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Posted: 4/8/2022 10:59:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You couldn't even suss out when you started posting in this thread. great help him find it. start at page 5.... |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 10:59:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you are discredited. you know it. you can't even solve your own battles. you mil friend backups are not going to intimidate me Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You're shouting down anyone that agrees with me, which is what I said, and now you're lying about that too. Show me where I said I'm an osint expert. Now I'm calling you out for lying. you are discredited. you know it. you can't even solve your own battles. you mil friend backups are not going to intimidate me You shit on every piece of evidence we discussed, then claimed you didn't need to look at evidence to know Russia did it. On this page you lied about things I've said. You can't keep your argument straight, you're lying, and now you're trying to deflect. You're discredited and your pseudointellectual buddies arent going to intimidate me. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:00:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: great help him find it. start at page 5.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You couldn't even suss out when you started posting in this thread. great help him find it. start at page 5.... So it's not page 7 anymore? |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:01:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: he doesn't need a backup. let him dig himself out of his deceptions Talking about you, cheech. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:01:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You shit on every piece of evidence we discussed, then claimed you didn't need to look at evidence to know Russia did it. On this page you lied about things I've said. You can't keep your argument straight, you're lying, and now you're trying to deflect. You're discredited and your pseudointellectual buddies arent going to intimidate me. I don't have any buddies here... You are the one relying on buddies |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:04:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it's not page 7 anymore? you found the correct page I entered the thread discussion, I am not contesting the correction there are at least 4 of you now....I am sure 4 OSInt enthusiasts, or whatever you call yourselves, can quickly help the little one find where edit: I was denying the events in Bucha if I did in fact do so |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:06:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you found the correct page I entered the thread discussion, I am not contesting the correction there are at least 4 of you now....I am sure 4 OSInt enthusiasts, or whatever you call yourselves, can quickly help the little one where I was denying the events in Bucha Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So it's not page 7 anymore? you found the correct page I entered the thread discussion, I am not contesting the correction there are at least 4 of you now....I am sure 4 OSInt enthusiasts, or whatever you call yourselves, can quickly help the little one where I was denying the events in Bucha Like I said before, he doesn't need any help highlighting your vacillations. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:07:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't have any buddies here... You are the one relying on buddies Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You shit on every piece of evidence we discussed, then claimed you didn't need to look at evidence to know Russia did it. On this page you lied about things I've said. You can't keep your argument straight, you're lying, and now you're trying to deflect. You're discredited and your pseudointellectual buddies arent going to intimidate me. I don't have any buddies here... You are the one relying on buddies So you can't prove I said I'm an osint expert huh. Why are you lying? These guys are joining because they want to. It's entertaining watching you embarrass yourself, though Fremdschämen is a real thing. You think we have a secret chat about you or something? |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:07:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like I said before, he doesn't need any help highlighting your vacillations. then why you here holding his hand? |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:07:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you found the correct page I entered the thread discussion, I am not contesting the correction there are at least 4 of you now....I am sure 4 OSInt enthusiasts, or whatever you call yourselves, can quickly help the little one find where edit: I was denying the events in Bucha if I did in fact do so Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So it's not page 7 anymore? you found the correct page I entered the thread discussion, I am not contesting the correction there are at least 4 of you now....I am sure 4 OSInt enthusiasts, or whatever you call yourselves, can quickly help the little one find where edit: I was denying the events in Bucha if I did in fact do so Continually shitting on the evidence is denial of what the evidence shows. I know that is a difficult concept. Maybe think on it a while. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:08:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: then why you here holding his hand? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Like I said before, he doesn't need any help highlighting your vacillations. then why you here holding his hand? Not sure how you get holding his hand from poking you in your forehead. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:08:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: then why you here holding his hand? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Like I said before, he doesn't need any help highlighting your vacillations. then why you here holding his hand? So it was okay previously when your buddies were here but now you're butthurt that you're alone in your delusions. Here's a hint, you can quit at any time. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:09:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure how you get holding his hand from poking you in your forehead. you can't let your adult friend handle his own business? |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:10:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it was okay previously when your buddies were here but now you're butthurt that you're alone in your delusions. Here's a hint, you can quit at any time. I am not the one who depends on buddies to have my back |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:11:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you can't let your adult friend handle his own business? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not sure how you get holding his hand from poking you in your forehead. you can't let your adult friend handle his own business? There's nothing I have said in the last couple pages that has a direct connection to the "debate" between the two of you. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:13:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's nothing I have said in the last couple pages that has a direct connection to the "debate" between the two of you. Can't you let your friend handle his own business like an adult? |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:13:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not the one who depends on buddies to have my back Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So it was okay previously when your buddies were here but now you're butthurt that you're alone in your delusions. Here's a hint, you can quit at any time. I am not the one who depends on buddies to have my back I've embarrassed you quite thoroughly by myself. Actually that's, not true I did have some help. Thanks for that. (I'm implying you're the one that did most of the work in case you didn't get it). Now, are you going to prove I said I'm an osint expert? Are you going to actually present an argument? I notice you ignore my posts that prove you wrong. Interesting. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:15:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can't you let your friend handle his own business like an adult? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There's nothing I have said in the last couple pages that has a direct connection to the "debate" between the two of you. Can't you let your friend handle his own business like an adult? You've devolved into a 3rd grader on the playground now, you're just butthurt that you've made such a fool of yourself. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:15:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can't you let your friend handle his own business like an adult? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There's nothing I have said in the last couple pages that has a direct connection to the "debate" between the two of you. Can't you let your friend handle his own business like an adult? If you'd like to have business with me as well then we can handle that like adults. Right now it sounds more like you're whining like a toddler about being picked on. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:18:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not surprising AT ALL, that YOU are still here after 3 days, and simultaneously talking shit to me for also being here. Once again the irony is totally lost on you. It's pretty obvious what I think, I've told you many times but I'm also unsurprised you didn't pay attention or don't grasp it. I'm one of these crazy guys that looks at the entirety of the information available, and then if possible, makes a determination about what's going on. Note, you can't always come to a conclusion, but often you can. Bucha is one of those examples when we can know pretty confidently what happened. You deny this...oh wait, then you admit it... You want to talk about circular arguments, this coming from the guy who said you can't believe ANYTHING then 5 pages later said "oh well, OBVIOUSLY Russians are doing that, we don't really even need any proof of it". Tell me about my circular arguments now. I always want to sharpen up my debate skills. Be specific. The pseudointellectualism coming from your camp is what's cringeworthy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Red herring ETA- also fascinating you choose to believe this source. You guys have been giving us a raft of shit for believing the MSM (which isn't even what we're doing) then you come in here with a link to the MSM. The irony. The only person to link the MSM here is YOU. Pseudointellectualism.... hard to believe you are still in here carrying on as you are after 3 days... really not sure what you think. the continuous circular arguments are tiring. mature people who are independent thinkers are not going to abandon their own faculties of critical thinking and assessment, and all a sudden allow afcom OSintBros to start dictating what they should believe and think. maybe that works in the closed military sub-forum, idk one can only guess your motivations and agendas. the inflated sense of self-importance coming out of your camp is cringeworthy It's not surprising AT ALL, that YOU are still here