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Posted: 1/9/2018 11:12:20 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For my money, the biggest hypocrites are the "born again" types. 
To answer the OP - The difference is that Catholics, to the contrary of what the Bible teaches, believe that salvation is not unconditional and requires works. Since this alone sets Christianity apart from every other religion, calling Catholics Christians is not accurate. It should be obvious that the Catholic Church has made themselves to be an integral part of your salvation you cannot live without, as opposed to the Christian faith which requires no organized religious entity or smoke and mirrors. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 11:32:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The parts of the Western Hemisphere dominated by Protestant culture have prospered.. Highest population beside the US. Protestant: 1. Nigeria 2. China 3. Brazil 4. South Africa 5. UK 6. Congo Catholic: 1. Brazil 2. Mexico 3. Italy 4. France 5.Spain 6.Congo |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 11:39:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you know how I know you have no idea what you're talking about....
To answer the OP - The difference is that Catholics, to the contrary of what the Bible teaches, believe that salvation is not unconditional and requires works. Since this alone sets Christianity apart from every other religion, calling Catholics Christians is not accurate. It should be obvious that the Catholic Church has made themselves to be an integral part of your salvation you cannot live without, as opposed to the Christian faith which requires no organized religious entity or smoke and mirrors. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For my money, the biggest hypocrites are the "born again" types.
To answer the OP - The difference is that Catholics, to the contrary of what the Bible teaches, believe that salvation is not unconditional and requires works. Since this alone sets Christianity apart from every other religion, calling Catholics Christians is not accurate. It should be obvious that the Catholic Church has made themselves to be an integral part of your salvation you cannot live without, as opposed to the Christian faith which requires no organized religious entity or smoke and mirrors. Faith does not live without works. We are not saved by our works; but without them, faith is dead. If you want the Scripture references, I can help you. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 11:47:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The answer is simple. There is a lot of foolishness about "which Bible is best". Except for a few modern translations, almost all Bibles say the same thing. As you note, the RCC has the Apocrypha, which are books that Protestant denominations do not believe are part of the Canon. But otherwise, most Catholics would not find the King James Translation to be any different from what they use in their church. Bottom line........Get a Bible and read it. The Holy Spirit will guide anyone that truly wants to understand it. |
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Posted: 1/9/2018 11:49:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Don't you love how people with no idea how the Catholic faith works become self proclaimed experts in these threads? Willfully ignorant and intentionally obtuse......
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Posted: 1/9/2018 11:50:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know you said just in the Western Hemisphere but I don't know man, I feel like our countries are better than yours. Except the Congo, it's a tie but you can keep it (we get Brazil). Highest population beside the US. Protestant: 1. Nigeria 2. China 3. Brazil 4. South Africa 5. UK 6. Congo Catholic: 1. Brazil 2. Mexico 3. Italy 4. France 5.Spain 6.Congo |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 12:43:26 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Catholics don't "worship" Mary...they venerate her and pray to her (and all the saints) to intercede on their behalf. "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death" No different than any thread on this website where a member experiencing an illness or going through a tough time asks the other members to pray for him. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 4:47:09 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
2 Timothy? I'd love to do the exegesis of that passage. The "Scripture" referenced was the Old Testament, as Timothy references his knowledge from infancy, which would necessitate it not being the New Testament. 2Timothy 3:15-16 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2Timothy 1:5,8-10 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also...but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began; But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 5:11:43 AM EDT
[#9]
The Protestant Reformation?
