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Posted: 1/9/2018 6:08:44 PM EDT
[#1]
I found this pdf interesting reading regarding Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue (concerning invocation of saints and Mary)
https://www.lcms.org/Document.fdoc?src=lcm&id=328 Pope Pius IX comes off as a dick.... 
Pope Pius IX , speaking after the First Vatican Council, included anathemas against any who do not
accept their teaching. After defining the Immaculate Conception, for example, Pius IX continues: Hence, if anyone shall dare--which God forbid!--to think otherwise than as has been defined by Us, let him know and understand that he is condemned by his own judgment; that he has suffered shipwreck in the faith; that he has defected from the unity of the Church; and that, furthermore, by his own action he incurs the penalties established by law if he should dare to express in words or writing or by any other outward means the errors he thinks in his heart. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 6:11:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: John Calvin denounced his former friend and long-time penpal, polymath and physician Micheal Servetus over disagreement on the nature of the trinity and infant baptism. When he came to hear Calvin preach Calvin had him arrested as he left the church and tried him for heresy. Servetus was burned at the stake, the fire fueled with his own books, his last words praying to Christ for mercy. Calvin was lauded as a defender of the faith. I attended Calvin college for a bit during my faith crisis. It actually helped clarify things. Luther wanted Servetus burned too. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 6:16:47 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because she's dead and the dead don't communicate with the living. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 6:21:17 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Bible clearly says that those who die in Christ are not dead but live with Him and are part of his Church. Scripture tells us it is good to pray for each other and pray with each other. Thus, our brothers and sisters who have moved on pray for us and it is regarded the same thing to ask your neighbor for prayers. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 6:21:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you see anyone praying to, or mentioning, the donkey, or any other part of the Nativity Scene? Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen To my non-Catholic eye, that looks a lot like a prayer, including the "Amen" at the end. The Son of God said that He alone could make intercession for us. No direction to seek others to intercede for us. That's what I said. Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you see anyone praying to, or mentioning, the donkey, or any other part of the Nativity Scene? Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen To my non-Catholic eye, that looks a lot like a prayer, including the "Amen" at the end. The Son of God said that He alone could make intercession for us. No direction to seek others to intercede for us. That's what I said. Also let me point you to Luke: Luke 1:26-38King James Version (KJV)
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 6:35:51 PM EDT
[#6]
I found Catholic mass to be boring and I disliked how they taught me that the way to heaven is through the priest. I now go to a non-denominational Christian church that is not boring and teaches me the bible in a way that I understand. Additionally, I agree with Christians that the path to heaven is based on a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
Sadly both groups have a large portion of hypocrites... |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 6:40:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I found Catholic mass to be boring and I disliked how they taught me that the way to heaven is through the priest. I now go to a non-denominational Christian church that is not boring and teaches me the bible in a way that I understand. Additionally, I agree with Christians that the path to heaven is based on a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Sadly both groups have a large portion of hypocrites... That said, to it truly can take years to comprehend some points of Catholic doctrine, as in some cases it has literally 2000 of discernment behind it. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 6:42:29 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Ignorance in this area is unacceptable because ignorance costs Millions of babies their lives and jeopardizes the souls of many Catholic voters. On the other hand, if you do know which candidate and party want to promote and expand abortion and you still to enable them to continue their war on the unborn it is my duty as a priest to tell you that your soul will be in grave danger, especially if you present yourself for Holy Communion after casting a vote in the full knowledge of what you are doing." And totally correct. Honestly, I tend to dislike any political grandstanding during Mass, but I think this is the exception that proves the rule. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 6:49:06 PM EDT
[#9]
I think there is a higher power.
I think that higher power looks down on ALL of these folks making a MINT on what they claim is "his word". For my money, the biggest hypocrites are the "born again" types. Thieving liars out to make a buck. Send in your money for salvation..... 
