I've heard it all now in the gun debate - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - I've heard it all now in the gun debate (Page 1 of 4)

Posted: 2/23/2016 11:54:37 PM EST

I would say it's safe to say most if not all of us have heard every argument to the gun debate on both sides. We are all very well informed.

A specific person in my family who is a female has come out and said "I would rather be raped over and over again than take somebody's life."

This came out in a 2 hour debate we had while on the way home from being out of town.

The argument that was made was: Guns only have one purpose which is to kill, whether that be in self defense or not which again, we can all agree on.

Of course we say that guns are used in self defense of life and property etc.

Anyways, this person kept asking "wouldn't you rather be beaten up or stabbed rather than shot?" Implying that you have a better chance of survival after being stabbed or beaten.

This female is a christian and basically said that since she is saved she'd rather have the person who in this scenario is trying to kill/rape/beat whatever live to possibly be saved.

I'm a believe in Christ but I can not for one second believe this is what our creator would want us to do. Lay down our life without an attempt to defend ourselves from someone who is trying to kill us so that they might be saved. And because I don't agree with this I'm a bad person and all I care about is myself. lol

I know a lot of you aren't religious and that's cool, that is not what this is about. I just can't believe someone could possibly have this train of thought.

Anyways, just when you thought you've heard it all.

Posted: 2/23/2016 11:57:00 PM EST

[#1]

Lots of

.

I would rather be shot than stabbed.

Posted: 2/23/2016 11:59:02 PM EST

[#2]

Cool.

Well I wouldn't.

So fuck off.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:00:36 AM EST

[#3]

Quoted:

I would say it's safe to say most if not all of us have heard every argument to the gun debate on both sides. We are all very well informed.

A specific person in my family who is a female has come out and said "I would rather be raped over and over again than take somebody's life."

This came out in a 2 hour debate we had while on the way home from being out of town.

The argument that was made was: Guns only have one purpose which is to kill, whether that be in self defense or not which again, we can all agree on.

Of course we say that guns are used in self defense of life and property etc.

Anyways, this person kept asking "wouldn't you rather be beaten up or stabbed rather than shot?" Implying that you have a better chance of survival after being stabbed or beaten.

This female is a christian and basically said that since she is saved she'd rather have the person who in this scenario is trying to kill/rape/beat whatever live to possibly be saved.

I'm a believe in Christ but I can not for one second believe this is what our creator would want us to do. Lay down our life without an attempt to defend ourselves from someone who is trying to kill us so that they might be saved. And because I don't agree with this I'm a bad person and all I care about is myself. lol

I know a lot of you aren't religious and that's cool, that is not what this is about. I just can't believe someone could possibly have this train of thought.

Anyways, just when you thought you've heard it all.

View Quote

I dont think we can all agree on that but they CAN do that

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:02:10 AM EST

[#4]

Good for her. I can understand her preference to be harmed rather than to inflict harm.

But tell her that by attempting to deny others the option of protecting themselves, she's being a selfish cunt.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:03:25 AM EST

[#5]

If I were threatened with murder or rape, I would feel bad every time I pulled the trigger. And I would eventually get over it. I'd have beer and go to bed. Hopefully that would do it.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:04:26 AM EST

[#6]

Pics of future rape prospect.....

Sounds stupid to to me. But to each her own.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:05:14 AM EST

[#7]

eye-for-an-eye, mother fuckers.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:06:11 AM EST

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
Good for her. I can understand her preference to be harmed rather than to inflict harm.

But tell her that by attempting to deny others the option of protecting themselves, she's being a selfish cunt.

View Quote

As can I, it's very noble to an extent and I also told her that without the cunt part. It's wrong to deny others the ability to adequately defend themselves.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:06:40 AM EST

[#9]

Meh, a lot of people are all talk.

Had the same type of lady, then someone broke into her home. She's a gun owner now.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:10:01 AM EST

[#10]

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:12:12 AM EST

[#11]

I suppose you could have taken the position that woman only have one purpose?

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:12:45 AM EST

[#12]

I don't understand that mindset, at all.

Allow yourself to be brutalized or killed in the hope that the rapist/killer will eventually find Christ?