after 3 days, and simultaneously talking shit to me for also being here. Once again the irony is totally lost on you. It's pretty obvious what I think, I've told you many times but I'm also unsurprised you didn't pay attention or don't grasp it. I'm one of these crazy guys that looks at the entirety of the information available, and then if possible, makes a determination about what's going on. Note, you can't always come to a conclusion, but often you can. Bucha is one of those examples when we can know pretty confidently what happened. You deny this...oh wait, then you admit it... You want to talk about circular arguments, this coming from the guy who said you can't believe ANYTHING then 5 pages later said "oh well, OBVIOUSLY Russians are doing that, we don't really even need any proof of it". Tell me about my circular arguments now. I always want to sharpen up my debate skills. Be specific. The pseudointellectualism coming from your camp is what's cringeworthy. YOU need to (1) show the post where I deny the events in Bucha (2) show the post where I claim nothing can be believed (3) show the post where I claim evidence is NOT needed |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:23:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: YOU need to (1) show the post where I deny the events in Bucha (2) show the post where I claim nothing can be believed (3) show the post where I claim evidence is NOT needed Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Red herring ETA- also fascinating you choose to believe this source. You guys have been giving us a raft of shit for believing the MSM (which isn't even what we're doing) then you come in here with a link to the MSM. The irony. The only person to link the MSM here is YOU. Pseudointellectualism.... hard to believe you are still in here carrying on as you are after 3 days... really not sure what you think. the continuous circular arguments are tiring. mature people who are independent thinkers are not going to abandon their own faculties of critical thinking and assessment, and all a sudden allow afcom OSintBros to start dictating what they should believe and think. maybe that works in the closed military sub-forum, idk one can only guess your motivations and agendas. the inflated sense of self-importance coming out of your camp is cringeworthy It's not surprising AT ALL, that YOU are still here after 3 days, and simultaneously talking shit to me for also being here. Once again the irony is totally lost on you. It's pretty obvious what I think, I've told you many times but I'm also unsurprised you didn't pay attention or don't grasp it. I'm one of these crazy guys that looks at the entirety of the information available, and then if possible, makes a determination about what's going on. Note, you can't always come to a conclusion, but often you can. Bucha is one of those examples when we can know pretty confidently what happened. You deny this...oh wait, then you admit it... You want to talk about circular arguments, this coming from the guy who said you can't believe ANYTHING then 5 pages later said "oh well, OBVIOUSLY Russians are doing that, we don't really even need any proof of it". Tell me about my circular arguments now. I always want to sharpen up my debate skills. Be specific. The pseudointellectualism coming from your camp is what's cringeworthy. YOU need to (1) show the post where I deny the events in Bucha (2) show the post where I claim nothing can be believed (3) show the post where I claim evidence is NOT needed You need to present an actual argument Stop crying about being ganged up on Read the posts I write Show the post where I said I'm an OSINT expert like you claim Once again, denial of the evidence that we pointed out and arguing against every single piece that we brought is the same as denying the event took place. The hilarious part is that eventually you actually agreed that the ocint bros were correct. Stop being obtuse. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:24:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You need to present an actual argument Stop crying about being ganged up on Read the posts I write Show the post where I said I'm an OSINT expert like you claim Once again, denial of the evidence that we pointed out and arguing against every single piece that we brought is the same as denying the event took place. The hilarious part is that eventually you actually agreed that the ocint bros were correct. Stop being obtuse. not crying about being ganged up on i am asking you to back up your own comments factually |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:28:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: not crying about being ganged up on i am asking you to back up your own comments factually Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You need to present an actual argument Stop crying about being ganged up on Read the posts I write Show the post where I said I'm an OSINT expert like you claim Once again, denial of the evidence that we pointed out and arguing against every single piece that we brought is the same as denying the event took place. The hilarious part is that eventually you actually agreed that the ocint bros were correct. Stop being obtuse. not crying about being ganged up on i am asking you to back up your own comments factually Most of this page is you crying about being ganged up on. You don't remember shitting on the evidence for like 10 pages? You don't remember making fun of the intel guys looking at OSINT and agreeing they're correct? You forgot that? Now I'm asking you to back up your own comments. Show me where I said I'm an OSINT expert. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:29:15 PM EDT
[#24]
There should be a link to this thread under word futile in the dictionary.