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Posted: 1/10/2018 7:43:59 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Footnote... Easter: Christmas: I have no doubt that the anniversaries of Christ's birth death, and resurrection were observed and celebrated in the early Church, but those annual celebrations/observances are not described in the Bible, so, according to the sola crowd, must be part of the traditions of man. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 7:48:47 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Protestant North America extended and enhanced the ideas of individual responsibility, human freedom, rule of law. Which Catholic country would YOU live in? |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 8:02:11 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The parts of the Western Hemisphere dominated by Protestant culture have prospered. That includes Canada, since Wolfe defeated Montcalm, save Quebec, which proves my point. The United States is another clear example. The Catholic countries south of our border are a negative example. Mexico,Central and South America are favored by geography, climate and all resources. Tens of millions of their citizens flee, and try to enter OUR country, not because of poverty of resources. Because of culture. Catholic culture. The culture of Padre and Jefe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You also forget in that "Northern European" group were the Catholic French who expanded and developed Canada and the Louisiana territories during the colonial period. We can agree that European identity and ethics made our new world but to make it Protestant vs Catholic is ignorant of history The United States is another clear example. The Catholic countries south of our border are a negative example. Mexico,Central and South America are favored by geography, climate and all resources. Tens of millions of their citizens flee, and try to enter OUR country, not because of poverty of resources. Because of culture. Catholic culture. The culture of Padre and Jefe. No Latin culture has corruption since Roman times. Not a catholic thing |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:00:07 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean like Colonia Virginia where Catholics were fined if they attempted to hold public office, deprived of their right to vote, and the government attempted to expel Catholc priests? Much freedom! |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:08:45 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The parts of the Western Hemisphere dominated by Protestant culture have prospered. That includes Canada, since Wolfe defeated Montcalm, save Quebec, which proves my point. The United States is another clear example. The Catholic countries south of our border are a negative example. Mexico,Central and South America are favored by geography, climate and all resources. Tens of millions of their citizens flee, and try to enter OUR country, not because of poverty of resources. Because of culture. Catholic culture. The culture of Padre and Jefe. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:09:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cutting out the middleman |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:13:49 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't you love how people with no idea how the Catholic faith works become self proclaimed experts in these threads? Willfully ignorant and intentionally obtuse...... Posted earlier and never answered. Sounds like they are the ones who have " no idea how the Catholic faith works". |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:18:18 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I love is when two different Catholics give me totally different answers to the question of "Do Catholics pray to Mary?" Posted earlier and never answered. Sounds like they are the ones who have " no idea how the Catholic faith works". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Don't you love how people with no idea how the Catholic faith works become self proclaimed experts in these threads? Willfully ignorant and intentionally obtuse...... Posted earlier and never answered. Sounds like they are the ones who have " no idea how the Catholic faith works". 
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:18:27 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I love is when two different Catholics give me totally different answers to the question of "Do Catholics pray to Mary?" Posted earlier and never answered. Sounds like they are the ones who have " no idea how the Catholic faith works". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Don't you love how people with no idea how the Catholic faith works become self proclaimed experts in these threads? Willfully ignorant and intentionally obtuse...... Posted earlier and never answered. Sounds like they are the ones who have " no idea how the Catholic faith works". Thus, the posting of a clear statement of the theology from the Cathechism to help you understand. Oddly, you dismissed such an explanation as irrelevent. This suggests you really weren’t as interested in understanding as you were in playing a semantic “gotcha.” |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:19:38 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem is that words in modern English like “pray” and “worship” have many meanings today, and are thus imprecise for use for discussing the nuance of theology that goes back 2000+ years, before any modern language even existed. Thus, the posting of a clear statement of the theology from the Cathechism to help you understand. Oddly, you dismissed such an explanation as irrelevent. This suggests you really weren’t as interested in understanding as you were in playing a semantic “gotcha.” Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't you love how people with no idea how the Catholic faith works become self proclaimed experts in these threads? Willfully ignorant and intentionally obtuse...... Posted earlier and never answered. Sounds like they are the ones who have " no idea how the Catholic faith works". Thus, the posting of a clear statement of the theology from the Cathechism to help you understand. Oddly, you dismissed such an explanation as irrelevent. This suggests you really weren’t as interested in understanding as you were in playing a semantic “gotcha.” She is a conduit so to speak? |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:24:23 AM EDT
[#20]
Catholics worship God. Protestants worship the Bible.