Nope.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:15:15 AM EST

[#13]

I'm ok with her wanting to be raped. She's most likely mentally ill. Again, her thing , not mine.

Me.....id rather shoot and kill someone than be victimized......or have my wife raped.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:15:44 AM EST

[#14]

Its funny to me that antigunners make erroneous statements about firearms with little to no experience with them what so ever.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:16:26 AM EST

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
Cool.

Well I wouldn't.

So fuck off.

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Posted: 2/24/2016 12:17:23 AM EST

[#16]

You give peace a chance.

I'll cover you.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:18:04 AM EST

[#17]

Quoted:....

This female is a christian and basically said that since she is saved she'd rather have the person who in this scenario is trying to kill/rape/beat whatever live to possibly be saved...

View Quote

I thought Jesus told all Christians to find the lost and preach to them and get them to salvation. Looks like she chose to follow his command albeit via possible martyrdom. Her choice.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:18:09 AM EST

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

If I were threatened with murder or rape, I would feel bad every time I pulled the trigger. And I would eventually get over it. I'd have beer and go to bed. Hopefully that would do it.

View Quote

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:18:51 AM EST

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'm ok with her wanting to be raped. She's most likely mentally ill. Again, her thing , not mine.

Me.....id rather shoot and kill someone than be victimized......or have my wife raped.

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Probably a safe assumption

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:21:07 AM EST

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
Meh, a lot of people are all talk.

Had the same type of lady, then someone broke into her home. She's a gun owner now.

View Quote

Yeah, I'll go with this. I doubt she has any idea what being raped is like, and she would change her tune quick if she had to actually learn.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:21:45 AM EST

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
As can I, it's very noble to an extent and I also told her that without the cunt part. It's wrong to deny others the ability to adequately defend themselves.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Good for her. I can understand her preference to be harmed rather than to inflict harm.

But tell her that by attempting to deny others the option of protecting themselves, she's being a selfish cunt.

As can I, it's very noble to an extent and I also told her that without the cunt part. It's wrong to deny others the ability to adequately defend themselves.

The thing is though, the selfish part is entirely applicable. What she's saying is that she'd prefer that other people be raped over and over rather than have the rapist get shot, because people getting shot offends her sensibilities. That's incredibly selfish of her.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:22:23 AM EST

[#22]

BTDT. Not a new thing at all.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:22:30 AM EST

[#23]

Quoted:
A specific person in my family who is a female has come out and said "I would rather be raped over and over again than take somebody's life."

View Quote

I don't think she understands that someone willing to rape her over and over again is more likely to kill her than your typical rapist and much more likely to kill her than felons in general. Also, I don't think she has thought about the fact that most rapists commit several offences during their life time and that rapist killers tend to progres from less brutal to more brutal rapes. So the rapist that only rapes her over and over again, but doesn't kill her, is quite likely to rape other women and likely to eventually kill one. So her choices have a way of affecting others as well.

Quoted:
The argument that was made was: Guns only have one purpose which is to kill, whether that be in self defense or not which again, we can all agree on.

View Quote

Again, I don't think she understands what guns are really for or the fact that most people getting shot survive, with the survival rate being highest for persons shot with handguns.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:23:02 AM EST

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:

I thought Jesus told all Christians to find the lost and preach to them and get them to salvation. Looks like she chose to follow his command albeit via possible martyrdom. Her choice.

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Quoted:

Quoted:....

This female is a christian and basically said that since she is saved she'd rather have the person who in this scenario is trying to kill/rape/beat whatever live to possibly be saved...

I thought Jesus told all Christians to find the lost and preach to them and get them to salvation. Looks like she chose to follow his command albeit via possible martyrdom. Her choice.

That's not martyrdom.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:23:05 AM EST

[#25]

Yes, but would she rather watch their child be raped over and over than take a life. Guess so.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:26:55 AM EST

[#26]

Quoted:
I would say it's safe to say most if not all of us have heard every argument to the gun debate on both sides. We are all very well informed.

A specific person in my family who is a female has come out and said "I would rather be raped over and over again than take somebody's life."

This came out in a 2 hour debate we had while on the way home from being out of town.

The argument that was made was: Guns only have one purpose which is to kill, whether that be in self defense or not which again, we can all agree on.

