at least they got to go home safely

If there are any soviet agents stirring up hate for our government, it's the soviet agents running our government.

If some kids ran out of the classroom and were gunned down in the hallway by the police, I sure hope people would be questioning it.

Someone is shooting at you. Someone was shooting at you for the last 30 minutes. Someone shot your co-worker. A person wearing tactical gear then exits the vehicle and charges you. Shoot?

Justified? Maybe- we will have to wait and see for the actual evidence
Excusable? Yes- unless there is something weird shown in the video

Bitching about a kid catching a bullet fired by the police?
Absolutely, and rightly so.
Police have armor and training… at least in theory.
Instead it usually becomes a “mad minute” straight outta Vietnam.  Sometimes shit happens, but “spray and pray” is not acceptable.

SVR or FSB, Vlad ?

Maybe there’s just a whole gaggle of new Americans in this thread who don’t feel our heritage.
Jeez

Charges you, or runs to you for safety?

I would hope that a highly trained LE person could determine a person's armed or unarmed status in a heartbeat or two. IMO, "unarmed", regardless of "tactical gear", would definitely be a "no shoot" situation.

Excusable NO!

Police or not, you own every bullet you fire until it stops moving, and you own everything it hurts or damages between the muzzle and the time it is at rest.  People who carry weapons as part of their profession should be held to a HIGHER standard than Joe Pistol Packer.

Dude where have you been.  This is how the fucking cops are trained.  Job #1 above ALL ELSE is I AM GOING HOME, THEY CAN GET FUCKED.  Don't think, action beats reaction, yadda yadda.  See trigger, pull trigger.  Thinking.........is optional.

Can't say what I would have done without being there myself or seeing a good video at a minimum.

I will hold any judgements until I see more evidence...  Its to easy to make the wrong judgement call on the officers involved.

Situation is grim either way.

They did ID the threat.  It was clearly a right wing domestic terrorist as evidenced by the plate carrier she was wearing.  It's right on the Homeland Security flyer.  And, it was coming right at them.

Patiently waiting for bodycam footage

https://www.vvng.com/amber-alert-murder-suspect-shot-and-killed-after-a-shootout-with-police-on-sb-i-15-in-hesperia/

Didn't NY ban plates?

When asked by a reporter if the person wearing the tactical gear had a weapon, the sheriff replied and said “at this time I don’t have that information I’m not sure were still reviewing the entire scene.”

Interesting statement.

One would think they would have been rather quick to confirm if she did in fact have a weapon.

The only training they seem to get around here is how to profile nice enough cars to pull over so that they stand a good chance of getting someone without warrants who will just blindly pay the ticket while ignoring all the Altima's with paper tags that expired a year ago and obvious safety equipment violations.

Maybe newly minted IRS?

They be an LEO too yo.

I miss NorCal.

Blue line gang.

Video from overpass above shooting.

Dads fault.

Concealed Target identification in the heat of battle is difficult.  

I’m all for forgiveness for real and difficult situational mistakes which I suspect this was.

However, police should be held to at least the same standard as I am, whatever that may be in this case.  

Shitty situation all around.  I really feel for the girl and her family.

And what if dad, who had just killed her mom, said "shoot at the cop car or I'll fucking shoot YOU TOO".  Then what?  At the end of the day, if that girl bailed out of the car and ran toward the cops with empty hands, then there is no excuse.  NONE.

Get the fuck out of here with that shit.  I've been a cop critic since Glasnost.  Shut the fuck up!

This is the first thing I've seen you post that makes any sense.  

Do they have a weapon?  Is it pointed at you or coming up toward you?  

This is like flowchart 101.  If = yes, then shoot.  If = no, then no shoot.

Was she dressed in brown clothes?

Did the cops all make it home?

And how can you tell the difference between "charging you" and "running to you for safety"?

I think the moral of the story is that, if you want to live a long and happy life without being shot, we just need to stay the fuck away from both criminals and cops, and hope a hostage situation doesn't randomly find us on the street somewhere.  

It would appear that, at any situation with more than two cops with sirens left on = somebody is getting dead unless the subject does EVERYTHING EXACTLY RIGHT.  And then, maybe STILL dead.

By what they have in their hands. Or not.

I like how they, in particular, tried to murder the person sitting on the passenger side of the truck with the most number of shots aimed at the passenger’s head.

Was she armed when she exited the vehicle and was shot by police?  The “may have shot at police” sounds like a bullshit ex post facto justification for a police fuckup in killing a kidnap victim.

Isn't a weapon in hand, or not, the primary indicator of which it might be?

I think one of the problems here is the institutional assumption that "they are all bad guys".  WE are all "bad guys".  

That answer is “no she didn’t have a weapon but we want to make it seem like she might have to clamp down on the outrage over the police killing a kidnapping victim until some other news event distracts them from our incompetence.”

Considering they were quick to confirm that there was an AR-15 style rifle in the truck, but they're "not sure" if the girl was armed, that certainly leads to some speculation.

Based on the number of gunshots, I bet the kidnapping victim got lit the fuck up by police and followed up with some anchor shots just to be sure.

If she drowns, she’s innocent, if she floats, she’s a witch and we burn her.  Or, kill them all, God will know his own.

What’s the chuckle for?

You’re saying that DoD follows more stringent rules for the use of force than civilian law enforcement?

You do recognize how that is an issue, right?

I was under the impression that the police have a duty to try and take subjects into custody alive if it is at all possible, EVEN IF THEY HAVE SHOT AT THE POLICE at some point.

It seems like the Police have abandoned that.