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Posted: 1/9/2018 6:54:55 PM EDT
[#10]
Transubstantiation
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Posted: 1/9/2018 8:01:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Bible clearly says that those who die in Christ are not dead but live with Him and are part of his Church. Scripture tells us it is good to pray for each other and pray with each other. Thus, our brothers and sisters who have moved on pray for us and it is regarded the same thing to ask your neighbor for prayers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Because she's dead and the dead don't communicate with the living.  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 8:19:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No prayers are said to Mary within the Roman Catholic Church. Its a trope, a falsehood and a completely scurrilous charge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
No prayers are said to Mary within the Roman Catholic Church. Its a trope, a falsehood and a completely scurrilous charge. Quoted:
Catholics don't "worship" Mary...they venerate her and pray to her (and all the saints) to intercede on their behalf. "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death" |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 8:23:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think there is a higher power. I think that higher power looks down on ALL of these folks making a MINT on what they claim is "his word". For my money, the biggest hypocrites are the "born again" types. Thieving liars out to make a buck. Send in your money for salvation..... |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 8:29:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Ya'll need to just follow the same Bible the original 12 did.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 8:29:49 PM EDT
[#15]
Guilt.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 8:30:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Institutionalized abuse of children. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 8:30:28 PM EDT
[#17]
double tap
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Posted: 1/9/2018 8:30:41 PM EDT
[#18]
triple tap
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Posted: 1/9/2018 8:36:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
triple tap |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 8:51:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Most Christians are Catholic.
"They hate us 'cause they ain't us" Most Crusades? Check Most Hospitals? Check Most Schools? Check Most charities? Check Coolest churches? Check An entire city in Italy roped off? Check Signature series bullet proof car? Check Kick ass hats? Check Catholic Church - 1.285 billion (Make up the majority of all Christians, perform more charity work than all other churches combined, have wicked sweet buildings, have their own nation state, frequently ask Mary to see if her son can help them which pisses the other churches off for some reason.) Independent Catholicism - 18 million (Catholic but not too crazy about Rome) Now the list of new start up and/or "fad" churches. Protestantism - 920 million (About half are Baptists of around 700 variations, Anglicanism - 85 million (Won't admit they are Protestant) a splash of Methodists, about 2 dozen Lutherans with the balance being made up of Kentucky snake charmers) Eastern Orthodox Church - 270 million (know Mary was a cool chick, but not Catholic cool) Restorationism and Nontrinitarianism - 35 million (Mormons, Jehovas, scientologists, etc.) Minor branches - 1 million (Down with JC but too crazy to be allowed in other churches ) |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 9:05:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most Christians are Catholic. "They hate us 'cause they ain't us" Most Crusades? Check Most Hospitals? Check Most Schools? Check Most charities? Check Coolest churches? Check An entire city in Italy roped off? Check Signature series bullet proof car? Check Kick ass hats? Check Catholic Church - 1.285 billion (Make up the majority of all Christians, perform more charity work than all other churches combined, have wicked sweet buildings, have their own nation state, frequently ask Mary to see if her son can help them which pisses the other churches off for some reason.) Independent Catholicism - 18 million (Catholic but not too crazy about Rome) Now the list of new start up and/or "fad" churches. Protestantism - 920 million (About half are Baptists of around 700 variations, a splash of Methodists, about 2 dozen Lutherans with the balance being made up of Kentucky snake charmers) Anglicanism - 85 million (Won't admit they are Protestant) Eastern Orthodox Church - 270 million (know Mary was a cool chick, but not Catholic cool) Oriental Orthodoxy – 86 million (Same as above but got into a fight and broke up) Restorationism and Nontrinitarianism - 35 million (Mormons, Jehovas, scientologists, etc.) Minor branches - 1 million (Down with JC but too crazy to be allowed in other churches ) Now, Catholics are the largest Christian Church if you want to say it that way. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 9:14:28 PM EDT
[#22]
The baptist school I attended taught us that Catholics were not really Christians and that rhey were going to hell
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Posted: 1/9/2018 9:36:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, which is it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, which is it? Again, the Catechism states "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 9:40:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Chatichims, Book of Mormon, Ellen G White, Mary Baker Eddy, Calvin, Luther etc. Why not just use the Bible so everyone is on the same page so to speak?
