Those two guys are at the top of the hero list IMO.

A lot of guys react to a situation at hand and do heroic things...those guys begged to get infilled, knowing they were done for.

This.  Especially #3. The movie is strictly from the tactical perspective, but lots of "hints" on the strategic picture you couldn't miss.

"Hey, dude, we made the news.  Wife says anti-American protests and some Youtube video."  

"I didn't see any protests."

Great scene: "If you don't send F16s, a lot of Americans, including the one you're talking to, are going to die."

Next shot:  Six F16s sitting on the ramp, canopies open, no hustle and bustle, and a lone crew chief standing and waiting....

As an aside, I'm very curious where they filmed the movie.

Apples:oranges.

Did I say there was zero mil experience anywhere in the security chain of command?  No.

Is it 100% ex-SF and SEALS?  No.

Dept. of State personnel proper rarely have any mil experience; fact...and they are the decision makers.

You can't rule out a "show of force"...sometimes, the mere seconds it takes for the bad guys to look up and say WTF? is enough for the good guys to gain the initiative.

Initially, the bad guys don't know what they are/not going to do or even if they are/not armed.

Might not have made a difference; might have...it's another option that shouldn't have been ruled out.

I hate the term, but it was what it was:  neither facility was adequately protected and they had no hardened facility to go to.

Working with the hand they were dealt, if (and this is based on the book) the guys had left immediately, before things got bad, they might have been able to prevent the attackers from gaining the initiative.

It goes back to my previous Catch 22 statement:  react quickly and forcefully and you may prevent the bad guys from gaining the initiative, but you will be branded a cowboy.  Wait until the situation in known and/or you're given clearance to go, your fault for being too late.

Remember, they were protecting mostly (not ALL/100%) civilians with no military experience; per the book, the protectees were often oblivious to the danger they were in.

I understand that.  How hard would it have been for oboso to use his magic phone to give authorization to africom so they could send in SF?

Or better yet why didn't state allow the SF that had been in country prior to Stevens visit to stay an extra month or so?

I place blame solely on the gov and because of them 4 good men died in that shit hole.

Having just read the book, and have been interested in this debacle from the day it happened,

I'm absolutely amazed that there was not machine guns/mini-guns set up to cover the gates,

and they did not open fire the instant the gates were breached.



It was stated that they had 249's with thousands of rounds, why not let loose?

All the bad guys came thru the gates, so block the gates with bodies.



Not being any sort of military type dude, maybe I'm just full of shit, but even as they were prepping

for the imminent attack, there should and could have been the means to defend the gates, no?

Relying on the local militia 'contractors' that all just 'disappeared' sounds very fucky, too.



IMHO YMMV

i just saw it this morning and the end broke me down in anger; upsetting and infuriating.

The SD had m4's and side arms they didn't have any MG's.  I don't know why they didn't have 240's or anything else.

Much of it was filmed in Malta and Morocco.

My feelings on the movie.

The forces (a CIF on exercise in Croatia  and a FAST from Rota) actually belonged to EUCOM, the reason they could not move was they belonged to EUCOM and prior to the new norm exorder only the SECDEF or President could order a change of OPCON from one Geographic Combattant Commander to another.  That did not happen till that morning.  

The reasons the SST was reduced was DoS refuse the offer from DoD to extend them because they were in a rush to normalize relationships.  DoS was actual pursuing weapons permits for the local guard force (kind of a joke if you think about it) and the most humorous the advertisement actually mentioned extending same sex partner benefits for those hired.

Either way the FedGov is to blame for the 4 dead Americans.

Also wasn't a Gen and Adm both relieved because of them sending in a QRF type force?

I have not seen the movie yet, but will. I would mention from having read the book, that of you look at the composite picture of the attackers entering the ambassador's villa, there are about 30 shots of Libyans entering the building. At least 60% were unarmed.

Had Stevens moved the kilometer from the ambassador residence to the CIA compound to fall in on the security there, , and cut loose the Libyan militia security force who bolted at the first sign of trouble, he would have had a fighting chance.

There was speculation that General Ham had an early change of command because of it. The .gov and .mil have obviously said it wasn't related.

 

Damn straight review right there.

State department and POTUS only.

True that.

It seems obvious that as fluid as things were on the ground, a lot of what happened was because of decisions and events right there in Benghazi. I'm still pissed, though, at Secretary Clinton's response to the repeated calls for increases in security before the event, and at her attempt to minimize it and make it go away afterwards by lying to the American people when it was obvious that a coordinated attack had taken place.

I think one of the things that gets a lot of people upset is that we have this picture in our minds that if something like this went down, we'd have a military response mounted from a nearby base very quickly. It appears that the reality is more dogged by bureaucracy (which is unsurprising). My question is whether Secretary Clinton or President Obama could have instantly overridden that bureaucracy, and if they could and had, whether there would have been anything more than political fallout as a result.

What they're really doing is keeping their mouths shut in fear that they maybe next.

IIRC there was a adm that was also relieved.

Just got back. Go see this movie and show support. It's sobering, it will anger you, and FBHO / FHRC. Excellent movie.

No, Laser guided munitions home on wave length that cannot be seen by NVGs

You have to use a special imager called a seespot to see the beam.  