Now if you fire a shot, or in some cases just have a gun IN YOUR hand, or even just reach to PULL UP YOUR PANTS, you are gonna die in a hail of bullets fired by a mob of shit-scared folks that couldn't get hired anywhere else, who have been beaten over the head since they hired on with "you are a hero", "citizens are the enemy" and "you act quickly and decisively with deadly force and MAKE SURE that YOU are the one who gets to go home at the end of the interaction".  Is it any wonder we wind up with these?

Reminiscent of:

Attached File

You can't possibly be serious. Jesus, no wonder the cops did nothing.

I have to say…I am dumber for reading this post.   He is lowering the collective IQ of Arfcom by 20 point himself.

don't worry, the police will investigate themselves and find no wrong doing.

Smile and wave policing can't come soon enough.

Another article

UPDATE @ 4:30 PM — During a 4:00 pm, press conference San Bernardino County Sheriff Shannon Dicus said Barstow deputies were dispatched to the area of Highway 395 and Highway 58 where the vehicle was seen. Arriving deputies encountered the suspect vehicle and a pursuit ensued. The suspect shot at deputies putting several rounds through the windshield of the patrol unit. The pursuit continued onto Highway 58 before entering the I-15 freeway, in the Lenwood area.

Officials said the suspect was firing at the deputies the entire time and even caused the second pursuing deputies vehicle to become disabled. The pursuit continued towards Victorville/Hesperia with the deputies taking fire from the suspect. The suspect went off-road as they approached the southwest corner of Main Street and the I-15. Deputies from several jurisdictions involved in the pursuit attempted to contain the suspect in the triangle that’s made by the offramp, the I-15, and the Main Street bridge.



Authorities said after the suspect vehicle came to rest a subject exited the passenger side of the vehicle wearing tactical gear. That subject started to run toward sheriff’s deputies and went down during the gunfire. As the deputies cleared the vehicle and rendered medical aid, they made contact with the subject wearing the tactical gear and determined it was the 15-year-old Juvenile. Graciano was shot dead in the driver’s seat of the car. Savannah was transported to a local hospital and at 11:52 am, she was pronounced deceased.

Sheriff’s officials said preliminary information indicates that the passenger of the vehicle identified as Savannah may have been also involved in some of the fire exchange. “There may be some information that the passenger was involved in firing back at the deputies and were still trying to confirm that at this point. “It is so early in this investigation. This is highly complex, it covers as you can imagine a number of miles coming out of Highway 58 and 395. All the way from the Barstow area coming back here. Very substantial investigation. Multiple scenes in terms of where these shootings occurred and ultimately ended up back here,” stated Sheriff Dicus.


Officials said a weapon described as an AR rifle was found inside the truck. When asked by a reporter if the person wearing the tactical gear had a weapon, the sheriff replied and said “at this time I don’t have that information I’m not sure were still reviewing the entire scene.” The sheriff also confirmed multiple patrol units were struck by gunfire and one deputy struck by shrapnel suffered minor injuries.

The sheriff said they will need at least 24 hours before additional information is released.

—original article—

HESPERIA, Calif. (VVNG.com) — A suspect wanted in a fatal Amber Alert was killed during a shootout with law enforcement Tuesday in Hesperia.

It happened at about 11:08 am, on September 27, 2022, on the southbound I-15 freeway and the Main Street on-ramp.


The San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department tweeted around 11:23 a.m. that there was heavy police activity in Victorville on the 15 Freeway, between Bear Valley Rd and Joshua Rd. and that residents should avoid the area.


(Anthony Graizano, 45)
According to initial reports, a 911 caller reported a white truck matching the description of the suspect’s 2017 Nissan Frontier that was last seen driving on the I-15 freeway in Barstow. The suspect allegedly shot at responding deputies from the rearview window of the truck near Restaurant Row in Victorville and continued driving on the freeway.

The truck exited on Main Street where it went over the shoulder of the I-15 on-ramp and became disabled. Seconds later a gunbattle occurred and during the shootout, the suspect was shot and killed.

The 15-year-old victim identified as Savannah Graziano was also inside the truck and was wounded during the shootout. She was airlifted to a trauma center with life-threatening injuries.


(Savannah Graziano)
The Fontana Police Department has confirmed that the person involved in the pursuit and shooting in Hesperia is the same murder suspect from the Amber Alert.

Anthony was wanted for the murder of Savanna’s mom after he shot and killed her near an elementary school on Cypress Avenue and Mallory Drive on September 26, 2022. He fled the scene with his daughter prompting the Amber Alert.

The investigation has prompted the California Highway Patrol to close the southbound I-15 freeway for an unknown amount of time. All traffic is being detoured onto Main Street. Roadways like Highway 395, Mariposa Road, and Amargosa Road are gridlocked.


(suspects truck)
The investigation is very active and ongoing. A press conference is scheduled for 3:00 pm where law enforcement is expected to release more information.


(Hugo C. Valdez, VVNG.com)

(Hugo C. Valdez, VVNG.com)

Do not run away from the police when they are pointing guns at you.
Do not stay in the target area/beaten zone when the police are shooting guns at you.

So what should she have done?

I can’t believe that you think shooting kids who are hostages or innocent bystanders is acceptable.

Hey, we’re so bad at marksmanship, even at close range, that everyone just has to accept that we’re going to kill some kids /innocent bystanders.  Holy crap, it’s not like these bad guys were actually even holding a hostage in front of themselves as a human shield.

This sis where my thoughts are.

Wait... what age can you shoot someone?