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Posted: 1/9/2018 9:43:08 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 9:49:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Chatichims, Book of Mormon, Ellen G White, Mary Baker Eddy, Calvin, Luther etc. Why not just use the Bible so everyone is on the same page so to speak? |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 9:55:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, in a legal briefing, they pray the court. Again, the Catechism states Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well, which is it? Again, the Catechism states "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary Sola Scriptura. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 9:55:22 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What particular Bible should we use? edit to add. The dead sea scrolls proved the modern Bibles were almost word for word in iirc the book of Isaiah. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:00:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Technically looking at your numbers, wouldn’t there be more “non” catholics..? Now, Catholics are the largest Christian Church if you want to say it that way. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:01:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Celebrating Christmas and Easter is a non-biblical tradition. Quote HistoryQuoted: Celebrating Christmas and Easter is a non-biblical tradition. Easter: Easter, a much earlier development than Christmas, was simply the gradual Christian reinterpretation of Passover in terms of Jesus’ Passion. Its observance could even be implied in the New Testament (1 Corinthians 5:7–8: “Our paschal lamb, Christ, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the festival…”); it was certainly a distinctively Christian feast by the mid-second century C.E., when the apocryphal text known as the Epistle to the Apostles has Jesus instruct his disciples to “make commemoration of [his] death, that is, the Passover.” In an old list of Roman bishops, compiled in A. D. 354 these words appear for A.D. 336: "25 Dec.: natus Christus in Betleem Judeae." December 25th, Christ born in Bethlehem, Judea. This day, December 25, 336, is the first recorded celebration of Christmas. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:07:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Both believe that a being created the entire universe, but one group thinks they can impress said inventor of life and all things known through their good works, while the other understands that we are saved through His grace alone. I'm pretty sure your wrong. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:10:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And, no offense intended at all, but surely you must realize that what you posted means absolutely nothing to a Protestant. We could not care less what your Catechism says. Sola Scriptura. Where in the Bible does Jesus even command the creation of a textual record, and then say it solely sufficient? Considering there were no written records from the Resurrection until around 65AD, what the Church's authority during that period? Were it not for the teaching Magisterium, there would be no Canon of scripture to begin with. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:12:51 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pope is unscriptural. Nobody is between the individual and Jesus Christ. Isn't there a book you believe has the correct answer? |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:15:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where in the Bible does Jesus even command the creation of a textual record, and then say it solely sufficient? I guess we are through. Have a good evening. 
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:16:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Catholicism is a comfortable culture for peasants who can look to Padre, while Protestantism is a creed for the free and self-reliant.
Just the way I see it, after spending twelve years in their schools, and interacting with the Catholic peasants who are swarming into my County. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:18:00 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The baptist school I attended taught us that Catholics were not really Christians and that rhey were going to hell |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:18:15 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And, no offense intended at all, but surely you must realize that what you posted means absolutely nothing to a Protestant. We could not care less what your Catechism says. Sola Scriptura.
Besides, I’m sure you realize that the Chatechism is just a compendium of beliefs and not the source of beliefs—all of which have Biblical basis. The Chatechism is just an explanation of what Catholicism is about and if you really cared or wanted to know what Catholics actually believe, the Chatechism is a real summary, not Jack Chick. That was a pretty arrogant and condescending remark—not typical of you. Are you doing okay? |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:18:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And, no offense intended at all, but surely you must realize that what you posted means absolutely nothing to a Protestant. We could not care less what your Catechism says. Sola Scriptura. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, which is it? Again, the Catechism states "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary Sola Scriptura. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:20:19 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Catholicism is a comfortable culture for peasants who can look to Padre, while Protestantism is a creed for the free and self-reliant. Just the way I see it, after spending twelve years in their schools, and interacting with the Catholic peasants who are swarming into my County. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:20:26 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've already given you the Scripture and you ignored it. I guess we are through. Have a good evening. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:32:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL. Looking at Henry VIII and a plethora of TV preachers I see a strong contradiction to your premise. -Protestant northern Europe: Netherlands, Scandinavia, the German States, Switzerland developed the ethos we associate with Western Civilization during and after the sixteenth century. The Catholic lands of Europe became the poor periphery. In America, Catholic central and South America endured centuries of stagnation, tyranny, slavery. Protestant North America extended and enhanced the ideas of individual responsibility, human freedom, rule of law. Which Catholic country would YOU live in? |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:38:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
-In Europe, self reliant Protestants in the Low Countries threw off the Catholic Habsburg yoke and prospered. In the following century they built a world empire that spanned the globe while Catholic Habsburg Spain stagnated. -Protestant northern Europe: Netherlands, Scandinavia, the German States, Switzerland developed the ethos we associate with Western Civilization during and after the sixteenth century. The Catholic lands of Europe became the poor periphery. In America, Catholic central and South America endured centuries of stagnation, tyranny, slavery. Protestant North America extended and enhanced the ideas of individual responsibility, human freedom, rule of law. You also forget in that “Northern European” group were the Catholic French who expanded and developed Canada and the Louisiana territories during the colonial period. We can agree that European identity and ethics made our new world but to make it Protestant vs Catholic is ignorant of history |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:42:15 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No offense intended but you promote something, Sola Scriptura, that Jesus and the apostles themselves did not believe, nor promote, while they spread the Gospel to the world. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:43:33 PM EDT
[#44]
None of the "regulars" who discuss these topic means to be offensive. There aren't enough smileys to convey how a person is really talking. The way I try to approach it is not to win some argument but point out the truth or somebody (which is everybody) that explains it better than I do. There is a very good chance that every single sincere person in these thread will be in heaven no matter what church you go to. The worst thing we can do is not have an open mind to others beliefs without giving up our principles. As an example, I have a problem with the lack of reverence in some of the churches I've visited. It's partly a generational thing but Catholics and Baptists act like they are on sacred ground when in church. Others are more of a celebratory atmosphere. Does Jesus care? He looks at the heart.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:51:56 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except the parts you don’t like such as “this is my body and this is my blood.”