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:29:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RT is Russian state media. If you're a fan of Russia + Putin and looking to confirm your priors, look no further. If you actually want to learn what's happening in the world, read something boring and unbiased like The Economist, The Atlantic, or Foreign Affairs. That RT piece about Bucha is an absolute joke. Ukraine cannot stage a massacre like that. Bodies days or weeks old left to rot in the streets. Videos of Russian soldiers and vehicles killing people. Have you seen the photo of the naked, shot dead little girl heaped on top of the rest of her family? That's a fun one. How about the mother that tried to bury her daughter in her yard after she opened her front gate thinking Ukrainan solders had liberated the town, only to be shot by Russians? Must be fake too. All just a giant psych op, intricately orchestrated by Ukranians, despite the hours of footage, thousands of photos, hundreds of dead bodies, all before Ukranian regulars even got close to the town. (Removed, CoC-6~guns762) Lol you really think these magazines aren't biased ?   
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:29:31 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "retired mil guys" are all a sudden "legit intel guys" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Rhetorically I ask, did it escape your notice that people with legit credentials deliberately discuss this stuff in areas that you do not have access to specifically to escape the kind of SNR you're bringing to the discussion? "legit intel guys" are hanging their hats and reputations on endorsing amateur twitter OSINTs; in private channels of arfcom while violating tenets of their top secret clearance ......talk about being deluded Jesus dude. There's absolutely nothing wrong with guys in the know saying something that is UNCLASS is correct. YOU said they're "hanging their hat" but that's made up bullshit by you. They didn't endorse either, they merely said that certain osint accounts on Twitter are pretty accurate. Stop changing the argument. You have absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about, and you're making a fool of yourself. Many of the mil guys there know each other irl and all are vetted as actual mil by site staff that is also mil. You're hopelessly fucking ignorant. "retired mil guys" are all a sudden "legit intel guys" Here's one, with a bonus lie about "retired" mil guys. That was a nice little addition with no factual basis. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:30:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: twitter twat tards getting their evidence from other twitter twat tards... pretending they are important OSINT analysts then having a big 1500 page party in arfcom ......wish this was some fallacy, but sadly it is not Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No shit. Think that’s probably enough tard jousting for the evening. twitter twat tards getting their evidence from other twitter twat tards... pretending they are important OSINT analysts then having a big 1500 page party in arfcom ......wish this was some fallacy, but sadly it is not Here's another. I'll remind you that you eventually agreed they are correct. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:31:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what narrative? arfcom twitter twat tards thinking they are OSINT intelligence analysts? you get the intel from facebook too? LOL i suggest you should go straight to reputable sources for information and apply critical thinking; it's what I do Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Doesn't fit his narrative what narrative? arfcom twitter twat tards thinking they are OSINT intelligence analysts? you get the intel from facebook too? LOL i suggest you should go straight to reputable sources for information and apply critical thinking; it's what I do Here's another, I'll remind you that you posted this AFTER I posted the link to ISW, which you didn't even look at then posted yourself as "legit". |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:32:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "legit intel guys"...... who are they? name them Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What reputable sources do you recommend? If you seek actual reputable open source intel, I can suggest first starting with ISW for their "Russian Offensive Campaign Assessments" that are published daily. You will find good synopsis on how everything is progressing. edit: it is actual legitimate open source intel. not twitter twat OSINTbro junk You keep glossing over the part where the legit Intel guys say the osint bros are pretty damn accurate. You can't have it both ways. "legit intel guys"...... who are they? name them Here's another, here you're deluded enough to think they're going to name themselves. Hint: people like you are why they don't leave the .mil forum. Shall I keep going or???? |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:35:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's one, with a bonus lie about "retired" mil guys. That was a nice little addition with no factual basis. redacted DD214 requirement |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:39:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's another, here you're deluded enough to think they're going to name themselves. Hint: people like you are why they don't leave the .mil forum. Shall I keep going or???? asked for something more than the hearsay you were spewing; edit: wrongly assumed it was something public domain now your turn: (1) show the post where I deny the events in Bucha (2) show the post where I claim nothing can be believed (3) show the post where I claim evidence is NOT needed |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:48:44 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: asked for something more than the hearsay you were spewing; edit: wrongly assumed it was something public domain now your turn: (1) show the post where I deny the events in Bucha (2) show the post where I claim nothing can be believed (3) show the post where I claim evidence is NOT needed Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here's another, here you're deluded enough to think they're going to name themselves. Hint: people like you are why they don't leave the .mil forum. Shall I keep going or???? asked for something more than the hearsay you were spewing; edit: wrongly assumed it was something public domain now your turn: (1) show the post where I deny the events in Bucha (2) show the post where I claim nothing can be believed (3) show the post where I claim evidence is NOT needed lmao, I quoted you above shitting on all the info about Bucha. If you believed it happened you wouldn't have done that...unless you're just an insufferable contrarian.... That's good enough. You're never going to provide the proof of the lie you told about me claiming to be an OSINT expert either, and you're never going to make a real argument. |
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Posted: 4/8/2022 11:55:50 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lmao, I quoted you above shitting on all the info about Bucha. If you believed it happened you wouldn't have done that...unless you're just an insufferable contrarian.... That's good enough. You're never going to provide the proof of the lie you told about me claiming to be an OSINT expert either, and you're never going to make a real argument. YOU are a liar. You are continuing to lie, even after being called out for it. Your little games of deflecting are not working. You are discredited. Plain and Simple. |
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Posted: 4/9/2022 12:05:40 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: YOU are a liar. You are continuing to lie, even after being called out for it. Your little games of deflecting are not working. You are discredited. Plain and Simple. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: lmao, I quoted you above shitting on all the info about Bucha. If you believed it happened you wouldn't have done that...unless you're just an insufferable contrarian.... That's good enough. You're never going to provide the proof of the lie you told about me claiming to be an OSINT expert either, and you're never going to make a real argument. YOU are a liar. You are continuing to lie, even after being called out for it. Your little games of deflecting are not working. You are discredited. Plain and Simple. It's right there for you to read. Sounds like you're the one deflecting. You can't win your original argument. So you finally agree the osint bros were right. Now you're doing this weird thing even though I've quoted your nonsense here. Someone is discredited all right. It's just not who you think it is. You lied about things said as far back as page 12 or so. You did it again on the last page. |
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Posted: 4/9/2022 12:15:36 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's right there for you to read. Sounds like you're the one deflecting. You can't win your original argument. So you finally agree the osint bros were right. Now you're doing this weird thing even though I've quoted your nonsense here. Someone is discredited all right. It's just not who you think it is. You lied about things said as far back as page 12 or so. You did it again on the last page. Show the posts depicting where I said the things you claim I did. It is this simple... ...but we both know you are not going to do that, because no such posts from me exist. feel free to continue cherry picking things I may have innocently, but inaccurately assumed about the private mil sub-forum that I know very little about other than lots of retired mil guys are there... this is going nowhere. you prove yourself a "low character" person. enjoy your night |
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Posted: 4/9/2022 12:33:34 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Show the posts depicting where I said the things you claim I did. It is this simple... ...but we both know you are not going to do that, because no such posts from me exist. feel free to continue cherry picking things I may have innocently, but inaccurately assumed about the private mil sub-forum that I know very little about other than lots of retired mil guys are there... this is going nowhere. you prove yourself a "low character" person. enjoy your night Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's right there for you to read. Sounds like you're the one deflecting. You can't win your original argument. So you finally agree the osint bros were right. Now you're doing this weird thing even though I've quoted your nonsense here. Someone is discredited all right. It's just not who you think it is. You lied about things said as far back as page 12 or so. You did it again on the last page. Show the posts depicting where I said the things you claim I did. It is this simple... ...but we both know you are not going to do that, because no such posts from me exist. feel free to continue cherry picking things I may have innocently, but inaccurately assumed about the private mil sub-forum that I know very little about other than lots of retired mil guys are there... this is going nowhere. you prove yourself a "low character" person. enjoy your night I quoted them and explained it all to you. Multiple times. I'm perfectly happy to be called a person of low character by someone like you, means I'm doing something right. |
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Posted: 4/9/2022 7:25:28 AM EDT
[#37]
I enjoyed the part where his suggested alternative to twatter OSINT bros was a corporate group that does, wait for it, OSINT.