Of course we say that guns are used in self defense of life and property etc.

Anyways, this person kept asking "wouldn't you rather be beaten up or stabbed rather than shot?" Implying that you have a better chance of survival after being stabbed or beaten.

This female is a christian and basically said that since she is saved she'd rather have the person who in this scenario is trying to kill/rape/beat whatever live to possibly be saved.

I'm a believe in Christ but I can not for one second believe this is what our creator would want us to do. Lay down our life without an attempt to defend ourselves from someone who is trying to kill us so that they might be saved. And because I don't agree with this I'm a bad person and all I care about is myself. lol

I know a lot of you aren't religious and that's cool, that is not what this is about. I just can't believe someone could possibly have this train of thought.

Anyways, just when you thought you've heard it all.

View Quote

Sorry, I just don't believe people when they say this kind of thing. It's similar to internet tough guys. Talk is cheap, but when actually faced with that choice, I'm betting very few would not act to save themselves if it were in their power.

Adopting that attitude may also be a way of avoiding the reality that life sometimes lays very hard choices at our feet. We don't get to choose to not choose, and that is what this type of person wants to do, not have to make such a choice. The reality is just too harsh for them.

As another poster pointed out, it is unconscionable that those people would take action (vote) to deprive others of the means to make their own choice.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:30:03 AM EST

[#27]

Any "Saved Christian" that has OP's family member's attitude (rather be raped than harm someone else) is holding God's greatest gift in contempt.

That gift? HER LIFE.

So she'd let someone rape her rather than harm him? What if he intended to kill her afterward? What if he intended to keep raping and killing other women? I'd flat out tell her that if she did not protect herself from said rapist, she would be a proximate cause of his future crimes.

And I would remind her that she's really, REALLY holding God's greatest gift to her in contempt.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:33:21 AM EST

[#28]

This is what happens when you shut down the mental asylums.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:39:29 AM EST

[#29]

The person that would rape and kill her will most likely do the same to others in the future. By not defending herself and culling that asshole from the human race she is intentionally allowing him to do it to more innocent people. There is nothing noble about that. It is a totally chickenshit excuse for being useless to society.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:43:34 AM EST

[#30]

Jesus died for the sinner so we wouldn't have to die for our own sins.
The victim of a crime doesn't have to die for the sinner.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:46:06 AM EST

[#31]

I used to know a chick that had the same attitude. She was not a Christian, but she was a rape victim. Her words: "A rape only lasts a few minutes. Taking a life is forever. I'd rather be raped again than take a life. I know I can survive it."

I just told her that's fine for her, but she doesn't have the right to make that decision for every woman in America.

Posted: 2/24/2016 12:57:05 AM EST

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
I don't think she understands that someone willing to rape her over and over again is more likely to kill her than your typical rapist and much more likely to kill her than felons in general. Also, I don't think she has thought about the fact that most rapists commit several offences during their life time and that rapist killers tend to progres from less brutal to more brutal rapes.

View Quote

Exactly.

Her acquiescence not only rewards the rapist, but quite possibly dooms other women to the same fate.

Posted: 2/24/2016 1:04:12 AM EST

[#33]

I'm also a Christian, but I don't think that God just wants me to roll over and take serious injury or death at the hands of some punk. I've got a family to provide for and raise and I can't be laid up in a hospital bed or a coffin.

There's also the possibility that if you shoot said punk that he'll survive and have the opportunity to accept Christ later.

ETA (got called away earlier): There are really too many variables and assumptions on the relative's part. When someone threatens you with lethal force, you really have no clue what they'll do to you, even if they tell you what they want, they can change their mind and take more than they originally wanted. "Normal" people try to use reason and logic to figure out mental, homicidal and generally volatile people that don't operate on reason and logic. When lethal force is first threatened, you can't just assume they want money, stuff, sex, etc. you're totally at they're mercy, if they have any.

Defending yourself could be as good as defending countless people down the line, other victims that could become saved.

Posted: 2/24/2016 1:06:16 AM EST

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:

Lots of

.

I would rather be shot than stabbed.

View Quote

Since I'm generally innocent and start no fights nor cause offense, I would rather be able to shoot the bastage what is trying to stab me.