Besides, I’m sure you realize that the Chatechism is just a compendium of beliefs and not the source of beliefs—all of which have Biblical basis. The Chatechism is just an explanation of what Catholicism is about and if you really cared or wanted to know what Catholics actually believe, the Chatechism is a real summary, not Jack Chick. That was a pretty arrogant and condescending remark—not typical of you. Are you doing okay? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: And, no offense intended at all, but surely you must realize that what you posted means absolutely nothing to a Protestant. We could not care less what your Catechism says. Sola Scriptura.
Besides, I’m sure you realize that the Chatechism is just a compendium of beliefs and not the source of beliefs—all of which have Biblical basis. The Chatechism is just an explanation of what Catholicism is about and if you really cared or wanted to know what Catholics actually believe, the Chatechism is a real summary, not Jack Chick. That was a pretty arrogant and condescending remark—not typical of you. Are you doing okay? Believe as you please, as I have said repeatedly. I will do the same.
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:56:35 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In Europe Catholics retained knowledge that was lost in the dark ages and preserved the classics for future generations. Protestants were not “self reliant” as they succumbed under monarchs that were the rulers of their church while Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese Catholics opened up the New World and took trade as far as Japan. It’s rather ignorant of history to state that Catholicism was a stagnent force in that time period. By your logic the Protestantism is to blame for the abuses of the British Empire and slavery in the American colonies. You also forget in that “Northern European” group were the Catholic French who expanded and developed Canada and the Louisiana territories during the colonial period. We can agree that European identity and ethics made our new world but to make it Protestant vs Catholic is ignorant of history Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
-In Europe, self reliant Protestants in the Low Countries threw off the Catholic Habsburg yoke and prospered. In the following century they built a world empire that spanned the globe while Catholic Habsburg Spain stagnated. -Protestant northern Europe: Netherlands, Scandinavia, the German States, Switzerland developed the ethos we associate with Western Civilization during and after the sixteenth century. The Catholic lands of Europe became the poor periphery. In America, Catholic central and South America endured centuries of stagnation, tyranny, slavery. Protestant North America extended and enhanced the ideas of individual responsibility, human freedom, rule of law. You also forget in that “Northern European” group were the Catholic French who expanded and developed Canada and the Louisiana territories during the colonial period. We can agree that European identity and ethics made our new world but to make it Protestant vs Catholic is ignorant of history |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 10:59:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm just fine, my friend. We believe differently. Unlike Democrats that believe that if you disagree with them you are insane, I believe good men can disagree without being disagreeable. Believe as you please, as I have said repeatedly. I will do the same. God bless you and yours. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 11:01:44 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The British were beggars/pirates thieving what they could from the Spanish empire. Everyone empire has its rise and fall. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 11:02:33 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please define what you believe Sola Scriptura means. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No offense intended but you promote something, Sola Scriptura, that Jesus and the apostles themselves did not believe, nor promote, while they spread the Gospel to the world. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 11:09:40 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You also forget in that "Northern European" group were the Catholic French who expanded and developed Canada and the Louisiana territories during the colonial period. We can agree that European identity and ethics made our new world but to make it Protestant vs Catholic is ignorant of history The United States is another clear example. The Catholic countries south of our border are a negative example. Mexico,Central and South America are favored by geography, climate and all resources. Tens of millions of their citizens flee, and try to enter OUR country, not because of poverty of resources. Because of culture. Catholic culture. The culture of Padre and Jefe. |
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