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:30:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Catholics are eligible to get into heaven while all others are not.
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:31:47 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Catholics worship God. Protestants worship the Bible. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:35:38 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem is that words in modern English like “pray” and “worship” have many meanings today, and are thus imprecise for use for discussing the nuance of theology that goes back 2000+ years, before any modern language even existed. Thus, the posting of a clear statement of the theology from the Cathechism to help you understand. Oddly, you dismissed such an explanation as irrelevent. This suggests you really weren’t as interested in understanding as you were in playing a semantic “gotcha.” Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't you love how people with no idea how the Catholic faith works become self proclaimed experts in these threads? Willfully ignorant and intentionally obtuse...... Posted earlier and never answered. Sounds like they are the ones who have " no idea how the Catholic faith works". Thus, the posting of a clear statement of the theology from the Cathechism to help you understand. Oddly, you dismissed such an explanation as irrelevent. This suggests you really weren’t as interested in understanding as you were in playing a semantic “gotcha.” Quoted: No prayers are said to Mary within the Roman Catholic Church. Its a trope, a falsehood and a completely scurrilous charge. Quoted:
Catholics don't "worship" Mary...they venerate her and pray to her (and all the saints) to intercede on their behalf. "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death" |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:37:32 AM EDT
[#24]
Repent vs rejoice
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:42:27 AM EDT
[#25]
The rest came later.
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:43:32 AM EDT
[#26]
I guess I don't understand why Catholics would bow their heads, get on their knees, fold their hands and "say or think" to Mary what they want from God.
Why not just ask God? It's like asking your Mom, " Could you ask Dad if he would help me?", when your Dad is standing right there in the same room listening to you. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:45:03 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, I asked an honest and simple question, based upon previous statements by Catholics. Well, which is it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't you love how people with no idea how the Catholic faith works become self proclaimed experts in these threads? Willfully ignorant and intentionally obtuse...... Posted earlier and never answered. Sounds like they are the ones who have " no idea how the Catholic faith works". Thus, the posting of a clear statement of the theology from the Cathechism to help you understand. Oddly, you dismissed such an explanation as irrelevent. This suggests you really weren’t as interested in understanding as you were in playing a semantic “gotcha.” Quoted: No prayers are said to Mary within the Roman Catholic Church. Its a trope, a falsehood and a completely scurrilous charge. Quoted:
Catholics don't "worship" Mary...they venerate her and pray to her (and all the saints) to intercede on their behalf. "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death" Semantics. Edit: all you could ever want to know about the Catholic understanding of Prayer: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P8Z.HTM Marian “prayer” or other invocations of saints to intercede are not “prayer” in that sense. But, for lack of a good word for describing the process of imploring a Saint for word “prayer” is occasionally used. But, you can clearly see that “prayer” in Catholic understanding is understood as directed only to God. If you want to understand Catholic teaching, reading the very document that attempts to condense, codify, and explain them in a straightforward manner is a pretty good place to start. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:49:51 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No different.............well except for the fact that she's been dead for almost 2000 years I mean, Jesus is the son of God, right? So how do Christians get away praying to Jesus, given that God said to pray to no one else but him? Y'all are a bunch or hypocrites. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:50:03 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess I don't understand why Catholics would bow their heads, get on their knees, fold their hands and "say or think" to Mary what they want from God. Why not just ask God? It's like asking your Mom, " Could you ask Dad if he would help me?", when your Dad is standing right there in the same room listening to you. James 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. Matthew 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, Romans 15:30 I appeal to you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf, 2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:55:26 AM EDT
[#30]
Catholics believe that as long as you go to church, confess and give lots of money to the church all of your sins can be absolved.
