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Posted: 1/23/2024 12:42:09 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Specs have nothing to do with why the garmin is better. I own both and have used them a lot. Want to guess how many shots the garmin has dropped? Want to guess how many times the app got disconnected? The LR is an absolute klunge to set up/use at the range, especially on a small(ish) bench, The Garmin OTH…easy peasy. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 12:58:48 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Specs have nothing to do with why the garmin is better. I own both and have used them a lot. Want to guess how many shots the garmin has dropped? Want to guess how many times the app got disconnected? He can't accept it. He's here pumping a product that doesn't yet exist, that has a feature useless for 90% of shooters, from a company who has a shit reputation for their product functioning as advertised. Sorry buddy. The ship has sailed and the long range shooting community won't be coming back. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 12:59:59 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Labradar displays both a muzzle velocity and several downrange velocities for every shot. Like this: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/47056/6B462DC7-E24B-489C-8DAF-079B5EED47BC-3103868.png (Do note that the 150-yard reading is obviously wrong….it’s a useful feature, not a perfect feature) But I thought it was accurate enough for you to true up your BC's with? 
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Posted: 1/23/2024 1:15:20 AM EST
[#4]
I have a LR and a Garmin Xero. I use other Garmin products every day. I have no further interest in LR products, one was enough.
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Posted: 1/23/2024 1:47:09 AM EST
[#5]
I have been less than impressed with my LabRadar. It misses shots, even when carefully following all instructions. I even bought a magnetic remote trigger, and it still misses shots. If it misses any shots, that makes it useless. A friend just ordered a Garmin. If he likes it, I will get one.
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Posted: 1/23/2024 1:51:17 AM EST
[#6]
4 pages of bickering. Who'd have imagined a chrono would be so controversial?
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Posted: 1/23/2024 7:12:48 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 4 pages of bickering. Who'd have imagined a chrono would be so controversial? wHo'D hAvE iMaGiNeD a cHrOnO wOuLd bE sO cOnTrOvErSiAl?  Just kidding. We can argue to the point of insult about anything in GD. Exhibit A: *waves hand at this thread* |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 7:13:45 AM EST
[#8]
Doesn't hang off the end of your barrel and effect harmonics
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Posted: 1/23/2024 7:29:20 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just read that snipers hide thread, all 5+ pages Brutal but seems to be honest feedback for LR even the person that leaked the info/photos mentioned his ability to get repairs/replacement done, despite the broken english. made in "north america" means made or assembled in canada in this case. Thats cool but with such a limited distribution network (one or two people, a "garage in kansas" as referred to on SH) doesn't seem great. It reminds me of Justin Belfort in Wolf of Wall street dialing for dollars on penny stocks, that radar company Aerotyne Industries  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJzo5TDfamkGo read the Accurate Shooter thread. Labradar was the go to 8 years ago even with all the problems glitches missed shots extra shots ect it was as good as it gets now they got caught with their pants down. I've used LR, FX and AndiScan and like the Garmin better than any of them. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 7:45:48 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol, what a shit show. LOL, it works. Easier to do than tell about it. Side by side comparison for accuracy with my CE, they're the same and the CE was as accurate as the Oehler 35 which I used prior. Much easier to set up than my Competition Electronics Chrono which is FAR easier to setup than the Oehler 35P LOL. The standard two-skyscreen setup is bad enough to set up and align, the three screen setup on TWO tripods is just stupid because EVERYTHING clamps together. If all I need to do is get a read on the latest load, because I don't have to wait for a downrange break, I can be on and off the range in twenty minutes an an indoor range that's 20 minutes away versus the outdoor place that's almost an hour plus, waiting on all the other goofs to get back from 300 yards every break which they do regularly that turns a 20 minute quickie range session into two hours waiting on Cleetus & Fred Fudd to move their asses. Plus drivetime. Some of us don't have a range off the back porch and have to make do..... |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:00:34 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn’t want to hurt his feelings too bad but yeah it’s not the best. ETA: I can’t think of any semi competent shooter telling us trust the LR BC calculations vs something like a kestrel Feelings? The thing spits out errors every now and then. Semi-intelligent people learn to deal with this. Neanderthals slam their clubs on the ground and demand a product with less features so less can go wrong. I swear, I read the replies here and can only conclude y’all just eat crayons and are intimidated by anything more complex than an etch a sketch. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:05:54 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The thing spits out errors every now and then. Semi-intelligent people learn to deal with this. That’s what we’re saying….get the Garmin; best way to deal with it. The issue simply goes away. LR missed the boat by not dropping a teaser of their new product before the Garmin dropped. Now too many ppl have seen how easy and consistent the Garmin is to use. It’s hard to keep unhappy customers when they’ve seen a better alternative. It’s just another example of poor planning/execution by LR. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:14:34 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For folks wanting BC of muzzleloaders - a case that you must admit is very rare in the marketplace of shooters - perhaps it's not the best. But for usability, accuracy, packability, and everything else the majority of users care about? It's not even a competition. It’s not just muzzleloader. There’s a whole world out there if people who shoot .22s and cast rifle bullets and shoot smokeless muzzleloader who don’t have published BCs to go by. And then there are boutique makers who will give coarse BC estimates (ex: I have bullets in my barn that I shoot regularly where the maker offers maybe 3 weights in one caliber. There’s a guesstimated bc on the website, but no mention of which weight it applies to. He’s a one man shop too busy making bullets to go generate data…..and he’s selling them to people shooting barrels ranging from 1-14 twist all the way to 1-32. You’re darned right I’m better off figuring my own bc, even though I have to do so knowing full well to expect some variation and inaccuracy in the calculations. My estimates get me on paper at longer ranges. That’s important to me when I’m shootings in the summertime and hot barrels cause sabot problems so I can only shoot a very few shots per day. I can’t just blast away and walk them in). Same goes for cast bullets. And as BR pointed out, boutique all-copper bullet makers have the same issue. People seem to be angry that there are people that want/need the downrange feature. None of us are angry that you can use data on your ammo box and make hits. We’ve done it too. I’ve very successfully walked onto bullseyes with neither velocity nor bc data before. I don’t own stock in Labradar. I own one device of theirs. It is *worlds* better than the device it replaced (a 1996 vintage shooting chrony). It serves me well. The anger at this baffles me. You hate the company - for reasons that to your credit you’ve articulated well - but you seem to also hate me for not sharing that hate. *shrug* Not sure what else to say. I hope your Garmin lasts twenty years. I hope competition eventually drives them into the $300 price range. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:16:43 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This and as someone else said, too little too late. The LR is an absolute klunge to set up/use at the range, especially on a small(ish) bench, Right as usual, sir:  Blazing Saddles - These Things are Defective |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:17:53 AM EST
[#15]
I’d even settle for a $450 price range for the Garmin…
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:18:31 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He can't accept it. He's here pumping a product that doesn't yet exist, that has a feature useless for 90% of shooters, from a company who has a shit reputation for their product functioning as advertised. Sorry buddy. The ship has sailed and the long range shooting community won't be coming back. Pumping a product? Lol. But I’m glad to see my use case has increased from 0.01% to 10% now. That’s more realistic. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:19:10 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But I thought it was accurate enough for you to true up your BC's with? Does it anger you to know that there are people in the world that can glance at that series of numbers and know which one to reject? Because that is exactly the vibe you’re giving off here. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:21:58 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LR missed the boat by not dropping a teaser of their new product before the Garmin dropped. Now too many ppl have seen how easy and consistent the Garmin is to use. It’s hard to keep unhappy customers when they’ve seen a better alternative. It’s just another example of poor planning/execution by LR. The thing is, I don’t disagree with you here. But after it’s been hashed out 10,000 times, when they actually do, allegedly, have a new product, would it make more sense to discuss what we have already discussed 10,000 times, or to actually give more than a five second glance to the new product? Reason ain’t y’all’s strong point. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:22:29 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL, it works. Easier to do than tell about it. Side by side comparison for accuracy with my CE, they're the same and the CE was as accurate as the Oehler 35 which I used prior. Much easier to set up than my Competition Electronics Chrono which is FAR easier to setup than the Oehler 35P LOL. The standard two-skyscreen setup is bad enough to set up and align, the three screen setup on TWO tripods is just stupid because EVERYTHING clamps together. If all I need to do is get a read on the latest load, because I don't have to wait for a downrange break, I can be on and off the range in twenty minutes an an indoor range that's 20 minutes away versus the outdoor place that's almost an hour plus, waiting on all the other goofs to get back from 300 yards every break which they do regularly that turns a 20 minute quickie range session into two hours waiting on Cleetus & Fred Fudd to move their asses. Plus drivetime. Some of us don't have a range off the back porch and have to make do..... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lol, what a shit show. LOL, it works. Easier to do than tell about it. Side by side comparison for accuracy with my CE, they're the same and the CE was as accurate as the Oehler 35 which I used prior. Much easier to set up than my Competition Electronics Chrono which is FAR easier to setup than the Oehler 35P LOL. The standard two-skyscreen setup is bad enough to set up and align, the three screen setup on TWO tripods is just stupid because EVERYTHING clamps together. If all I need to do is get a read on the latest load, because I don't have to wait for a downrange break, I can be on and off the range in twenty minutes an an indoor range that's 20 minutes away versus the outdoor place that's almost an hour plus, waiting on all the other goofs to get back from 300 yards every break which they do regularly that turns a 20 minute quickie range session into two hours waiting on Cleetus & Fred Fudd to move their asses. Plus drivetime. Some of us don't have a range off the back porch and have to make do..... The part I’m laughing at is you said “this” to a guy who isn’t replacing his LR “because it works” then you spend a whole paragraph talking about all the shitty quirks and work arounds you need to get it to work. A book of sticky notes to help you understand the controls and having to manually filter out other shooters shots isn’t making a strong case for the LR I think everyone agrees even the LR is better than an optical chronograph but nobody is making that comparison but you. If you compare it to the Garmin it has no competitive advantages beyond down range velocity, which doesn’t measure down range far enough to matter to any center fire rifle shooter and it appears it doesn’t work reliably for the tiny portion of shooters who could actually find that info useful. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:47:41 AM EST
[#20]
Quoted: Feelings? The thing spits out errors every now and then. Semi-intelligent people learn to deal with this. Neanderthals slam their clubs on the ground and demand a product with less features so less can go wrong. I swear, I read the replies here and can only conclude y’all just eat crayons and are intimidated by anything more complex than an etch a sketch. The thing is, I don’t disagree with you here. But after it’s been hashed out 10,000 times, when they actually do, allegedly, have a new product, would it make more sense to discuss what we have already discussed 10,000 times, or to actually give more than a five second glance to the new product? Reason ain’t y’all’s strong point. Dude, the only one who seems angry and is throwing around personal insults in this thread would be you. You seem to want to call into question anyone whose viewpoint doesn't align with yours 100%. LR was the king of the hill until Garmin came along and pushed in their shit in a rather convincing fashion. Now they're a distant second and most aren't even considering them because they have a well earned reputation of glitchy products and dismal support. Whatever the future of that company is, and it doesn't look good- they earned it. Signed, A LR owner with no intention of purchasing a Garmin |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:50:10 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dude, the only one who seems angry and is throwing around personal insults in this thread would be you. You seem to want to call into question anyone whose viewpoint doesn't align with yours 100%. LR was the king of the hill until Garmin came along and pushed in their shit in a rather convincing fashion. Now they're a distant second and most aren't even considering them because they have a well earned reputation of glitchy products and dismal support. Whatever the future of that company is, and it doesn't look good- they earned it. Signed, A LR owner with no intention of purchasing a Garmin Very well said. Same boat. No intention on replacing my LR proactively. But when it dies...it's not getting replaced with another LR. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:53:58 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The thing is, I don’t disagree with you here. But after it’s been hashed out 10,000 times, when they actually do, allegedly, have a new product, would it make more sense to discuss what we have already discussed 10,000 times, or to actually give more than a five second glance to the new product? Reason ain’t y’all’s strong point. At the same price, no, it doesn’t deserve even 5 seconds to review. But, to your point, what does it do as good or better than the Garmin?? I haven’t seen anything except a feature that doesn’t matter and would have limited use. Will it also struggle with rimfire shots like the original LR? Is that one of its selling features? Hey, you do you. Good luck getting product support for the LR in 2-3yrs. They’ll likely go bust based on their current business model/plans. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:54:24 AM EST
[#23]
Too late. Got my Garmin.