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Posted: 4/9/2022 8:06:07 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There should be a link to this thread under word futile in the dictionary. |
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Posted: 4/9/2022 9:52:28 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There should be a link to this thread under word futile in the dictionary. Roland is quite the fanatic - I'll give him that. 
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Posted: 4/9/2022 9:58:26 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Roland is quite the fanatic - I'll give him that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There should be a link to this thread under word futile in the dictionary. Roland is quite the fanatic - I'll give him that. JFC you just couldn't let the thread die could you. I always love guys like you, it's okay for YOU all to debate, but anyone that calls you on your shit is a fanatic, emotional, or whatever. You just can't stand it. Fwiw, Hippo (I believe) was making a comment about the other guys being hopelessly ignorant. I'll also note that you didn't actually have anything to add to the discussion but this shit. I've laid mine out, what's yours? |
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Posted: 4/9/2022 10:12:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: JFC you just couldn't let the thread die could you. I always love guys like you, it's okay for YOU all to debate, but anyone that calls you on your shit is a fanatic, emotional, or whatever. You just can't stand it. Fwiw, Hippo (I believe) was making a comment about the other guys being hopelessly ignorant. I'll also note that you didn't actually have anything to add to the discussion but this shit. I've laid mine out, what's yours? Appropriate avatar is appropriate. 
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Posted: 4/9/2022 10:28:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Appropriate avatar is appropriate. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: JFC you just couldn't let the thread die could you. I always love guys like you, it's okay for YOU all to debate, but anyone that calls you on your shit is a fanatic, emotional, or whatever. You just can't stand it. Fwiw, Hippo (I believe) was making a comment about the other guys being hopelessly ignorant. I'll also note that you didn't actually have anything to add to the discussion but this shit. I've laid mine out, what's yours? Appropriate avatar is appropriate. I could think of a more appropriate one for a few people in this thread lol |
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Posted: 4/11/2022 10:58:53 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Either gaslighting or ignorance. This is t about charities or fraternal organizations this is about news companies, political parties and pressure groups which are funded and directed by a foreign company. In the US that’s a crime even in peacetime let alone war. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Can you truly tell who is who? How many "Americans" with no blood relations to Chinese and Russian receive money from those countries to do things that go from sedition to treason? How many Chinese and Russians came here because they were sick and tired of their countries' governments and would do anything to oppose them? Yet, they are discriminated because of their ancestry? Transpose this to Ukraine and they could be doing the same mistakes. A Ukrainian friend of mine moved with his family to Poland because he was sick and tired of Ukraine's never-ending corruption. If one day Poland and Ukraine go at odds, would it be fair to put him and his family in a camp? If you were a government trying to undermine an enemy state, would you use obvious resources? Either gaslighting or ignorance. This is t about charities or fraternal organizations this is about news companies, political parties and pressure groups which are funded and directed by a foreign company. In the US that’s a crime even in peacetime let alone war. Is that so? How many have gone to prison here in the US for doing so or worse? |
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Posted: 4/11/2022 11:00:11 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine is the third most corrupt in Europe. Russia is the first. Worldwide the disparity increases. In some rankings Ukraine is less corrupt than Mexico. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "Rocket man" gets 100%. It's just a matter of who "counts" the votes. The guy who taught them that was their "neighbor". In a country plagued by corruption (3rd in the world?), do you believe in election results? Ukraine is the third most corrupt in Europe. Russia is the first. Worldwide the disparity increases. In some rankings Ukraine is less corrupt than Mexico. Yet, you evaded the main question. |
