219.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Never heard of that either. My guess is, a weak glue is used to keep the shells together for easier loading into the mag tube, but it is weak enough that the action can break the bond and load a shell into a chamber. Yeah the two shell stab method….maybe: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369122/3779A33F-4BC9-49E6-83A6-1B476BEA2B35_jpe-2686219.JPG Those aren’t glued together. They’re held by individual clips and you grab two or four and load them in the tube two at a time. Look on YouTube for quad loading. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 8:40:54 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A good friend of mine went sub minor at a Major running Federal Syntec. That was fun. I almost got burned last year when I switched to a different jug of powder and went from 138 PF down to 127 PF. That’s the only thing I could think of because the charge weight and primers were the same but this lot was consistently slow. I’ve never seen that kind of change before. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: At the 2017 Area 4 Championship a dude on my squad went sub minor shooting WWB. He was fucking pissed. A good friend of mine went sub minor at a Major running Federal Syntec. That was fun. I almost got burned last year when I switched to a different jug of powder and went from 138 PF down to 127 PF. That’s the only thing I could think of because the charge weight and primers were the same but this lot was consistently slow. I’ve never seen that kind of change before. That's why all my ammo is well above major PF. I never have to worry. |
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Posted: 1/26/2023 9:43:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those aren’t glued together. They’re held by individual clips and you grab two or four and load them in the tube two at a time. Look on YouTube for quad loading. I never really got into 3 gun ….well…because the shotgun reloading part sucks. And the rules at the time made it so if you shot a box magazine fed shotgun ( a Saiga-12 ) that put you in open for everything. Too rich for my blood. |
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Posted: 1/27/2023 10:07:57 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never really got into 3 gun ….well…because the shotgun reloading part sucks. And the rules at the time made it so if you shot a box magazine fed shotgun ( a Saiga-12 ) that put you in open for everything. Too rich for my blood. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Those aren’t glued together. They’re held by individual clips and you grab two or four and load them in the tube two at a time. Look on YouTube for quad loading. I never really got into 3 gun ….well…because the shotgun reloading part sucks. And the rules at the time made it so if you shot a box magazine fed shotgun ( a Saiga-12 ) that put you in open for everything. Too rich for my blood. I'm in the same boat ref being in Open b/c the only shotguns I own are Saigas and Veprs. So what, run what you've got and do the best you can. I ran a bone stock G17 gen 4 for years in Open before finally getting an MOS slide. Not like I'm going to these matches for the prize table anyway, so get out there with your stuff and see if you can improve. |
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Posted: 1/30/2023 5:03:14 AM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 1/31/2023 3:30:36 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those aren’t glued together. They’re held by individual clips and you grab two or four and load them in the tube two at a time. Look on YouTube for quad loading. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Never heard of that either. My guess is, a weak glue is used to keep the shells together for easier loading into the mag tube, but it is weak enough that the action can break the bond and load a shell into a chamber. Yeah the two shell stab method….maybe: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369122/3779A33F-4BC9-49E6-83A6-1B476BEA2B35_jpe-2686219.JPG Those aren’t glued together. They’re held by individual clips and you grab two or four and load them in the tube two at a time. Look on YouTube for quad loading. Yup, you throw a lot of them on the ground if you don't keep up your practice, ask me how I know lol. |
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