PEQ-15 like lasers can be used to point out targets to be attacked by people wearing googles, for night CAS there is a procedure calling roping and snaking, were you lasso the aircraft so they see where you are and can confirm you see them and than you snake the beam around the target so the crew can see where you want them to attack.

I actually thought Jim from Scranton did a really good job.

Concur.

Went to the early show today (1:30)...theater was packed.

My girlfriend and I just got back from the movie. It was sobering.

Overall, excellent film. The action sequences were amazing and the acting was decent too. The story was told well.

As many of you said, you will leave the theater angry. I sure did.

My girlfriend asked "Why didn't they (US .gov) send support? Our aircraft could have been their in hours." I didn't know where to begin.

I plan to support this film by going to see it again.

I'm listening to the book right now on amazon's audible. Might have to go see it again as well.

If its a VFR situation, slow enough air speed for the pilot to make a visual, etc. and all parties are on NODs, an M4 mounted PEQ can ID the target just fine.

Please watch it. I saw it today and I plan to see it again tomorrow.

It is important to honor these heroes by seeing what they went through, and also important to support the director for putting out this money.

Same.

Everyone was quiet leaving the theater. Wasn't much of the usual coming and going stuff during the film either.

I watched Blackhawk Down this afternoon on TV.

now I can hate Hillary for the same reasons for which  I learned to hate Bill.

I'll probably be seeing it again as well, just so I can look at it with a different eye this time. It's a lot to take in.

Because it would have made his promotion very difficult

Some critics were vicious in their condemnation of "Blackhawk Down." Any guess as to their political tilt?

Of course, I was very interested in the event when it first happened back in 2012 so my rage now is still high, but I've had awhile to simmer down about it (thankfully or I would have been yelling about Obama and Hillary in the theater until I was removed).  That said, the movie was still really hard to watch and not get upset about.  There were a few moments in the film that ease the tension when one of the character's says something funny, but just know it's a really heavy film.  

I don't know why we haven't been able to pinpoint the break down in the chain of command that obviously happened. However, if I had to guess I'd say that the CIA wasn't just removing weapons off the black market, but rather sending them to Syrian rebels.  My ignorant in the dark opinion is that something big and covert was going down that not even Republicans in the Congress at the end of the day want to see the light of day and so Hillary and Obama are going to get a pass. I hope I'm wrong.

What I will never understand is how Obama can be in a tux at the White House Press Dinner during any of that.  I don't understand how any administration that is otherwise so cautious at revealing anything would so quickly release a false conclusion as to why the attack happened? I mean only when I view it in the light of it being an event that happened very close to the Presidential election does it make any sense that the White House would be so quick to put out the bad information that they did whether it was intentional lying or not.

One of the tragedies is that Ambassador Stevens appears to have deeply believed in the mission to help Libya and the people who sent him on that mission were quick to abandon it after his death.  Now Libya is a failed state and a haven for terrorists and one huge criminal black market for weapons that will find their way to being used against our citizens and our allies at some point.  A complete and total failure diplomatically and politically yet somehow the President and Hillary are immune from it all.  

I don't know how the President and Hillary sleep at night.  Any human being with basic feelings would be haunted by that the rest of their lives.  

God bless those brave men who lost their lives and those who lived through that tragedy.  

bunch of faggots

Powerful movie.  Didn't realize how fubared things were. Everybody should go see it

I also believe that once Ghaddafi was removed the Administration was in a full court press to support the "Arab Spring".   State was working closely with the WH to ensure the right players would become heads of state and replace the dictators and then they would ensure peace and happiness throughout the Arab states.

Syria was clearly in the cross hairs of current regime and after the fall of Libya an enormous cache of weapons was available to arm the rebels opposed to Assad.

As everything else managed by these wizards the whole scheme has turned into a gigantic cluster fuck.

Stevens, Woods, Doherty, and Smith were all sacrificed because of one man's grand vision of the new Arab State.

Excellent flick. I'll see it again this week. Fuck HRC and BHO. I'm still pissed off from watching it last night.

Obama disappeared for 12 hours during the attack. He was briefed at the beginning and then hid, unreachable, while it occurred.

May everlasting fuck be upon that coward.

Just back from it.  Walked out int the lobby into twenty or so Moslems.  Made my pissed mood even worse.  I had a buddy in college that was a seal.  Six foot rangy bordering on scrawny with a scary intensity.  Looked nothing like the stereotype.

I never realized just how many different little factions with different alliances were involved.

Good movie that I believe will, unfortunately, have no impact on anything at all.

Hey, when he needs his "Reggie Time" he gets his Reggie Time.  

Date night is date night.

One of my RIs in RIP back in the late 80s.  SFC Kelly.  Horned rimmed glasses....arms like wet noodles.  I could hardly lift that man's ruck.  What looks Poindexter....ain't always so.  That man was stone tough and stone crazy...but did he look it?  Nope.
 

You assume the people in charge want stability in that part of the world. I think they wanted the instability and caused it because they want the current refugee crisis. I can't quite put my finger on their end game but I'm sure this instability in that part of the world and the refugee crisis is a major part of their plan.

This arab spring nonsense just doesn't add up. For Obama's entire life he has railed against American imperialism yet the first thing he does when he gets in office is start fucking around in North Africa and doing exactly what he spent a lifetime protesting. It just doesn't make any sense.

Watch 2016: Obama's America and it'll make more sense.