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Posted: 4/11/2022 11:09:14 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Put the goalposts down. This entire line of discussion is dragging on because you have taken great pains to be overly dismissive of the work of multiple, independent sources of data and analysis which are corroborated by multiple other individuals working in independent official channels which often arrive at the same conclusions well in advance of public notice through media channels. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought about who touches the information. In RT's case, since it belongs to the Russian state, any information will pass by a censor's desk at some point, if not multiple times, between someone writing it and it being published. In the satellite imagery case, who touched that data between the photos/videos were taken and then they reached the intended audience? So, I think we are all talking about chain of custody. And, because of that, "regular dudes on the street" have to swallow any bs that's spit on them? Gee, wouldn't it be nice if there were mechanisms by which to validate information without relying on official sources? Definitely. And that's what we are discussing here. And just because sometimes there's no agreement about the information credibility, it does not mean that is it "Russian talking points" as some try to imply. If it's RT, it's literally Russian talking points. Dancing around it or glossing over that fact doesn't make it go away. You have been told a 100% truth that this is the most well documented conflict in history and you are making an active choice to ignore a wealth of high confidence OSINT work in favor of headlines that line up with what you choose to believe. If you go back, no one is questioning that RT is the Russian side, or propaganda. What is being questioned is the information presented to the American public, which also comes from very questionable sources. Therefore, as OP suggested, using RT to help figuring out where the truth really is might not be a bad idea. I haven't gone to that website yet but might take a look. The truth will be hidden somewhere between what the MSM and its cohorts have been vomiting and what Russia and China have been spitting. The difficult part is filtering the useful stuff from the trash. You are crafting a strawman from a false dichotomy that the only sources of information available are MSM and whatever its positional antithesis might be. You should not do that. I used "MSM and cohorts" as a general descriptive. I agree there are many more sources in between the two extremes. The big problem is how to find them. Even in this very website it is not easy to figure out what is real and what is not, mostly when there's a group hellbent on painting anyone and anything that do not flow with "free Ukraine!" narrative as "Russian propaganda". I read a couple posts talking about threads that try to impartially discuss what's going on using intelligence and military expertise. Where are they? Some that were started to discuss the backstage of that war were quickly trashed by that nonsensical discussion. Those threads aren't anywhere you can get at them because the torrent of idiocy in GD drove them elsewhere where there are better noise filters and better contributors. GD should probably take a break to ponder that dynamic. So, that leaves only GD, which will keep doing its "GD thing" to discuss this, since the filtered threads aren't accessible to everyone. And, for the obvious reasons, the discussions will keep going all over template. What makes me curious is why some members, usually the same ones, tend to show up in the threads that try to discuss the whys and other issues that do not go with the official "free Ukraine!" narrative and trash them with "Russian propaganda", "Putin lovers", etc. and nothing useful to contribute. That males those members no different than those fanatical leftists and just show a desperation to hide the actual truth. Let alone that their credibility is already trashed. However, for me, the worst part is that all this only diverts the attention from much worse things happening at home and if they are not fixed ASAP the US will go the same way of Ukraine, if not worse. This may come as something of a shock, but people might actually get trashed with "Russian propaganda" when they are echoing actual Russian talking points. What is "Russian propaganda"? Suddenly, the media, politicians, and even some once-reputable government agencies that lie through their teeth are telling the truth (i.e. "free Ukraine!" narrative). I once even got a member telling me that "soros was doing a good thing now by going against Putin". So, can I say that "Putin is doing a good thing for going against soros"? The latter is currently a much bigger problem for the US than the first, as well as several of the US politicians backing Ukraine. Furthermore, a many people once criticizing and censoring others because of "Russian collusion" ended-up exposed as the ones doing it. I suspect you may be overthinking the problem if you are struggling with a definition of Russian propaganda. Just want to set expectations and terms & definitions since it appears that anything that goes against the "free Ukraine!" narrative is labeled as "Russian propaganda".  