Posted: 2/24/2016 1:11:18 AM EST

[#35]

It is not uncommon for a woman to orgasm during rape.(seriously look that shit up if you think I'm Making it up).

So she may be telling the truth orgasm after orgasm doesn't sound that bad.

Posted: 2/24/2016 2:33:50 AM EST

[#36]

Tell her that The Bible wants her to arm herself:

Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong. Joel 3:10

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He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Then, take her to a Rape Clinic to meet some women that have actually been brutalized and let her spend the day there. It's not all polite and simple like she imagines it is....probably watches too much daytime TV, I'd bet.

Posted: 2/24/2016 2:41:13 AM EST

[#37]

Sign her up for a Craigslist roommate and see if she's lying.

I've known girls who were raped and it messed them up for more than a "few minutes."

Posted: 2/24/2016 2:48:46 AM EST

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
If I were threatened with murder or rape, I would feel bad every time I pulled the trigger. And I would eventually get over it. I'd have beer and go to bed. Hopefully that would do it.

View Quote

Meh. I'd just feel recoil. Or maybe not, depending on the adrenaline.

Posted: 2/24/2016 2:49:38 AM EST

[#39]

I wonder if her opinion would change after being repeatedly raped. Maybe she should consider doing some volunteer work at a womens shelter or a busy ER.

Or maybe not.

Posted: 2/24/2016 2:55:46 AM EST

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:

Sign her up for a Craigslist roommate and see if she's lying.

I've known girls who were raped and it messed them up for more than a "few minutes."

View Quote

I dont think she said the effects last a few min the rape lasts a few min

Posted: 2/24/2016 2:59:54 AM EST

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:

Meh. I'd just feel recoil. Or maybe not, depending on the adrenaline.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
If I were threatened with murder or rape, I would feel bad every time I pulled the trigger. And I would eventually get over it. I'd have beer and go to bed. Hopefully that would do it.

Meh. I'd just feel recoil. Or maybe not, depending on the adrenaline.

I don't think I would feel bad. I think I would be angry for them making me do it, and the inconvenience it would most likely cause. And the concern that there was someone out there that did care enough about them for revenge. And my hearing. When all they had to do was not fuck with people.

Posted: 2/24/2016 3:14:43 AM EST

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
Tell her that The Bible wants her to arm herself:

Then, take her to a Rape Clinic to meet some women that have actually been brutalized and let her spend the day there. It's not all polite and simple like she imagines it is....probably watches too much daytime TV, I'd bet.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:
Tell her that The Bible wants her to arm herself:

Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong. Joel 3:10

He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

Then, take her to a Rape Clinic to meet some women that have actually been brutalized and let her spend the day there. It's not all polite and simple like she imagines it is....probably watches too much daytime TV, I'd bet.

Yep. I've studied enough into the Bible to know if I ever were forced to take a life to protect mine or my family's, that it is justified.

Posted: 2/24/2016 3:25:18 AM EST

[#43]

God helps those who help themselves, so praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

Posted: 2/24/2016 4:08:02 AM EST

[#44]

I would bet that if the situation presented itself in real life...she'd pull the trigger. I've listened to antigunners for years drone on about how morally superior they are. That they'd rather die, get raped etc. than use a weapon. But I cannot help think they'd pull a gun if the situation presented itself. Fuck em, world needs explicit reasons why CCW is a valid point.

Posted: 2/24/2016 4:17:22 AM EST

[#45]

Your female relative sounds like someone who has at some point lost oxygen supply to the brain.... it must be nice in her special little bubble.

Posted: 2/24/2016 4:19:04 AM EST

[#46]

Quoted:

A specific person in my family who is a female has come out and said "I would rather be raped over and over again than take somebody's life."

View Quote

People make choices in life
She made hers.
Hopefully she'll never have to test her commitment to her position.

Posted: 2/24/2016 4:58:39 AM EST

[#47]

Ask her how she would react if say..her daughter were being assaulted or raped.

Posted: 2/24/2016 5:21:13 AM EST

[#48]

I've heard similar statements. Never by anyone who actually survived a deadly encounter though. It was always hypothetical. People are just fucking stupid is all.