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Posted: 1/23/2024 9:18:22 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Link to case, please? My new Garmin will be here Thursday.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Interesting. I think it's good that there is competition and i'm sure labradar had their "oh shit" moment when garmin released their new one. With software/app updates im sure each will have something over the other one. My only complaint with the garmin is for $600 bucks they could have included a case, but that was easily solved with $7 on amazon. A case makes it easy to keep it in the range bag. https://i.imgur.com/x58aTav.jpg Yes, yes, case link please. I've been using my cardboard box that my magnetospeed came in for the last 12-15yrs. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 9:20:56 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what does this thing do for $600 that my $160 magnetospeed sport doesnt do??? Well, easier set up and no issue with poi shift from hanging bayonet on barrel. Plus, you'd have to screw up bad to shoot the Garmin. I've had my strap break a few times one magnetospeed. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 9:27:41 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Saves ammo and shortens load development Not sure how. I've got an og magneto v1 that got display replaced 4 yrs ago with a v3 and then bayonet bracket broke a yr ago so its got new style sporter bayonet. I've got a Garmin inbound from euro optic. I've had zero issue working up loads, if it shot good with magneto on barrel/it shot as good without it on. I do see a slight<1.5moa poi shift when its on the barrel, usually shifts up about 1". I actually like that, as it keeps aiming point from being shot out, just like a br target. The only extra ammo required is after load work is done and scope needs zeroed precisely.....3rds later that's done, lol. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 9:29:52 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s absurd. I can’t imagine paying more than $100 for a magnetospeed. If you want to argue that the new Garmin is better than a Labradar, that’s possible. The magnetospeed? That’s the sort of dumb thing you’d say if the Labradar people had kicked your cat. At no point in its history did the MS ever appeal to me. Not ever. I’d rather go to the range and borrow their loaner chronographs. Go away and let the adults talk here. Hey man, I wasn't against you till the magneto comment, that's retarded. There's several big shooting complexes that ditched their labradars and went back to magnetospeed, because of labradars fragility and issues. Let's not get carried overboard here with product worship. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 9:42:24 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I used my LR today. Turned it on, spent maybe 10 seconds aiming/arming it, shot 6 shots, got a reading for all six. Turned it off. Didn’t miss anything. Eta: Also, I’m not criticizing the Garmin. In other threads about it I haven’t said a bad word. Lucky you. Fairly certain mine is defective. I did email them yesterday (this thread prompted me to) for an RMA. We'll see what they say. Regardless: the app blows - it constantly disconnects (yes, I'm on latest firmware 2.0); the hardware RARELY records a shot via magnetic external trigger or otherwise. Very salty over purchase - mine has been hot garbage. We'll see if they make it right. Others seem fine with theirs (you included OP), so you can take mine as 1 out of n, maybe an outlier, but it is still piece of shit. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 10:05:37 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see OP hasn’t answered my questions. I have also noticed when using my LR if I change the angle or distance from the muzzle the down range velocity changes a lot. When moving the garmin from the muzzle to over a foot behind it there is less than one fps difference. He is so proud of the BC calculator but I doubt it accurate. Now I am super glad I got a LR a long time ago and it was worth every penny but it’s not the best choice in todays market. Thats the thing on the bc calculator at 100yds. If it's not dead nuts exact, that short of a range will really cause a misinterpretation of bc. As I've said earlier, get hard MV data and use bullet co bc and shoot to your max distance with predicted drop. See where impact is and true up bc with actual. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 10:09:34 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Labradar couldn't perfect their one product. That's why people are reluctant - even to the point of outright disdain towards the company and their product - to want to continue to support them. The Garmin is simply far and away the better unit for the majority of the marketplace. For folks wanting BC of muzzleloaders - a case that you must admit is very rare in the marketplace of shooters - perhaps it's not the best. But for usability, accuracy, packability, and everything else the majority of users care about? It's not even a competition. Yeah. How hard would it be to get hard mv data on muzzleloader, use a ballpark bc of cast bullet to get drop for 300yds, then actually shoot it at 300yds with said drop and then measure offset from actual to predicted poi, and finally tweak bc to get predicted to jive with actual. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 10:13:49 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Feelings? The thing spits out errors every now and then. Semi-intelligent people learn to deal with this. Neanderthals slam their clubs on the ground and demand a product with less features so less can go wrong. I swear, I read the replies here and can only conclude y’all just eat crayons and are intimidated by anything more complex than an etch a sketch. I have probably helped over a dozen people set up their LR. I know how to use it very well. It is inferior to the garmin. I use my equipment enough to know the good and the bad. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 10:15:44 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could have figured out that ELD-X BC in less than 10 yds with a box of Precision Hunter ammo (assuming they offer it in what you’re shooting). I zeroed a 7mm WSM at 200 yds and then made first round hits out to 500 using the trajectory on the box. Extrapolated that data out and was shooting 700+ easily. Kudos to Hornady for not embellishing BC’s like some manufacturers. What cartridge are you shooting those Badlands bullet out of? I didn’t need to, I had already trued the BC from the ELD-X and the published BC was accurate, but I did the labradar extrapolation just as an experiment to see what it would give me and if it jived with what was published. Regardless, the labradar is a good tool to get accurate BC’s. Apparently it may only be useful to me and @arowneragain, but it is something that the Garmin doesn’t offer. I don’t know why everyone is getting up in arms and defensive about pointing that out. I also don’t shoot factory ammo and handload the ELD-X in 6.5 so why would I buy a box of factory ammo? I handload the badland bullets in my 7 SAUM and 30-06. ETA I’ve also not really had an issue with I dropping shots. It’s only really happened at a busy range when I’m shooting supressed and everyone else isn’t. As long as it’s properly set up and aligned, it’s not an issue. Just have to get the microphone adapter. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 10:16:13 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does it anger you to know that there are people in the world that can glance at that series of numbers and know which one to reject? Because that is exactly the vibe you’re giving off here. Yeah, but if one is erroneous, it really cast some doubt on other distances accuracy. Figuring bc for a 1200yd rifle off of some maybe dubious 50yd/100yd velocity measurements is gonna cause some wild shit downrange in bc calculating. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 10:20:56 AM EST
[#34]
If you enjoy the Labradar experience, you don’t use it very often.