Roland's response notwithstanding, your continued use of "free Ukraine! narrative" is pointedly dismissive. We're using the term "Russian propaganda" in a literal sense in that people are, deliberately or otherwise, taking stances and repeating talking points that directly align with Russian statements or interests. This is a very vague and broad definition. Using the same metrics, one can also say that the "free Ukraine!" narrative uses MSM and typical leftist talking points, which are also based in lies as the Russian's. Furthermore, as I also compared before, if aligning with the gang (e.g. soros, hillary, pedo Joe, etc.) that is promoting the invasion in the US' southern border is OK because it's "convenient" ("enemy of my enemy..."), then one can use the same argument that Russia is an ally by convenience, since it's against that gang (assuming it really is - jury still out). After all, the southern border invasion is a much more pressing issue for the Americans. However, I do not agree with partnerships with the devil. And I also do not see anyone here defending Putin or Russia. Therefore, if, by coincidence, it matches some "Russian talking points", it just shows that the "free Ukraine!" talking points being questioned are bs and do not hold water to a point that a simple "Russian talking point" easily challenges them. Sun Tzu is a real thing and ignoring or censoring opposing views usually lead to bad results. The Russian's Keystone Cops performance in this war, if really happening, could have been caused by Putin only keeping "yes men" on his side, which is typical of autocrats. That's a lot of non sequitur to justify ignoring that the people that you are talking about haven't once cited MSM as a source. You probably missed the folks quoting CNN, WaPo and alike. Even read a post saying that "this time the MSM was telling the truth" while others were defending soros. So, there's that. And it's not "non-sequitur", unless you want to focus on the tree and not the forest. Put the goalposts down. This entire line of discussion is dragging on because you have taken great pains to be overly dismissive of the work of multiple, independent sources of data and analysis which are corroborated by multiple other individuals working in independent official channels which often arrive at the same conclusions well in advance of public notice through media channels. I have yet to see this data that you are describing. I asked for links to the threads that have solid and reputable information and still got none. So far, I saw a lot of bs and near-fanatic posts, with nothing to back them, saying that what does not fit the "free Ukraine!" narrative is "Russian propaganda" and who posts them are "Putin lovers". |
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Posted: 4/11/2022 11:12:09 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those mature, independent geniuses you’re talking about watch videos of people sobbing about their loved ones being raped and murdered and then say “maybe they are crisis actors!” Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: hard to believe you are still in here carrying on as you are after 3 days... really not sure what you think. the continuous circular arguments are tiring. mature people who are independent thinkers are not going to abandon their own faculties of critical thinking and assessment, and all a sudden allow afcom OSintBros to start dictating what they should believe and think. maybe that works in the closed military sub-forum, idk one can only guess your motivations and agendas. the inflated sense of self-importance coming out of your camp is cringeworthy Those mature, independent geniuses you’re talking about watch videos of people sobbing about their loved ones being raped and murdered and then say “maybe they are crisis actors!” Considering that the vast majority of the information arriving here come from sources known for making things up, is that an unreasonable question? |
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Posted: 4/11/2022 11:14:13 AM EDT
[#47]
FARA isn’t used enough in the US.
I believe they the last several elections in Ukraine had results that were valid. Other seem to believe that when an election is of disputed validity it’s wrong to show up and demand that the results be recognized as fake. Meaning Russians, their stooges, and liberals. |
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Posted: 4/11/2022 11:16:43 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Considering that the vast majority of the information arriving here come from sources known for making things up, is that an unreasonable question? The best you’re going to get is primary sources. Those can still be lies. Go find them. I have a feeling there are no sources that say things you don’t want to believe, which you’ll call reliable. |
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Posted: 4/11/2022 11:19:26 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have yet to see this data that you are describing. I asked for links to the threads that have solid and reputable information and still got none. So far, I saw a lot of bs and near-fanatic posts, with nothing to back them, saying that what does not fit the "free Ukraine!" narrative is "Russian propaganda" and who posts them are "Putin lovers". You were told where to find it. Another one that thinks everyone but his side are fanatics. Which side keeps bringing this thread back though? |
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Posted: 4/11/2022 11:19:44 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryThat sums it up quite well. Let's see how long it will take to be labeled as "Russian propaganda".  |
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