Protestants believe that you only have to truly believe in Jesus and God(one in the same really) and accept them as your savior. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 9:58:33 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because we’re talking about two different concepts of “prayer.” “Praying” to Mary or another Saint and asking for intercession is not “praying” in the sense of worship. It only gets called “prayer” in a colloquial sense. Semantics. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't you love how people with no idea how the Catholic faith works become self proclaimed experts in these threads? Willfully ignorant and intentionally obtuse...... Posted earlier and never answered. Sounds like they are the ones who have " no idea how the Catholic faith works". Thus, the posting of a clear statement of the theology from the Cathechism to help you understand. Oddly, you dismissed such an explanation as irrelevent. This suggests you really weren’t as interested in understanding as you were in playing a semantic “gotcha.” Quoted: No prayers are said to Mary within the Roman Catholic Church. Its a trope, a falsehood and a completely scurrilous charge. Quoted:
Catholics don't "worship" Mary...they venerate her and pray to her (and all the saints) to intercede on their behalf. "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death" Semantics. It isn't really praying to Mary but through her..........why they do that, I suppose, is to gain added validity to their prayer.............but that one I don't know, just guessing. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:01:18 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jesus has been dead for about that long too, but lots of Christians pray to him. I mean, Jesus is the son of God, right? So how do Christians get away praying to Jesus, given that God said to pray to no one else but him? Y'all are a bunch or hypocrites. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:05:53 AM EDT
[#33]
Lol nevermind
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:07:46 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Catholics are like the northern states in the civil war. I have never heard a conversation among Catholics bellyaching about Protestants and never heard Yankees bellyaching about the Slaver states. The butthurt is red, sore and travels one way lol |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:10:09 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You ever ask a friend to pray for you? Same concept and very scriptural. Scripture tells us to pray for each other. James 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. Matthew 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, Romans 15:30 I appeal to you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf, 2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:10:57 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What I love is when two different Catholics give me totally different answers to the question of "Do Catholics pray to Mary?" Posted earlier and never answered. Sounds like they are the ones who have " no idea how the Catholic faith works". I mean, it's not like two different gun owners ever have different answers as to whether or not owning an AR-15 is a good thing. Also, two different Protestants have never had different answers as to how old the earth is, what translations of the Bible are acceptable, predestination, and on and on and on |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:15:12 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Catholics are like the northern states in the civil war. I have never heard a conversation among Catholics bellyaching about Protestants and never heard Yankees bellyaching about the Slaver states. The butthurt is red, sore and travels one way lol 
And OP’s troll thread has paid off big for him. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:18:49 AM EDT
[#38]
Protestants cut out the middleman.
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:19:20 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have a tad bit of reading comprehension failure. You ignored the part I bolded for you. If we were praying TO her, why would we ask her to pray FOR us? What you have posted is exactly what we have been trying to explain to you--that the intercession of the saints is regarded exactly the same thing as asking a fellow christian to pray FOR you. You ever ask a fellow Christian to pray for you? Also let me point you to Luke: The "Hail Mary" is mostly a direct quote from the angel Gabriel. Are you saying that Gabriel was praying to Mary? When we pray to Christ, it is not unusual to ask him to intercede with His Father - yes? That doesn't make it NOT praying to Christ. Lastly, you have direction from Christ Himself on how to pray. Hint: it wasn't to his mom, or any other saint. Why would you imitate an angel, who wasn't praying at all, rather than follow His Son, who was not only praying, but also explicitly instructing on the proper way to pray? Kind of the whole POINT of Christ, with Catholicism completely misses, is that there IS, and can be, no other intercessor, save Him. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:21:03 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think there is a higher power. I think that higher power looks down on ALL of these folks making a MINT on what they claim is "his word". For my money, the biggest hypocrites are the "born again" types. Thieving liars out to make a buck. Send in your money for salvation.....  |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:26:00 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Catholics believe that as long as you go to church, confess and give lots of money to the church all of your sins can be absolved. Protestants believe that you only have to truly believe in Jesus and God(one in the same really) and accept them as your savior. It is Protestant belief that your Grace is predestined, and that no amount of good works by a Damned soul will save him. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:26:49 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Amen" - ("So let it be") - is a traditional closing to a prayer - yes? When we pray to Christ, it is not unusual to ask him to intercede with His Father - yes? That doesn't make it NOT praying to Christ. Lastly, you have direction from Christ Himself on how to pray. Hint: it wasn't to his mom, or any other saint. Why would you imitate an angel, who wasn't praying at all, rather than follow His Son, who was not only praying, but also explicitly instructing on the proper way to pray? Kind of the whole POINT of Christ, with Catholicism completely misses, is that there IS, and can be, no other intercessor, save Him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: You have a tad bit of reading comprehension failure. You ignored the part I bolded for you. If we were praying TO her, why would we ask her to pray FOR us? What you have posted is exactly what we have been trying to explain to you--that the intercession of the saints is regarded exactly the same thing as asking a fellow christian to pray FOR you. You ever ask a fellow Christian to pray for you? Also let me point you to Luke: The "Hail Mary" is mostly a direct quote from the angel Gabriel. Are you saying that Gabriel was praying to Mary? When we pray to Christ, it is not unusual to ask him to intercede with His Father - yes? That doesn't make it NOT praying to Christ. Lastly, you have direction from Christ Himself on how to pray. Hint: it wasn't to his mom, or any other saint. Why would you imitate an angel, who wasn't praying at all, rather than follow His Son, who was not only praying, but also explicitly instructing on the proper way to pray? Kind of the whole POINT of Christ, with Catholicism completely misses, is that there IS, and can be, no other intercessor, save Him. And, if you don’t believe those in heaven can intercede, what are all those prayers referenced in Revelation, the same “prophecy” I believe you referenced earlier? |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:27:45 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If only there were a free, online, authoritative source of what the Roman Catholic Church teaches and believes... (Catechism of hte Catholic Church) I mean, it's not like two different gun owners ever have different answers as to whether or not owning an AR-15 is a good thing. Also, two different Protestants have never had different answers as to how old the earth is, what translations of the Bible are acceptable, predestination, and on and on and on Of course, @oldpainless rejects the Catechism as an authoritative source of Catholic belief, so I guess we're stuck with only Dr. MacArthur for proof. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:27:49 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Celebrating Christmas and Easter is a non-biblical tradition. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:29:06 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kind of the whole POINT of Christ, with Catholicism completely misses, is that there IS, and can be, no other intercessor, save Him. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:29:43 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where in the Bible does Jesus even command the creation of a textual record, and then say it solely sufficient? |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:31:32 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course, @oldpainless rejects the Catechism as an authoritative source of Catholic belief, so I guess we're stuck with only Dr. MacArthur for proof. I disagree with it, but I know it is an accurate statement of what Catholics believe. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:33:21 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It goes back to who and what Mary was. was she simply the vessel used by God to become man.....or was she something else? Protestants believe she was simply the vessel used, and although blessed for that, she was nothing more than the rest of us, and since she has been dead for around two thousand years, there is nothing to be gained from asking for her intercession..it would be like asking your dead great grandmother to intercede with God on your behalf. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:34:00 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No offense intended but you promote something, Sola Scriptura, that Jesus and the apostles themselves did not believe, nor promote, while they spread the Gospel to the world. My witness to the world will be very different that Peter's or Paul's - as the world is different. Having said that - we have Scripture. We don't need anything else. |
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Posted: 1/10/2018 10:34:39 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not only does "salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus" remove the possibility the scriptures referenced being Old Testament, it confirms we are saved by grace through faith alone. 2Timothy 3:15-16 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2Timothy 1:5,8-10 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also...but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began; But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2 TIM 8-10 says that Jesus has abolished death, so I guess we can agree Mary, nor any believer in Christ is truly dead. |
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