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Posted: 1/23/2024 10:24:08 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you enjoy the Labradar experience, you don’t use it very often. I use it every time I shoot, which is fairly often on my back porch. I can do load development on my porch, upload the data here then head to the place I shoot long range and make 1000yard hits based off the data. It works for me, user experiences may vary. ETA maybe it works for me because I’ve used it enough to figure out its nuances. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 10:32:08 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does it anger you to know that there are people in the world that can glance at that series of numbers and know which one to reject? Because that is exactly the vibe you’re giving off here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But I thought it was accurate enough for you to true up your BC's with? Does it anger you to know that there are people in the world that can glance at that series of numbers and know which one to reject? Because that is exactly the vibe you’re giving off here. You don’t know which ones to reject. You know which one is “obviously wrong” but you have no idea if the others are less obviously wrong. Who’s to say V100 isn’t 200fps off? The only way you can know is to shoot at distance and verify, the exact same thing you’d do with just the MV. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 10:47:03 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don’t know which ones to reject. You know which one is “obviously wrong” but you have no idea if the others are less obviously wrong. Who’s to say V100 isn’t 200fps off? The only way you can know is to shoot at distance and verify, the exact same thing you’d do with just the MV. https://bc.geladen.ch/labrabaco/labrabaco.html Using the above website it will automatically reject outliers. Per my experience, as long as you have sufficient data (20 or more shots) and your environmental data is accurate, the extrapolated BC is very accurate. Does it mean you shouldn’t true at distance? No. But every time trued I didn’t have to make any adjustments to BC. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 11:20:47 AM EST
[#38]
I really wanted to like the LabRadar.
When it works it gives me information I can use. But it is quirky at best, and the app is extremely unreliable. I have had to purchase the inertial trigger to make it halfway usable, and then I have to deal with false readings from the bolt closure. I am not going to quit using the Lab radar, while waiting to see if there is a revision to the Garmin. I wouldn't consider the new LabRadar for a couple of years. I wish I could count on LabRadar to get it right, but their track record with the current units and app doesn't inspire much confidence. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 11:47:25 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://bc.geladen.ch/labrabaco/labrabaco.html Using the above website it will automatically reject outliers. Per my experience, as long as you have sufficient data (20 or more shots) and your environmental data is accurate, the extrapolated BC is very accurate. Does it mean you shouldn’t true at distance? No. But every time trued I didn’t have to make any adjustments to BC. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You don’t know which ones to reject. You know which one is “obviously wrong” but you have no idea if the others are less obviously wrong. Who’s to say V100 isn’t 200fps off? The only way you can know is to shoot at distance and verify, the exact same thing you’d do with just the MV. https://bc.geladen.ch/labrabaco/labrabaco.html Using the above website it will automatically reject outliers. Per my experience, as long as you have sufficient data (20 or more shots) and your environmental data is accurate, the extrapolated BC is very accurate. Does it mean you shouldn’t true at distance? No. But every time trued I didn’t have to make any adjustments to BC. I'm glad you had that experience. I very much did not. And even got called out by Molon once for posting some of the bad LR BC data once. Yes, In my experience LabRadar was AWESOME! And of course was cock-of-the-walk at the range, strutting around with my amazing Teknawledjy and then the guy must have died or something. The nuances were complete acceptable in 2018 for such a game changer. They were easily fixable with time. LR essentially never did. I had to open up and fix my fragile unit more times than I can count, including buying replacement ribbon off of Ebay. Took them years to come out with an App at all, and it's always been shit, because they never could get BT connection to work reliably. I can get $10 earbuds to do better. The Garmin speed to recording of track is orders of magnitude faster. Meanwhile, You can easily outpace a LabRadar with a single shot rifle. As to missed tracks - the fact everyone had to buy additional random crap for the unit to even know a shot was fired, tells you all you need to know. Compared to the Garmin experience - it's just Wow! As someone with many thousands of tracks on a LabRadar - you served me well for a first gen near prototype production unit. Now the pro's are making such devices as a consumer product, so... don't miss ya! It's still just as good as it was, so if younwant a range session and feel setting up the lab Radar, there you go - you will get good data still in any light and any weather (well. Unless it's windy). Use it if ya love it. But this thread gushing over the LR is just silly - nobody is advised to buy one today over a Garmin. Not unless they price the new unit at $300 - THEN we are talking. They won't. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 12:12:15 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don’t know which ones to reject. You know which one is “obviously wrong” but you have no idea if the others are less obviously wrong. Who’s to say V100 isn’t 200fps off? The only way you can know is to shoot at distance and verify, the exact same thing you’d do with just the MV. But I *do* know. I reject the one that occurred past my 100 yard berm. Because I know - because I can read - that anything within the beam can cause errors. And my 100-yard berm is often in the beam. My 100 yard berm sits slightly but directly below my 225 yard berm. I learned early on that 1) I have to account for this if I want data past 100 yards, but 2) I can ignore it when I do not. It’s not a problem. You just want it to be. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 12:19:48 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Feelings? The thing spits out errors every now and then. Semi-intelligent people learn to deal with this. Neanderthals slam their clubs on the ground and demand a product with less features so less can go wrong. I swear, I read the replies here and can only conclude y’all just eat crayons and are intimidated by anything more complex than an etch a sketch. Heh. You're talking about device used to gather statistically valid data. "Spits out errors every now and then" with no ability to discern those errors other than the users judgement is a valid problem. It's the reason I switched from the Shooting Chrony we both started with, because it would give me different data depending on how the sun shined that day. If you occasionally get a complete miss, that's easy to discern. If you get a wild variation like 2100 FPS when the expectation was 2800 FPS, that's easy to discern, but impacts confidence in the readings. How can you tell when that 100 FPS or 50 FPS variation were errors? Acting like the random reporting of erroneous data is no big deal is like thinking hooking voting machines up to the internet is no big deal. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 12:22:40 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After what Garmin released, they'd better do something, and quick.  My Garmin Xero C1 Pro is awesome, the Labradar and MagnetoSpeed are history with the release of the Xero. Just ordered a Xero C1 this morning. I needed a Chrono for pistol and rifle. I've used CompElec and Magneto Speed. CE works but you need well lit range and the ability to go past firing line. It's huge and bulky. MS is a PITA to set up, and forget about doing multiple rifles or pistol in one session. Garmin just fit the bill. Didn't love the price but if it makes Chronoing everything I need easy, it will be more then worth it. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 12:22:52 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The thing is, I don’t disagree with you here. But after it’s been hashed out 10,000 times, when they actually do, allegedly, have a new product, would it make more sense to discuss what we have already discussed 10,000 times, or to actually give more than a five second glance to the new product? Reason ain’t y’all’s strong point. Reason? Who has any reason to think LR's new product won't be as much of a shitshow as their last one? It's their only product line. It's not like their attention is diverted across multiple products. If you can't get your flagship product right over it's 10 year life, why should anyone give you another $500+ and hope your next product works to expectations? |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 12:26:44 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Heh. You're talking about device used to gather statistically valid data. "Spits out errors every now and then" with no ability to discern those errors other than the users judgement is a valid problem. But it's not a problem. See my post above - it's an error *I KNEW* about. I know why it happens, I can go recreate it right now - or I can go avoid it right now. I took that picture last summer, for reasons that escape me now, but I sure as heck didn't take it for this thread. I wasn't trying to show an error, wasn't trying to hide an error. I often shoot at both 100 yards and 225 yards without moving the device. Sometimes I want downrange data, sometimes I only want MV, and sometimes I'll set the thing up and simply leave it running while I shoot with no real thought for what the downrange data looks like. If I *WANT* downrange data, I take 10 seconds and aim the thing at my 225-yard berm. If I simply want a MV, sometimes I'll shoot at 100 yards for a string then fire a single shot at 225 yards just for fun, or perhaps I've been shooting Gun X and also want to throw a single shot downrange to confirm zero on Gun Y. The point, I suppose, is that *I* know that, and you do not - but you didn't need to. I didn't choose that reading because it had an error, I simply chose it because it demonstrated the concept of downrange readings to someone who didn't know what we were talking about. You guys are quite literally making a mountain out of a nonexistent molehill. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 12:28:25 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Reason? Who has any reason to think LR's new product won't be as much of a shitshow as their last one? It's their only product line. It's not like their attention is diverted across multiple products. If you can't get your flagship product right over it's 10 year life, why should anyone give you another $500+ and hope your next product works to expectations? Honestly, I don't think it's their flagship product. Or maybe it's Labradar's flagship product but the Labradar brand is owned by a parent company who treats the product as a stepchild of sorts. Is that a problem? Yes, I absolutely agree that it's a problem. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 12:30:15 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm glad you had that experience. I very much did not. And even got called out by Molon once for posting some of the bad LR BC data once. Yes, In my experience LabRadar was AWESOME! And of course was cock-of-the-walk at the range, strutting around with my amazing Teknawledjy and then the guy must have died or something. The nuances were complete acceptable in 2018 for such a game changer. They were easily fixable with time. LR essentially never did. I had to open up and fix my fragile unit more times than I can count, including buying replacement ribbon off of Ebay. Took them years to come out with an App at all, and it's always been shit, because they never could get BT connection to work reliably. I can get $10 earbuds to do better. The Garmin speed to recording of track is orders of magnitude faster. Meanwhile, You can easily outpace a LabRadar with a single shot rifle. As to missed tracks - the fact everyone had to buy additional random crap for the unit to even know a shot was fired, tells you all you need to know. Compared to the Garmin experience - it's just Wow! As someone with many thousands of tracks on a LabRadar - you served me well for a first gen near prototype production unit. Now the pro's are making such devices as a consumer product, so... don't miss ya! It's still just as good as it was, so if younwant a range session and feel setting up the lab Radar, there you go - you will get good data still in any light and any weather (well. Unless it's windy). Use it if ya love it. But this thread gushing over the LR is just silly - nobody is advised to buy one today over a Garmin. Not unless they price the new unit at $300 - THEN we are talking. They won't. The ability to get tracks at distance makes the crappy app and poor interface worth it for me. It sounds like maybe I’m unique in how often I use the labradar to get G7 BCs however. If the Garmin had the same capability, I’d prefer it clearly, but they didn’t include that capability. I was hoping this new unit from labradar had that capability, but it doesn’t. One thing is certain, market competition is always a good thing, hopefully some new firmware updates make the labradar a bit more user friendly. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 12:32:17 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dude, the only one who seems angry and is throwing around personal insults in this thread would be you. You seem to want to call into question anyone whose viewpoint doesn't align with yours 100%. If people get angry over something that seems to be rooted in an inability to work a complex machine, but I am quite likely to find humor in it - but only after the anger becomes bigger than the inability to work the product. Which started on the very first reply of this thread. I'll continue to find humor in that, even if you don't like it. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 12:33:22 PM EST
[#48]
OP, why are you defending LR so much? I mean damn....Yeah, maybe we've been harsh on them but you seem to have an almost monetary affiliation here that requires you to adamantly defend their products even in the face of very valid and honest feedback on the product.
I'm curious how you are affiliated with LR? Employee? Paid advertiser? |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 12:36:15 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One thing is certain, market competition is always a good thing, hopefully some new firmware updates make the labradar a bit more user friendly. That was the reason I posted the thread in the first place. Shooters can look back through the last 20 years and find multiple examples of a big-name company making a product that people would buy, depsite flaws, because there was a lack of good competition. Companies don't respond to people that complain but still spend their money. They respond when the money flow is diverted to a competing product. Should it be that way? No. I'll freely admit that in a perfect world Labradar would have, should have, made improvements. But despite that, their product - heck, mine is the non-BT version and this still rings true for me - works very, very well, for what *I* do with it. I hope Garmin sells a million. I hope LR hears the fussing, separates the legit complaints from the purse-swinging, and makes a better product. *shrugs* |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 12:39:57 PM EST
[#50]
Never had a problem with labradar. The unit works fine. App works fine. Only dropped a small % of shots once when I forgot to aim it at a target. Still got >95% though.
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